Pedigree and Family - a dilemma

[TravelingGal]

Date: 3/13/2007 4:44:28 PM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 3/13/2007 3:33:44 PM
Author: TravelingGal




But we''re really talking about a different (stinky) kettle of fish here. It''s a cultural thing, and it is what it is.

I''ve read this same thing through the years on this forum. I have to ask *why* do you think it is what it is? It is just that culturally you are more direct? Is it viewed more as a business transaction? Is it just assumed that you are in love & that is just not enough - kinda like a cut to the chase - my daughter is smart enough to find someone wonderful - now just how wonderful are you? Is it a badge for bragging rights? Competition? Or, in my world, WASP''s tend to take the back door in asking all these questions & just hoping to hear the right thing?

BTW, the old maid comment is hysterical.

Good luck with the meeting Digndive. At the end of the day, you are who you are. I suppose if you do not give the ''correct'' answers, you could talk positively about other ''correct'' answers. For example - you could say - I researched all the universities & the one I attended has the best return on investment (i.e. higher salaries vs. student loan debt). Making it more of *the* correct choice - silly them.

Or is that just not going to fly?

Good question, F&I. I have often wondered what the answer is myself, and I''ve come to the conclusion that there is no one size fits all answer. East meets west is often a complicated thing, and it is just as hard to explain eastern thought to westerners as it is explaining and making easterns understand western thoughts and customs. I go through it all the time trying to explain certain things to TGuy, but I understand that he will never "get" it completely.

One of the biggest differences in culture is that many asians are a "we" culture and don''t buy into individualism as some western cultures do. One of the examples I give is that in Korean language, there is no such thing as "MY mom." Even if you are an only child, you still say "our mom" in translation. The concept simply does not EXIST. That mixed in with the fact that I know quite a few people in my parent''s generation who had arranged marriages (mine were not), so that might come into play.

Asian parents often sacrifice a lot of their own personal happiness to get their kids through school and into a socially desired position according to their standards. It''s a measure oftheir own success, and part of that is to have appropriate matches for their children. Allycat may have mentioned this in some of her posts, but in asian communities, 6 degrees of separation is more like 2 degrees and people TALK. Any misstep on the part of the child is often seen as a reflection on their parents and pride is a big thing in asian communities. Some asian people can''t handle the thought of losing face.

Therefore I think it must be hard for asian parents to understand that their child sees it as his/her own life. It''s a family unit...it''s all one. So their interests are as important as their child''s.

Pandora, I think almost every parent will ask those questions, but I have yet to see a non asian family ask those questions to my face in rapid succession with the sole intent of judging your character on the answers...I could be wrong though!

 

[AGBF]

Date: 3/13/2007 3:28:36 PM
Author: decodelighted
I can''t speak to the cultural-specific issues ... but IN GENERAL, my advice about dealing with *snobs* would be ... ask them a lot about THEMSELVES. Be FASCINATED. Be suitably IMPRESSED with whatever they''re boasting about at the moment.

People *like* people who *like them*. And once they *like* you ... they''ll be more willing to cut you slack & not gossip etc etc.


ps -- My little sis taught me this technique when she found that her prickly, kinda snooty husband wasn''t gelling with her more laidback friends & family. She''d go on & on to him about how much the other people *liked him*, what nice things they told HER about HIM etc etc ... sure enough, he started to warm up to people & then genuine friendly relationships resulted! He wanted to be liked - his defense mechanisms were acting up when he FEARED he wouldn''t be liked ... but when he thought he ALREADY WAS liked - he could *like* back, relax & open up & be ACTUALLY liked.

This is brilliant. Thank you, decodelighted!

Deb

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 3/13/2007 5:00:15 PM
Author: Maria D
>>- where did you go to school?
- what do you do?
- how much do you make?<<



But the last one-- how do you answer without sounding/feeling completely uncomfortable? If you make a friendly quip do they press for an actual number? What would happen if the person just acted like they didn''t hear the question and changed the subject (what I would probably do!)? Would they find that rude?

