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Possible Fake EGL Certificate and Diamond

A

ASH008

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
16
Hello Everyone,

I'm very new to all of this, and would greatly appreciate some help. The much shorter version of my problem is that I recently purchased what was reportedly an EGL certified diamond (1.53 carat). If helpful to know, the certificate # is AA 408338. After officially receiving the certificate and trying to look it up on the EGL International site, I realized that there are usually supposed to be 10 digits (as you can see, mine has only 6 digits after the "AA"). So far I have yet to hear from EGL after trying to contact them. I also don't know which lab it may have come from, and if the "AA" in the beginning of the cert # should identify this. If I don't have a valid diamond with specs that are within a certain range of the certificate (I understand that there is certain leniency, but I mean if the specs of my actual diamond vs. what is said on the certificate are WAY off), and/or this isn't an actual valid EGL diamond, then what can I do? I do have everything completely written out on the sales receipt.

Thank you very much in advance to any and all that reply and provide your much appreciated feedback!!

Brian
 
Can you scan the certificate and post it in the thread?
 
Hi, and thank you so much for such a quick reply. I'm not able to scan it, but is there a way to maybe take a picture of it from my phone and then upload it through an attachment or something?

Brian
 
At this point, the MOST important words on your bill of sale should be "Money Back Guarantee"

If it says "no Refunds" you've most likely got a problem if you want an accurately graded diamond.
 
Thanks, and it does say no refunds on the receipt. I think I just figured out how to upload the certificate images:

diamond_certificate.jpg

diamond_certificate_2.jpg
 
Why do you think the report and the diamond may be fake?

You can pay a professional independent appraiser who has a Graduate Gemologist certificate/degree from GIA, who does not buy and sell diamonds, to evaluate it.

Here is a resource for finding an appraiser. https://www.pricescope.com/appraisers
 
Though I feel it LOOKS fairly legit, the reason of doubt comes from a combination of not being able to track it through EGL, plus the fact that the guy I bought it from straight up lied big time on the first diamond that I purchased from him before I swapped it out for this one. Basically, I was initially told by the store owner that the first ring I bought (non-certified) was a VVS1, excellent cut, G color, and 1.5 carat diamond. After leaving a deposit that day, I picked it up a few weeks later, only to later realize that I was given see a diamond with a few black spots that could be seen with the naked eye. There wasn't any written proof on the receipt that it was supposed to be a VVS1/G color/excellent cut (all the receipt said was 1.5 carat) and I was basically stuck with no leg to stand on. I swapped it out for this new diamond that I'm posting about, but still have some doubts considering what happened with the first diamond.

Also, I know just how many dreadfully painful mistakes I've made along the way thus far, including the fact that I went to this guy and trusted him since it is someone that a family member of mine buys from.

Brian
 
Thanks Kenny, and I'll definitely look into having an independent gemologist take a look at it without saying anything to them whatsoever in advance about the specs. As far as questioning whether the certificate is legit, it is a combination of what happened the first time around with the dealer that I bought the diamond from (I just posted a little background info on what happened), plus the fact that I can't track it through EGL's website and I only have a 6 digit cert #
 
And for even a little further elaboration on what happened with the first diamond, when I went to pick it up I noticed on the appraised value sheet that it said "SI and H color" I questioned this to the girl at the register, so she called the owner (same guy I first dealt with and bought the ring from). He was reportedly "busy in a meeting" but told the girl to change the specs to a "VS2" on the appraised sheet. I wasn't about to give her a hard time since she had zero involvement with any of initial sale, plus I couldn't speak to the owner at the time. I figured I would just get in touch with him another day and clear things up (and this is all before I noticed the black spots in the ring). When I finally got in touch with him, he swore every which way that he never said VVS1 (even though he did, since I asked him several times on day one whether he was sure on that) and that the store hasn't carried a VVS1 in a long time. He insisted he told me VS2, but I didn't want to exacerbate things by arguing and be stuck with a black-spotted diamond and not have the option of swapping it out for a different diamond in the store. Once again, a billion mistakes were made throughout (including trusting the guy in the first place since he came so highly recommended by a close family member, plus was very hospitable) and I've felt stuck ever since.
 
Brian, I'm so sorry about your bad experience.
I hope this diamond checks out for you, you can put this behind you and enjoy your diamond.

