belle
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Really confused on the HCA score & how to use it
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strmrdr
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Yea I thought about that after posting it and didn''t get back to add it. Only have a few more days with my wifey2b before she heads back so im spending as much time with her as possible.
I was thinking along the lines of what they are established in and have a track record for. Not that they couldn''t do it.
Most of the vendors once you get outside rounds are mostly drawing from the same suppliers but not all of them are established with the suppliers of the best fancy cuts either and that can make a huge difference when hunting down a hard to get stone or one thats in demand.
Mara
Super_Ideal_Rock
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gotta say when we were at houston last time we saw some amazing princesses, and i would never really have considered myself a princess person but these were just breathtaking. there were about 10 of them and i think some of them have gone up for sale on WF's ES section, they all have AGS certs if i am not mistaken and the light return and the patterns on them is just stellar. so while before i wouldn't have necessarily said WF for princesses, they are definitely thinking outside of the round box. also they had some sort of cut cornered square like a jubilee last time we were there but we only saw a few of them and honestly i liked the princesses much better. i just wish they had some smaller ones because those would be poppin' for earrings.
if i was personally searching for a fancy shape, i would definitely contact mark at ERD...he has found a stone or two for friends of mine...also i think for fancies the field is more 'wide open' in terms of people who can find you great stuff than with rounds where we just tend to have the usual suspects.
if i was personally searching for a fancy shape, i would definitely contact mark at ERD...he has found a stone or two for friends of mine...also i think for fancies the field is more 'wide open' in terms of people who can find you great stuff than with rounds where we just tend to have the usual suspects.
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Ahh, enjoy your time with her, that is WAY more important than worrying about diamonds!
I like your follow up comment and add only that while many will be calling the same vendors, there are also those who are well connected with vendors who do specialize in some of these fabulous cuts. Because of the rules here, many who do not regularly carry these goods may not comment about their ability to get them so a comment like yours may cause people not to call some of their otherwise favorite vendors, thus doing them a disservice. Of course, if that vendor can not get or does not have what people want, then that person has your list to work with also, which does them a service.
Many of us also know people not on your list to refer people to for specific cuts such as Old European and old style Cushion cuts. In my opinion, it is almost as important for a good service oriented vendor to know where to find things as it is to have them in house. It is also very important to know when he can do a better service for his client by referring them to the vendor who speciallizes in the goods, as with some items, the older cuts for example, it requires a lot of back and forth communication with the client to ascertain what will and what will not work, and this type of communication can better be done by the true expert in these goods.
Enjoy your together time and keep on posting when you have the time!
Wink
niceice
Brilliant_Rock
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Date: 7/16/2006 8:11:29 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp
Oh man, Pandora's Box... Creaking back the lid to let enough light cast a shadow upon the cob webs of ten years ago that plague my brain
..."Hearts & Arrows" of ten years ago was a different animal than it was today because profits existed in the diamond market that were ample enough to cover the production costs involved in cutting diamonds to such incredible precision. The difference in the high and low measurements for the crown and pavilion facets were practically nil, instead of a range of something like 34.3 - 34.8 degrees on the crown angle of what is commonly considered today to be a better than average stone, the tolerance was like 34.4 - 34.5 degrees and the same held true for the pavilion with something like 40.7 - 40.8 degrees and the result was WOW at the time because nothing comparable to it existed. Hearts & Arrows took flight over the internet and soared to the extent that it caught the attention of practically every cutter in the business and as with many trends, it soon suffered the weight of many cutters who were not completely familiar with the concept who mistakingly thought that "Hearts & Arrows" were to be found within every round brilliant cut diamond that received the AGS Ideal 0 rating - my favorite recollection of this concept is a conversation that I had with a cutter who was offering me a business (parcel) of "Hearts & Arrows" diamonds and during the scope of our conversation which was intended to determine whether it was worth paying to ship his offering out, I discovered that not only did he not have a Gems Fantasy Scope, he didn't even know what one was... Therefore, he couldn't possibly know whether the diamonds even exhibited a pattern of Hearts & Arrows, crisp or not. So many people like this jumped on the H&A band wagon, that the producers of true H&A diamonds really couldn't afford to maintain the precision of their production - but they did figure out how to produce a reasonable rendition of the patterns while still maintaining the high levels of light return and this is essentially what is found within the offerings of the more precise internet dealers today: WF, GOG, Wink, Paul's Infinity dealers and ourselves - note that I don't feel that any one of us offers diamonds any better than the other, the reality is that most of us source diamonds from the same cutters at various points in time and the decision to buy from one dealer over another often comes down to the simple reality of who has the particular diamond being sought at the particular point in time.
