PLEASE Help - GIA report Has Argyle inscription # but no inscription on diamond!

[yssie]

What if the diamond is damaged right now, and the reports don’t reflect the current condition of the stone?

What if the diamond is lost or damaged during the buyer’s inspection?

What if the diamond is lost or damaged during shipping?

What is a fair asking price?

What taxes will you owe and how will you declare and pay them?

This is 100% a situation that demands professional assistance. @LilAlex is spot on, Uncle Sam does not care that all you want to do is buy a house closer to your kids/grandkids. Contact Neil Beaty and ask for help; he posts on PS as denverappraiser. He may be able to help directly, or may have recommendations in your country.

 

[Brigid]

thank you Brigid! The Argyle Purple Pinks are such a pretty color. I fell in love with mine! Let me know if you want to add a Purple Pink to your collection . The relief i am still feeling from the inscription being verified is so immense lol. I would love to see a picture of the diamond you did choose out of all those Argyles

Fabulous news, I’m excited for you & what your beautiful pink Argyle affords you to do.
We have a vivid pink Argyle in the family (my mother) but I would still buy yours in a heartbeat!
I will share a photo of my C4 Argyle, it’s a beautiful diamond I adore it.
From your posts Pink Diamond Lover you seem very honest & open, I don’t believe you need to answer some of the questions posted.
You have made a very astute purchase & I’m sure you will continue to make astute decisions on where, what & how this diamond affords you the direction you are seeking.
Many blessings!

 

[Brigid]

**edited by moderator, not allowed**

Thanks for the offer, I’m not in the market for buying diamonds - I have other priorities/interests since COVID.

 

[pink diamond lover]

No problem. I still would love to see a picture of your diamond please .

 

[kenny]

There's a little problem with us promoting our personal baubles for sale on Pricescope.
Also, PS has no private messaging system and (for security reasons on a diamond forum) we are not allowed to reveal our personal contact info here, making a sale impossible.
But there is a way around this ... keep reading ...

At the very bottom of this screen click on Forum Policy, with the terms we all agreed to when we registered at Pricescope.

Forum Policies

Updated October 3rd, 2017 for clarity) The forum is a cooperative endeavor. To maintain a community conducive to quality, members must agree to the following terms before using this system. By using this messaging system, you agree to abide by the following simple common sense rules as well as...

www.pricescope.com

The owners do not want PS to become a place where everyone is selling things in their posts.
PS could quickly turn into a forum bursting with annoying spam.
Plus, because diamonds are so valuable, there is the security issue and I'm sure PS does not want to be used by criminals or incur liability.

But PS does have forum called "Preloved PS Jewels".
Read the 3 threads pinned at the top from Ella, our moderator.

Preloved PS Jewels

Sometimes, a piece just needs a new home or you find yourself looking for something unique. Why not shop within the community? Be sure to read the detailed PS rules before listing!

www.pricescope.com

There are other websites, not affiliated with PS, for private jewelry sales between people who are not in the "trade".
One is https://loupetroop.com/listings/loose-stones
Another is https://www.idonowidont.com

There are probably others.
If anyone knows of them please post them in this thread.

I think PS requires you to list your stone at one of these websites, then you're allowed to post a link to it in the Pre Loved Forum.
The entire transaction must occur on the other website.

I may have this wrong, since I've never sold or bought this way.
If I'm wrong I request a PS member correct me.

 

[pink diamond lover]

Thanks again Kenny for more very valuable information. I am not even sure that i want to sell it right now now lol. I will check out these links you have given me!

 

[Bron357]

Do check with an accountant as to what the tax ramifications are upon sale at a profit over purchase price. Every Country has taxes and ignorance is not considered a valid excuse.
If you are in Canada, like Australia, it appears that 50% of the profit amount is included in your next tax return after sale and you pay tax according to your other income.
In Australia we are entitled to indexation at CPI of the purchase price before the “profit” is determined.
For eg.
Say your profit (after any indexation etc) is $70,000. Half that amount, $35,000, is added to your income total for the year. You then pay tax at your marginal rate ie your marginal rate is 40%, you pay 40% of $35,000 or $14,000 to the Tax Man!
As for selling privately, I don’t recommend it for such a valuable gemstone.
Certainly you might find a private buyer, but unless paid by bank or wire transfer before you post most other payment methods have “recourse” ie a claim back or dispute is possible. Also, a private buyer will be just as nervous/ concerned as you ie that you mightn’t post it to them or it might not be as described.
You will pay commission / fees to use an appropriate broker or Auction House but you will have security in terms of payment.
As for value going forward, past performance is not a predictor of future performance.
Your diamond while Arygle, is small, included and not top colour. It certainly is rare and desirable but it’s not in the realm of tender pink diamonds which attract the BIG money and player.
Diamonds are a luxury item, their popularity can and does “wax and wane”. With the advent of lab diamonds in pink tones, it becomes harder for regular people to justify a huge financial commitment to a “natural pink pretty” when the “lab pink pretty” can be obtained for a fraction of the price.
That’s the risk with gemstone investment.