Thanks for posting about your experience.
It may help others in the future.
 
Yeah, there was a similar thread back in 2011. Unfortunately, that poster never came back with update. Does the cert say that the stone is inscribed?
 
Ash- EGL is nowhere near GIA in terms of being able to verify a report- so that single aspect is....well normal.
About having someone look at the diamond- an appraiser, for example.
You may be throwing good money after bad- as the person you really need to appeal to is the person who has your money.
I get angry when I read stories like yours- and they are all too common.
As a jeweler, I get upset when people pee all over the good names of the honest people in this trade by acting as the seller of your diamond did.
BUT_ you've got great outlook- arguing is not going to work- so you need to do whatever you can to get yourself satisfied.
The diamond you've got- do you like the way it looks?
Unfortunately- if the seller won't offer you some sort of substitute or satisfaction you may be stuck- so your feelings about the diamond matter
 
I would go back and make a stink and get a refund. Start over with a more reputable vendor.

Experiences like yours are the reason that I never recommend buying from a "wholesaler" who is a "friend of a friend". I am sorry you had to learn this lesson the hard way, and I hope your experience and thread helps others.
 
Selling something with fake documentation would be fraud. My first stop would be an expert to check it out and validate that it has fraudulent documentation and get that in writing from the other jeweler.
My second stop would be the police department.
 
If only.....I don't think a consumer is going to have a lot of luck trying to "debunk" EGL legally. As in using faulty grading as a basis for a fraud case.....

I would assume it's been tried before- but we all know what they say about assuming:)
 
I have a stone with an EGL certs that I can't verify. I knew that going in and made sure the price was set appropriately low such that if it turned out it was off by two letter and clarity grades I'd not be too upset. I think it's just down to EGL being a lousy company in general.

The problem seems to be the dealer is a con man. If you're in the USA, and if you can document that what you got isn't what you paid for, your state's consumer protection statute may offer some help, as well as the consumer protection department. If this dealer is "known" to them, they may be assembling a dossier of dissatisfied customers to use to take him to court. Check his record with the BBB too. If worse comes to worse, you may be able to take him to court for the difference in value between what you contracted to buy and what you got. Most con men have little time for dealing with court (even small claims court) and will reverse the transaction if you make enough of a stink.
 
I'm sorry for your troubles. Another story on why not to buy from a friend of a friend.
 
Guess there's no QR Code on that Certificate....
 
Hello everyone,

I've been away from my computer for awhile to study for school, and all I can say in regards to the responses is....WOW!! You are all truly amazing, and thanks so much for all of the support, advice, and everything else. It is beyond appreciated, and all of this really helps. I sill haven't received an email reply yet from EGL International either way, but what I'm going to do regardless is use the link that was provided for me to select an independent appraiser, and then go from there.
 
Oh, and thanks so much for that thread from 2011. I had actually found that one from trying to google anything and everything I could think of to figure a lot of this out. It sounded so similar to my situation, especially since that buyer's certificate # also started with "AA" and had only 6 digits. All that was concluded was the buyer swapped it out for an AGS and was good. This guy that I lost my money to doesn't even offer AGS or GIA. I know this because those were the first things I asked for when needing to do a diamond swap. I didn't even want to go with an EGL since I know they aren't nearly as precise, plus lean towards the benefit of the dealer. The crazy thing out of all of this is that I had used this website (which was tremendously helpful) to do tons of research prior to even going anywhere. On the day of going to the store I purchased from, I felt comfortable enough with everything and actively decided not to go through all of the official steps, despite knowing better. Granted I won't ever be aggressive or rude to any future sales-related interactions (as I recognize there are still some honest people out there), but I will always, ALWAYS go through the proper steps and never openly trust anyone fully ever again without having enough to back myself up, just in case.
 
The truth is, even if the EGL report is real, it doesn't mean it has a shred of reality in grading. It is pretty much worthless even if real. I am sorry you could not force the refund after the first stone, because you likely were taken twice instead of just once. Just warn your friend to stop recommending a dishonest vendor. No refunds is the biggest red flag, period!!!
 
Did you purchase using a credit card? (Sorry, if I missed something as I read through the posts quickly.) If so, could the charge be disputed with the credit card company? Does anyone know?
 
