PS Mommy Thread-Newborn to 12 months!

[mela lu]

OMG CDT - Lex is so grown and SO HANDSOME!!!!!

Wow. they are all growing up so fast.

Romeo is not jet lagged anymore and doing well with the pacifier thing at night since I''ve stopped giving it to him any time during the day. Now it''s only for sleeping (to fall asleep) and this seems to have helped. Last night there were only 2 pacifier shenannegans and the night before only 1.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 9/20/2009 6:32:07 PM
Author: fiery
Welcome back Mela!

Quick question. Sophia doesn't like frozen breastmilk so I need to figure out what to do. In the meantime, I need to get some formula in order to ensure that she gets enough to eat when I'm at work. Any recommendations? I'm afraid of messing up her tummy. Is the powder stuff better or the ready stuff? Do I need special water? TIA

When you say she doesn't like it what do you mean? Are you sure its the milk and not taking a bottle? Have you tried diff temperatures for the milkj? Just wondering bc if you want to keep BFing it is best to work on finding a way to get her to take the bottle of BM because supplementing increases the odds that your supply will decrease and then you will *need* to supplement. If you *want* to switch to FF, then ignore this

ETA Reading again, I mayhave misunderstood your post... still, my questions will help us to help you figure out what to do if you would like some help!

 

[MustangGal]

mela - welcome back! The pic of Romy in the water is cute! Happy to hear the paci issues are clearing up.

dreamer - sorry you had to re-home the doggie, but it''ll be better for her to have a home where she isn''t stressed. Good luck with the move and Hunter sleeping.

We made it to Palm Springs and back, and Kyle did great with his grandmas for the night/day. It was nice to have a night off, but I did wake up at 5am thinking I could hear him talking

. And of course, the night he spent with my mom was when he started crawling and pulling up on the couch! So now we have a VERY mobile baby. He was half way accross the living room trying to eat a dog toy last night before DH realized he''d even moved. We also had some pro pics taken while out there, which turned out really well, they even asked to use one as a store disply for their new props. My mom has instructions to get a pic of the pic on display when she picks up the pictures in a few weeks

So here''s a few of his shots, flirting with the camera girl.

 

[MustangGal]

You can see his tooth a little in this one

 

[MustangGal]

And a little bit of nekkie baby

 

[blushingbride]

***Mini Threadjack***

Hi Ladies - just popping by to welcome Mela home from her trip!

Mela - I''ve been thinking of you and popped over here to see if you got back yet. Sorry to hear about how much pain you were in while you were away. It sounds like you were still able to enjoy the trip despite everything. Didn''t you just love Croatia!? Did you guys go to Zagreb?

Not sure if you remember, but we also did Italy and Croatia last summer - did you take the ferry from Italy to Croatia?

Anyway, just wanted to hear a little bit about your trip.

Hope Romeo gets readjusted too and I''m so glad to hear your pain is gone.

LOVE the pic BTW - simply precious!!

 

[Mrs]

hi ladies!

Sabine, How''s Jacks doin? better I hope!

Mgal, I''m so glad you had fun in Palm Springs! Those pics are GREAT! That''s fun (and scary) that Kyle is so mobile now. good luck!

Mela, welcome home! I''m glad your trip was good despite the challenges you faced. That stinks that BFing hurt the whole time! Thank goodness they figured out what the problem was so that it doesn''t hurt any more now. That pic you posted is cute!

DD, I''m sorry to hear Hunter is still waking up so much and that you had to find a new home for your sweet Dreamer - that''s hard. It''s exciting that Hunter is so mobile though. I''m glad you figured out what was bothering Hunter and that making your own food is going well. Good luck getting ready for the move!

LIA, I''m so glad Coby is sleeping well for you again and that CIO worked for you. My pedi said it will get harder to break Sage of the night waking habit the longer I wait to stop it too so we may try COI soon. It''s so hard to hear her scream though when I know she''ll stop if I just give in....

fiery, why do you say Sophia doesn''t like frozen BM? Are you sure it''s the milk and not the bottle?

cdt, cute pic! you two look great!

hi everyone else!

All''s well here though I am really tired of getting up so often at night since she doesn''t really eat every time she wakes up and fusses though she always wants to nurse. Often, as soon as she gets the boob in her mouth she settles back into sleep while using me as a pacifier but she''ll still get mad when I try to take her off. Very frustrating.

