PLEASE help choosing between two radiant cut diamonds!!!

[LadyRadiant]

Hi everyone,

I am another newbie on this forum. I have gained some knowledge reading through various threads but I continue to really really struggle with making a decision between two diamonds. I feel there are some extremely well informed members on here and I would really value any help in deciding. Sorry, they are both radiant cuts which don’t seem to be in favour with most of you who know a lot more about diamonds than I ever will but I am drawn to elongated radiant cuts.

The details of diamond 1 are:

3.5 carat, J, VS2, No Flourescence
Depth: 69.4
Table: 69%
Crown: 14%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick
Measurements 10.1*7.34*5.09mm

ASET:



And details of diamond 2:

2.73 carat, H, SI1, No Flouresence
Depth: 65%
Table: 65%
Crown: info unavailable but much flatter
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick
Measurements: 10.01*7.19*4.67

ASET:


I realise that diamond 2 shows more red but it also shows a LOT more white which I understand is light leakage and undesirable.

I should give a little bit of background. I bought diamond 1 already from JamesAllen.com after some research because it was labelled as “True Hearts”. I later discovered that it was labelled so by mistake but lots of GIA trained JA gemologists reassured me that it was a beautiful diamond. Once I received it, I found it extremely sparkly but the warmth bothered me a tiny little bit (but less and less so as the days go by). I looked online and came across diamond 2. Because of Corona related lockdown, I am still within the return period. I have asked JA customer service on a few occasions and I have had different opinions from different members of staff. Some saying they prefer diamond 1. Others saying, diamond 2. Add to that, I am based in the UK and have already paid taxes to import it. If diamond 2 is indeed better, I would have to go through the hassle of claiming a refund but perhaps that shouldn’t be a deciding factor between the two.

My other concern is that I could go through the exchange process and still see some warmth in the H colour! That would be the worse possible outcome. I also want a diamond that faces up a good size and there is hardly any difference between these two in terms of face up size!

Basically, I am finding it very hard to be objective. I just want someone to tell me what to do. Please help!!!!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

For me this would be the ultimate conunundrum.
I would never buy a low colored diamond in a cut with crushed ice because it will look off white.
But I do not like radiants like the second where the center is making the rest of the stone look dull.
So this is a Sophies Choice for me (if you have ever seen the M Strep classic you know what I mean).

 

[LadyRadiant]

For me this would be the ultimate conunundrum.
I would never buy a low colored diamond in a cut with crushed ice because it will look off white.
But I do not like radiants like the second where the center is making the rest of the stone look dull.
So this is a Sophies Choice for me (if you have ever seen the M Strep classic you know what I mean).

Thank you Garry, any comments, feedback, analysis to help me through this seemingly impossible decision is appreciated.

So, in your opinion, the overall cut of the lower coloured stone is preferable?

 

[tyty333]

Can you provide us the link to these two stones so we can see the videos? Also, what is your budget? There may be other stones worth looking
at.

 

[LadyRadiant]

Can you provide us the link to these two stones so we can see the videos? Also, what is your budget? There may be other stones worth looking
at.

Thank you tyty333. My budget is USD 26k.

Not sure if the links will work because I already bought one and have a hold on another but here they are:

3.51 Carat radiant diamond

This True Hearts TM diamond, 3.51 carat J color vs2 clarity has ideal proportions and a diamond grading report from AGS

www.jamesallen.com

2.73 Carat radiant diamond

This radiant cut 2.73 carat H color si1 clarity has a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

I forgot to mention both have excellent polish and symmetry.

Also, this stone is for an engagement ring upgrade so I want the look of a ‘large’ stone obviously without sacrificing on cut. I also much prefer an elongated radiant rather than a square one. From what I have read, the square ones are more likely to perform better but I am drawn to the rectangular outline.

Thank you for all responses.

 

[gregchang35]

would you mind sharing what you have currently? colour and size etc? just to guage what you are upgrading from?

i understand your comment about colour in a J stone. some ppl see it and others dont. I am colour sensitive to certain stones and cut.

the fact is: the J colour bothers you.

