Ring is ready!! But, quality is not what I expected!! Opinions?

[mepearl53]

This is exactly the situation that is being discussed in the other thread, "Is it ethical to copy someone else's work" This is not ethical and should not have been done in the first place. We are a business that represents many branded designers. Almost to a tee most of the young ladies we talk to that receive knock offs are not happy but will not say anything about it for fear of hurting one's feeling. This is supposed to be the most beautiful presentation that one can do. It is a representation of one's most powerful emotions and expressions of love. It bothers me as a designer to see this happen in the first place.


Bill Pearlman
www.pearlmansjewelers.com

 

[Denise]

After reading this thread for a couple days, I feel I need to clarify a few points. Vatche was closed for a few weeks at the time that I was working with this customer. He needed the ring before Vatche would be able to deliver. I explained to him that we are well known for our custom rings and altough we could not make it identical...we would be happy to help him out and make something similiar. Whiteflash truly values the relationship built with Vatche over the years. They are a great group of people to work with.










Denise


www.whiteflash.com

 

[moremoremore]

give me a break mepearl...what's so unique about that setting? Please.

 

[brandonb]

I just wanted to confirm with what Denise has said. Not one time did WhiteFlash offer to make a replica. I really wanted to get this ring in a week and there was no way that Vatche could do this for me. Denise offered that they could make a ring that would be similar in style to the Vatche that I wanted, but it would have different melee diamonds of different sizes. This was a great alternative for me because I needed the ring quicker and liked the larger melee diamonds!

WhiteFlash and Denise have been nothing short of wonderful. They have always been very attentive and helpful during this entire process!

Thanks,
-Brandon

 

[Greg]

...then what was the issue to begin with?

 

[Rank Amateur]

----------------
the quality does not look very good in my opinion. I wanted the Vatche Royal Crown channel set with melees. They said they could make it for me and that it would look the same. ----------------

Maybe Brandon just needed to sleep on it.

 

[brandonb]

The issuse to begin with was that the ring did not look like what I wanted. I wanted something more like the Vatche Royal Crown and the one they made looked more like a double U prong. Also, I was wondering about the flow of the setting and prongs.

Thanks,
-Brandon

 

[ame]

I like the version made though I don't like how high the setting is. Actually other than the funky tapering where it bulges out the way it does, I think they are all pretty. I like the bands to be all the same thickness all the way around.

YOur center stone is absolutely GORGEOUS.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 7/19/2004 5:54:53 PM Feydakin wrote:





Only going to say it once, you should have bought the original.. What made you choose having it remade over getting an original??

I do like the other ring though.. The center stone is definately set higher which will show it off more.. You are also probably seeing a slight metal color difference that is entirely because of the photos.. Probably a lighting issue when it was taken.. That may be what else is making you not entirely happy..

My guess is you will be happier to see it in person.. It is a nice ring..

----------------

I recall someone recently wanting a Vatche ring with channel set accent diamonds and being unable to get it from Vatche directly. I can't recall, though, if that was Brandon or not. If it was, though, it might answer your question, Fed, as to why he choose having it remade........someone here recently posted that they couldn't get a Vatche Royal Crown with channel set side accents from Vatche.

Brandon, I would also agree with Fed that you should see the ring in person before making any rash decisions. I had a custom ring made for me by WF as well, and the pictures don't do it justice at ALL. In the pictures, the metal looked different than in person. In the pictures, the prongs on my ring looked HUGE and I told Brian I wanted them filed down. He said they would do it if I wanted it, but that they didn't look big in person and offered to let me send it back if it wasn't what I wanted. LIKE ALWAYS.....he was right. The prongs are not NEARLY as large as the pictures made them look.

The camera just cannot see all the nuances the human eye can, so the ring *will* look different in person. I was expecting WOW when I got the pictures, and the pictures weren't quite what I expected. However, when I got the ring.......it literally took my breath away.

If I were you, I'd get a look at it in person before deciding to rebuild it.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 7/19/2004 6:20:16 PM brandonb wrote:





However, I did speak with Denise and she agrees. I would see it up close if I could, but I am 7 hours away from the ring.