It should also be noted that there are many people who prefer a diamond cut to ideal proportions, but which does not exhibit a crisp and complete pattern of Hearts & Arrows because the symmetrical pattern tends to break up the pattern of light return and some people interpret this effect as dark spots within the diamond... Therefore, what is now considered to be "perfect" Hearts & Arrows (by today's standards) is not what many of us focus on when buying or producing diamonds for our inventories, I believe that most of us focus primarily on the visual performance of the diamond and consider the presence of a Hearts & Arrows pattern to merely be a visual characteristic of the diamond. Note the difference in the terms "visual performance" and "visual characteristic" the presence of a pattern of Hearts & Arrows is NOT an indicator that the diamond will have a higher degree of "visual performance" (brilliance, dispersion and scintillation) than an ideal cut diamond which does not exhibit a pattern of hearts and arrows... More important than the presence of the pattern is the precision to which the crown and pavilion facets have been cut - Paul, this is your area of expertise and I encourage you to take over my rant here to that regard
With specific reference to the diamond mentioned:
62.3% depth, 55% table, 35.5° crown angle, 40.4° pavilion angle
The HCA says:
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 0.8 - Excellent
within TIC range
The ODDS are that this diamond probably is quite pretty because in my experience, it's best to either have the crown and pavilion angles in harmony, such as within a range of 34.3 - 34.8 degrees with a pavilion angle between say 40.6 - 40.9 degrees which is essentially the middle of the range -or- at polar opposites such as they are here where the crown is steep and the pavilion is shallower and sometimes vice versa - but more often, like this... However, it's also best to try to keep the total depth of the stone a bit shallower like between 59 - 61.8% so that you're not spending your Hard Earned Cash-ola on DEPTH which you're not going to visually benefit from. As the total depth of the diamond increases, the visual outer circumferance of the diamond decreases and thus if this diamond was a 1.00 carat diamond (which should measure in the range of 6.50 mm if properly cut) it will likely "face up" around the size of a 0.90 carat stone, in which case you've just paid a bundle to break the 1.00 carat mark (there is a price increase which occurs between the 0.99 - 1.00 carat marks) for the look of a 0.90 carat stone - in which case, you could save some $$$ and just buy a 0.90 carat stone cut to better ideal proportions and it would look just as good, and perhaps better... Or since, 0.90 - 0.99 carat stones are in short supply because of the price increase that occurs between the 0.99 - 1.00 carat marks, you could simply search for a properly cut 1.00 carat that is going to cost within a percent or two and be properly cut. That said, I'm often reminded by my cutters that "there is a person for every diamond" so if the 62.3 puppy is calling your name, by all means buy it because it certainly does have the "potential" to be beautiful.
Cehrabehra
Super_Ideal_Rock
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rogue
Shiny_Rock
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Okay, check out this SuperbCert diamond: http://www.exceldiamonds.com/diamond/1885.html
It has a HCA score of 3.1, which I understand most people would weed out, but the Idealscope image looks great and it is a trusted brand.
Light Return Very Good
Fire Very Good
Scintillation Good
Spread or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 3.1 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right
What do we make of this? If a 3.1 could be great, do you think it could happen at 4.1, or 5.1?
It has a HCA score of 3.1, which I understand most people would weed out, but the Idealscope image looks great and it is a trusted brand.
Light Return Very Good
Fire Very Good
Scintillation Good
Spread or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 3.1 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right
What do we make of this? If a 3.1 could be great, do you think it could happen at 4.1, or 5.1?
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rogue
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Cehrabehra
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rogue
Shiny_Rock
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Looks like the website is back up. It looks like the actual photo, judging from some of the inclusions in the "additional pictures" section. HCA just blows me away--I wish we could see photos and Idealscope images of 20 different "excellent" cut stones with their corresponding HCA score ranges at every .3 score interval or so. Another project for Garry?
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