Reluctant LIW

[aljdewey]

G, I think the answer lies in this thread.

Honey, you''ve said it plain as day at least 3-4 times now....."I''m not ready to be married, I don''t want to marry yet, and I feel like I''m being hustled into it."

It''s time to face the truth you don''t want to. You have to be honest with him and tell him you aren''t ready. And that you don''t know when you will be.

I''ve mentioned it many times, and I know Mara has, too. Successful relationships are as much about auspicious timing as anything else. If you''re ready and the other person isn''t (or vice versa), it''s just not going to work. I know that you deeply *want* it to work, but you can''t force it to be proper timing if it''s not.

If you''re meant to be with him at some point, then you will.....someday. But I really believe that now isn''t that time, and I think you know it too. I know you don''t want to lose him, but you''re going to lose him anyway....it will be just in pieces, stages. You''ll lose him to the overwhelming resentment you''re going to feel at HAVING to do this before you''re ready. He''ll get lost in that, and it won''t work.

He''s prioritizing his career (nothing wrong with that)....to him, that''s a must.....a non-negotiable. What I hear from you is that your singlehood time is a must, too....and it''s non-negotiable. That puts you at conflicting purposes, so it''s not the right time.

If it''s meant to be, it will be....down the line. I really believe that going into this marriage feeling this way would be a tremendous mistake. I''ve hoped that time would bring acceptance, but as it goes by, it seems you are even more strongly sure that you aren''t ready. I think it''s time to confess that.

Good luck to you.

 

[Larissa]

Date: 10/20/2006 9:46:09 PM
Author: Galateia

Re: Work Visa.


In order to be eligible for a work visa, I must first have an employer who will file the petition for my visa for me. Unless I am a migrant seasonal farm hand, a musician touring, a competing athelete, or an actor under contract, my employer must prove that there is NO ONE in the US who can do the job they need ME to do. (I read the paperwork-- they are VERY clear on which categories one MUST fall under) I do not have any such skills. There is no 'general work visa'. In order to apply for a visa, one needs the application to be processed the April in advance of the year you want to be in the US. The 2007 applications that were filled this year in April hit maximum quota in about THREE WEEKS. Anyone wanting to get into the US on a work visa must prepare to file NEXT April in anticipation for year 2008. That's right. The first date anyone can be cleared to work in the US unless they have ALREADY got their visa is 2008. That's even if I was eligible for a work visa, but I am not. I checked this with a laywer. A snowball in hell has better chances than I do.


As for the school visa, I can't afford it. Period. I'm currently not eligible to get any more student aid at this time from my government, even if their loan maximum was enough to cover international student fees, and it's not.


I agree that this issue is being refocused away from being a 'reluctant LIW', and that's misleading.


I don't understand what isn't clear

-- I'm being 'shuffled' into a marriage when I'm not ready to be married. I have issue with this. I don't want to be married yet. I am reluctant to get married. I love the man, but I'm not sure I want to be a wife yet.

This really hits home with me.

In July/Aug 2004, after knowing each other for 1.5 years and dating a bit less than that, we discussed getting married. I cried. Really cried. We agreed to find another way. Work visa was a no-go and his parents even own their own business!! That's how hard and complex a work visa is. University was a possiblity at the *small* cost of around $80,000 in loans for a 2 years masters degree...not including room or board...and if I got the loan and a university accepted me. Which was also a huge chance considering that I do social work which is quite different in the US vs UK with both wanting experience in your chosen country before they accept you.

So marriage it was. During our 18 month engagement I attempted to break up with him a couple of time and threatened to send him the ring back 3 weeks before I moved. Each time was a 3am his time call with me wailing, "I can't do this, I just can't do this."

I felt trapped, as though I didn't have a choice. The government was already taking great pride in pulling us aside at the boarder to question the crap out of us. It's seriously marriage or break-up. More frequent trips don't help calm your nerves because the more frequent the trips, the more immigration gets scared that you'll marry without the proper visa and settle without their approval.

So, like or not, it does start to feel forced. And the kicker is, he really can't help you. I have a very understanding, loving, caring partner who has gone to get pains to get me comfortable. I know and adore his friends. My foods are ready and waiting. If I had a bad day he acknowledges that as much as he hates the taste and bright orange colour, kraft mac & cheese is my comfort food and makes it for me.

But he still can't help. I'm the one with the visa, with no friends of my own, whose plane tickets home cost a butt-load. I've come to the belief that no couple fights near as frequently as a couple where one has immigrated, and not necessarily by total choice based on rules and regulations.

When you don't feel in total control, all of a sudden you want that control back. I think I would have been more fine with marriage and and idea of marriage, but I didn't get that choice at all. The government has ALL the control. When you can marry. When you can work. How much many visits to the US consoluate, medical exams, and money you have to spend to even have permission to live with a loved one. And the cost of visa. Even when you can go home, how often, and how long you can stay. These are your parents for crying out loud...but the government gets to screw with your relationship with them as well.

Others get to chose these things. They make a decision to move in together and get married without consulting their governments. They pick their wedding date based on friend's schedules and flowers that are in season. Immigrants pick their wedding date on when the government says jump as well as what time, in the three month period you are given, works best. Forget if you dreamed of having a fall wedding and the government grants your visa in the January...a fall wedding isn't happening, there's no bargining with immigration. Rather than having just the typical family issues you get to deal with immigration and families not understanding immigration. Immigration is the 3rd person in your relationship. The trouble maker who starts problems with everyone else involved in or connected to your relationship.