My aunts and uncles ask me that all the time! It''s annoying and I just answer it like this (in a sweet and jovial manner):

"Oh, I work hard and make enough to enjoy life and make sure my parents are well taken care of. That''s the most important thing!"

They usually agree and are impressed by it not to inquire further.

 

[hikerchick]

Date: 3/13/2007 5:05:04 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Good question, F&I. I have often wondered what the answer is myself, and I''ve come to the conclusion that there is no one size fits all answer. East meets west is often a complicated thing, and it is just as hard to explain eastern thought to westerners as it is explaining and making easterns understand western thoughts and customs. I go through it all the time trying to explain certain things to TGuy, but I understand that he will never ''get'' it completely.

One of the biggest differences in culture is that many asians are a ''we'' culture and don''t buy into individualism as some western cultures do. One of the examples I give is that in Korean language, there is no such thing as ''MY mom.'' Even if you are an only child, you still say ''our mom'' in translation. The concept simply does not EXIST. That mixed in with the fact that I know quite a few people in my parent''s generation who had arranged marriages (mine were not), so that might come into play.

Asian parents often sacrifice a lot of their own personal happiness to get their kids through school and into a socially desired position according to their standards. It''s a measure oftheir own success, and part of that is to have appropriate matches for their children. Allycat may have mentioned this in some of her posts, but in asian communities, 6 degrees of separation is more like 2 degrees and people TALK. Any misstep on the part of the child is often seen as a reflection on their parents and pride is a big thing in asian communities. Some asian people can''t handle the thought of losing face.

Therefore I think it must be hard for asian parents to understand that their child sees it as his/her own life. It''s a family unit...it''s all one. So their interests are as important as their child''s.

Pandora, I think almost every parent will ask those questions, but I have yet to see a non asian family ask those questions to my face in rapid succession with the sole intent of judging your character on the answers...I could be wrong though!

I have been sitting here trying to find the best way to answer fire and ice''s very good question and really couldn''t have said it any better than Travelling Gal . . . I am very impressed with your ability to explain the very complex cultural ways in such a precise way.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 3/13/2007 5:17:06 PM
Author: hikerchick

Date: 3/13/2007 5:05:04 PM
Author: TravelingGal

sole intent of judging your character on the answers...I could be wrong though!

I have been sitting here trying to find the best way to answer fire and ice''s very good question and really couldn''t have said it any better than Travelling Gal . . . I am very impressed with your ability to explain the very complex cultural ways in such a precise way.

Ditto - it made perfectly good sense of a very complex issue.

Another question - I wonder when this new generation have children of marrying age will the same cultural ways translate? Will it perpetuate?

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 3/13/2007 5:23:37 PM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 3/13/2007 5:17:06 PM
Author: hikerchick


I have been sitting here trying to find the best way to answer fire and ice''s very good question and really couldn''t have said it any better than Travelling Gal . . . I am very impressed with your ability to explain the very complex cultural ways in such a precise way.

Ditto - it made perfectly good sense of a very complex issue.

Another question - I wonder when this new generation have children of marrying age will the same cultural ways translate? Will it perpetuate?

Thanks for the nice words.

As for your new question F&I, I''ll answer for myself...

I don''t think so. Just by my place in American society, I won''t be making the same sacrifices for my child that my parents did for me. I''m also westernized enough to appreciate and understand the way my kids see things (I hope).

I would imagine that as a parent, I will want to know the answer to the questions that the OP posted, and will no doubt be a bit disappointed (for lack of a better word) if my child''s partner isn''t up to snuff. That''s just being a parent, I think. But I won''t judge someone''s potential to make my child happy based on those questions, which seems to be an issue sometimes with our older asian generation.

 

[hikerchick]

Date: 3/13/2007 5:23:37 PM
Author: fire&ice
Ditto - it made perfectly good sense of a very complex issue.

Another question - I wonder when this new generation have children of marrying age will the same cultural ways translate? Will it perpetuate?