----------------

Brandon.....I would respectfully point out that it's probably cheaper for Whiteflash pay shipping both ways to give you a chance to view this ring than it is for them to remake an entire ring. Perhaps they'd be willing to work with you on sending it to an appraiser near you for you to see?

 

[brandonb]

----------------[/quote]Brandon.....I would respectfully point out that it's probably cheaper for Whiteflash pay shipping both ways to give you a chance to view this ring than it is for them to remake an entire ring. Perhaps they'd be willing to work with you on sending it to an appraiser near you for you to see?
----------------[/quote]


Thanks for the advice but I have actually already ordered the Vatche ring through WF. It was the same price, but it will just take a little longer.

Thanks,
-Brandon

 

[windowshopper]

I as picky as they come! and your ring is better than the "original." The head is too short and the stone looks sort of smushed. Yours is awesome!

 

[aljdewey]

"They weren't making a replica for me, they were actually making a ring that looked similar to the Vatche. I wanted to use WhiteFlash because they could use larger, A Cut Above melee diamonds where the Vatche ones were smaller and could not be replaced."

A VERY important distinction and one that Superidealist may want to read very carefully (and perhaps rethink his rush to judgment on where the vendor stands)..................

Brandon didn't want the EXACT Vatche ring.......because he wanted larger accent stones. He cannot *get* that from Vatche.....it's either take what they have or nothing at all.

This type of scenario is one big reason why folks--me included--turn to custom design. We like certain elements of a ring and may be inspired by its look, but we like other features that we cannot get. I know a bunch of folks would like to paint us with the "too cheap to buy the real thing" brush, but that simply isn't always the case.

In my case, I wanted a ring with my center stone (1.24 ct) and two sides (.30 each that I had already purchased).....but I wanted SIX prong for the center. (Try finding that alone - nearly every one of them are 4-prong settings.) I also didn't want the flush look of a 3-stone ring.....I wanted the center stone to be set higher than the sides to showcase it. I also wanted the gallery open for easy cleaning. I wanted heart prongs. I wanted platinum heads but 18K yellow shank.

The closest ring I found (actually, Mara found it) was a 3-stone ring designed by Leon Mege. However, it was a true 3-stone look (so the sides were set higher than I wanted) and the entire ring was yellow gold. I called Leon and told him I loved the general look of that ring, and I was interested in having a *similar* ring made with the two-tone, heart prongs, and low-set sides. His response: "It won't look right - your stones are too small. This ring was a 2 ct center and 1 ct (or 1.5, I forget) sides. I can build a design that you want, but your stone is only $6k in value and the setting will run around $2k, and in most cases, the setting doesn't comprise that much of the value of the ring. Oh, and also keep in mind that that custom work is non-returnable if you don't like the end product." Essentially, he was saying that it wasn't prudent to spend that much on the setting relative to the value of the stone.

I came away from that conversation feeling two things......it seemed as though he was offended or insulted that I envisioned the design with *any* modifications, and it seemed that he was unenthusiastic about working on a commissioned piece for me (which appeared to be related to stone size.....or lack thereof). I came away from that conversation feeling very discouraged and thinking that what I wanted simply wasn't possible. When I told Brian at Whiteflash that I now wasn't sure what to do about my wedding band because my engagement ring design hopes fell through, he said "Of course that can be done." We talked several times before the ring was started to nail down the details, and the finished result is breathtaking. Yes, it was CONSIDERABLY less expensive too, but I went the custom route because it was the ONLY way to get what MY vision was.

The funny thing? Several of you here have asked if the ring was inspired by the LM 3-stone, so apparently, it DOES look "right" even with my smaller stones. Imagine that! /idealbb/images/smilies/2.gif

Oh........and lastly........it's worth noting that the Leon Mege ring was created for someone who liked the Vatche Royal Crown look, but they don't make a 3-stone setting. The LM ring was "inspired" by a Vatche feel, too. I guess we should just brand him too as "knowing where he stands", huh?

 

[Superidealist]

On 7/19/2004 brandonb wrote:
"They said they could make it for me and that it would look identical."

and

"They said they could make it for me and that it would look the same."

and

"...they said that it would look the same..."

and

"I have been expecting it too look like the Vatche, but it is actually a little different."

and

"I just showed her what I wanted and they said that it would look the same if they made it."

and

"About the identical quote...their actual words were, 'Yes, it will look the same.'"