We went to the pedi for her 6 mo check up last week and Sage is doing great though she''s just a little thing - 11th percentile for height and 34th for weight. The dr said that the longer I wait to break her of the nursing habit at night the harder it''ll get to do so. She said I should try to get her to go back to sleep without nursing but in my experience that is impossible without letting her COI...

We started some solids (cereal and sweet potato) last week which she likes a lot but I''m still wanting to try Baby Led Weaning since I hate just shoveling food in her mouth with a spoon. I''d rather let her have more control what she''s getting so we''ll probably try some soft solids that she can feed herself soon.

I''m on a mission this week to get her on a healthy nap schedule since she has been so inconsistent with day time sleep for the last two weeks. She sometimes only sleeps 30 min in the morning and other times it''s 2.5 hours. And I''ve never been good about putting her in her crib at a regular hour for afternoon naps so I''m going to try to do that this week... we''ll see how it goes. Maybe it''ll help the night wake ups too.... fingers crossed!!

hope you''re all well!
Mrs

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 9/21/2009 2:04:26 PM
Author: Mrs
I''m on a mission this week to get her on a healthy nap schedule since she has been so inconsistent with day time sleep for the last two weeks. She sometimes only sleeps 30 min in the morning and other times it''s 2.5 hours. And I''ve never been good about putting her in her crib at a regular hour for afternoon naps so I''m going to try to do that this week... we''ll see how it goes. Maybe it''ll help the night wake ups too.... fingers crossed!!

Hunter is the champion napper -- sleeps for 2 hours from 9-11 and 1-3 almost every single day... and sleeps like crap at night

So I hope it helps the night wakings, but don''t count on it too much

Don''t feel pressured to CIO until you are ready... it will be hard no matter when you do it, and many babies do eventually sleep longer and longer periods without their parents ever doing CIO. I know a few family''s like that. It all just depends on how long you are willing to wake up. You could consider choosing one night sleep to eliminate, say the first one, and only do CIO for that one.... I don''t know

I have no sleep wisdom any more at all. We tried CIO with HUnter the other night and he went past the 20 minute mark so many people talk about, so I fed him. So it was totally pointless

 

[lili]

MustangGal--
Great pictures of Kyle.
I

the nekkid shot -- just precious and priceless.

cdt--
LOL....cute picture of you two.
Lex is getting so big.
He looks like you.

Mela--
Nice picture of Romy.
Hehe, looks like he''s got a nice tan from the trip eh?

 

[gailrmv]

Mrs and DD Oh, I hear you ladies on sleep. That has been the hardest thing with A too! Most nights lately he's been up twice but with a long spread in between so I feel human again. Naps - remember, this is the kid who WOULD NOT NAP for the first few months of his life - and now he's napping OK. Usually 30 to 60 min twice a day. It's not great but it's better than before.

Mrs I know what you mean about not wanting to shove food down her throat. Same here. We've tried rice cereal, bananas, and sweet potato so far. Some days he likes them, other days he has no interest at all. I try to just go with the mood of the day.



Fiery I have been thinking of you since your other thread and hope things are going better for you.

Mela, cdt and mustanggal What great photos! Mustang, cool that Kyle did well at his grandparents and cool that he is mobile now!

Hi to everyone else!

Not much new here... we started his mother's morning out program once a week. It's going pretty well. He's a lot younger than the other kiddos but I think he's enjoying it and I'm enjoying a few hours to myself.

I will soon be finishing up the part time work I've been doing from home. it's been nice staying connected to my former job, but the bit I've been doing lately has been beyond boring and it's just been stressful filling my small bits of free time with work stuff. Anyway, I am about to finish the project I'm staffed on, and there aren't any other projects starting now, so I'll be just a regular SAHM for at least a while.

Off to fold laundry!

 

[cdt1101]

Mgal - I LOVE the pics of Kyle!! especially the nekkid pic..too cute! I've been wanting to get professional pics done of Lex, but will probably wait until he's 6 months to do it.

Lili - thanks! It's funny, if people see Lex w/ me and don't know my DH they say he looks like me, but as soon as DH appears everyone it's like "he looks JUST like daddy" ....so who knows

Mela - glad Romy is back on track!!