 

[kenny]

A FWIW post ...

Pink Diamond Lover, I noticed the comment, "Internal Graining not show" on your GIA report.
My pink's GIA report has the same comment so I googled internal graining and couldn't find much info, let alone a pic.
So I inspected mine carefully and spotted it, and took the below pic.

I was surprised how pronounced it was when looking into either of the short sides because looking into the top it's 100% invisible.
It looks like thin layers of dark pink running through a transparent pink lollypop.

I suspect the cutter planned the orientation of the stone putting the strong pink graining lines in the diagonal with respect to the top.
That results in the strongest color saturation when viewed from the top - which is the way the way GIA grades color in FCDs.
(In D-Z diamonds it grades color looking into the pavilion.)

I wonder whether you can see the graining in yours.

 

[LilAlex]

^ I would definitely mount it with the crown pointing up then.

Does the color-zoning go all the way through the stone? Is the pattern the same from the other short end?

Are there really only two facets on each long side?

 

[kenny]

^ I would definitely mount it with the crown pointing up then.

Does the color-zoning go all the way through the stone? Is the pattern the same from the other short end?

Are there really only two facets on each long side?

" I would definitely mount it with the crown pointing up then."

Of course!
Anyone mounting it would set it the usual way with the table up not culet up.
I bought it long ago, maybe 12 years, and it's still loose and I doubt I'll ever set it.
Again, graining is invisible in the top view.

"Does the color-zoning go all the way through the stone? Is the pattern the same from the other short end?"

Color zoning is something else.
This is graining.

If I have the time when I get home I can look at the other end of the stone, but IIRC the answer is yes.

"Are there really only two facets on each long side?"

Huh?
You wrote, "Two facets on each long side." ???
I don't know what you mean.
The cut is just regular old emerald.

The graining is not an inclusion or clarity issue.
GIA graded it VVS1 for this circled natural on the girdle.
If I ever sell it I might get this polished off to get an IF or F clarity grade.



Here's a better pic of natural on girdle ...

 

[bright&shiny]

I finally have a measurement.
The length of the corner facet of my emerald cut is 0.024".
Eyeballing the inscription I'd say it takes up, oh, say, 87% of that facet.
So, 0.024" x 0.87 = 0.021"
Argyle's inscription, including their logo, is 0.021 inches long.

But how wide is a prong?

I have only one old diamond ring with prongs.
So, under my 4 " LED magnifier using a high quality Swiss-made calipers I measured the diameter (width) of a prong.
It was 0.040".

So the entire Argyle inscription can easily fit under a prong.
Actually, TWO inscriptions would nearly fit.

Of course not all prongs are the same diameter, but since my inscription is only half the length of my prong I stand by my measurements and arithmetic and it's virtually certain that your laser inscription is under a prong.

You are a rock star!

 

[LilAlex]

^ i just meant that there are only two courses of step-cuts on the pavilion. I am used to 3 - 5, but I am a colored-stone person.

Vis-a-vis "color-zoning" vs "graining," the image is identical to color-zoning in sapphires -- parallel "planes" of color that must be carefully factored in when orienting the facets. Maybe it's too pejorative-sounding for the rarefied colored diamond world! Like "orange roughy" instead of slimehead.

 

[kenny]

^ i just meant that there are only two courses of step-cuts on the pavilion. I am used to 3 - 5, but I am a colored-stone person.

Vis-a-vis "color-zoning" vs "graining," the image is identical to color-zoning in sapphires -- parallel "planes" of color that must be carefully factored in when orienting the facets. Maybe it's too pejorative-sounding for the rarefied colored diamond world! Like "orange roughy" instead of slimehead.

Oh, I understand now.
Yes, it has only 2 rows of pavilion facets, and 2 rows of crown facets instead of the usual 3 each.
Good catch.
I never thought to count the rows.
So each side has 5 rows of facets, 2 on pavilion, 2 on crown, and 1 for the girdle.