I don''t think the same issues will perpetuate but I am certain we as americanized imigrants will create new issues of our own. No person is perfect and we will all likely make mistakes. The biggest mistake my parents made which I hope to avoid is bad communication. Our home was one where children were to be seen and not heard and this resulted in a lack of open communication between myself and my parents, this has been one of the biggest obstacles and I hope that no matter what mistakes I make as a parent that I will foster communication between myself and my kids. However, my parents always made me feel loved and cared about, maybe not unconditionally but very loved and cared about.

There are values and morals that eastern cultures tend to cultivate that I really respect and hope doesn''t get lost with the next generation . . . picking and choosing the best of the 2 worlds will the delicate balancing act that we in my generation will have to contend with. I hope I won''t lose or be rid of all the Indian side of me because there is much good I would want to retain and pass along to my kids, just not the attitude originally addressed in this thread.

 

[chiefneil]

Date: 3/13/2007 4:44:28 PM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 3/13/2007 3:33:44 PM

Author: TravelingGal
But we''re really talking about a different (stinky) kettle of fish here. It''s a cultural thing, and it is what it is.

I''ve read this same thing through the years on this forum. I have to ask *why* do you think it is what it is? It is just that culturally you are more direct? Is it viewed more as a business transaction? Is it just assumed that you are in love & that is just not enough - kinda like a cut to the chase - my daughter is smart enough to find someone wonderful - now just how wonderful are you? Is it a badge for bragging rights? Competition? Or, in my world, WASP''s tend to take the back door in asking all these questions & just hoping to hear the right thing?

I actually got to witness my SIL''s boyfriend go through this with my wife''s parents while visiting them at home in asia. It''s important to note that culturally, this is not viewed as objectional behavior by the supplicant (the BF in this case). That is, the inquisition is expected and accepted. You will grovel and do your best to be accepted by the family because that''s what''s expected. The parent''s approval is indeed critical and valued for the kids - when in their home culture.

When this is transplated to a 2nd gen child and a Western BF, that''s where you get into issues. Here, the BF or girlfriend, or the son/daughter, views the whole thing as a rude and unnecessary waste of time to be gotten through in the least painful way possible. The parents don''t think it''s rude at all, of course, so your reactions have to be tempered by that realization.

I do think it is entirely appropriate for the daughter/son to shield the BF/GF where possible. As someone else said, they can say "That''s not appropriate" when the question of "how much do you make" comes up. Shielding from the son/daughter should be acceptable as they''re a bridge between cultures, and should be perceived in a neutral way (they''re passing along the message "that''s not acceptable in this culture"), whereas an evasive or rude answer from the BF would be taken as a rude or evasive answer.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 3/13/2007 7:04:04 PM
Author: chiefneil


I actually got to witness my SIL''s boyfriend go through this with my wife''s parents while visiting them at home in asia. It''s important to note that culturally, this is not viewed as objectional behavior by the supplicant (the BF in this case). That is, the inquisition is expected and accepted. You will grovel and do your best to be accepted by the family because that''s what''s expected. The parent''s approval is indeed critical and valued for the kids - when in their home culture.

When this is transplated to a 2nd gen child and a Western BF, that''s where you get into issues. Here, the BF or girlfriend, or the son/daughter, views the whole thing as a rude and unnecessary waste of time to be gotten through in the least painful way possible. The parents don''t think it''s rude at all, of course, so your reactions have to be tempered by that realization.

I do think it is entirely appropriate for the daughter/son to shield the BF/GF where possible. As someone else said, they can say ''That''s not appropriate'' when the question of ''how much do you make'' comes up. Shielding from the son/daughter should be acceptable as they''re a bridge between cultures, and should be perceived in a neutral way (they''re passing along the message ''that''s not acceptable in this culture''), whereas an evasive or rude answer from the BF would be taken as a rude or evasive answer.

insightful post chiefneil..

I agree that we should be a much of a bridge/buffer as possible. I think sometimes the problems come about because the son/daughter does not "stand up" to his/her parents enough. You''ve gotta be willing to coach, and hopefully your partner is a willing pupil.