Sorry to hear some of you are having such trouble w/ nightime sleeping. Lex is still doing really well, although he's waking up at 4:00 am now instead of 5:00 - 5:30....he does go back to sleep though after i feed him then. I'm just going w/ it for now, but I return to work in about 2 months, so I'd prefer he didn't wake so early then

Put we'll see....I'm anticipating a major regression sometime soon! I'm hoping not though.

We already started giving Lex Oatmeal. I guess we jumped the gun a little on that, but he loves it! He opens his mouth for me and doesn't even spit much out! He's not even 4 months yet

No wonder people think he looks like he's 5 months..hehehe...we have a big boy! And he's constantly staring at us when we have food now...but I'm not ready to start baby food just yet. I don't want him to grow up anymore

And last pic I swear..hehee...I just have so many I find funny!! This was the first time we gave him Oatmeal a few weeks ago...

 

[cdt1101]

ok..wouldn''t attach...try again.

 

[Blenheim]

My reply got eaten, and I''m too lazy to type it all out again. But-

Welcome back, Mela!

And all of the babies are just adorable: Romeo in the ocean, Lex getting his latest gossip, and nakkie Kyle with his tooth.

DD, my sympathies about Dreamer. I can completely understand why you needed to rehome her. Good luck in the upcoming move!

Mrs, I did sew the bedding myself! Good luck with the sleep. Please let me know if you discover any great naptime tips - George STTN but naps like crap.

 

[fisherofmengirly]

I haven''t peeked in here in ages... so many new baby pictures to adore! They''re all so lovely, ladies. Soak up every minute, and fit in an extra squeeze from me, please.

 

[mela lu]

Urgh. We had a terrible night last night. He was up at least a dozen times wanting his pacifier.

When feeding time came, he only BF for 5 mins and was asleep again, so I know he''s not hungry.

I''m at the end of my rope.

___

In happy news, Kyle and Lex are TDF.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 9/22/2009 9:55:47 AM
Author: mela lu
Urgh. We had a terrible night last night. He was up at least a dozen times wanting his pacifier.

When feeding time came, he only BF for 5 mins and was asleep again, so I know he''s not hungry.

I''m at the end of my rope.

___

In happy news, Kyle and Lex are TDF.

I can commiserate. Hunter was up at 10, 12, 2, 5 and then 7 last night. DH tried to settle him at the 2am wake up and managed to calm him, but as soon as he put him down he was crying again

I have no idea what to do! I know that CIO is probably going to be the only solution, and I am fine with that BUT we are moving out of our current house in 1 week and then we will be staying with family for a month! Two weeks here in our present city, then almost 3 weeks in our new city with my family. In that time we will be sleeping all in the same room, and CIO in that situation is impossible for a few reasons 1) family can''t handle to listen to it and 2) it seems cruel to be right next to him and ignore him. He would never stop if he knows we are right there!

So I think we will just have to bear it out for a month until we are settled in our new home, and I am about one night away from co-sleeping in the hopes of it helping keep him happy and quiet.

Mela, I know this isn''t what you want to hear, but I have about four friends with kids under 1 year and they are ALL going through the exact same sleep issues with their kids -- wakeups every couple of hours all night long. It is a really packed developmental phase and I think it messes with their sleep. And ours!

 

[lover in athens]

DREAMER: i promise i''m not a child abuser

, and this may sound funny, but is there a closet or bathroom that hunter could sleep in while you are staying with family? when we visited my parents a few months ago, coby slept in his pack''n''play in my walk in closet. it just barely fit in there, but it was PERFECT!! nice and dark (i think he took the best naps he''s ever taken), but still close by at night...

however...my dad was out of town for the first few days...my mom and i were going out while coby was napping, and i asked my dad to listen for him (on the monitor) and to get him once he woke up. i mentioned that he was in my closet as i was leaving. my dad had to search when coby finally woke up b/c he thought i was kidding!!!

MRS: good luck with the naps.i didn''t have coby on a set schedule until he was about 8 months old, and what a difference it has made! he naps MUCH better and i like being able to schedule my day.