Maybe they cut it with fewer facets to save weight or maximize color ... you know, follow the money and all.
I will say (and 5 instead of 7 rows per side explains it) that it has larger flashes of color than I'd expect from such a small emerald cut.
Two fewer side facets would explain why.

You may be right about the zoning.
That's above my 'pay grade'.

I thought zoning was when looking on axis at the top of a colored stone, seeing areas where the saturation of color varies, not the actual lines.
I probably need to learn more before making claims.

 

[LilAlex]

I thought zoning was when looking on axis at the top of the stone, seeing areas where the saturation of color varies, not the actual lines.

I think you are also right; I have heard it both ways. The gross inhomogeneity is pretty uncommon in sapphire ("parti-color," which waxes and wanes in popularity here) whereas the "layering" effect is very common.

These screenshots are both from GIA's 2018 "Factors in Colored Stones that Interact to Affect Value." Tourmaline (of course) is in the top photo and sapphire in the bottom. In a sapphire, the effect in the lower photo can create the appearance of the top photo to a lesser degree, if the table is oblique to the (alternating) planes of color and those planes with and without color are quite deep.

 

[kenny]

From my understanding P3 on an Argyle Certificate is clarity not color. Color is graded from 9-1. On my GIA report the color is Fancy Intense Purplish Pink. On copy of Argyle certificate it is color coded as 6PP which i believe is very similar with my limited knowledge. On GIA clarity is SI2 on Argyle it is P1. Visual appraisal i had done matches GIA perfectly because they use same grading system.
If GIA said your diamond was VVS1 Fancy Deep Purplish Pink I would expect the Argyle would have probably rated your stone a 7PP or maybe even 8PP (9 being deepest color and most valuable) PP stand for Purplish Pink. If they graded it as pure pink it would instead be 7P or 8P. When the Letter is first and number after i understood they were talking about clarity.

Sorry to drag this thread out, but I made a mistake that lead to a misunderstanding by the OP that I should clear up for her and future readers.
PS posts live forever and many become a valuable reference for future google searches.
Accuracy matters.

In post #9 I incorrectly wrote that Argyle graded my pink's color P3.
I should have written 3P.
Opps, Sorry!
My mistake led to Pink Diamond Lover's post, quoted above.

When Pink Diamond Lover saw I called my stone's color P3 she wrote, "From my understanding P3 on an Argyle Certificate is clarity not color. "
She's right.
P3 IS a clarity grade not color grade ... but read on ...

This misunderstanding is related to the European clarity grading convention that uses P1, P2, and P3 as clarity grades.
This differs from the American clarity-grading convention of F, IF, VVS1 ... to I2.
Then Argyle itself uses 1P, 2P, 3P etc. to describe color saturation.
Oye!

Using P1, P2, P3 for clarity grading is explained in the below quote from this source ...

WHAT IS PIQUE CLARITY? – Jewelry Secrets

www.jewelry-secrets.com

P1, P2 and P3?​

Piqué clarity (often abbreviated as P, or PK in Europe) is a pretty common clarity grade.
In fact, Piqué clarity is one of the largest clarity grades there is.
Piqué clarity is made up of 3 clarity grades: P1, P2 and P3.

So what is Piqué clarity?​

P clarity, or Piqué clarity, is the European term for “imperfect“. It’s actually a French name meaning “mark“, “blemish“, or “pricked“.
And that’s because in Piqué clarity, these marks or blemishes (inclusions), are visible. Visible to the bare eye, without the use of a microscope or a 10x jeweler’s loupe. You can see the flaws just by looking at the diamond, and often, these flaws and imperfections are huge.

3 Piqué clarity grades​

There are 3 clarity grades in all with Piqué: P1 (Piqué 1, or 1st Piqué), P2 (Piqué 2, or 2nd Piqué), and P3 (Piqué 3, or 3rd Piqué)…
P1 is the highest of the bunch, then P2, followed by P3 at the bottom of the bucket (P3 is the lowest clarity grade there is).

[End of quote]

Next Clarification ...
Pink Diamond Lover, with all due respect, you have the Argyle number vs. color saturation backwards.
On Argyle's chart below the number gets lower as the color saturation gets stronger, not the other way around.

 

[Nosean]

There are many old stock Argyle diamonds about without laser inscription. GIA could have verified the stone against an Argyle cert by confirming the individual diamond characteristics. While that wouldn’t be the case with any old diamond it could happen with Argyle pinks as they are so rare and valuable. OP said this diamond cost her life savings so it’s not a run of the mill stone.

Most pink* (the whole color range) diamonds from Argyle have no Argyle report and number.

