Reality check for collectors who sell

[Ionysis]

Aww thanks for reading and commenting, @Daisys and Diamonds! Truthfully, I don't particularly want the gem back, as it was an honest transaction and she contacted me after expiration of the return period. But she's trying to keep the gem and demand a partial refund. I certainly don't want to be made to do that either, especially since her argument is based solely upon a fabricated story and not a conflicting gem report. So I have no idea where this is going at the moment! But it's nerve-wracking, for sure. I get the impression she is not done.

You’re not being “made” to do anything. You sold her a stone in good faith, knowing and having it certified to be what you said, received a payment and that’s the end of it. Block her.

 

[2Neesers]

This is a terrible situation to be in! I hope everything works out for you.
What really sticks out to me is that it doesn’t make sense that she would be looking for an expensive, natural pad and still want to keep a stone she ‘believes’ is synthetic. That doesn’t add up in my opinion.
This must so stressful for you!

 

[autumngems]

Hello all,

I have had a most unpleasant experience with a buyer. I am not a retailer... I am a collector who sells stones I no longer want. I had a woman contact me interested in a 2ct. padparadscha sapphire I had for sale. I had it certified as natural and untreated by the GIA and AGL. It had been purchased from the NSC. The buyer must have asked me 35 questions prior to the purchase, and I happily responded to each, holding her hand along the way. She mentioned that she is an amateur collector. I gave her a sizable discount, against my better judgment, as I knew I could sell the stone for more. But she claimed it was her dream pad and her father was sick and her truck broke down, and blah blah blah. Yes, I'm loathe to admit that it moved me. She also asked for a payment plan. Obliged. I also gave her a one week, no questions asked, return policy. She purchased the gem, eventually paid in full, and it was safely shipped and delivered.

The one week period passes without a word from her. Today, she wrote me to say she went to a jeweler who proclaimed the stone synthetic. She still wanted to keep the gem, but was demanding a $6,000 partial refund. I calmly explained there was just NO possible way this stone was a synthetic. I should also mention that I am a GIA grad. It is utterly farcical that this gem not only duped the NSC and myself, but also the GIA and AGL. She told me the jeweler saw "bubbles" under a microscope. I told her that was likely inaccurate, but that

natural sapphires can sometimes show gas bubbles, and that they are usually contained within negative crystal inclusions, which are basically mineral-shaped holes that have liquid suspended within them, and pockets of trapped air. So even if she and/or this jeweler were indeed seeing what they believed to be bubbles under a microscope, that is not a definitive indicator of synthetic corundum. This is why we have gem labs!

In any event, I asked her for the name and number of the "jeweler" and his credentials. She told me he was not an actual gemologist, but refused to name him. After some prodding, she divulged the store's name, but asked me not to contact them. "It's a small town," she said. Naturally, I call, and the owner has quite a tale to tell me. He said she has never been in his shop and he's never examined a gem for her. But he used to work with her and they did not get along. She was removed from the position, which eventually went to his friend. He went on to tell me some very troubling things about this person. Naturally, we were both very upset. When I relayed this info to the buyer, she erupted... a far cry from the kindly demeanor she had at the outset of this transaction.

So now I have a headache on my hands, and even though I know I am clearly in the right, I have no idea how this will play out if she continues to pursue it. I told her to have the gem reexamined by the GIA or AGL, if that will put her mind at ease. But she was furious I contacted the jewelry store, spoke with her nemesis, and "raised hell" for her. Of course, I had the absolute right. I'm not sure she understands how serious a synthetic allegation is to a gem seller.

I won't harp on and on. But I wanted to mention this issue here as a reminder that it is not only buyers who must be leery and stay vigilant. We take a chance every time we sell something, that there may be an unstable or nefarious individual on the other side of the transaction.

Sigh,
Autumn​

You have copies of the reports and any payment trail and the contact info of the jewelry store she said she went to that said it was fake, if she tries anything with Paypal, turn all that info over to them and they can call the said gentleman and get the story if need be. I hope it works out for you.
BTW, love the name, it's my daughter's also.

 

[demantoidz]

You’re not being “made” to do anything. You sold her a stone in good faith, knowing and having it certified to be what you said, received a payment and that’s the end of it. Block her.