When you get a chance to go to a local store (post covd19), ask if they have any F/G/H radiant stones for you to look at. they dont usually carry large sizes, but see if they have any 1 cts to show you. What you also want to be clear about is that you are just doing research and trying to get an understanding of YOUR colour tolerances. Use your current ring as a discussion tool. If they have to call a stone in for you, it may mean that you have to put a deposit down, so ask that question. hopefully, they have a few FGH coloured stone around the 1ct mark to show you.

if you can see a tint in a 1ct radiant, then you will def see a colour in a 2ct.

My perception and i am not a radiant person or a modern cut person- but i do appreciate stones for all that they are.

based on the 2 stones' video, i prefer the H stone. it has less tint.
the H has more fire. as the stone moves around on that video, it seems to turn on and off more. more periods of light and shade on each pavilion.

the J doesn't do it as much, but it is brighter (reflects light more often), is how i woudl describe it... And it is what is seen on the ASET.

i hope that helps. there are plenty of other PSers that are fantastic at finding stones, like @tyty333
hopefully she can find some for you to review

i did find one from a quick look. but is it big enough for what you are after? hence needing to know what you have currently...

2.40 Carat radiant diamond

This radiant cut 2.4 carat F color vs1 clarity has a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

 

[flyingpig]

Clear winner is the 2.73 H SI1. Here is why.

1. The difference in length and width is only 0.09 and 0.15mm
2. The H is whiter and brighter and lively.

It is going to be harsh, but the J is cut to simply achieve the 3.5 carat mark. Look at the girdle and pavilion and crown just below/ above it from the side. It is THICK, not contributing anyting to spread or light performance. It was deliberately cut to fool customers.

Yes, I would go thru hassle of reclaiming sales taxes and duties and get a better one.

 

[tyty333]

So, it is quite the tradeoff between these two stones. The 2.73 has a wide area of nice facets through the center that should give you some nice big
flashes. However, outside of that area it will be not as bright and maybe not quite as sparkly as your current stone. Did you try shrinking the videos
down to a smaller size and seeing how they return light?

I'm not finding anything at JA, BN or Adimore that is that size (LxW) and in budget that has any better light return.

Considering that you dont like the color in the J I think it would be worth seeing how you feel about the 2.73.

For me, I prefer some bigger flashes and not all little sparkles so the 2.73 would be my choice between the two. Many colored
diamonds are cut in the radiant shape because they tend to entrap color which is good for a colored stone and not so good
for a white diamond.

 

[LadyRadiant]

Clear winner is the 2.73 H SI1. Here is why.

1. The difference in length and width is only 0.09 and 0.15mm
2. The H is whiter and brighter and lively.

It is going to be harsh, but the J is cut to simply achieve the 3.5 carat mark. Look at the girdle and pavilion and crown just below/ above it from the side. It is THICK, not contributing anyting to spread or light performance. It was deliberately cut to fool customers.

Yes, I would go thru hassle of reclaiming sales taxes and duties and get a better one.

would you mind sharing what you have currently? colour and size etc? just to guage what you are upgrading from?

i understand your comment about colour in a J stone. some ppl see it and others dont. I am colour sensitive to certain stones and cut.

the fact is: the J colour bothers you.

When you get a chance to go to a local store (post covd19), ask if they have any F/G/H radiant stones for you to look at. they dont usually carry large sizes, but see if they have any 1 cts to show you. What you also want to be clear about is that you are just doing research and trying to get an understanding of YOUR colour tolerances. Use your current ring as a discussion tool. If they have to call a stone in for you, it may mean that you have to put a deposit down, so ask that question. hopefully, they have a few FGH coloured stone around the 1ct mark to show you.

if you can see a tint in a 1ct radiant, then you will def see a colour in a 2ct.

My perception and i am not a radiant person or a modern cut person- but i do appreciate stones for all that they are.

based on the 2 stones' video, i prefer the H stone. it has less tint.
the H has more fire. as the stone moves around on that video, it seems to turn on and off more. more periods of light and shade on each pavilion.

the J doesn't do it as much, but it is brighter (reflects light more often), is how i woudl describe it... And it is what is seen on the ASET.

i hope that helps. there are plenty of other PSers that are fantastic at finding stones, like @tyty333
hopefully she can find some for you to review

i did find one from a quick look. but is it big enough for what you are after? hence needing to know what you have currently...

2.40 Carat radiant diamond

This radiant cut 2.4 carat F color vs1 clarity has a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

Thank you GregChang35 for being so comprehensive! I currently have a 1.5 carat, F VVS2...bought just for those characteristics without regard to cut after one visit to only one vendor who showed us two stones (don’t ask It does not sparkle at all and just doesn’t represent who I am. I only wore it for two years or so and stopped once I had my now toddler son.