They are mostly easy to identify. In my personal opinion I would avoid purchasing a pink* diamond with an Argyle report and paying a much higher price compared to a similar (Argyle) diamond with an GIA or other lab report.

 

[Nosean]

Maybe helpful - often you can see the number (Argyle, GIA or others) as a reflections. Check the stone with a loupe.

 

[Nosean]

0.59 carat, Fancy Intense Purplish Pink Diamond, Radiant Shape, I1 Clarity, GIA, SKU PLB289

0.59ct Fancy Intense Purplish Pink. A magnificent Radiant cut, Argyle, Fancy Intense Purplish Pink diamond with a super color saturation. The stone has a great make, good luster and a I1 clarity. Measurement:5.12x4.46x2.95mm. For more information about this item please contact our customer...

www.leibish.com

In the last picture you see only the Argyle „A“ and no number. No Argyle report.
By the way a fine example for the typical wavy grainning.

 

[Nosean]

No I can't. The Inscription was put on my the Argyle diamond mine to validate that it is an Argyle diamond. The mine has shut down and all you can get is duplicates. Without the inscription on the ring i am being told it can't be validated!

Pure marketing to create a brand. And selling them much higher.

For example you can find a find a blue sapphire with a superb Kashmir look in Kashmir, in Madagascar, in Sri Lanka and Burma too.

Kashmir is a premium so in the case it makes sense to have a report from a top lab.

A fine Hauyne is always from Eifel district in Germany, Benitoite is always from Dallas Gem mine and Junilla in California, Gem red Beryl always from Wah Wah Mountain in Utah.

Nobody needs a special report to identify were it was mined.

 

[kenny]

... In my personal opinion I would avoid purchasing a pink* diamond with an Argyle report and paying a much higher price compared to a similar (Argyle) diamond with an GIA or other lab report.

That's totally reasonable and understandable.
Shoppers vary and some must have a brand, like Tiffany, and now Argyle.

When I bought mine over 10 years ago I didn't know much about Argyle as a fancy brand.
I just fell in love with the stone itself, its color and cut.
I also never minded paying extra for VVS clarity for the mind-clean thing.
Others are happy with eye clean instead of paying more for Very Very mind clean stones.
Size is usually my least important C.

 

[Nosean]

I LOVE the diamonds from Argyle - the HGBV and pink range.

They are gemological unique - not only beautiful.

I agree with Kenny - the size is not important in FCDs.

Buy a nice diamond and not a paper.

 

[Nosean]

I am not a diamond collector, so please excuse my ignorance. Does a pink diamond being from the Argyle mine greatly increase its value? There's such a premium for pink diamonds, that I'm surprised anyone would care exactly which mine is comes from or that a lack of inscription would impede a sale to the right buyer. If an Australian origin is the key to selling the stone at a particular price point, and labs cannot determine mine location (are we sure of that?), then it sounds like that's going to be an issue you may need to accept. Otherwise, I suggest having it recertified (sans any inscription) and continue to offer it for sale. If you reasonably believe it was sourced from the Argyle deposit, mention that in the listing. All things being equal (concerning quality), you should still be able to make a killing on that stone! So sorry for the ordeal... I hope you find peace of mind with the stone and make a great sale!

Around 95 percent of all pink diamonds were mined in Argyle.

Rarely pink and red are mined in Brazil - they are so extremely rare that they should get a premium and not Argyle.

Larger Pink stones are IIa (without nitrogen) and have a lighter color - Argyle pink are never larger than 5 ct.

Russian purple pinks are different and mostly easily to separate from the warmer colored australian diamond - sharp glide planes versus wavy graining.

So it is quite easy for a lab to tell with origin.

The problem imo is that the companies specialized in second market for Argyle diamonds in high color quality want the Argyle report and inscription course they need they higher prices to make profit. The mined diamonds are almost all still exist. And many will be available in the second market In the future.

Again, they are so easy to identify that there is no need for an Argyle report. A GIA report with medium to strong blue fluorescence - in the comment graining is perfect.

Many Argyle diamond offered from australian companies have a low color quality and are really overpriced.

Just my opinion…

 

[Autumn in New England]

Around 95 percent of all pink diamonds were mined in Argyle.

Rarely pink and red are mined in Brazil - they are so extremely rare that they should get a premium and not Argyle.

Larger Pink stones are IIa (without nitrogen) and have a lighter color - Argyle pink are never larger than 5 ct.

Russian purple pinks are different and mostly easily to separate from the warmer colored australian diamond - sharp glide planes versus wavy graining.

So it is quite easy for a lab to tell with origin.