If you mean OP should ignore the buyer and only if a dispute is made then communications with PayPal as a mediator should ensue, that might be a good idea for OP's stress levels. Clearly the buyer is not behaving in good faith.

However it might be useful to OPs case to show a willingness to work with the buyer rather than blocking them. I am not sure what parameters PayPal looks at... Not that they need more than the lab reports to rule in OP's favor.

Even if PayPal's employees are not very knowledgeable about gems, quite a lot of colorless diamonds probably sell via PayPal, so the concept of reputable reports shouldn't be new to them. Eg, EGL vs GIA grading reports.

 

[pearlsngems]

The buyer could send back something completely different. A pebble, even.

If PayPal tells her to return it for a refund, I would be very careful -- maybe even open the package at the local police station and file a theft report if what she returns is different from what you sent her.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Stories like this scare me so much
Sorry this happened to you! She sounds like quite the scam artist.

Thank you!

 

[Autumn in New England]

What I find most surprising here is that she got not one but two certificates issued by reputable labs and still tried to lie despite that. Like, lady, what are you hoping to achieve? Maybe if the gem was sold without any certification, maybe, but you're staring at hard evidence that can't just be overlooked. Some people have the wildest thought process.

Right?! I mean, she actually thought she was going to tell me some nameless and credential-less guy said it's a synthetic, and I was just going to refund her? This is a new one for me.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Between this and the F2 emerald, you aren't having the best time. What a nightmare.

lol Not my greatest week as a collector or seller, that's for sure!

 

[Autumn in New England]

I’m so sorry this happened and she’s obviously trying to keep the gem for a sizable discount. Ugh. Has she actually filed a claim or is she still in just complain mode?

No claim yet... when we left off, she said she was sending the gem back to the GIA for retesting. The weird thing is, if she was indeed trying to scam me, I just can't figure out why she'd actually want to pay for a new report/shipping/insurance. That tells me maybe she really does think it's a synthetic despite the reports. And I think that's worse! Because it means she's illogical. Or maybe she was lying (again) and has no intention of resubmitting it. Who knows!

 

[Autumn in New England]

Couldn't she have done the same? I once worked with a couple of individuals (borderline sociopaths) who tried to steal the company I worked for, out from under the other two partners. They were constantly accusing everyone else of the very things they were actually doing.

That would have never occurred to me, but, by her logic, yes!

 

[Autumn in New England]

@Autumn in New England , I don’t have anything substantive to add other than I hope this works out as it should: that she and her true intent are revealed to Pp and the situation is resolved in your favor! You are so eloquent and able to communicate clearly that surely that should help in your rebuttal should it come to that. How in the world did she find you?

Aww thanks so much for saying so!

 

[Mreader]

No claim yet... when we left off, she said she was sending the gem back to the GIA for retesting. The weird thing is, if she was indeed trying to scam me, I just can't figure out why she'd actually want to pay for a new report/shipping/insurance. That tells me maybe she really does think it's a synthetic despite the reports. And I think that's worse! Because it means she's illogical. Or maybe she was lying (again) and has no intention of resubmitting it. Who knows!

I think she probably is lying. What a weirdo. I am really sorry you are dealing with this! I hope she just drops off. Fingers crossed.

 

[seaurchin]

First, I think it’s great (and hilarious) that you called the jeweler and sent her into a giant meltdown at being revealed as the POS that she truly is. I’d be very surprised if you heard any more from her after that!

But just in case, if she does contact you again, I’d send her an email (so you have a record of it) detailing everything that went on and CC it to the jeweler who revealed her lie. At the end, tell her that if she wants to continue with her very obvious scam attempt, you will file a police report. If she still wants to keep playing this game after that, then do it. I wouldn’t be surprised if she already has a police record for this sort of thing. Please keep us updated!

 

[thirdrock]

First, I think it’s great (and hilarious) that you called the jeweler and sent her into a giant meltdown at being revealed as the POS that she truly is. I’d be very surprised if you heard any more from her after that!

