Pink sapphire help/opinions?

[HRBenedict]

Hi everyone, new poster here, but I've been lurking awhile since I started my search for the perfect e-ring rock. Being a super excited newbie, I simply browsed through all the online catalogs to my heart's content before I found something that immediately grabbed me, even though I wasn't even specifically looking for pink.

Long story short, at this point, I've already put down a deposit and am quite far along the process of designing my ring when it occurred to me, rather belatedly I realize, that I might be making my soon to be fiance pay more than he should for a non-pad pink sapphire, even if it's unheated. It's also kind of a deep cut, so now I'm concerned that we're not getting the best 'face value' stone within our budget.

The #1 Web-Shop for Fine Natural Gems and Jewelry in Europe since 2003 - Unheated Ceylon Sapphire 1.87

sky blue unheated sapphire in oval shape for sale plus full certification by IGI

www.wildfishgems.com

There's also a video they sent me which I can't seem to attach here, and it seems a bit more pale and slightly less brilliant in some lightings in the video, but really I have no experience evaluating sapphires, so any help or just opinions on this gem would be appreciated.

At almost 6k for less than 2 carats, should I try negotiating more? (I am also getting another gem from the same vendor, and have yet to receive final quotations for the setting).

Experts and enthusiasts of PS, what do you think? Should I renegotiate, or is this just regular post-decision anxiety?

 

[lovedogs]

My personal opinion is that Wildfish's prices are extremely high. Too high for what he sells (again, IMHO). But if you love it, that's what matters. I think if you're far along in the process and you love it then I would stay on track. But if you're doubting it because you think it's overpriced and you could find something similar for a more reasonable price I think you're likely right.

Is unheated important for you?

 

[peacechick]

Have you received the stone in person to view it or did you go ahead to have it set already? A good step might be to see the stone for yourself to decide if you love it that much. It’s really difficult to photograph gemstones accurately and they may appear to the eye differently from their pictures. The good part is you’ve only put down a deposit so you should still be able to return it if you’re not happy. Definitely put the setting process on pause if you are not sure!

My opinion is that you’re paying a premium price I expect to see for a nice medium blue, not a lighter pink...That said, I think pads are priced even higher than what you are paying. So everything falls in a range...

 

[HRBenedict]

My personal opinion is that Wildfish's prices are extremely high. Too high for what he sells (again, IMHO). But if you love it, that's what matters. I think if you're far along in the process and you love it then I would stay on track. But if you're doubting it because you think it's overpriced and you could find something similar for a more reasonable price I think you're likely right.

Is unheated important for you?

Unheated is important to me because I want my stone to be as natural as possible, with the cutting and faceting being the only things added ideally.

Have you received the stone in person to view it or did you go ahead to have it set already? A good step might be to see the stone for yourself to decide if you love it that much. It’s really difficult to photograph gemstones accurately and they may appear to the eye differently from their pictures. The good part is you’ve only put down a deposit so you should still be able to return it if you’re not happy. Definitely put the setting process on pause if you are not sure!

My opinion is that you’re paying the kind of price I expect to see for a 2 ct cornflower blue (aka the premium), not a more common light pink.

I might go ahead and insist on viewing it in person before setting, but I guess I'm just trying to figure out if it's a reasonable premium over the market average for the color and quality even if I like it (given that we're not swimming in cash, obviously, in which case it would hardly matter).

 

[Rfisher]

That vendor offers discounts (regularly 33-40% maybe I can’t remember).
if you are going to negotiate - I’d start there - especially if it’s a stone that has been in his inventory for awhile.
As for his pricing - reading their ‘about us’ will give you some idea of why they do what they do. Whether or not you agree is the benefit of being a shopper - you don’t have to.
they are an easy company to deal with though - my opinion from one transaction with them. I’m in the USA - so it was an overseas transaction.
If the static listing photo(s) grabbed you, but the hand shot video left you deflated - I would not take that lightly. But -lighting matters, including his latitude vs yours - and know that not that many sapphires out there keep their same color in various lightings.

 

[lovedogs]

That vendor offers discounts (regularly 33-40% maybe I can’t remember).
if you are going to negotiate - I’d start there - especially if it’s a stone that has been in his inventory for awhile.
As for his pricing - reading their ‘about us’ will give you some idea of why they do what they do. Whether or not you agree is the benefit of being a shopper - you don’t have to.
they are an easy company to deal with though - my opinion from one transaction with them. I’m in the USA - so it was an overseas transaction.
If the static listing photo(s) grabbed you, but the hand shot video left you deflated - I would not take that lightly. But -lighting matters, including his latitude vs yours - and know that not that many sapphires out there keep their same color in various lightings.