The problem imo is that the companies specialized in second market for Argyle diamonds in high color quality want the Argyle report and inscription course they need they higher prices to make profit. The mined diamonds are almost all still exist. And many will be available in the second market In the future.

Again, they are so easy to identify that there is no need for an Argyle report. A GIA report with medium to strong blue fluorescence - in the comment graining is perfect.

Many Argyle diamond offered from australian companies have a low color quality and are really overpriced.

Just my opinion…

Interesting! Thank you for the info!!

 

[Nosean]

A FWIW post ...

Pink Diamond Lover, I noticed the comment, "Internal Graining not show" on your GIA report.
My pink's GIA report has the same comment so I googled internal graining and couldn't find much info, let alone a pic.
So I inspected mine carefully and spotted it, and took the below pic.

I was surprised how pronounced it was when looking into either of the short sides because looking into the top it's 100% invisible.
It looks like thin layers of dark pink running through a transparent pink lollypop.

I suspect the cutter planned the orientation of the stone putting the strong pink graining lines in the diagonal with respect to the top.
That results in the strongest color saturation when viewed from the top - which is the way the way GIA grades color in FCDs.
(In D-Z diamonds it grades color looking into the pavilion.)

Three different types of pink diamond. They wavy graining in Argyle and the slip planes in the russian ones are the result of plastic deformation.

Important to verify the origin.

I wonder whether you can see the graining in yours.

View attachment 883346

 

[JewelledEscalators]

I'm so glad that this had a happy ending, and also glad that the OP didn't suddenly disappear at the end, never to update us to what happened - I hate it when that happens

 

[Chas23]

It's not uncommon for an inscription to be wiped off from jewelry cleaner/steam machine. It could have had it on there at one point and got washed off. I had one situation that I had a diamond certified, they wrote down that the inscription was on the diamond but forgot to actually put it on. So there are 2 possible explanations here. I would have it sent back to GIA for sure.

Charles C.
Good Old Gold, Inc.

 

[yssie]

It's not uncommon for an inscription to be wiped off from jewelry cleaner/steam machine. It could have had it on there at one point and got washed off. I had one situation that I had a diamond certified, they wrote down that the inscription was on the diamond but forgot to actually put it on. So there are 2 possible explanations here. I would have it sent back to GIA for sure.

Charles C.
Good Old Gold, Inc.

Are you suggesting that the engraving on a diamond can be eliminated by routine cleaning with water, within a single person's lifetime?

(Because that would be nonsensical.)

 

[pinkjewel]

Are you suggesting that the engraving on a diamond can be eliminated by routine cleaning with water, within a single person's lifetime?

(Because that would be nonsensical.)

LOL- you tell it like it is Yssie. Actually that wasn't the only thing that didn't make sense to me either. Telling her that GIA could inscribe the Argyle inscription was another one. I was thinking of quoting this in that "other" thread about things salespeople say...

 

[pink diamond lover]

" I would definitely mount it with the crown pointing up then."

Of course!
Anyone mounting it would set it the usual way with the table up not culet up.
I bought it long ago, maybe 12 years, and it's still loose and I doubt I'll ever set it.
Again, graining is invisible in the top view.

"Does the color-zoning go all the way through the stone? Is the pattern the same from the other short end?"

Color zoning is something else.
This is graining.

If I have the time when I get home I can look at the other end of the stone, but IIRC the answer is yes.

"Are there really only two facets on each long side?"

Huh?
You wrote, "Two facets on each long side." ???
I don't know what you mean.
The cut is just regular old emerald.

The graining is not an inclusion or clarity issue.
GIA graded it VVS1 for this circled natural on the girdle.
If I ever sell it I might get this polished off to get an IF or F clarity grade.



Here's a better pic of natural on girdle ...

That is so cool!

 

[pink diamond lover]

Oh, I understand now.
Yes, it has only 2 rows of pavilion facets, and 2 rows of crown facets instead of the usual 3 each.
Good catch.
I never thought to count the rows.
So each side has 5 rows of facets, 2 on pavilion, 2 on crown, and 1 for the girdle.

Maybe they cut it with fewer facets to save weight or maximize color ... you know, follow the money and all.
I will say (and 5 instead of 7 rows per side explains it) that it has larger flashes of color than I'd expect from such a small emerald cut.
Two fewer side facets would explain why.

You may be right about the zoning.
That's above my 'pay grade'.

I thought zoning was when looking on axis at the top of a colored stone, seeing areas where the saturation of color varies, not the actual lines.
I probably need to learn more before making claims.

Huh?? lol.