Sapphire Help Please

[TurtleTurtle]

Hello everybody. First time poster here, and found this forum to be very informative.
I am looking into purchasing a sapphire engagement ring, and was wondering if anyone could help me with one stone I had in mind.
I would just like an educated opinion on color, quality, price, etc. I will of course get whatever I purchase AGL certified, but unfortunately the vendor only provides an origin certificate and my time is limited. Thanks in advance for all your help!

Here are the specs and some photos. The initial photos have a white spec on the corner of the gem. I was advised this was some sort of residue that was cleaned off. There are some other photos without it as well on the bottom.

Gem: Ceylon Sapphire
Treatments: None (unheated)
Size: 8mm x 6mm (1.52 cts)
Price: $3.6K

 

[OTL]

To be honest, I think with 3.6K you can do much better. The sapphire looks overly dark in the photo, and for a 1.5ct sapphire, that price is not competitive. I'm curious who is vendor...

 

[corundum_conundrum]

1. I think the preference in the gem stone "trade" is for stones that are not nearly so dark. I would worry that it would go black in everything but the brightest sunlight.

2. The price is high for a stone that is a color that isn't within a trade-preferred range.

3. This gem is cut in such a way that light is leaking through the center of the stone. See how in you your first picture the edges of the stone are black, and it is a light blue color in the center? This is because light is passing through the stone rather than being reflected back to your eye, in what is know as a "window" or "fish-eye." It actually gives this otherwise dark stone some color, but it means that your stone is not going to be as bright or as lively as a stone that was properly cut.

 

[vickygigi]

I think that price is high. I got over a 3 ct natural (no heat or other tx) sapphire for less. You can do better. Having said that, sapphires are stunning and make a wonderful Ering. Good luck!

 

[LD]

Do you like dark sapphires? Some people do and although that's not what is considered to be a top colour, if it's your preferred tone then that's great because it drives the price down The only issue I would have however is that for a dark sapphire, this seems to be very expensive. Also, who has determined that this is unheated and a Ceylon Sapphire? If it's the vendor then "trust but verify". If it already has a report of some description, have you seen it?

If your preference is for a dark stone my only caution is that once set, stones tend to darken (as less light gets to them). Putting the stone on the back of your hand (as it is in one of your photos) is a good way to replicate this - but it may appear a little darker even than that. If you look at that photo you'll see that quite a good proportion of the gem is black. So I suspect that when the stone is moved around you'll see flashes of blue but overall the "look" will be a very inky dark colour.

 

[corundum_conundrum]

For reference, if you love very very dark stones, you don't need to pay this price.

For example, here is a darker than ideal sapphire (with better cutting and color better than yours). But its priced more appropriately.

http://mastercutgems.com/index.php?page=viewgem&id=6808

I'm not saying you should buy the one i've posted, unless after some soul-searching you decide you are in love with the darker look. Its just a good price-comparison for you.

 

[LD]

CC - that's a nice sapphire for somebody looking for a darker stone.

Just for info - I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure a fish eye and window are two separate things. A fish eye (commonly used in diamond terminology) is when you see a dull/crazed area that is where the girdle facets are reflected inaccurately. A window on the other hand doesn't reflect anything!

 

[corundum_conundrum]

Whoops, you're right LD. "Fish-eye" is referring to a different effect.

I agree about the mastercut gems sapphire--a nice buy for the midnight blue sapphire lover, and priced appropriately unlike OP's stone! (Sorry OP).

 

[TurtleTurtle]

Wow thanks for all the quick replies. I think I am even more confused now than before...lol.
The vendor is Brilliant Earth. The gem doesn't come certified, but I was advised it would be written on the invoice. Since they appear to be a well known retailer with many positive reviews, I didn't feel too wary of trusting them.

I thought that this would be one of the more ideal colors as opposed to completely opaque or light blue/grey/green.

I did look at other vendors recommended here, and the pricing does indeed seem high compared to what I found. But the color for the other gems are much lighter.

Here is another one I found from NSC that matches the gem in question somewhat closely, but the price is a lot higher.

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Blue/B4770/Oval/stoneid=B4770

Can someone explain how color is judged and what goes into pricing. It seems all over the place... Thanks again.

 

[corundum_conundrum]

HOLY COW! They must be joking with the price of that NSC sapphire. That is one for the fish tank.