Exactly. Agreed on all counts.

 

[lovedogs]

Example of an unheated sapphire that IMHO is more reasonably priced for what it is:

Padparadscha Sapphire Unheated Pinkish Orange Pear | 1.68cts | #13-533 - Gemfix

Unheated Padparadscha Pink Orange Sapphire Pear, GIA Report Untreated Pad

gemfix.com

and https://gemfix.com/gems/sapphire-pink-13-564


And another that's more of a soft pink (without the orange/yellow tones)

Unheated Natural Light Pink Sapphire Oval "Portuguese" Cut | 3.03cts | #13-563 - Gemfix

Unheated Light Pastel Pink Sapphire Oval Modified "Portuguese" Cut Untreated

gemfix.com

Gemfix has amazing stones at what I think are much more reasonable prices. Plus the videos are very helpful for understanding how the stone will perform IRL.

Fine Natural Pink Orange and Padparadscha Sapphires from Gemfix

Fine Natural Pink Orange and Padparadscha Sapphires from Gemfix, American Cut Gems

gemfix.com

 

[peacechick]

Maybe take a look at Africagems’ selection as they have some light pink ovals. It will give you an idea at least. I note your stone is unheated, inclusion-free and well cut, so perhaps that’s why the premium. Only you can decide what you value.

Oval Pink Sapphire Stones - Loose Pink Sapphire Ovals Gemstones for SALE

Shop for LOOSE OVAL SAPPHIRE. Shopping for PINK OVAL SAPPHIRES? AfricaGems is The LOOSE PINK SAPPHIRE GEMSTONE Experts. We stock LOOSE PINK SAPPHIRE GEMSTONES from large pink sapphires to small pink sapphire gems. We guarantee all of our pink sapphire purchases. Choose from an incredible...

www.africagems.com

I like this one best by the way, and it comes with a GIA cert:

Great Deal Oval Cut Faceted Pink Sapphire Gemstone, 2.25 carats, 8.98 x 6.74 x 4.57 mm with GIA Certificate, Huge Presence

Buy Gemstones and Gemstone Rings like this Great Deal Oval Cut Faceted Pink Sapphire Gemstone, 2.25 carats, 8.98 x 6.74 x 4.57 mm with GIA Certificate, Huge Presence on SALE now at AfricaGems.com. Order gemstones, loose gemstones, gemstone rings and gemstone engagement rings like this Great...

www.africagems.com

 

[HRBenedict]

Maybe take a look at Africagems’ selection as they have some light pink ovals. It will give you an idea at least. I note your stone is unheated, inclusion-free and well cut, so perhaps that’s why the premium. Only you can decide what you value.

Oval Pink Sapphire Stones - Loose Pink Sapphire Ovals Gemstones for SALE

Shop for LOOSE OVAL SAPPHIRE. Shopping for PINK OVAL SAPPHIRES? AfricaGems is The LOOSE PINK SAPPHIRE GEMSTONE Experts. We stock LOOSE PINK SAPPHIRE GEMSTONES from large pink sapphires to small pink sapphire gems. We guarantee all of our pink sapphire purchases. Choose from an incredible...

www.africagems.com

I like this one best by the way, and it comes with a GIA cert:

Great Deal Oval Cut Faceted Pink Sapphire Gemstone, 2.25 carats, 8.98 x 6.74 x 4.57 mm with GIA Certificate, Huge Presence

Buy Gemstones and Gemstone Rings like this Great Deal Oval Cut Faceted Pink Sapphire Gemstone, 2.25 carats, 8.98 x 6.74 x 4.57 mm with GIA Certificate, Huge Presence on SALE now at AfricaGems.com. Order gemstones, loose gemstones, gemstone rings and gemstone engagement rings like this Great...

www.africagems.com

I saw that last one as well, and thought about reaching out to ask them about more pictures. It's just still kind of mind boggling how the prices can be so different, when I'm still not sure on the criteria used in pricing sapphires in the first place.

 

[Rfisher]

Hold up OP.
You already have paid a deposit? Am I to assume correctly the vendor is setting the stone as well?