Do you love the questions yet? How long have you been together. How did you meet. Have you ever been a part of the Nazi party. Do you plan to work. Are you a good tax payer. Do you plan to use our non-exsistant medical coverage for your own. Oh yes, and let us do a medical exam and ask you even more personal questions about your life.

So I wavered...a lot. And I'm still not sure. I went on holiday shortly after we got married with a friend who was studying abroad in Germany before she went back to the US. We stayed at hostels and I was asked numberous times where I was from. I had never before felt so homeless, like a trader, and like a good little wife all at once. I'm from the States, pick to live in the UK because I like it better, and, oh yeah, I moved because I got married. Moved to get married. Words I *NEVER* thought I'd utter. That's what happens in the movies and I make fun of the main character for giving up her life for the guy. The guy always gets the girl, why not the other way around?

And it IS a HUGE deal. Moving is absolutely HUGE. You blink and your life is different. I don't know the cultural differences between the US and Canada so much, but the fact that they both speak English and were once in the Comonwealth doesn't help at all.

TV shows, way to apply for a job, driver's licence rules, small language differences that are actually bigger than one thinks, amount of holiday, how to get health insurance, the way news is presented, how to spell words, expectations in society, weather, how to buy/rent a house, how to open a bank account...all of it changes. Like you, the food is the hard thing for me. I think because it's the comforting thing. A bank acount isn't so much comforting

I mean, you're not gonna find Tim Hortons in TX!!

If I want to complain or comiserate with someone, I can't. My friends are in a different time zone and understand *nothing* about immigration. To them, immigration is just poker-faced people they have to go through to get to a cool desination while on holiday. To me, immigration, pleasing them, and obeying their rules is my life for the next 3 years to get citizenship. His friends get nothing of how hard it is for me to find a job and friends of my own. We, as a couple, are stuck in this exclusive club that very few people seem to understand, none of the people who do being real life people to talk this through with. And even in the club, it's split. The movers and the movees. Both parts of a couple seem to have such different experiences and have trouble relating to each other...great way for a relationship to go right after getting married, huh?

Just like the difference between moving and marriage isn't seperatable, the different between the excitement of continuing your life with someone you love and the fear that makes you want to tell him to piss off, life was easier without him, and curl under your covers isn't seperatable.

 

[ladykemma]

gala - is there any way you could make your way to lubbock texas to see it, before you make up your mind? you are making huge generalizations without scoping out the territory for yourself.

and while there might not be top notch sushi, there is fantastic mexican food, and "home cookin", and austin is just down the road when the right wing republican mentality gets on your nerves. and skiing and snow just over the border in new mexico.

texans are "in your face" warm and friendly. you will make friends here to hang out with. You can make a beautiful flat for yourself. we can garden nine months out of the year. home is where you hang your hat.

yes, lubbock is not a garden spot, i think you can find happiness there, it will just be a different kind of happiness. There is an active costumers guild in the area (society for creative anachronism), which will make you happy. you can make money sewing, if you want too and that will give you something to do. we have lots of historical reenactors and events.

think of it as 'camping out". you can choose to be happy wherever you are.

I too am trapped in texas - permanently. I work with a bunch of aggies, with the same conservative republican ideas that i think you keep referring too. just remember that for every republican there is someone just like me, and ready to be your friend. you will find like minded people especially on a college campus.

edited for clarity and to add statement

half of texas is us liberals!

 

[Mandarine]

Me again...

I just saw what confused me about this thread while I was reading some of the responses.

Ladykemma is telling you to be open minded about Texas (I 100% agree with her) and aljdewey is telling you you are just not ready for marriage (I 100% agree with her too)

So here is where I get confused because I think we're mixing the two.

Are you truly reluctant because you feel you are getting on the conveyor belt?. If this is the case Lubbock or San Francisco would be the same. Yes, you would like one better than the other....but you're still getting married to get there which is what you are saying you're not ready to do.

So in my mind you are using the location as an excuse for feeling reluctant...because there is NOTHING you can do about changing that location vs. understanding the location is not the problem and the problem is getting married, and there is something YOU can do about that.

I'm not saying don't get married....but if you feel like you need more time...then it's time you start really listening to the little voice inside you to see what it is telling you.

M~

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 10/21/2006 9:15:40 AM
Author: Mandarine
So here is where I get confused because I think we''re mixing the two.
Are you truly reluctant because you feel you are getting on the conveyor belt?. If this is the case Lubbock or San Francisco would be the same. Yes, you would like one better than the other....but you''re still getting married to get there which is what you are saying you''re not ready to do.

So in my mind you are using the location as an excuse for feeling reluctant...because there is NOTHING you can do about changing that location vs. understanding the location is not the problem and the problem is getting married, and there is something YOU can do about that.

Wow, Mandarine - pretty astute!

Gala ... maybe you should break down the issues little by little using the ol'' "what if" technique.

WHAT IF Canada had some crazy law that required people to get married asap or stop dating. You got to stay in your same town, job etc ... WITH your FF ... same friends etc. Would you "be ready" to get hitched THEN? If not ... nothing else matters ... Lubbock, Moving, America, Sushi ... all of it is just "catastrophication" of the situation (blowing it up further for dramatic effect/heightening/distraction purposes).

I think you may be clouding the issue subconciously because you don''t want your own answer. But maybe you shouldn''t be afraid of it. Maybe you''re NOT ready right now ... but six more months of absense .. dating only ... might MAKE you ready. Might light your full desire to hitch on up. Or confirm your desire to stay put.