Oh hi,

Yes, this was fully purchased with credit cards. That's not a half bad idea to dispute, but can it be disputed if I actually have the purchased merchandise in my possession?
 
I see no particular reason to suspect that this is not EGL's work product. They have quite a few different labs distributed about the world and aren't actually all that good about getting everything posted on their website. The fat that they might have missed one is not evidence of a counterfeit. Similarly, they are a bit slow about replying to this sort of thing and although that can be annoying, it's NOT evidence of a problem.

As has been mentioned above, EGL's scales are not the same as other labs even though they use the same names for the grades. What they call excellent or ideal has almost no overlap with what someone else will. You've chosen them to be your expert eyes and ears and then are using that information as a basis that you can use to estimate 'value'. If you're now wishing to second guess or at least confirm that process, the step is to have it graded by someone ELSE. EGL''s website has little to do with it. That is to say, I would worry less about whether this is a genuine EGL work product than whether or not it's sound to be relying on EGL in the first place. Without that, who cares?
 
This is such a sad story as it also reflect badly upon us honest and ethical people in the business. This field is so largely based on trust and there are many you can actually really trust but sadly there are the rotten apples who ruin the entire experience for you and it reflects badly upon all of us in the trade. It makes me very upset but not that it is any consolation to you but there are many dealers who try to take advantage of others in the trade as well; I have had well know wholesale dealers try to completely take advantage of me>; of course I know better but to think that they try this with people in the trade and even suppose I am stupid, how do these people treat those that are much easier to take advantage of. One thing is for sure, I would never buy from such people and I am sure that you will never recommend this dealer either so in the end it will hurt him but sadly there may always be new victims for him to prey upon.
 
Success when disputing a credit card transaction is a function of the issuing bank and how much they value you as a customer. A friend with a Platinum AmEx has never had any problems getting transactions reversed when the goods were faulty. Other folks with different issuing banks have had more trouble. The CC issuer will require you to show that you've addressed the issue unsuccessfully with the merchant. I'd suggest assembling a short letter by mail, asking for a written reply, then filing your dispute after a reasonable amount of time, but in no case later than 90-days after the transaction.
 
The cert is most probably legit but the lab is softer on their grading criteria. Try to return the stone and work with a trustworthy merchant.
 
Thanks for all of the support and advice! When I tried to initially request a refund after pointing out to the jeweler that he gave me a diamond with easily visible black spots (especially after first saying it was supposed to be a VVS1, and then later stating it was a VS2), he pointed out the "no refunds" claim on the receipt. He was saying that he had "only made $1,000 on the deal", so I offered him $500 and the diamond back for a full refund. He didn't accept. I then offered him $1,000 and the diamond back; still declined. In my mind, I somewhat blacked out with internal rage and equal concern since I knew I was stuck (once again, I didn't have any proof of what was initially dictated on the receipt) and only had store credit to work with. Needless to say, I didn't even trust a non-certified diamond when considering what happened the first time around. The reason why I'd be even further upset is if I found out that I paid the extra for a certified diamond, only to find out that it didn't at least come from EGL. Without posting the actual amount that was spent for this newer diamond, I can humbly say that I knowingly paid way more than what should have been. Needless to say, it was all the tougher to completely keep my composure and not advocate for myself (like I normally would) since I felt concern from having absolutely zero written/physical proof to back myself up legally, plus if I got too aggressive then I could have possibly been stuck with the black-spotted diamond (which also cost plenty in itself) and no store credit, and/or he could have charged even more on the swapped diamond. What I'll have to do is have an independent appraiser take a look at it, plus wait to hear from EGL. Even though I'm currently going on an if, "what if" there is zero link between this diamond and EGL (hence, I would have paid even way more for something that isn't even actually certified)? I'm not counting on the accuracy of EGL (which is why I was upset that the dealer didn't even offer GIA or AGS), but I am fully counting on whether I actually paid extra for a diamond that was actually assessed by EGL. Thanks again to all of you for everything!!
 
Your best bet is to get a fully independent appraisal by someone like Neil Beaty who has posted in this thread and then use that with the vendor to request a refund when the specs come back lower than the EGL report. Then when they refuse, you can do the dispute with your CC company. I doubt the EGL cert is fake, but it is possible it doesn't match this stone.
 
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