Certain things just are expected. I still chuckle when I remember I had to coach TGuy to say the right things to the smallest comments. It''s pretty common for korean women to apologize for the quality or quantity of a meal when they cook for you, knowing full well it''s plenty and good. You should NEVER say "oh, it''s OK." Instead, you say there it''s fabulous food and there is so much of it. Sometimes we are so backwards in how we want to draw a certain response and other times we asians are so darn forward!!!

 

[innerkitten]

If thats true it''s sad. People who that concerned with and attempt to surround themselves only with certain types of people based on where they grew up, went to school, and so on are really missing out on some interesting people, situations and life experiences.

Now this may not be true but I bet a lot of people they buy things from, and think are cool and creative, like designers artists hollywood actors etc... often came from backgrounds very different from their own.

 

[hikerchick]

Date: 3/13/2007 7:16:32 PM
Author: TravelingGal
insightful post chiefneil..

You''ve gotta be willing to coach, and hopefully your partner is a willing pupil.

Hehehehe . . . my BF and I have some pretty funny conversations of what is appropriate. Around my family, I try to not get anywhere near my BF because we are so used to holding hands or touching each others arm or leaning against each other, all of which is COMPLETELY unacceptable and so to avoid accidentally touching each other we just sit at opposite ends of the room. A month or so ago, I made some comment about how much my feet were killing me because I had been on them for 10 hours while running an important experiment at work. We were at my parent''s home and instinctually my BF reached and grabbed them to massage them and the look of terror combined with embarrasment and shame on my Dad''s face almost made me laugh out loud. I had to pull my feet away quickly and explain to my confused BF why the EXTREMELY thoughtful gesture was just not allowed in front of the fam. HA !!! My sister was amused watching the whole interaction

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 3/13/2007 7:32:46 PM
Author: hikerchick


Hehehehe . . . my BF and I have some pretty funny conversations of what is appropriate. Around my family, I try to not get anywhere near my BF because we are so used to holding hands or touching each others arm or leaning against each other, all of which is COMPLETELY unacceptable and so to avoid accidentally touching each other we just sit at opposite ends of the room. A month or so ago, I made some comment about how much my feet were killing me because I had been on them for 10 hours while running an important experiment at work. We were at my parent''s home and instinctually my BF reached and grabbed them to massage them and the look of terror combined with embarrasment and shame on my Dad''s face almost made me laugh out loud. I had to pull my feet away quickly and explain to my confused BF why the EXTREMELY thoughtful gesture was just not allowed in front of the fam. HA !!! My sister was amused watching the whole interaction

Ha, that was another tip I was gonna give to the OP: No touching!

You''re totally right that even casual physical interaction that is no big deal to us can really freak out our asian parents. And at the risk of sounding old fashioned myself, I''ll never forget meeting my cousin''s boyfriend for the first time. She''s the same age as me, he''s 4 years younger. He was meeting her sister and her two cousins (me included) and we are all about the same age.

He was all over her! And it takes two to tango so she wasn''t exactly putting him off. It was so disconcerting that all of us were thrown for loop.

And hikerchick, this may be a bit ironic to you, but he is Indian.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 3/13/2007 7:16:32 PM
Author: TravelingGal
I still chuckle when I remember I had to coach TGuy to say the right things to the smallest comments. It''s pretty common for korean women to apologize for the quality or quantity of a meal when they cook for you, knowing full well it''s plenty and good. You should NEVER say ''oh, it''s OK.'' Instead, you say there it''s fabulous food and there is so much of it.

Slightly off topic ... but this made me laugh ''cause DH & I had an argument this weekend that we quickly realized was a North/South culture clash. I was trying to get him to try my FAGE! And I asked once, he said no ... I asked again ... he was like "um, didn''t I just say no" ... and I was all "you''ll really like it" and he was all "WHAT IS YO FREAKIN PROBLEMO" ... I couldn''t understand why he was so upset and he thought I was NAGGING him. Couple minutes of cooling off and I realized ... in the south we are TRAINED to turn stuff down TWICE & only accept on the third attempt. So as not to seem greedy, or impose on a "host". It''s a little dance we do ... "Here, have a cookie" "Noooo - I couldn''t." "Really, please do." "Noooooooo, I shouldn''t" .... "It''s *good*" ... "OH OKAY! Just one" --THE END-- So I explained & he laughed realizing that I *do* do that reflexively & it''s not because I''m not listening etc ... We agreed that from now on - he''ll help try to "snap me out of it" by saying "NO, *Southern Girl* ... I actually don''t want any"