Also love what Ladykenna said about Texas (road-trips to Austin, college towns, re-enacters, like-minded folk everywhere). FWIW ... my Aunt & Uncle lived in IRAN for a few years early in their marraige. Yikes! During the BAD period. Hands being chopped off etc. There are PLENTY of places "worse" than Lubbock even if it is the "mostest grossest conservative place in the whole dang world".

 

[ladykemma]

i would follow my hubby to the ends of the earth, within reason.

that said, i refused when he had a job offer in plano, texas. plano and sugarland make my skin crawl.

 

[galeteia]

Thank you, Larrissa. You really hit the nail on the head. You're right-- other people don't understand. I don't mean to insult anyone who echoed those thoughts, but people just constantly assume there is some other way, and some can even be rude about it. (Not you folks, of course) It's not a matter of being a 'downer debbie' there is just literally no other option they don't understand what it's like to have a gigantic (hostile) bureaucracy deciding if and when you make one of the biggest decisions of your life. And it is a make-or-break situation, because if I back out of this application, it is very unlikely we will get another one passed. They are on 'the lookout' for people who are trying to repeat-file, thanks to all the immigration scams out there. They really make it difficult.

Ladykemma, Mandarine, Deco, thank you for your comments. I can see how it looks like I'm more worried about where I am going rather than what circumstances I'm going under, but the location is just icing on the cake for me. I'm agreeing it has bearing because it will be an EXTRA stress ontop of the the 'forced marriage' issue. If I lived somewhere nearer to the border, my family/friends could easily come visit me. As it is, I feel like I will be moored on an island with only FF for company. (It won't be all bad-- apparently a gay guy works in his lab, so there will be someone I can relate to) But I will still be a stranger in a strange land who came there under circumstances that I'm not happy about. He's doing a PhD down there-- we'll have plenty of grounds for stress in our relationship on that alone. (I'm thinking Indie could attest to that.)

And this may seem like splitting hairs, and I apologize, but unless the Mexican food down there has no cilantro, wheat, or peppers, I can't eat it. I know as it is, I couldn't eat at any of the Mexican restaurants in KY because there just wasn't anything I could eat on the menu that didn't have peppers or cilantro in it. (The list of allergens goes on, but I'll spare you the litany.) And 'down home cookin' while it's something I enjoy, it usually has flour in it, and worse, wheat flour. No-go. My diet is rice, veggies, and protein, because it's one of the few grains I can digest.

And to 'look at this another way' if he was going to school in, say, Ohio or Vermont, we wouldn't be getting married at all. We'd do the long distance thing with frequent visits. If he was close enough to visit even once every few months, we would be going that route. But he isn't. He is a long, long way away-- an expensive plane ticket away, in fact.

And ultimately, it is just a few years out of my life. Home is where you hang your hat, and I have that attitude myself, and after all I'm not settling there. I will be stuck there however with a husband who is too stressed out and busy to drive me anywhere, (I don't drive-- driving phobia. We're hoping to work on that; Texas has lots of places where I can freak out mid-drive and not hit anyone

) and there apparently isn't much to do down there... although the costuming info is definitely exciting! All reports so far have been alarming.

But again, that isn't the point. If he wasn't where he was, or at such a distance, we wouldn't be getting married at all. Larrisa, I have a feeling I may put FF through something similar-- panicked protests that I'm not ready, that I don't want to go, or even that I want to break up.

I'm trying to minimize the impact on him right now, but I'm not sure how long that will hold once the paperwork picks up speed and I have to face immigration officers ALONE, since he can't come up here to be with me at the interview. I am the one who has to convince them that I'm getting married because we want to get married. Eeek.

In this case the 'where' is also the 'why'. At this point, I think the decision is either walk through the door or close it forever. Immigration isn't keen on 'second chances'.

 

[Mara]

My two cents...

I would definitely follow Greg somewhere if we had to move for a great job or some other 'requirement'. Not just if he said 'hey I'd really like to live in Timbuktu, so lets go'...but if there was a real reason behind it, like there is for you in this situation Gala. A requirement that is.

I live in California. I *love* it here. We talk about moving. I don't know if I could really ever do it! I have been born and raised in Northern CA. People here are liberal, open-minded, diverse, accepting. The weather is great most of the time and the food is phenomenal. My family is all nearby and we see them all the time. We travel to other states and I like to visit but I don't know that I'd ever want to actually LIVE there. I'm sure some others feel the same way about California. It's hard to think about leaving a place if you love it, regardless of where it is.

But if we had to move...I could do it. Greg is my husband and I love him. My family is with him and Portia. My first loyalty is to our family ...within reason of course. But does me thinking 'well gosh I won't be able to eat the kinda food I want...or hang out with diverse individuals...or do XYZ or ABC if we move to Timbuktu' mean that I won't go? No way! I married this man, for better or for worse and worse might include living in Timbuktu with no one but him and our dog for company.

But hopefully not forever.

I think it's wonderful that you and I have been so spoiled that we live in such great places we adore. But I do agree that there is a whole other world out there and while I don't know that I would super actively look to leave California.. (though I have been looking around elsewhere)...but I know I'd make it and BE FINE elsewhere as long as I had the right attitude and I had Greg with me. Stuff like food, or shopping or whatever is just the fluff of life...it really is. It's great to have it but it should not make or break a 'requirement' decision.

Just my two cents. Now this is coming from a gal who may never leave N.CA because I'm just too darn spoiled here. Greg could probably live elsewhere, he's from the EC and has lived in a bunch of places...so he's more 'adaptable' mentally. I could do it, but I don't know if I want to. And since I don't *HAVE* to then we just kind of think about it. But if it was 'do or die' then I'd have to put up and move. And have the right attitude about embracing my new life.