Before I bought the J coloured stone recently, I actually went to physical stores pre lockdown and looked at several 3 carat LOOSE radiants in a J colour and didn’t see any noticeable tint. I think I do now because it has been set in a pave setting which I obsolutely love and would not want to change to a solitaire setting. I would rather change the centre diamond.

It helps a lot that you so clearly prefer the H because I just want a ‘bigger’ diamond than the one you so kindly looked up for me. It is so kind of members on here that people will actually take the time to do some research for you. I think maybe my expectations are a little out of alignment with my budget and that has been downfall!

 

[LadyRadiant]

Clear winner is the 2.73 H SI1. Here is why.

1. The difference in length and width is only 0.09 and 0.15mm
2. The H is whiter and brighter and lively.

It is going to be harsh, but the J is cut to simply achieve the 3.5 carat mark. Look at the girdle and pavilion and crown just below/ above it from the side. It is THICK, not contributing anyting to spread or light performance. It was deliberately cut to fool customers.

Yes, I would go thru hassle of reclaiming sales taxes and duties and get a better one.

Sorry clicked reply to you earlier flyingpig when I was replying to gregchang35...still trying to get used to this interface!

You also seem to be in agreement with some other members so there seems to be a clear winner. Does it change any of your views if I tell you that I actually PREFER the ‘crushed ice’, pinfire sparkle rather than the broad chunky flashes??? I should have probably mentioned that before. Will the H colour one still do that in the flesh????

 

[LadyRadiant]

So, it is quite the tradeoff between these two stones. The 2.73 has a wide area of nice facets through the center that should give you some nice big
flashes. However, outside of that area it will be not as bright and maybe not quite as sparkly as your current stone. Did you try shrinking the videos
down to a smaller size and seeing how they return light?

I'm not finding anything at JA, BN or Adimore that is that size (LxW) and in budget that has any better light return.

Considering that you dont like the color in the J I think it would be worth seeing how you feel about the 2.73.

For me, I prefer some bigger flashes and not all little sparkles so the 2.73 would be my choice between the two. Many colored
diamonds are cut in the radiant shape because they tend to entrap color which is good for a colored stone and not so good
for a white diamond.

Thank you tyty333. I did shrink the videos down to see if I could still see that black crystal on the H colour table because a customer service representative at JamesAllen had told me that it was NOT eye clean. I couldn’t see the crystal when the video was shrunk down so I decided that it was eye clean. At the time, I wasn’t focusing on light return but will have a look now.

Seems like we are all leaning towards the H colour one. It is reassuring that at least there is consensus amongst many of you.

 

[LadyRadiant]

would you mind sharing what you have currently? colour and size etc? just to guage what you are upgrading from?

i understand your comment about colour in a J stone. some ppl see it and others dont. I am colour sensitive to certain stones and cut.

the fact is: the J colour bothers you.

When you get a chance to go to a local store (post covd19), ask if they have any F/G/H radiant stones for you to look at. they dont usually carry large sizes, but see if they have any 1 cts to show you. What you also want to be clear about is that you are just doing research and trying to get an understanding of YOUR colour tolerances. Use your current ring as a discussion tool. If they have to call a stone in for you, it may mean that you have to put a deposit down, so ask that question. hopefully, they have a few FGH coloured stone around the 1ct mark to show you.

if you can see a tint in a 1ct radiant, then you will def see a colour in a 2ct.

My perception and i am not a radiant person or a modern cut person- but i do appreciate stones for all that they are.

based on the 2 stones' video, i prefer the H stone. it has less tint.
the H has more fire. as the stone moves around on that video, it seems to turn on and off more. more periods of light and shade on each pavilion.

the J doesn't do it as much, but it is brighter (reflects light more often), is how i woudl describe it... And it is what is seen on the ASET.

i hope that helps. there are plenty of other PSers that are fantastic at finding stones, like @tyty333
hopefully she can find some for you to review

i did find one from a quick look. but is it big enough for what you are after? hence needing to know what you have currently...