MELA, CDT, MG: adorable pics!!!!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 9/22/2009 11:55:03 AM
Author: lover in athens
DREAMER: i promise i''m not a child abuser

, and this may sound funny, but is there a closet or bathroom that hunter could sleep in while you are staying with family? when we visited my parents a few months ago, coby slept in his pack''n''play in my walk in closet. it just barely fit in there, but it was PERFECT!! nice and dark (i think he took the best naps he''s ever taken), but still close by at night...

however...my dad was out of town for the first few days...my mom and i were going out while coby was napping, and i asked my dad to listen for him (on the monitor) and to get him once he woke up. i mentioned that he was in my closet as i was leaving. my dad had to search when coby finally woke up b/c he thought i was kidding!!!

I have throught of that! At my moms place I think there is a closet that is big enough, esp. if we make room, so I think that is where we will put him there. At my inlaws it is more complicated, but we will figure it out. I agree, if we can find a place to stick him it may be better for everyone.

 

[Mrs]

DD and Mela, I''m so sorry your nights were bad last night. Mine wasn''t much better with Sage up at 10:30, 2:30, 4:30, and 6:45. At 10:30 I tried to let her CIO. I planned to let her go as long as needed but then I remembered Tacori''s 20 min rule and figured maybe I would go to her if she was still crying after 20 min. So I waited and she kept almost getting back to sleep but after 60 seconds of quiet she would start up again... Finally I went to her and tried to get her to settle down without the boob which worked for a very short time until I tried to put her down and then she completely freaked out and I gave in... So she learned that if she cries long and hard enough mom will eventually give in and produce the boob.... ug. I do want her to think I will respond when needed but I know she does NOT need to wake up every few hours to eat. What we both need is consolidated sleep. soooo frustrating and exhausting. Tonight I may be more resolved. We''ll see.

As for naps, she slept almost 2 hours for each nap yesterday at 9 and 2. She cried for a full 20 or 30 minutes before her first nap but went down without a peep for her second.

Here are some observations which may help others also struggling with naps:

1) I always take her out for a walk at about 8:15Am to stimulate her before we start winding down for her morning nap. When I take her in the Ergo she sometimes falls asleep while we''re walking which isn''t such a good thing since I''d rather she fall asleep in her crib or in my arms as I''m feeding her before her nap. She doesn''t fall asleep while we''re walking if I take her out in her stroller but it takes longer for her to wind down if I do it that way.

2) If I go out with her in the car when she might be tired and she falls asleep, we run the risk of completely messing up the afternoon nap since she doesn''t transfer well. So any car trips need to be carefully timed so that she isn''t so tired that she will fall asleep.

3) Sometimes Sage wakes up from a nap rather grumpy and in those cases, I don''t think she''s really ready to wake up yet. If I nurse her immediately she will sometimes doze back to sleep and sometimes I can get her back in her crib - other times I keep her in my arms while she sleeps another 10 or 15 minutes.

4) Sage sleeps much better on her side so if I nurse her and then put her in her crib and roll her onto her side with her paci, she''s much more likely to relax into sleep than if I put her down on her back.

gotta go pump...

 

[Mrs]

Another observation. If it takes longer for S to wind down in the AM, she sleeps for longer. Yesterday's crying for 20 minutes wasn't fun but she slept for 2 hours. Today, she went down without a peep but she's up after only 45 minutes....

 

[Sabine]

Glad to hear I''m not the only one with sleep issues!

Sometimes Jacks will go up to 6 hours between feedings at night, and other nights he''s up every 3 hours on the dot. And although his stomach problems have gotten a *little* better with our switch to Nutramigen, he still spits up in his sleep (usually a half hour after we put him down, which is a half hour after he eats), which wakes him up, and then he needs to be rocked back to sleep. Or he is still straining with gas or trying to poop and sometimes wakes himself up with that. This is the worst because he trashes about so much that he breaks ANY swaddle and is impossible to get reswaddled. But he will not sleep for more than 5 minutes unswaddled.

He also struggles to go down for the night initially. It''s weird because I have no trouble getting him down for naps during the day, but he fights sleep so much at night that my dh actually thinks he''s colicky. Dh had been in charge of putting him down, and he would often cry for an hour until he was so exhausted he would pass out. Now I''m doing it, and I can usually get him down around 8, 8:30, he will sleep for half an hour, wake up crying, cry for a few minutes, and then "doze" for another hour or so until he''s really out. During this dozing, he''s in and out of sleep, and if I try to put him down he cries immediately. I usually get him down for good about 10, but then he''s usually up around 11 wanting to eat again.