Honestly I think if you cannot do that, then it's tough to say you are ready for marriage and that kind of marital mental support that you might be required to have from time to time...where it may be a decision you don't 10000% agree with but maybe it makes most sense for 'your family'..aka you and him. It really does have to be a partnership and compromise is a huge part of it. But not sure if you are willing to compromise on what seems like such a huge issue for you. And you have said several times that you would not be getting married if you did not HAVE TO. So to me that also raises the other red flag which Alj raised and you did not really acknowledge...which is...to be pushed into something like this you do not really want just to be with the man you love in a place you dislike, well it may not be enough for you..and you may end up bitter and unhappy in TX or wherever because it's not what you wanted. The marriage...not just the food or the people.

Good luck!

 

[jas]

Gala -- I''m so sorry...it seems like all of these "life stressors" are so intertwined that you do not have the luxury of separating them and dealing with one stressor at a time. Which is stressful.

It also seems to be the interconnectedness of it all...you have a cascade going on here...it''s hard to do an If a then b because a, b,c,d and q are all one giant mishmosh. Your whole definition of home is going to be challenged by this process...yes, it''s where you hang your hat, but now your hat hook is in a different country, in a place that may or may not be comfy for you politically/socially, and your hat will be next to your FI''s hat. It''s still home, but it''s very different and may or may not be the home you want.

And you can''t tell if it''s the home you want because all the hat hook issues are mishmoshed.

That makes a lot more sense in my head. Forgive me.

Icky.

I can only offer hugs and maybe I can send you some sushi from Chicago. We just went last night to the best joint in town.

Keep talking it out...it helps!

Jackie

 

[hlmr]

Date: 10/21/2006 11:32:28 AM
Author: Mara

It''s hard to think about leaving a place if you love it, regardless of where it is.

But if we had to move...I could do it. Greg is my husband and I love him. My family is with him and Portia. My first loyalty is to our family ...within reason of course. But does me thinking ''well gosh I won''t be able to eat the kinda food I want...or hang out with diverse individuals...or do XYZ or ABC if we move to Timbuktu'' mean that I won''t go? No way! I married this man, for better or for worse and worse might include living in Timbuktu with no one but him and our dog for company.

But hopefully not forever.

And since I don''t *HAVE* to then we just kind of think about it. But if it was ''do or die'' then I''d have to put up and move. And have the right attitude about embracing my new life.

Honestly I think if you cannot do that, then it''s tough to say you are ready for marriage and that kind of marital mental support that you might be required to have from time to time...where it may be a decision you don''t 10000% agree with but maybe it makes most sense for ''your family''..aka you and him. It really does have to be a partnership and compromise is a huge part of it. But not sure if you are willing to compromise on what seems like such a huge issue for you. And you have said several times that you would not be getting married if you did not HAVE TO. So to me that also raises the other red flag which Alj raised and you did not really acknowledge...which is...to be pushed into something like this you do not really want just to be with the man you love in a place you dislike, well it may not be enough for you..and you may end up bitter and unhappy in TX or wherever because it''s not what you wanted. The marriage...not just the food or the people.

Good luck!

Galateia, I really think you should take these words to heart....especially the highlighted section.

Marriage involves supporting each other through difficult situations and making sacrifices when necessary. I have moved many times with my DH, and lived in places that I didn''t really want to, with no family support and no friends (and without donairs and meat egg rolls

) . You have to make the best of these times during your relationship and know that it won''t be that way forever. I am sure you will eventually make friends and that you will find food that will be enjoyable, but you have to go into this with a positive attitude, or your feelings of doom and gloom will result in a self fulfilling phophecy.

I wish you happiness, but perhaps this is not the road you should take at this time in your life. Search your heart, be truthful with yourself, and you will find the answer.

 

[firebirdgold]

What is he doing to reassure you??

I''ve had my fears on moving in and marriage, and we''ve talked about them and figured out how to address them. Concrete plans. We''ve also been considering moving to a very gloomy part of the northwest, which could be a real hazard to me as I''m bipolar. I worry about getting seriously depressed, partic since I''d be so far from anyone I know but he''d be closer to friends and family. We''ve also come up with a plan to address those concerns. But even better than the plans is the knowledge that he will be mindful of my emotional issues and make a real effort to be supportive. I''d be making a sacrifice to move, but he''d be matching it in putting me first in some ways to make sure I''m happy.

I guess it''s just down to a blind leap of faith for you. But it''d be nice to be confident that he''ll be there to catch you.

And the thesis writing is the worst part of Ph.d hell. It was worse for us as he only had one semester to write his and he had a full time job.

Get him to promise that you''ll have regular ''couple nights''.

 

[ladykemma]

this IS a bad scene. she doesn''t drive. in texas. trapped and dependent.

 

[Larissa]

3 things

1 - Some of you have said that you would move to the ends of the earth with your husband. But that's not the same. Really, it's not. You would be moving *together*. Most of your fears would be addressed *together*. This is not the case when one member of a couple can't completely and totally understand where the other is coming from...and when only one is giving up life to move the other can't understand no matter how hard he/she tries.

2 - He can't, past a degree, comfort her. Really seriously can't. Concrete plans don't hold up. He doesn't know how to make her friends, get her involved, or even when her work visa will clear. We had concrete plans. Then our apartment rejected our lease because they wanted us both to have jobs (I couldn't work yet, idiots, refer to my visa!!). Then my visa got delayed. Then we realised that driver's license rules weren't what we had understood them to be when we researched. Our set-in-stone plans went up in smoke.