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 3/13/2007 7:44:02 PM
Author: decodelighted


Slightly off topic ... but this made me laugh ''cause DH & I had an argument this weekend that we quickly realized was a North/South culture clash. I was trying to get him to try my FAGE! And I asked once, he said no ... I asked again ... he was like ''um, didn''t I just say no'' ... and I was all ''you''ll really like it'' and he was all ''WHAT IS YO FREAKIN PROBLEMO'' ... I couldn''t understand why he was so upset and he thought I was NAGGING him. Couple minutes of cooling off and I realized ... in the south we are TRAINED to turn stuff down TWICE & only accept on the third attempt. So as not to seem greedy, or impose on a ''host''. It''s a little dance we do ... ''Here, have a cookie'' ''Noooo - I couldn''t.'' ''Really, please do.'' ''Noooooooo, I shouldn''t'' .... ''It''s *good*'' ... ''OH OKAY! Just one'' --THE END-- So I explained & he laughed realizing that I *do* do that reflexively & it''s not because I''m not listening etc ... We agreed that from now on - he''ll help try to ''snap me out of it'' by saying ''NO, *Southern Girl* ... I actually don''t want any''

LOL...that is so funny!!! You wouldn''t do well with a lot of Koreans...it''s rude to refuse food (second helpings, etc), because it may mean you didn''t like it!

 

[hikerchick]

Date: 3/13/2007 7:38:01 PM
Author: TravelingGal

And hikerchick, this may be a bit ironic to you, but he is Indian.

BAH !! There is no excuse for those Indian boys

Talking about Indian boys, there is definitely a bit of a double standard for girls versus boys in my culture. Things my male cousins can get away with are TOTALLY unacceptable for us girls.

The guy versus girl thing actually makes it harder on the for a non-indian man trying to win approval for dating an Indian girl rather than the other way around, if the guy were indian and he dated a non-indian girl . . . atleast in my family. TGal, do you find that double standard in your culture?

Also, DignDive . . . so sorry for the runaway thread, guess you pushed a button, hope you don't mind. If it is annoying to have us discussing cultural differences on your thread, let us know and I can start a new thread.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 3/13/2007 7:55:41 PM
Author: hikerchick

BAH !! There is no excuse for those Indian boys

Talking about Indian boys, there is definitely a bit of a double standard for girls versus boys in my culture. Things my male cousins can get away with are TOTALLY unacceptable for us girls.

The guy versus girl thing actually makes it harder on the for a non-indian man trying to win approval for dating an Indian girl rather than the other way around, if the guy were indian and he dated a non-indian girl . . . atleast in my family. TGal, do you find that double standard in your culture?

Also, DignDive . . . so sorry for the runaway thread, guess you pushed a button, hope you don''t mind. If it is annoying to have us discussing cultural differences on your thread, let us know and I can start a new thread.

Hm...another interesting question. Maybe there are other Koreans lurking who can answer this, because I am not sure.

I actually think it''s in reverse. Males are revered in familes, especially if it the oldest or only son (as evidenced by the fact that Korean and China are going through a shortage in women for their men because they gave so many of the girls away for adoption). Koreans understand that when you marry, the girl "belongs" to the man''s family. So then I think that Korean parents would want their son to marry a Korean girl so she could carry out a lot of her "responsibility" without a lot of cultural miscommunication, does that make sense? Korean MILs wouldn''t feel like they would have a whole lot of say to their daughter''s husbands, but would feel like they did to their son''s wives. If the DIL''s weren''t Korean, it makes it pretty hard for them to say things, even though they feel like they have the right.

In my family personally, there was no problem with me marrying a white Australian man (but again, I was "old"). My mother would have been a bit more bummed if my brother had married non-Korean, but she is so easygoing, it''s hard to say for sure. Also, as east asians, it is far more common to see (and therefore more accepted) to see an asian woman with a non-asian men instead of vice versa.