On 7/22/2004 brandonb wrote:
"Not one time did WhiteFlash offer to make a replica."

and

"Denise offered that they could make a ring that would be similar in style to the Vatche that I wanted, but it would have different melee diamonds of different sizes."

You'll forgive my confusion.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 7/23/2004 1:25:48 AM Superidealist wrote:

On 7/19/2004 brandonb wrote:




'They said they could make it for me and that it would look identical.'

and

'They said they could make it for me and that it would look the same.'

and

'...they said that it would look the same...'

and

'I have been expecting it too look like the Vatche, but it is actually a little different.'

and

'I just showed her what I wanted and they said that it would look the same if they made it.'

and

'About the identical quote...their actual words were, 'Yes, it will look the same.''

On 7/22/2004 brandonb wrote:




'Not one time did WhiteFlash offer to make a replica.'

and

'Denise offered that they could make a ring that would be similar in style to the Vatche that I wanted, but it would have different melee diamonds of different sizes.'

You'll forgive my confusion.
----------------

Precisely my point. Just because one person says something doesn't make it so. Even if the story remained consistent throughout, it still wouldn't be fair or equitable to rush to judgment on "knowing where a vendor stands" without going to the source directly. Before presuming we know where a vendor "stands", perhaps it would be nice to ask the vendor directly and get it right the first time.

A side note, too: Common sense should lead a reasonable person to assume precisely the opposite about Whiteflash......that they wouldn't offer to identically duplicate another designer's work. Not only do they produce their own designs, but it's hard to imagine why any designer would allow Whiteflash or ANY vendor to carry their settings if the designer reasonably thought that vendor would actively compete with them.

"Common sense isn't common."

 

[brandonb]

Look the same and making a replica are two different things in my opinion.
(Also, when I first wrote this thread, I didn't think that some of you would get your panties in such a bunch about creating similar rings. I really don't understand what the deal is. I'm not trying to be rude, but some of you(no names mentioned) are extremely over-reacting. It's a freaking ring! How many different ways can you really design a certain style setting? I am sure there are hundreds of rings floating around out there that look like the Vatche. Maybe the Vatche is a replica of some other ring?? Who knows? Who cares? They are beautiful pieces of jewelery and should be appreciated anyway.)

A Ralph Lauren Red polo shirt and a Lacoste Red polo shirt look the same, but is the Lacoste polo a replica of the Polo?

A GE surge protector power strip and an RCA surge protector power strip look very similar, but is one a replica of the other?

I think some of the members here need to relax a little bit. This forum is supposed to be about one of you most beautiful things in the world and all this arguing is ruining many others experience here. Many of us are going through a purchase that will be the most significant of our life and some of you are doing a good job at trying to ruin it.

-Brandon

 

[aljdewey]

Brandon.....perhaps I can help with understanding "what the deal is". What you may have missed is that your post came on the heels of a pretty major (and animated

) discussion (or poll, actually) about the ethics/morality/etc. of having copies made of designers' settings instead of going to the designers.

Some of the comments are residual to that discussion, and your instance (having a ring made that you hoped would look more like a specific designer piece) leads right into that same territory, so it's bound to fuel that discussion a bit as well. I'm sure it's not meant as a personal thing to you.

Please do keep in mind, though, that this is a discussion forum. That means there will be dissenting opinions and exchange of opposing ideas. If this type of give and take *ruins* someone's experience, perhaps this isn't the most logical place for them to be.......just like it's not logical to go to a rock concert and expect to have a quiet, intimate setting to propose in.

Also, a bit of clarification.....this forum is not supposed to be about "one of the most beautiful things in the world" ......although at times it often is. This isn't an engagement forum....it's a diamond forum. It's for consumer's education and exchange of ideas about diamonds. While much discussion does revolve around engagements (because that's a primary call for diamonds), it's not a support group setting and isn't here exclusively for all things hearts and flowers. It's here to help folks learn and exchange ideas....even opposing ones, hopefully done intelligently and civilly.