3 - There is absolutely no telling how you will react to anything. Which makes it even harder for him to provide comfort or concrete plans. I didn't cry when my best friend left after the wedding, however, I sobbed when we were grocery shopping one day. I was (am?) horribly volitile. It's like having PMS at all moments. One second I'm happy and love my new country. Another minute and I'm sitting on our hallway floor shaking and crying over something small like not having the US to UK adapter for my ipod. Seriously, an adapter will set me off if it's a bad day. Not kidding. And because he has the correct adapter, he doesn't understand.

I disagree that all this means that you aren't ready for marriage. It's a TON to think about. Your entire life will be changing in a way that most people can't even dream of (and it'd probably be more like a nightmare anyhow)!! I was told several times that I must not be ready for having such strong second thoughts. And maybe I wasn't ready, who knows. If I had a dime for everytime I felt ready to call it quits, I'd be rich. We'd finally be able to afford a house. But that's the thing, *we'd* finally be able to afford a house.

If you ever ever need someone to talk to who will not sugar coat marriage, immigration, and moving, and someone will never tell you might not be ready because I know just how hard a decision this is, please feel free and welcome and open to speak to me if you think it will help.

 

[Mandarine]

Larissa,

I think it''s great you can relate and I''m sure that it''s comforting for Gala to know that someone knows what she''s going though....but the "speak to me" line just sounded as if nobody else could relate one way or the other or were not giving worthy advice. I think a large majority of us here have left our countries. I don''t cry over little things (actually never really cry about being here), but I do miss home and being surrounded my my big family.

I don''t think anybody is telling her she''s not ready without a reason for saying that. Gala is the one that has said, in this and some other threads, feels she''s not ready...at least not right now...and how she wished she had more time.

I''m all adviced-out..hehe..I''m not that good about giving advice anyway!. I do think however that the location vs. marriage has clouded what she really feels. If he was living in San Francisco (or any other city that matched her a little better and was far away enough that visiting for a reasonable price was not an option) would she still feel reluctant?. My feeling is, she wouldn''t...she would actually go...so in my OWN opinion this is more about how much she hates the location.

M~

 

[onedrop]

Gala: I had this whole long post typed out and erased everything I said. Now I will say only this, you''ve got a boatload of opinions and advice in this thread and they are all valid and heartfelt. But Larissa''s posts give you a really clear example of what you may experience because she has been exactly where you are. She is spot on in saying that very few people including your FF will understand your situation and all you are going to go through if you make this transition. Consider what she has gone through/is going through and decide if you''re ready to accept those feelings as your life for a while. It may help in making a decision.

I feel really terrible that you have to be in this situation. And I completely understand your frustration with the chocies that must be made in order for you to be with the guy you love. As far as moving to Lubbock, that might be manageable. But getting married when you really don''t want to is much less so. I totally agree with what aljdewey said about timing. It sounds like you have met the *right* guy, but maybe right now, given your feelings, marriage might not be right. Just my thoughts.....

 

[Larissa]

Date: 10/21/2006 4:15:28 PM
Author: Mandarine
Larissa,


I think it's great you can relate and I'm sure that it's comforting for Gala to know that someone knows what she's going though....but the 'speak to me' line just sounded as if nobody else could relate one way or the other or were not giving worthy advice. I think a large majority of us here have left our countries. I don't cry over little things (actually never really cry about being here), but I do miss home and being surrounded my my big family.


I don't think anybody is telling her she's not ready without a reason for saying that. Gala is the one that has said, in this and some other threads, feels she's not ready...at least not right now...and how she wished she had more time.


I'm all adviced-out..hehe..I'm not that good about giving advice anyway!. I do think however that the location vs. marriage has clouded what she really feels. If he was living in San Francisco (or any other city that matched her a little better and was far away enough that visiting for a reasonable price was not an option) would she still feel reluctant?. My feeling is, she wouldn't...she would actually go...so in my OWN opinion this is more about how much she hates the location.


M~

Changed at your request.

But I seriously didn't mean it that way...which is why I said "please feel free to speak to me." Not "only speak to me". Taking it out of context like you did to just say "speak to me" changes the entire meaning.

 

[Maria D]

Galateia, I did what you are contemplating doing in reverse. Boyfriend and I met and dated in Long Island, New York. One big difference is neither of us were from the area so we didn''t have family there; both of us moved there to work after college. He got a work transfer to Toronto. The fastest way I was going to be able to work in Canada as to get married. We did, I had my work visa within 8 months.

Toronto is a wonderful city (that I still dearly miss). I couldn''t WAIT to get out of Long Island at the time -- even though I loved it for the 5 years I lived there, I''d had enough. I was going to change careers from engineering to industrial marketing at the time so I was going to be looking for a new job anyway. Very different set of circumstances than what you are experiencing in terms of career and location "wants." And yet -- it was still a *very* difficult transition when we first moved to T.O. I knew no one; hubby had work colleagues. He got to travel back to NY once a month (for work) and see old friends. Since I wasn''t working those first 8 months, we couldn''t afford for me to fly home and visit friends/family. I felt like all I had was DH; which isn''t enough. And mind you, he had a regular job, not a PhD thesis to write.

What got me through the transition? T.O. is a great city; I absolutely loved it. I was busy looking for a new job in a new career -- and I didn''t mind doing htis because I''d be doing it anyway. There was actually a lot more opportunity for me in T.O. than there was in L.I. My new husband had plenty of time to spend with me so it was an adventure. I ended up getting a job that I loved. Later, we had our daughter and I can''t imagine a better place to be a stay-at-home mom.