But just in case, if she does contact you again, I’d send her an email (so you have a record of it) detailing everything that went on and CC it to the jeweler who revealed her lie. At the end, tell her that if she wants to continue with her very obvious scam attempt, you will file a police report. If she still wants to keep playing this game after that, then do it. I wouldn’t be surprised if she already has a police record for this sort of thing. Please keep us updated!

This is exactly what I was thinking.

 

[T L]

It’s like being a landlord, you never know when you’re going to get a terrible tenant. Best of luck with this terrible situation!

 

[Autumn in New England]

@Autumn in New England Hoping for the best resolution for you. This lady sounds like a nightmare. I will share a cautionary tale my husband went through with PP last year. He had a very expensive graphics card he was selling, and was approached by a buyer. They had a very friendly and technical chat, and the buyer was interested in picking up the card that night. My husband was working, so the gentleman came to his firehouse to make the transaction. He asked if it would be ok for his wife to send the payment via F&F, and he received the payment instantly. All good!

Cut to 6-8 weeks later, and DH gets a letter from PP that there is a dispute on the transaction, claiming the payment was fraudulent, and the account of the payer had been hacked to make the payment. Turns out the guy was a complete scammer. We filed a report with the police, DH had images of the guy's car from the security cameras and the plates were stolen. The phone # was throw-away. The guy was a ghost. DH was out the $$$ graphics card, and had to pay back the money, and there was a small penalty on top of it. Suffice it to say, G&S all the way from now on for anything we can't afford to lose.

And yes, the CS reps we dealt with from PP were all from SE Asia, and very "on script".

That is SHOCKING. I cannot believe PP did not back you guys on that transaction!! I'm thinking about all of the money I've exchanged using that platform, all the while believing I was protected. That's outrageous. Do you have any recourse against PP?

 

[Autumn in New England]

If the item is disputed, I would hope PayPal would require an appraisal from a qualified individual stating that the item is synthetic. Hopefully you have copies or serial numbers of the certs to dispute. I think science (gem testing equipment) trumps visual inspection.

Thank you... yes, one would hope. I do have every possible bit of documentation available should it come to that. But I just don't trust that PP will do their due diligence. You can't even speak to the review team. You're simply told that they're a "back office" dept. Even the reps can't speak with them, and I'm sure that's for a reason. So that doesn't exactly inspire my trust!

 

[Autumn in New England]

You’re not being “made” to do anything. You sold her a stone in good faith, knowing and having it certified to be what you said, received a payment and that’s the end of it. Block her.

I was speaking in terms of PP stepping in and possibly ruling in her favor. But, yeah, that's my stance at this point.

 

[Autumn in New England]

This is a terrible situation to be in! I hope everything works out for you.
What really sticks out to me is that it doesn’t make sense that she would be looking for an expensive, natural pad and still want to keep a stone she ‘believes’ is synthetic. That doesn’t add up in my opinion.
This must so stressful for you!

So much of this doesn't make sense! Who on earth would be willing to settle for a synthetic (even with a substantial partial refund) when they thought they were purchasing their "dream pad," which was natural and untreated?

 

[Autumn in New England]

If you mean OP should ignore the buyer and only if a dispute is made then communications with PayPal as a mediator should ensue, that might be a good idea for OP's stress levels. Clearly the buyer is not behaving in good faith.

However it might be useful to OPs case to show a willingness to work with the buyer rather than blocking them. I am not sure what parameters PayPal looks at... Not that they need more than the lab reports to rule in OP's favor.

Even if PayPal's employees are not very knowledgeable about gems, quite a lot of colorless diamonds probably sell via PayPal, so the concept of reputable reports shouldn't be new to them. Eg, EGL vs GIA grading reports.

I hope you're right! Yeah, I'm not going to get too worked up about it unless and until she escalates the issue. Maybe she'll just resubmit it to the GIA, be satisfied that it's natural and untreated, and that's the end. But she just seems so irrational that I'm preparing myself for anything.

 

[Autumn in New England]

The buyer could send back something completely different. A pebble, even.

If PayPal tells her to return it for a refund, I would be very careful -- maybe even open the package at the local police station and file a theft report if what she returns is different from what you sent her.