 

[ursulawrite]

Date: 3/13/2007 7:29:40 PM
Author: innerkitten
If thats true it''s sad. People who that concerned with and attempt to surround themselves only with certain types of people based on where they grew up, went to school, and so on are really missing out on some interesting people, situations and life experiences.

Now this may not be true but I bet a lot of people they buy things from, and think are cool and creative, like designers artists hollywood actors etc... often came from backgrounds very different from their own.

I''m with you completely, Inner Kitten. It''s a sad indictment of society that six-figure salaries rank above creativity, compassion and any number of qualities not found in someone''s wallet.

Thank goodness my own parents are the complete opposite.

 

[chiefneil]

Date: 3/13/2007 7:16:32 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 3/13/2007 7:04:04 PM

Author: chiefneil



I actually got to witness my SIL''s boyfriend go through this with my wife''s parents while visiting them at home in asia. It''s important to note that culturally, this is not viewed as objectional behavior by the supplicant (the BF in this case). That is, the inquisition is expected and accepted. You will grovel and do your best to be accepted by the family because that''s what''s expected. The parent''s approval is indeed critical and valued for the kids - when in their home culture.


When this is transplated to a 2nd gen child and a Western BF, that''s where you get into issues. Here, the BF or girlfriend, or the son/daughter, views the whole thing as a rude and unnecessary waste of time to be gotten through in the least painful way possible. The parents don''t think it''s rude at all, of course, so your reactions have to be tempered by that realization.

insightful post chiefneil..

It was really interesting to watch the process as an outside observer. Of course I never experienced it myself, being that I''m tall, handsome, went to a top school, make a lot of money, and am exceedingly stylish

BTW, the poor BF failed the exam, and SIL dumped him shortly afterwards. In this case the parents actually just reinforced the reservations she already had, so it wasn''t necessarily a bad thing.

 

[diamondfan]

I am not Asian so I do not want to make erroneous assumptions, but I think it is universal for a parent to really want to know as much as possible about their child''s future mate. Of course, grilling someone over the coals like a shrimp when you are meeting them for the first time is not gracious, but maybe it is the norm for an Asian mom and dad meeting the fiance for the first time. I am sure they are hoping you are a great guy and will be good to her. The funny thing is, sometimes, even when there is bad blood at first, etc, sometimes it all ends up being great and one can laugh at the early times...notice I said sometimes. Also, I think the most important thing is that they see you are strong and confident, no matter how you answer the questions posed to you. Be pleasant but do not kowtow, and maybe that will earn their respect...I am sure they know this is a tough situation for you, the grillee, as much as they want answers.

 

[hikerchick]

Date: 3/13/2007 8:05:26 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Hm...another interesting question. Maybe there are other Koreans lurking who can answer this, because I am not sure.

I actually think it''s in reverse. Males are revered in familes, especially if it the oldest or only son (as evidenced by the fact that Korean and China are going through a shortage in women for their men because they gave so many of the girls away for adoption). Koreans understand that when you marry, the girl ''belongs'' to the man''s family. So then I think that Korean parents would want their son to marry a Korean girl so she could carry out a lot of her ''responsibility'' without a lot of cultural miscommunication, does that make sense? Korean MILs wouldn''t feel like they would have a whole lot of say to their daughter''s husbands, but would feel like they did to their son''s wives. If the DIL''s weren''t Korean, it makes it pretty hard for them to say things, even though they feel like they have the right.

In my family personally, there was no problem with me marrying a white Australian man (but again, I was ''old''). My mother would have been a bit more bummed if my brother had married non-Korean, but she is so easygoing, it''s hard to say for sure. Also, as east asians, it is far more common to see (and therefore more accepted) to see an asian woman with a non-asian men instead of vice versa.