 

[HRBenedict]

I found a way to upload the video here, so for reference this is what I was referring to when I said it looked kind of different from the pictures.

 

[HRBenedict]

Hold up OP.
You already have paid a deposit? Am I to assume correctly the vendor is setting the stone as well?

Yes. Design is just about finalized, but it hasn't moved into the production stage as far as I know. I don't even have a final quotation yet that includes the setting and design fees, but I'm concerned at this point that everything is going to be overpriced if we're already starting off with a hefty premium on the stone. Do you think it's still worth negotiating? Bearing in mind I haven't seen these stones in person yet, only the video and images posted.

 

[sarahb]

Good luck on your sapphire project, but I'm really here for your cat. He/She is gorgeous & I love her/him!

 

[lovedogs]

Yes. Design is just about finalized, but it hasn't moved into the production stage as far as I know. I don't even have a final quotation yet that includes the setting and design fees, but I'm concerned at this point that everything is going to be overpriced if we're already starting off with a hefty premium on the stone. Do you think it's still worth negotiating? Bearing in mind I haven't seen these stones in person yet, only the video and images posted.

wait, you don't have a final price for everything yet? That's concerning. Because how do you know that you're ok with the final price without knowing what the final price is? Honestly I would not continue with this project, but that's just IMHO. How much was the deposit?

 

[peacechick]

I found a way to upload the video here, so for reference this is what I was referring to when I said it looked kind of different from the pictures.

It is a very beautiful, very clean stone. I think it’s gorgeous and see why you fell in love with it. The Africagems one I linked to may be a bit silkier. Still, I would ask for a video too in similar outdoor conditions.

I don’t want to drive you crazy but have you also looked at spinels? They come in pale pink too. Spinels cost less than sapphires.

 

[voce]

Yes. Design is just about finalized, but it hasn't moved into the production stage as far as I know. I don't even have a final quotation yet that includes the setting and design fees, but I'm concerned at this point that everything is going to be overpriced if we're already starting off with a hefty premium on the stone. Do you think it's still worth negotiating? Bearing in mind I haven't seen these stones in person yet, only the video and images posted.

It's always worth negotiating. Why would you not negotiate? Not negotiating is one of the reasons women make less money than men. Learning how to negotiate in a pleasant manner (not demanding, not bargaining) is one of the most important skills to learn in life.

Use the examples of other pink stones as data to show how his stone is above market price, and ask him nicely if he can reduce the price of his stone so it's closer to market prices of comparable stones.

It's not like you're buying a 10ct sapphire, for which it would be much harder to find comps. He might surprise you by giving you a discount. If he wants you to be a repeat customer, he will do what he can within reasonable means to make you satisfied.

If you say absolutely nothing, I think it will be on you if you overpay. Every vendor prices things differently. It's up to the consumer to communicate, or the vendor can be entirely in the dark about everything.

 

[Rfisher]

what is return policy right now vs after it’s set?
Are you willing to ‘invest’ in shipping the stone back and forth for you to approve of it before it’s set? I feel that cost is a drop in the bucket with the price you’ve stated for the stone..........
As for negotiating after you’ve agreed to a price and have paid a deposit - I don’t know.
but I do know it’s better for you to find all this out now - vs playing ‘what if’ later.

 

[HRBenedict]

Good luck on your sapphire project, but I'm really here for your cat. He/She is gorgeous & I love her/him!

Thank you, he knows he is gorgeous and loved.

 

[Rfisher]

That video does a good job of showing difference of appearance in different lighting.
And difference of appearance in an oval in n/s vs e/w orientation.

please have a heart to heart with the vendor about your budget. This has nothing to do with if I feel this stone is right for you, what other stones are out there as comps, or what it’s priced at. It has everything to do with communication and a positive experience between vendor and buyer.

some people do have the mindset and ability to theoretically hand a vendor a blank check. It happens. If you don’t tell a vendor otherwise - how would they know?

 

[HRBenedict]

It's always worth negotiating. Why would you not negotiate? Not negotiating is one of the reasons women make less money than men. Learning how to negotiate in a pleasant manner (not demanding, not bargaining) is one of the most important skills to learn in life.

Use the examples of other pink stones as data to show how his stone is above market price, and ask him nicely if he can reduce the price of his stone so it's closer to market prices of comparable stones.

It's not like you're buying a 10ct sapphire, for which it would be much harder to find comps. He might surprise you by giving you a discount. If he wants you to be a repeat customer, he will do what he can within reasonable means to make you satisfied.