I''m also really stressed because dh just started his surgery rotation. He gets up at 3 AM to leave, and he hasn''t been getting home until 7 or 8. At that point he eats and goes right to bed. So basically I feel like a single mom these days, and not having even an hour of a break has really been wearing on me. I replied to a few ads on Craigslist for babysitters today. I think if any of them work out, I''ll have them watch Jacks for me while I''m at home at first just so I can have a bit of a break, that way I''ll see how they are with him.

 

[Sabine]

Oh, totally wanted to reply to Fiery at least!

There''s not any real difference between powder and ready to feed formula, just convenience. But if you are only using it occasionally, you might want to stick to powder as rtf has to be used within 24 hours of opening. The powder can be a bit thinner and grainier, but I haven''t found any real difference. As for which formula, most brands have a regular, a slightly broken down one for sensitive stomachs, and then even more broken down ones. You could probably start with the regular formula of any brand and be okay.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Hey Sabine I know this sounds crazy, but you should try putting Jacks down earlier at night, maybe around 7pm or even sooner. Sometimes when the fight it so much it is b/c they are really tired. When is his last nap of the day? And I'm sorry that it is so rough, I know how it is when you are alone and it SUCKS! I hope the babysitter works!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Wish me luck tonight! I am trying something new and we put Hunter down at 6:30. This is about an hour earlier than usual, and almost 2 hours earlier than last night when he woke so much

I''m hoping he doesn''t wake for a long while!

If he wakes before midnight though we will let him CIO. I honestly think this whole thing got out of hand when I tried to introduce a "deam feed" at 11pm hoping it would let him sleep until morning. Before I tried that he would sleep until 2am and then through the night. Once I interrupted that first longer sleep period all heck broke loose!

I am hoping for good zzzz for all the other babies!

And thier mamas

 

[Blenheim]

Hope it went well tonight, DD!

I have a question about earlier bedtimes. From your description, I think that we should start trying to put George down earlier. But I''m not really sure how. Tonight, I picked him up from daycare, got home around 6, unpacked everything, and then took him and the dogs on a walk. He fell asleep on the walk, and then when he woke up he really woke up and did NOT want to fall back asleep. Coming home from the walk (7:15ish) would have been about the right time to put him down, if he had let me. But he often gets keyed up when he wakes up after being on walks or on car rides. If you''re not able to be home very early, how do you manage to get them to bed pretty early? Is anyone else in this situation? It''s good for my health and the dogs health (emotional and physical) to go on walks, so I don''t want to have to sacrifice that.

Daycare thinks he''s teething (he''s had signs for a while, but just much more pronounced today), and if that''s true that could also explain fussiness and fighting everything.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 9/22/2009 10:20:50 PM
Author: Blenheim
Hope it went well tonight, DD!


I have a question about earlier bedtimes. From your description, I think that we should start trying to put George down earlier. But I''m not really sure how. Tonight, I picked him up from daycare, got home around 6, unpacked everything, and then took him and the dogs on a walk. He fell asleep on the walk, and then when he woke up he really woke up and did NOT want to fall back asleep. Coming home from the walk (7:15ish) would have been about the right time to put him down, if he had let me. But he often gets keyed up when he wakes up after being on walks or on car rides. If you''re not able to be home very early, how do you manage to get them to bed pretty early? Is anyone else in this situation? It''s good for my health and the dogs health (emotional and physical) to go on walks, so I don''t want to have to sacrifice that.


Daycare thinks he''s teething (he''s had signs for a while, but just much more pronounced today), and if that''s true that could also explain fussiness and fighting everything.

I hate to say it Blen-but you would have to sacrifice the walks. If he''s falling asleep there it won''t help him to go to bed early because he''s just had a cat nap on the walk.

Any way you can go for walks in the morning? Or put him in a sling and not let him fall asleep? Otherwise you might have to decide if the early bedtime or the walk is more important.

For us the early bedtime is important. Yes it sucks to sacrifice things that we would like to do-but we do it because the boys really do sleep much better when they go to bed earlier.

JMO of course. Good luck!