2.40 Carat radiant diamond

This radiant cut 2.4 carat F color vs1 clarity has a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

[/

Thank you GregChang35 for being so comprehensive! I currently have a 1.5 carat, F VVS2...bought just for those characteristics without regard to cut after one visit to only one vendor who showed us two stones (don’t ask It does not sparkle at all and just doesn’t represent who I am. I only wore it for two years or so and stopped once I had my now toddler son.

Before I bought the J coloured stone recently, I actually went to physical stores pre lockdown and looked at several 3 carat LOOSE radiants in a J colour and didn’t see any noticeable tint. I think I do now because it has been set in a pave setting which I obsolutely love and would not want to change to a solitaire setting. I would rather change the centre diamond.

It helps a lot that you so clearly prefer the H because I just want a ‘bigger’ diamond than the one you so kindly looked up for me. It is so kind of members on here that people will actually take the time to do some research for you. I think maybe my expectations are a little out of alignment with my budget and that has been downfall!

Sorry gregchang35, I forgot to say the original diamond is a round brilliant.

 

[flyingpig]

Sorry clicked reply to you earlier flyingpig when I was replying to gregchang35...still trying to get used to this interface!

You also seem to be in agreement with some other members so there seems to be a clear winner. Does it change any of your views if I tell you that I actually PREFER the ‘crushed ice’, pinfire sparkle rather than the broad chunky flashes??? I should have probably mentioned that before. Will the H colour one still do that in the flesh????

I understand crushed ice can be appealing and elongated cuts are not good at light return.
My biggest problem is the small spread considering the carat weight and (the lack of) craftmanship went into cutting this particular stone. It is very obvious to see what the cutter had in his mind.
Having that said, and I did some searching, if the stone was under 26k USD, I think it is a decent deal. So, if you like the appearance of the J, I do not know... Tough call. I can see why you went for the J considering the price, carat weight, and your pref.

 

[LadyRadiant]

I understand crushed ice can be appealing and elongated cuts are not good at light return.
My biggest problem is the small spread considering the carat weight and (the lack of) craftmanship went into cutting this particular stone. It is very obvious to see what the cutter had in his mind.
Having that said, and I did some searching, if the stone was under 26k USD, I think it is a decent deal. So, if you like the appearance of the J, I do not know... Tough call. I can see why you went for the J considering the price, carat weight, and your pref.

I agree flyingpig. You are right. It does not look it’s weight but I paid USD 23k for it so less than what I would have paid for a 3 carat...I believe. I am not in the industry and cannot value these things very well but based on limited research, it seemed like a decent deal. (I believe it does have the spread for a 3 carat though???).

Obviously I don’t want to sacrifice on cut for that reason. I have only a smaller round brilliant so have no benchmark but I find it so sparkly in the flesh. Could it be a poor cut and still sparkle or is it just my uneducated eye?

The colour does bother me in some lights. It looks fairly white in most lighting but has a yellow tint when the room has very little lighting....”low ambient lighting”? But even when it’s quite dark, I can see it exhibit pinfire sparkle all over the stone...is that possible? (I am trying not to use technical terms because they might mean something other than I believe they mean). And I should add, the only reason the tint bothers me is because it’s not ‘meant’ to be desirable. Personally, if it weren’t for widely held belief that whiter is better, I would have actually liked the tint.

I have until lockdown is lifted to return it so I do have some time but I keep going back and forth in my mind. Do you think the H colour stone would still exhibit some smaller sparkle in the quadrants that look quite dead in the ASET?

 

[LadyRadiant]

So, it is quite the tradeoff between these two stones. The 2.73 has a wide area of nice facets through the center that should give you some nice big
flashes. However, outside of that area it will be not as bright and maybe not quite as sparkly as your current stone. Did you try shrinking the videos
down to a smaller size and seeing how they return light?

I'm not finding anything at JA, BN or Adimore that is that size (LxW) and in budget that has any better light return.

Considering that you dont like the color in the J I think it would be worth seeing how you feel about the 2.73.

For me, I prefer some bigger flashes and not all little sparkles so the 2.73 would be my choice between the two. Many colored
diamonds are cut in the radiant shape because they tend to entrap color which is good for a colored stone and not so good
for a white diamond.

@tyty333 I did reduce the video to a smaller size and overall the H seemed to still give good light return from what I could see with my untrained eye.

Also, thank you for having a look for a stone for me online. Does it help if I could increase my budget to USD 30k? I should draw the line there because I then have to pay more than 20% in taxes to import it in to the UK.