If you say absolutely nothing, I think it will be on you if you overpay. Every vendor prices things differently. It's up to the consumer to communicate, or the vendor can be entirely in the dark about everything.

This is very helpful. Thank you. I do tend to feel very uncomfortable trying to 'bargain', but I will deal with those feelings and proceed to calmly negotiate the best price I can at this stage.

what is return policy right now vs after it’s set?
Are you willing to ‘invest’ in shipping the stone back and forth for you to approve of it before it’s set? I feel that cost is a drop in the bucket with the price you’ve stated for the stone..........
As for negotiating after you’ve agreed to a price and have paid a deposit - I don’t know.
but I do know it’s better for you to find all this out now - vs playing ‘what if’ later.

wait, you don't have a final price for everything yet? That's concerning. Because how do you know that you're ok with the final price without knowing what the final price is? Honestly I would not continue with this project, but that's just IMHO. How much was the deposit?

Honestly, I have no idea about the procedure, and his emailed communications are somewhat confusing. I think I'll definitely have to send another follow up to clarify on these issues of pricing and inspection/return. He kind of just pushed me to do the design first which I also understood as different settings can understandably vary in cost. The deposit was 5.5k which also included the hold on another smaller sapphire priced at $900.

 

[lovedogs]

This is very helpful. Thank you. I do tend to feel very uncomfortable trying to 'bargain', but I will deal with those feelings and proceed to calmly negotiate the best price I can at this stage.





Honestly, I have no idea about the procedure, and his emailed communications are somewhat confusing. I think I'll definitely have to send another follow up to clarify on these issues of pricing and inspection/return. He kind of just pushed me to do the design first which I also understood as different settings can understandably vary in cost. The deposit was 5.5k which also included the hold on another smaller sapphire priced at $900.

This is a (sh*tty) procedure that isn't customer friendly (IMHO). If this were me, I would inform him that after doing research you realize that the sapphire is FAR above comparable stones and you are concerned about that. I would either ask him to discount the stone to be a reasonable price or say you want to get your deposit back and cancel everything.

This is just me, but I personally don't trust the vendor in question after seeing his extremely overpriced stones and photography which FLOODS the stones with light, making them look like a different color than they are IRL. So again, I would ask for my deposit back and start over with a new vendor who has more consumer-friendly policies.

But if you don't want to do that (which I understand), then I would negotiate. I am very worried that the final price is going to be outlandish.

 

[HRBenedict]

Thank you for all your very helpful replies! Now that I'm drafting a 'negotiation email', what, if any, numbers should I include as a starting point? A percentage discount? A price per carat that seems reasonable?

 

[peacechick]

Just for the purpose of study, this IG seller frequently sells beautiful baby pink spinels. Just so you know what they look like. Spinels do look a little different from sapphires, they can be a little more metallic in lustre.

Haydenfredgems (@haydenfred_gems) • Instagram photos and videos

17K Followers, 6,814 Following, 1,306 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Haydenfredgems (@haydenfred_gems)

www.instagram.com

No further advice as I agree with voce and rfisher to have a chat with the vendor, establish the budget, suss out what the discount can be especially if you are doing the setting at the same time, and potentially buying another stone.

 

[HRBenedict]

Just for the purpose of study, this IG seller frequently sells beautiful baby pink spinels. Just so you know what they look like. Spinels do look a little different from sapphires, they can be a little more metallic in lustre.

Haydenfredgems (@haydenfred_gems) • Instagram photos and videos

17K Followers, 6,814 Following, 1,306 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Haydenfredgems (@haydenfred_gems)

www.instagram.com

No further advice as I agree with voce and rfisher to have a chat with the vendor, establish the budget, suss out what the discount can be especially if you are doing the setting at the same time, and potentially buying another stone.

I'm really looking more for sapphires rather than spinels, although some of these are really pretty! Thanks for the advice, and I will go to have a chat with vendor asap. Would rather try to salvage this situation as much as possible since we already worked so hard on the custom design.