I assure you that *no one* is intentionally trying to ruin anything for anyone.....that's just not who the people here are. There's a LOT of help to be found here, but if your sensibilities are easily offended, you're swimming in the wrong pool. /idealbb/images/smilies/2.gif

 

[Superidealist]

I'd be more convinced if I saw you taking brandonb to task for slandering Whiteflash.

In any case, I think it's pretty slimy of Whiteflash to offer to create an only slightly modified version of a ring whose designer they represent. I would have more respect for them if they had shown D Vatche the respect of asking that Vatche make the modification themselves.

 

[chialea]

Didn't someone already mention that Vatche won't make that change if asked? I seem to have heard it several times, which would make me somewhat inclined to believe it.

Note: don't jump down my throat -- all the jewelery I own is either estate or custom, and virtually all gifts. My engagement ring is (will be any week now) a very derivitive look, as far as I'm concerned, but it is the name-brand kind of derivitive. I have no stake in this whatsoever.

 

[brandonb]

A few things, I didn't take this personally, but I just thought it got out of hand. I understand about the heated other thread.

When I said this forum is supposed to be about one of the most beautiful things in the world, I was referring to diamonds...not the proposal or engagement.

This hasn't ruined my experience, but it has become really annoying when I keep reading responses to a question I asked and all people can do is badmouth WF, who has been nothing but great to me.

Also, WhiteFlash checked into having Vatche make the changes and they could not. I could not change the channel set diamonds in the Vatche setting.

And superidealist...I'm really not sure what you're really trying to say.

-Brandon

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 7/23/2004 2:03:14 AM Superidealist wrote:





I'd be more convinced if I saw you taking brandonb to task for slandering Whiteflash.

In any case, I think it's pretty slimy of Whiteflash to offer to create an only slightly modified version of a ring whose designer they represent. I would have more respect for them if they had shown D Vatche the respect of asking that Vatche make the modification themselves.
----------------

I don't think it *was* Brandon's intent to "slander" Whiteflash.......and a little common sense would support that. He didn't even *name* the vendor initially, did he? No, he didn't. I think he was simply trying to convey his confusion and disappointment about the end result of his custom job and look for a little guidance with how to proceed.

Therefore, it's not really appropriate to take him to task for slandering Whiteflash. Even if it was, if I was inclined to take folks to task for slandering Whiteflash, I'd have to begin with you considering you materially "slandered" them by presuming to know "where they stand" AND offering that comment with a disapproving tone.

Especially since you are *still* doing it with your last remark about them being slimy.

Please go back and reread the points it seems you missed. 1) Vatche was closed and therefore UNABLE to deliver the ring in the time frame the customer wanted. 2) The client wanted LARGER, ACA melee that could not be substituted in the Vatche ring. 3) They couldn't ask Vatche to make modifications if Vatche was *closed*-----precisely how do you call and ask someone for anything when they aren't available? 4) I've heard multiple times of folks looking to have designers make modifications to their designs only to be told *no*, sorry we only do it THIS way. Considering that Whiteflash has an ongoing and stable relationship with Vatche (to the point of going to their shop personally more than once), I'm sure they are better versed than we are as to what Vatche will and won't do regarding custom work.

"Common sense isn't common."

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 7/23/2004 2:20:06 AM brandonb wrote:




............ but it has become really annoying when I keep reading responses to a question I asked and all people can do is badmouth WF, who has been nothing but great to me.

Also, WhiteFlash checked into having Vatche make the changes and they could not. I could not change the channel set diamonds in the Vatche setting.

And superidealist...I'm really not sure what you're really trying to say.

----------------

Thank you, Brandon.....that is exactly what I was trying to say.

Mr. Riley seems more inclined at presuming to know things he doesn't and then casting aspersions based on those (erroneous!) presumptions.

What I don't quite understand is why he's so seemingly hell-bent on taking cheap shots Whiteflash, who has earned a stellar reputation here due to a multitude of very satisfied clients.....myself included.

 

[Superidealist]

aljdewey wrote:
Mr. Riley seems more inclined at presuming to know things he doesn't and then casting aspersions based on those (erroneous!) presumptions.

Sort of like what you did in this thread when you took a poster's word and then accused the vendor of attempting to misinform the customer? I'm sorry if I've overlooked your many attempts to contact the vendor to get his side of the story before deriding him. I'm also sorry that I took brandonb at his word (five times). In hindsight, this may not have been wise.