Just some food for thought -- that it''s a tough transition to make a move solely for a loved one even when you move to a place that you end up loving. I''m not trying to bring you down even further, but if I were you, I''d probably wait the four years.

 

[Mara]

larissa, i'm sure you did not mean it to sound this way, but you guys are not the only people to ever have moved into another country or another life. i know a handful of people who left other countries to come here, with or without a mate and they are able to make it work. and be happy, and end up loving where they were at for the next few years. but maybe they didn't have such a hatred or preconceived notion in their head to begin with, who knows. one of my old coworkers moved here with her husband from the UK, their whole life and family is there and they own a house here and his job moved him here and she came and she likes it okay but she knows it's not for forever.

and maybe i am missing something, but how is this not about them doing it together? sure SHE is moving but his life is changing too. i would venture to say there are huge changes for the both of them upcoming and in store.

my husband has lived all over, if we moved from here and went somewhere else *I* would be the basket case, not him. so in essence i would be in a somewhat similar situation, loving where i am from but having to go elsewhere for the man i love for some 'requirement' that made us have to move/leave, and he'd probably love the change since he doesn't care about CA necessarily or have to live here, but i'd be the one freaking out mentally about it and not sure if i could make it anywhere else. so in a way i can relate...to certain points...maybe not all of them. and i'd still try to be positive about it because *fully and completely* i'd want to be with my husband and make that compromise that might be necessary even if it's totally not what i'd like to be doing.

anyway, all the opinions here are valid whether or not these people have lived through the same drama, and i think that all of them should be listened to because sometimes it takes someone OUTSIDE of the situation or outside of a similar situation to see things that people who are in the thick of it might be missing. forest through the trees if you will. and many people here have life experiences that can be helpful, and advice that might miss something someone else noticed. in any case, i almost feel like sometimes gala only focuses on what she wants to focus on in a thread or similar...aka i don't want to move to TX when the big issue might really be she's just plain flat out not ready to get married. which she did say earlier, but hasn't really addressed that again. so for me it's not just about TX or america or whatever, but it's about is this really what she WANTS in her heart? because otherwise, i just wouldn't do it. you have to be on board one thousand percent to not be bitter about a life change like this later.

 

[aljdewey]

It just seems to me that everyone is focusing on the location issue, and I honestly don''t think that''s really the issue at all.

If it weren''t so far away, they wouldn''t be getting married at all right now. To me, that''s the issue. She has said she''s not ready to marry now, and yet she feels forced into a "take it NOW or leave it" position. If it was VT or closeby, she could swing the relationship as a RELATIONSHIP, not as a marriage.

I think the TX thing is just insult to injury. Not only will she have to do this before she feels really ready, but she cannot even console herself with saying "well, it''ll feel like a big vacation for a while, cool place, I''ll find lots to do."

But in my heart, I honestly don''t think location coolness or lack thereof is the real issue.

As evidenced by many in this thread, when you''re committed (or ready to commit) to someone, the location becomes a secondary issue. Not a NON-issue, but it''s a temporary thing. The sense I get is that Gala hasn''t really decided she wants to commit yet (because she doesn''t really care much about marriage, would be happy to live together without marriage, etc.)

It''s hard enough to move to someplace you''re less than enthusiastic about when you really WANT to marry and have to go to be together (which my Mom had to do when Dad was in the service), but it''s unbearable when you have to do it if you aren''t ready for the kind of change that marriage is.

It''s not that I don''t understand how traumatic it is to up and move around; my dad was in the military. I know a thing or two about moving to hellholes. That said, if my (now) husband had to move to one of those dreadful places for a period of time, I''d suck it up and go and see it as a temporary thing. But that''s because I WANT marriage and all that comes with it.

The location is not the issue, in my mind. She doesn''t WANT to get married right now. She likes being single, and she likes being independent.

For the record, I''m not telling you not to get married. I''m saying "don''t do it unless you WANT marriage....unless you clearly want it in your heart." Circumstances (his degree, moving, etc.) cannot *make* you want it. If you want it, then you want it. If you don''t, even the impending separation, etc. cannot hasten you to want it. You either do or you don''t.

 

[aljdewey]

Larissa, I''m not "telling HER" she''s not ready.

It''s not my assessment that she''s not ready. It''s HERS.

SHE''S telling *us* she''s not ready. She has said it over and over.

And it seems like no one is listening to her when she says it.

 

[galeteia]

Date: 10/22/2006 12:04:16 AM
Author: aljdewey
Larissa, I''m not ''telling HER'' she''s not ready.


It''s not my assessment that she''s not ready. It''s HERS.


SHE''S telling *us* she''s not ready. She has said it over and over.


And it seems like no one is listening to her when she says it.

Thank you.

You are defintely seeing to the heart of the matter.

I was getting a little frustrated because it DID feel like no was was ''hearing'' me and instead was focusing on the wrong thing. I was a little surprised Mara said I hadn''t addressed what you said previously, because I felt like I was saying over and over: "I''m not ready to be married. I''m not ready to give up singlehood. I''m not ready. Did I mention I''m not keen to marry? P.S. I''m reluctant to get married. I wouldn''t even consider marriage if he was close by."

Yes, the location issue has clouded things, but the bottom line is still the same. If he wasn''t where he was, we wouldn''t be going this route.