 

[fieryred33143]

Hey everyone. I''ve been wanting to reply to everyone but our internet has been down and its such a pain on my phone (chubby fingers syndrome lol)

DD-hope tonight goes well. Re: the frozen milk-she just wouldn''t drink it. I tested out 2oz and she spit it all out. She was using the same bottle that she has been. I''m going to test out more tomorrow.

Sophia was doing 9-5 all last week and these past two days she has done 8-12, 2, 4:30, and 7am. I want to get her on a longer sleep schedule since work starts on Monday.

Also she''s in size 2 diapers now! I felt so bad because she was in 1s which were too tight. When I put the 2s, she had a major blowout. I think she finally felt free enough to poop. Poor girl

We''re getting tile this week. I won''t even discuss the grossness that is our floor when they ripped up the carpet. Gross

TTYL

 

[Blenheim]

NF - Thanks for the help.

I have to be out of the house at 7:10 to get to work on time, and going on a walk before that just seems so early. It''s not even light yet now. I guess I''ll try a few days of going on walks after work but really try to keep him awake and see what happens. I usually put him in the Ergo - I have a hard time handling a stroller plus two big dogs with just two hands. Our mei tai is a little less swaddling, so I think I''ll try that tonight and see what happens. Or maybe I''ll suck it up and take us all for a run - then I''ll only be out of the house for 15 min (all I can handle running right now) so he probably won''t have time to fall asleep.

 

[cdt1101]

Sabine - Jacks sounds sooooooo much like Lex at that age!! He used to throw up in his sleep too and it would wake him up. He grew out of it, so just give Jacks time (not what you want to hear). Also for the gas, have your tried Mylicon?? If so, do you put it in the bottle? If you haven''t tried it yet, I''d recommend it, it worked soooooo much for us...seriously, I want to be their spokesperson

How long has Jacks been on the new formula? For us, it took exactly 2 weeks for us to see a dramatic difference. By day 15 he was like a new baby.

And I agree w/ Dreamer on putting Jacks to bed earlier. Up until recently Lex would go to bed by 5:00-5:30!!! I know that''s super early, but honestly even w/ all of his naps during the day, by 4:30 the kid was just having a major meltdown, so instead of trying to ''fight'' it and keep him up, i''d put him to bed. And he STTN! The downside is he gets up super early (normally by 5:00, but I can feed him and he''ll sleep for at least another hour), but that works for me in the long run since I go back to work soon.

Having an early bedtime definitely sucks though because we always HAVE to be home by 5:00 to start winding him down. But it''s worth it to have a baby that''ll sleep at night!! Recently though, we have been able to push his bedtime to 6:30 since there is NO way he could go to bed by 5:00 when I go back to work.

One last thing....have you tried sleeping Jacks on his tummy yet? I know you asked about it awhile back. We noticed that when Lex had such bad gas that if we applied gentle pressure to his belly he calmed down, so we figured sleeping him on his tummy might help some. The first time we tried it, he had his first 2 hour nap!! So we never looked back...the downside, is when he had reflux really bad he would wake up in a pool of his spitup

Lots of nighttime sheet changing!

Dreamer - hope you had success last night!

Blen - I agree w/ Neat, you may have to give up the walks

 

[Dreamer_D]

Well, it wasn''t a complete success but it was a success nonetheless

Yesterday Hunter had an earlier second nap so I took that as a good opportunity to put him down at 6:30. He woke at 11pm and we let him CIO for 25 minutes, but he didn''t give any signs that he was going to put himself to sleep and we are not ready to *really* tackle that one, so I nursed him and he ate ith a lot of determination and focus, drained both sides, so I think he was actually hungry (did the crying make am appatite??).

But then he slept until 4am!

Nursed again and slept until his usal 7am wake up. So I actually got 4 hours of sleep in a row twice last night

I really think the earlier bedtime was the key to it all. Today HUnter is MUCH less fussy than he has been for the last week. He also benefitted from sleeping better. In the past we were sort of keeping him awake from about 6pm onwards, so obviously he was tired.

Anyways, anyone else having sleep issues you may want to think about trying an earlier bedtime, like before 7pm. Can''t hurt

***
Blen I think you may have to give up the walk

Why don`t you do an experiment and try putting him down at 6:30. If it seems like it is making a big difference for him then it may be worth switching the walk to monrning, even if it is dark.