You know, I see that as well so now I am torn about my own initial observation on the double standard. Boys are more "cherished" in my culture and daughter-in-laws are the "property" of the in-laws. Stories my mother has told me about her first years being married to my father and how his family treated her are quite shocking to me. So, I agree with you that maybe it is more important for a boy to marry within the race as the girl''s submissiveness is a treasures "feature" but I also think when the boy, the treasured son takes a stance and marries out the race, the family is much more ready to forgive and pat him on the back. Does that make any sense?

Also, I think there is DEFINITELY a larger number of Indian women with non-Indian men than vice versa.

Another interesting thought I had reading some of the responses is that in eastern cultures where arranged marraiges are prevelant, the time between the "boy" and "girl" meeting and getting married is VERY short, in some cases only a few weeks olr a few months, in this case, love isn''t what dictates the commitment but compatible financial, socio-economic status, education, etc. So, when compatibility is measured it is in terms of these above tangible things and not the "warm and fuzzy" stuff we think about?

My Dad used to say to me how he nevers understands this vague, subjective love stuff. That strong marraiges are a result of a good match made by objective compatibility and then he''d quote divorce statistics and roll his eyes at "love marraiges". My culture is also coming around to the western ways more and more in both an increase in "love marraiges" as well as divorce rates (which may well be a result of women being more independant).

In any case just for food for thought.

 

[DignDive]

No no hikerchick, the responses have been fabulous, keep them coming!!! {is that the right Korean response Tgal?}

haha

No worries at all hikerchick. I've been fascinated by the responses I've been reading and I've gotten a really thorough 360 view of a range of opinions which was precisely what I was after in the first place. Besides my question was answered on page 1, so everything passed that point is gravy.

Interestingly enough, TGal...I laughed out loud at your comment on "coaching". I met up with the GF the day after I met with her and her sister not too long ago and she gave me the dreaded, "listen we have to talk about last night," bit. I didn't quite get the responses from her sister that I was expecting but then again, "being me" didn't quite have the effect I was looking for in bridging that cultural divide. I tend to be boisterous, very touchy and have no issues with PDA, I'm the type of guy that within 30 minutes of meeting me you'll get the whole autobiography whether you want it or not.

So the "coaching" portion of that discussion was to show me that...
#1) those were all the things that she loved about me (and she was smart to point that out first )
#2) those would never fly with her parents

Again, she was careful to explain that although it wasn't necessarily a bad thing, I have to be cognizant of the audience and can't expect to get the response from different people with different temperments. It was a bit of an eye opener, but it's because she loved me enough that she was willing to coach me on the subtle nuances of dealing with her family.

Little bit of an update for you though...

She had spoken to her sister (who converses daily with mom) and apparently I got a tentative thumbs up. Mom is reportedly "happy" at the prospect of meeting me. We're planning on visiting them in a month or so, so with that in mind, she said something to the effect of..."Oh I have to go and buy him his own sheets, and his own towel so he has his own things in his room."

That smile turned into a quizzical look so fast it was comical...

I turn to my girlfriend and ask her, "Wait, MY room? Don't she mean OUR room?"

With that gentle look of exasperation and love, she smiled at me and began the 2nd coaching session...

 

[Moosejaw]

People can be as nice as they want with..."Just be yourself..." however, you''re not going to change people like this, and most likely won''t win them over.

Either leave now and live a peaceful life, or get ready to be shunned.

I have dated women who come from a "pedigree", and some who hadn''t but acted like they had...
There will be no pleasing the family, and don''t even try to compete.

Thats my best advice.

 

[hikerchick]

Date: 3/14/2007 12:51:27 PM
Author: Moosejaw
People can be as nice as they want with...''Just be yourself...'' however, you''re not going to change people like this, and most likely won''t win them over.


Either leave now and live a peaceful life, or get ready to be shunned.


I have dated women who come from a ''pedigree'', and some who hadn''t but acted like they had...

There will be no pleasing the family, and don''t even try to compete.


Thats my best advice.

Well, I am glad the love of my life, the joy in my world didn''t think like you . . . I would like to think people are capable of change and that sometimes that change is difficult for those willing to stick around to make it possible as well as for those people having to do the rethinking and the changing.