You are absolutely right about it being only ''insult to injury''. You are right about a great location softening the blow of the unhappy circumstances, as opposed to just stressing us further.

Larrisa, I got a taste of those ''alien moments'' when I was with him down in KY. I was fine until one day while grocery shopping, when I freaked because I couldn''t find any decently healthy bread. It''s wasn''t the big things, it''s the little things that got me. I appreciate you sharing your experience, as you have ''been there'' and had a similar ambivalence about marriage.

I just got home from a 12 hour shift, so I''m a little spaced. I''m going to unwind a little and then come back to post further.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 10/22/2006 12:57:04 AM
Author: Galateia

Yes, the location issue has clouded things, but the bottom line is still the same. If he wasn't where he was, we wouldn't be going this route.

So herein lies the problem: You want a "relationship' with him.....but that's all you're ready for. A relationship. Not a marriage.....not yet anyway. Your relationship at this point is still in its infancy, you said.

The problem is that you don't have time to let the relationship develop because there's no time - he's gone for 5 years.

Your choices are 1) marriage or 2) no relationship at all---at least right now. And you don't want to do either. Those are the only options right now (and for the foreseeable future)---unless your relationship can survive and thrive on LD basis. Five years is a LOOOOOOONG time to do that, though, and I'm not sure many people could withstand that.

So, you need to decide what to do. I'm guessing that you *want* to be ready now---because the opportunity is here now. Now or never. The truth is, you wouldn't be marrying him if you could remain in a relationship with him.

If you wouldn't marry him now if he were able to stay in Canada, then you shouldn't marry him now just because he's leaving. That's not the right reason to marry. At times, marriage can be an enormous challenge under the *best* of conditions---when both people know they want to be in it. And even then, sometimes it doesn't work. It only gets harder if you aren't both *super* sure you want to be in the marriage.

If the opportunity is now or never, and you're not ready now, then maybe there's a reason. Maybe there's something else you're supposed to do.

There are moments in life where you want a certain outcome.....and you don't get it. At the time, it feels like you are getting shortchanged. Then later, something better happens, and you realize that things worked out the way they were supposed to. You realize that this better outcome wouldn't be possible if you'd have gotten the outcome you wanted previously.

Listen to your instincts.....they aren't wrong.

 

[ladykemma]

sooo, when are you going to tell him?

 

[Mara]

Gala when I said you weren't addressing that...I meant you did not address it where *I* said it in my last post. Because like Alj I agree that is really the heart of the issue. What I was trying to say in my post is that if you were ready for marriage and you wanted to be with this man unequivocally with no questions asked, you would not be as obsessed with location as you are. I really believe that. I think that focusing on 'oh you will love America' or whatever was strong in this thread but to me *I* kept seeing as Alj did you saying I'm not ready, I don't want to get married, if I didn't have to move we would not be getting married.

DING DING! That is the issue at hand. But really only you can decide what YOU want to do about it. The decision is yours. It's a big one. If you are not ready, do NOT force yourself to go. The fact that you already don't love America or Texas or whatever is going to be the symptom of the bigger problem and it's easier to focus on that and obsess about that than the fact that you just plain and simply are not ready and do not want to go. I think you will be miserable over here...even though you will be with your man who you love. The fact that in the last post you said you were freaking out because you could not find any healthy bread or whatever, gosh is that going to be your daily life? Doesn't sound fun to me at all, for either of you. Quick fix? Get a breadmaker and make your own bread, way more healthy...more time consuming...but again if your HEART was really in it, you would not be 'freaking' out about something like bread. Texas does have flour available.

I understand that it's do or die right now, now or not for a really long time. But if you are not ready, you just flat out are not ready! can you get ready right away? probably not. I think you need to look inside yourself and face what you know is the answer. I don't know how much more clear it is for you...you have stated it pretty clearly for all of us here. I agree, be honest with yourself. It will be hard but you will be happier in the long run.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I''ll have to agree with all that Alj and Mara have said here. When I married, we had to move very far away to a very cold climate within this country. I was away from everything familiar to me. It was too far to drive for holidays and too expensive to fly. Because of the weather, people were not outdoors meeting neighbors for much of the year. We lived there for 4 years and thankfully moved when I was 7 1/2 months pregnant...which was not easy either. But I endured the 4 years because I made a commitment to my husband. Marriage is about becoming one, giving up self-centeredness and doing what is best for the family overall. You can find good food anywhere, and you can cook the things you miss yourself. There are like-minded people everywhere, you just have to make the effort to find them.

It was easy for me to see in your posts that you do not want to get married. And if you love this man, you need to be fair to him and tell him that you do not wish to get married now, and maybe never. I think the big question is whether you two want to try the distance thing for 5 years..because you may not be ready to give up your independence then either, marriage or not.

 

[galeteia]

Date: 10/22/2006 1:30:21 PM
Author: Mara
Gala when I said you weren''t addressing that...I meant you did not address it where *I* said it in my last post.

I agree, be honest with yourself.

*blink* I feel a little like we''re all saying "I say red." "Not blue, red!" "Huh? I did say red" "Yo, she said red, not blue" "Yeah, that''s what I said, she needs to realize it''s red." "But but... I did say red!"

Unless my computer ate it (a possibility) I thought the post where you said I hadn''t addressed what Aj mentioned was your first post?

Aj, I didn''t respond to your post right away because I was still absorbing it.

Also, while I do sincerely appreciate the agreement that I''m not ready (oh good, I''m not crazy!), I am confused as to how I am being dishonest with myself... I am openly admitting that I''m not ready. What I''m not clear on is whether my not readiness is worth kissing this relationship goodbye over.