I know... I've considered that. She could take a mallet to the thing prior to shipping it back. I just don't trust her at this point.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I think she probably is lying. What a weirdo. I am really sorry you are dealing with this! I hope she just drops off. Fingers crossed.

Thank you!

 

[seaurchin]

I hope you're right! Yeah, I'm not going to get too worked up about it unless and until she escalates the issue. Maybe she'll just resubmit it to the GIA, be satisfied that it's natural and untreated, and that's the end. But she just seems so irrational that I'm preparing myself for anything.

Jmo but tbh she seems very rational to me. She knows exactly what she's doing (as shown by lying about the source of her allegations that the stone wasn't as listed). I don't believe she has any doubts about the stone. She is a shady person who is just trying to get something for nothing. I think she mistook your kindness for you being an easy mark. But you've corrected that misinterpretation lol.

 

[Autumn in New England]

First, I think it’s great (and hilarious) that you called the jeweler and sent her into a giant meltdown at being revealed as the POS that she truly is. I’d be very surprised if you heard any more from her after that!

But just in case, if she does contact you again, I’d send her an email (so you have a record of it) detailing everything that went on and CC it to the jeweler who revealed her lie. At the end, tell her that if she wants to continue with her very obvious scam attempt, you will file a police report. If she still wants to keep playing this game after that, then do it. I wouldn’t be surprised if she already has a police record for this sort of thing. Please keep us updated!

The funny thing is, I told her straight away that the reason I was asking for the contact info was to call the person. And she still gave me a bogus name! But not only that, she gave me the name of a jewelry store owned by her arch rival!! You'd think she would have just refused to reveal it. What in the world? As we ended the conversation, the store owner told me he was calling the sheriff, who was a good friend. Apparently, she lives right around the corner from the store. So he's already taking this very seriously. And she slandered him terribly in our subsequent emailings. I'm afraid to send them to him and stoke the fire though. He's also a local politician, and I got the impression he does not mess around.

 

[Autumn in New England]

It’s like being a landlord, you never know when you’re going to get a terrible tenant. Best of luck with this terrible situation!

Words of wisdom... thank you!

 

[Ionysis]

No claim yet... when we left off, she said she was sending the gem back to the GIA for retesting. The weird thing is, if she was indeed trying to scam me, I just can't figure out why she'd actually want to pay for a new report/shipping/insurance. That tells me maybe she really does think it's a synthetic despite the reports. And I think that's worse! Because it means she's illogical. Or maybe she was lying (again) and has no intention of resubmitting it. Who knows!

Honestly she sounds like either a con artist or crackers. So sorry you’re having to deal with it. I think you’ve already gone above and beyond to try to satisfy her. Must be time to cease contact - for your mental well being at least. You know you’ve done absolutely nothing wrong.

 

[seaurchin]

The funny thing is, I told her straight away that the reason I was asking for the contact info was to call the person. And she still gave me a bogus name! But not only that, she gave me the name of a jewelry store owned by her arch rival!! You'd think she would have just refused to reveal it. What in the world? As we ended the conversation, the store owner told me he was calling the sheriff, who was a good friend. Apparently, she lives right around the corner from the store. So he's already taking this very seriously. And she slandered him terribly in our subsequent emailings. I'm afraid to send them to him and stoke the fire though. He's also a local politician, and I got the impression he does not mess around.

Goodnesss. She's not very bright, is she.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Honestly she sounds like either a con artist or crackers. So sorry you’re having to deal with it. I think you’ve already gone above and beyond to try to satisfy her. Must be time to cease contact - for your mental well being at least. You know you’ve done absolutely nothing wrong.

Oh absolutely... I told her I wouldn't be responding any further. Of course, if PP contacts me, I'll have to address it then.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Goodnesss. She's not very bright, is she.

lol I get the impression it's a verrrrry small town (in KS), and I wonder if that's the only jewelry store TO name. Still, how about just don't say anything!

 

[Autumn in New England]

You have copies of the reports and any payment trail and the contact info of the jewelry store she said she went to that said it was fake, if she tries anything with Paypal, turn all that info over to them and they can call the said gentleman and get the story if need be. I hope it works out for you.
BTW, love the name, it's my daughter's also.

Thank you x2! How lovely!!