 

[Nicrez]

People can change, granted only if they WANT to change. It depends on where their priorities lie...

In my family, my aunt married someone who was very very looked down upon in status. Huge no no. But to date, she has two lovely children who are fawned over by the same people who were against the marraige. What made her husband finally be accepted? He was the water among the rocks...he wore everyone down just by being himself, being adpatable and kind and basically being who he is. To this day I actually like him mroe than my aunt, but that's another topic...

Just a side note, my family can change, because we are very big on family. I saw it happening in other cases, but even if you are intially "loved" a family that is not yours will give you headache. You have to learn to work at it and be patient. Very patient and always consider where they are coming from. I am not saying it is excuseable, so don't be a doormat!

But if it can be understood, you can combat it. Like if it is a fear for their daughter's status, combat that with she is LOVED and she will always have you to take care of her and you are an honest, good person people will get to know and like. If it's about money, show them that you will have her want for nothing she doesn't NEED...all the rest is just trappings (but obviously don't say it like that to THEM)...ask them specifically what their issue is. In my opinion tactful honesty will take away whatever power they think they have over you. It works too.

Be yourself, be confident in your relationship and stand up for eachother. Never let them see that they can break you apart. No fighting in front of them EVER. No arguing or even disagreeing. All they need is a small crack and they will think they have a means to pry you apart, and try they will...probably on her side first...

Good luck!!!

 

[KristyDarling]

I''m late to the thread but I can empathize with your situation. My hubby and I are both American-born Asians and we come from very similar backgrounds. Except that his is much more "patrician" than mine. His parents gave me the cold shoulder when we first met. At our first dinner together, they completely ignored me...as if I wasn''t even at the table. Neither of his parents made eye contact with me, acknowledged anything I said, or said a single word to me. It was shocking and humilating. They disliked me from the start because neither I nor my parents were doctors, lawyers, or investment bankers...we are highly educated, but we''re an ordinary family without important political or social ties. DH had warned me about this, so I was somewhat prepared, but it still hurt like a bizzatch.

It has been 10 years since that first meeting, and they are finally starting to warm up to me. I have since married their son and birthed their two grandchildren. I''ve learned that just because they have rigid "criteria," it doesn''t mean that they are inherently bad people. There are deeply ingrained traditions and expectations with people from the "old country," and they are what they are -- even if we don''t agree with them. Instead of standing up to these generations-old expectations, I just stay true to myself, act like myself, and make sure that I''m pleasant around them at all times, even if they don''t reciprocate. Being consistently respectful and pleasant over the years is what has gradually caused them to let down their guard. It has shown them that I''m a nice, dependable, responsible person who is a good wife and mother. I think they''ve realized over the years that even though there is no M.D. or M.B.A. behind my name, I''m an ok person.

Now if they would just stop referring to themselves as "Dr. ___ and Mrs. ____" around me, then I will finally feel like a real part of their family!!!

I would advise that you simply be yourself, don''t try to impress anyone, and above all -- be respectful and pleasant. Try your best to relax and feel at ease....if you act nervous around them, they will be nervous (and more judgemental) too. You may not win their hearts upon first meeting, but over time, your love for their daughter, sunny disposition, and intelligence will gradually win them over!

 

[Nicrez]

Hysterical! KristyDarling, it took you 10 years, and two kids just like my uncle and you had the SAME method of attack...niceness!

See it works, but again, over time, and if it's worth it, the time won't be badly spent...

 

[KristyDarling]

Wow, Nicrez! How funny, I just read your post and yeah -- me and your Uncle were in very similar positions! It is totally possible to wear someone down with niceness! (even if they may not deserve it!)

 

[hikerchick]

Date: 3/14/2007 2:08:04 PM
Author: Nicrez

Never let them see that they can break you apart. No fighting in front of them EVER. No arguing or even disagreeing. All they need is a small crack and they will think they have a means to pry you apart, and try they will...probably on her side first...

Good luck!!!

This is SUCH an important point. Take this piece of advice from Nicrez to heart . . . I will never ever let them see me even roll my eyes at my BF, even a smallest bit of fuel can restart that fire.