This thread has made it clear that''s the options I''m facing, and I''m grateful for that. I brought it up with my housemate last night, who blurted "What? This is new!" and gave me some good advice, which is helpful both for the fact that she knows me, knows FF, and knows what I''m like when we are together. She also knows all the little details of the overall situation, which is handy. She also suggested that I speak with my mother about it, which I feel ready to do now. That may sound strange, but speaking to my mother is like having one''s head housecleaned, and it will be time to get off the fence when she''s done.

To be contined...

P.S. My housemate hilariously put it this way: "Cold feet are one thing, but your toes look frostbitten. Call your mom."

 

[firebirdgold]

If you want an honest and blunt opinion, here is mine: You''ll regret it. Moving there and getting married before you really want to is a mistake, don''t do it.

 

[galeteia]

Update:

The inside of my head is freshly scrubbed, and I've come to a decision that feels 'right' and I'm feeling calm and happy about it. As my mother said, it's a matter of deciding whether the relationship/adventure is worth the risk.

So I've decided that I will go for two years. I will commit myself to a civil union only. At the end of two years:

A)I will know if I want to stay for the extra two years until he is done before going back to school

or B) I will know for certain that I am ready marry him 'for real' and will go back to school while he finishes his degree, because our relationship will be strong enough to withstand a 2 year separation before we 'tie the knot'

or C) I will know for certain that it isn't working out, and I will go back to school and get on with my life.

My mother agrees that after two years of this 'intensified engagement' I will have found out what sort of marriage we will have. My next step is to have a talk with FF so that we are on the same page. This will go against the expectations of his parents, but he needs to understand the circumstances under which this relationship will happen, and decide if he is in agreement with that. He has already stated that he doesn't see the immigration marriage as a 'real' marriage; in his eyes, the 'real marriage' happens when we exchange rings and vows and have buffalo wings at the reception.

Two years I can manage. I will need to learn how to drive, but I can do so safely and will be taught by a man who is making his career in dealing with people who have anxiety disorders. What better place to learn than somewhere perfectly flat with miles of compacted dirt and no people in sight? The costuming piece, if available in Lubbock, will actually further my 'career' as it will log hours of construction experience.

As it is, I won't need to go down there until this time next year (knock on wood) and that will give him time to learn how to stand on his own two feet without support from his parents or me. He's never had the freedom of being on his own without someone insisting on 'supporting' him, whether he wanted it or no. I think he will also be in place at that time to make his decisions out of strength, as opposed to feeling isolated or dependent.

That two years will be a time of a 'probabtion' where we can find out whether or not this is what we want. All of a sudden, I'm keen on seeing what a semi-arid desert looks like again, and temperate winters.

Things have shifted and it again feels like an adventure, not an exile. I'm off to have 'the talk' with FF; I'll let you know how it goes.

Thank you, everyone, for helping to make this shift happen.

-Gala

P.S. My mother also pointed out I spend 8 hours a day talking to people nonstop. It's not surprising I'm not in the mood to have a long conversation with someone who has been waiting all day to talk with me, especially not a lovey-dovey one. Thanks to all the overtime I've been working, I have even less patience or energy to talk with anyone. After 11.75 hours of negotiating on the phone, I'm in no mood for chatting!

 

[Mara]

lol well okay i was a dumbass, because i meant where *ALJ* said it in her first post and you did not acknowledge it (because you said you were still absorbing it)...not where I said it...I guess alj and I are practically the same person in my head. She IS my twin after all.

anyway, i read your last post and i think that you have come to a wonderful conclusion. question, what is a civil marriage? and how does it differ? i wasn''t aware you had another option that could give you a few years without really being married. that is a great option. check things out, keep an open mind and then see. even in that last post, you definitely had a more sunny outlook. i think that it was the idea of the permanency of marriage which was making you feel trapped and no big surprise, marriage is kind of scary....and if you are not really mentally ready, it''s probably even scarier.

anyway, yay and good for talking to your mom. my mom is the same way, she''s a MOTHER and i think they come with some sort of ''lets delve into the heart of the matter'' button that won''t let you escape before they can see into the back of your brain kinda thing. i typically don''t talk to my mom about problems because well she''s a mom and she has that ''mom blinder'' on...hehe. typically i can work things out on my own mentally or by talking to my husband, but sometimes having that person like your mother who has known you since birth can be helpful insight. anyway, keep us posted.

 

[KimberlyH]

Mara: A civil union is a marriage in the courthouse/on paper marriage without the formal ceremony and hoopla. (Correct me if I''m wrong gal). I had friends do this so that he could have health insurance while in dental school, they married about 4 years after they were married on paper and now have a wonderful life and beautiful baby.

Gala: I''ve been following this thread without piping in as it seemed like you were getting plenty of sound advice and direction. I just wanted to say that it seem like you''ve come to a good conclusion and your writing comes accross much more settled and happy than before. I''m thrilled for you. I moved across CA to be with my now husband to see if we were in it for the long haul, I can''t imagine having had to marry him to be with him when either he or I wasn''t ready. I hope you''re talk with him goes well.

And I can totally relate to the lack of desire for lovey dovey phone talk at the end of the long day. I''m not a fan of the phone to begin with, but having a LDR and a partner who thrives on long conversations when you''ve just spent an entire day interacting with people can be extremely grueling and painful as opposed to fun. Now that we live in the same house he doesn''t call me unless it''s absolutely necessary because the sound of the phone ringing makes me cringe! Best of luck to you.