 

[Rfisher]

I seem to think you’d have a better outcome in negotiating a lower price for the stone (what he quotes for the setting is a whole nother ballgame) by discussing his %incentives he sometimes carry.
I don’t feel it will go well if you start linking to other vendors stones - whether it’s a spot on legit comp or not. Or telling him the pricing for his stone needs to be more reasonable per carat.
And - I’d be silly to think the vendor is not aware of this thread if not already - soon enough. (Because some people here like to alert vendors - whether the vendor participate here or doesn’t - for both goodwill and negative reasons when vendor/projects are discussed and sometimes the vendor isn’t even given full context of what you’ve said) I don’t know if that will ultimately help or hinder your efforts. I could see it going both ways.

best wishes and congrats to you and your intended.

 

[peacechick]

I'm really looking more for sapphires rather than spinels, although some of these are really pretty! Thanks for the advice, and I will go to have a chat with vendor asap. Would rather try to salvage this situation as much as possible since we already worked so hard on the custom design.

Yes, got it! Let’s think more positively, perhaps he wanted to confirm your design first before he gave you a round number for the whole thing... But yes, negotiate now! And do your research on what your custom setting is likely to cost so you have in mind your final tally. You could go to your local jeweller to get quotes.

 

[HRBenedict]

I seem to think you’d have a better outcome in negotiating a lower price for the stone (what he quotes for the setting is a whole nother ballgame) by discussing his %incentives he sometimes carry.
I don’t feel it will go well if you start linking to other vendors stones - whether it’s a spot on legit comp or not. Or telling him the pricing for his stone needs to be more reasonable per carat.
And - I’d be silly to think the vendor is not aware of this thread if not already - soon enough. I don’t know if that will ultimately help or hinder your efforts. I could see it going both ways.

best wishes and congrats to you and your intended.

Thank you! I sent the email already, so I'll see what he says. Hopefully, we can work out something that we're both happy with. I'm not too concerned about him seeing this thread, as I know vendors do inevitably haunt PS, but if he does I really hope he doesn't take offence because I do think his untreated gems are beautiful and well catalogued, even if I can't quite understand the pricing.

 

[voce]

This is very helpful. Thank you. I do tend to feel very uncomfortable trying to 'bargain', but I will deal with those feelings and proceed to calmly negotiate the best price I can at this stage.





Honestly, I have no idea about the procedure, and his emailed communications are somewhat confusing. I think I'll definitely have to send another follow up to clarify on these issues of pricing and inspection/return. He kind of just pushed me to do the design first which I also understood as different settings can understandably vary in cost. The deposit was 5.5k which also included the hold on another smaller sapphire priced at $900.

Thank you for all your very helpful replies! Now that I'm drafting a 'negotiation email', what, if any, numbers should I include as a starting point? A percentage discount? A price per carat that seems reasonable?

Thank you! I sent the email already, so I'll see what he says. Hopefully, we can work out something that we're both happy with. I'm not too concerned about him seeing this thread, as I know vendors do inevitably haunt PS, but if he does I really hope he doesn't take offence because I do think his untreated gems are beautiful and well catalogued, even if I can't quite understand the pricing.

Sorry, I wasn't at the computer when you were drafting your email.

You shouldn't feel bad about negotiating. To me, the difference between bargaining and negotiating is that, bargaining is often just demanding something without any justification other than you want to buy it at that price.

Negotiating is presenting the facts so that both parties can be informed about the comparable alternatives, and then coming to a mutual agreement about what's fair based on the data. I trust that what you are trying to do with him is negotiate.

My personal style is if you're not sure how much he can come down, then you ask him what he's willing to offer as a discount. If his offer comes back as a little lacking and he starts to say why his sapphire is better than the others, then you try to reason with him and say why there isn't such a gap in what the other vendors are offering versus what he offers.

At any rate, I'm just a little alarmed that the communication with him has been confusing. One of the reasons that I enjoy working with Inken at Enhoerning, even if others might think her a little overpriced, is that the communication is always easy. She tries to really understand what I'm looking for when she sources a stone.

 

[ShinyPink]

Just curious if you've received a response?

 

[HRBenedict]

Just curious if you've received a response?

No response from Ed so far, but they did send me another video, which honestly only made my heart sink.

For some reason, I didn't realize it would be so purplish, even if they say the bowtie is just a reflection, and ... Well... I sent another email asking for a refund and cancellation instead of a discount. Hopefully he'll actually respond to that one and give us most of the deposit back.

So I guess it's back to the hunt for us, and lesson learned that pictures are not always reliable. On the other hand, I think I have a better idea of what I want now, so we're trying to look on the bright side. Who knew finding the rock would be harder than finding the man? Lol.