I truly do hope that you enjoy your ring, Brandon.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 7/23/2004 2:20:06 AM brandonb wrote:


When I said this forum is supposed to be about one of the most beautiful things in the world, I was referring to diamonds...not the proposal or engagement.

This hasn't ruined my experience, but it has become really annoying when I keep reading responses to a question I asked and all people can do is badmouth WF, who has been nothing but great to me.


-Brandon----------------

You know - I feel sorry for you. I know you aren't asking for sympathy -but this thread has become ridiculous. No one knows what's up.

All I know is a guy is trying to make a ring of his to be's dream in a timely fashion. Good luck & Please keep us posted!

That said, regarding Vatche & modifications. A couple of people on this board had priced out Vatche modifications. Seems they don't like to do it. The price reflected it. Kinda like the estimate from the painter who doesn't like to work in oil based paint - but if the price is right. At least that what it seemed. Perhaps things are different now. I think one such poster was Dancinggirl.

 

[noobie]

----------------
On 7/23/2004 9:49:48 AM fire&ice wrote:





That said, regarding Vatche & modifications. A couple of people on this board had priced out Vatche modifications. Seems they don't like to do it. The price reflected it. Kinda like the estimate from the painter who doesn't like to work in oil based paint - but if the price is right. At least that what it seemed. Perhaps things are different now. I think one such poster was Dancinggirl.

----------------

I asked Vatche to modify the truffle setting to accomdate larger side stones. It effectively doubled the price. I was supplying all stones. So I went and knocked it off.

Just kidding Dave

It actually did make me look around more and I ended up having something different made which we like a whole lot better. In this case they lost a probable sale with their pricing policies.

Brandon, I hope the ring turns out just as you hoped. Still looking forward to the HoF challenge.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 7/23/2004 10:47:11 AM noobie wrote:

----------------
----------------

I asked Vatche to modify the truffle setting to accomdate larger side stones. It effectively doubled the price. I was supplying all stones. In this case they lost a probable sale with their pricing policies.

Brandon, I hope the ring turns out just as you hoped. Still looking forward to the HoF challenge.

----------------

Your experience has been the same that I have been hearing for two years. Hey, it was my offical two year anniversary yesterday! Didn't notice until after I typed this.

That said, the lack of flexiblity in production makes me wonder about their production. Not a whole lot of creativity there.

 

[noobie]

----------------
On 7/23/2004 10:54:07 AM fire&ice wrote:






That said, the lack of flexiblity in production makes me wonder about their production. Not a whole lot of creativity there.



----------------

I was thinking the same thing while typing, but from a different angle. Standardized production, premium pricing..... equals nice margins

Happy Anniversary

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 7/23/2004 4:47:17 AM Superidealist wrote:

aljdewey wrote:




Mr. Riley seems more inclined at presuming to know things he doesn't and then casting aspersions based on those (erroneous!) presumptions.

Sort of like what you did in this thread when you took a poster's word and then accused the vendor of attempting to misinform the customer? I'm sorry if I've overlooked your many attempts to contact the vendor to get his side of the story before deriding him. I'm also sorry that I took brandonb at his word (five times). In hindsight, this may not have been wise.

-------------

Actually, no......nothing like that at all. In the thread you dug up, you'll notice that the vendor is never named. Given that, it's hard to reach the conclusion that I am trying to slander a specific jeweler or sully one vendor's reputation.

Quite a different scenario from your presuming that you know where Whiteflash stands on the issue of making copies (which you don't) and slinging an arrow at their reputation by calling them slimy with no basis.

 

[Superidealist]

On 7/23/2004 1:41:08 AM aljdewey wrote:
Before presuming we know where a vendor 'stands', perhaps it would be nice to ask the vendor directly and get it right the first time.

 

[Superidealist]

aljdewey wrote:
...calling them slimy with no basis.

Just for the record, I did not call Whiteflash slimy. I called their offer to essentially knock off one of their own designers slimy.

I'm sorry that I don't believe, as you seem to insist I must, that Whiteflash can do no wrong. You have your opinion. Please allow me to have mine.