Here's a buying guide.

http://www.palagems.com/sapphire_connoisseurship.htm#sapphire_buying_guide

 

[LD]

I do feel for you because you're completely right that pricing is all over the place. To make matters worse, when Prince William became engaged to Catherine and "that" ring was resurrected, there was a resurgence in people looking for blue sapphires. Just for reference the sapphire in that ring, surprisingly, is not top colour! If you search threads on here that mention it, you'll see what I mean.

Okay, here's a link written by Richard Hughes (the foremost Ruby and Sapphire expert) that explains a little about colour

http://www.ruby-sapphire.com/r-s-bk-quality.htm

Basically "colour" is made up of hue, tone and saturation - which makes things a little complicated because in life we just deal with colour! Anyway, if you look at the link, you'll see half way down the page a comparison of 4 blue sapphires. #2 is a great colour because it will appear lively and blue. #3 is much darker and shows black areas (you don't want to see too many of these).

When you're looking at a stone, if you want a blue sapphire then it should look blue and have not a lot of black. Because a gemstone is made up of lots of facets, as you move a stone (especially if it's not a light stone), you may see some small areas of black which is basically shading - think of it as being hidden from the sun for a bit.

Of course, the more you go to buying a stone with the colour of #2 it may have a higher price. At the end of the day then you must select a stone with a colour YOU like - NOT what is considered best. If you like the darker colour then the stone CC linked to is great AND it comes with an AGL report so you'll not have to spend money on that.

I hope that helps.

 

[corundum_conundrum]

Somehow I missed that you said your time was limited on the first pass through.

If the stone i linked appeals to you, please email the seller and inquire about it immediately! You don't have to buy it, just tell him you are interested and ask him to put it aside so that someone else won't scoop it up! i would hate to think I posted it and it went to someone else...

 

[airplay355]

http://wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/1086/8285

http://wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/1086/12912

http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_blue.html

 

[chrono]

Nothing against Brilliant Earth but the price is too high for an overly dark, mostly extinct and badly windowed sapphire. What is THE colour for you? Do you have any picture examples of what appeals to you or are you aiming for the trade ideal colour?

 

[distracts]

Yeah Brilliant Earth is pretty well known for being overpriced. And re: that particular sapphire, a friend of mine recently bought a medium colored 1.4 ct with a white gold and diamond setting for about the cost of just that sapphire. And it's almost 1k more than what I paid for my 2 ct (in avatar pic), which isn't ideal color but is certainly a good deal closer than that dark one (and came with a lab report). Nothing against dark sapphires but you shouldn't be paying that much for it. I would say you shouldn't be paying that much for it even if you really like it but maybe I'm cheap lol. At any rate, the only way I would purchase that particular sapphire at that particular price is if you are head over heels in love with it and absolutely no other sapphire will do.

 

[keen]

http://wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/1086/8285

http://wildfishgems.com/inc/sdetail/1086/12912

http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_blue.html

A few on the gemfix page really catch my eye:

This one:

Sapphire "Portuguese" Style Oval
Weight: 3.04 cts
Measurements: 8.6x6.9mm, depth 6.2mm
Clarity: VVS-VS
Origin: Sri Lanka
Enhancements: None
Price: $ 3600.00
Order/Stock No.: sapphire_blue_987
Description: Untreated beautiful medium violet-blue color. Very faint veil off to left side (can you see it?) doesn't detract from appearance. Nice...
(AGL lab report included).
Pantone 286C

and this one:

Unheated Sapphire "Portuguese" Style Cut Oval
Weight: 2.14 cts
Measurements: 7.6x6.4mm, depth 5.3mm
Clarity: VVS
Origin: Sri Lanka
Enhancements: None
Price: $ 3200.00
Order/Stock No.: sapphire_blue_1007
Description: Breathtaking. Not too light, not too dark, excellent medium violet-blue. Absolutely gorgeous. AGL lab report included. (Cut by Andrew Gulij)
Pantone 2726

and this one on the higher end (my favorite):

Sapphire Modified Brilliant Cut Oval
Weight: 3.71 cts
Measurements:10.6x7.9mm, depth 5.7mm
Clarity: VVS
Origin: Sri Lanka
Enhancements: Heat only
Price: $ 5850.00
Order/Stock No.: sapphire_blue_997
Description: Truly one of the most fantastic sapphires I have ever seen. Perfect medium color, not too dark, brilliant and flashy, well cut. If you are looking for the sapphire of a lifetime, this is IT! (Cut by Andrew Gulij)
(AGL lab report included).
Pantone 2728C & 2747C

But, I think I like them a little lighter than you do...Good luck!

 

[minousbijoux]

Turtle: If you don't mind our help, you could give us an idea of what you like and what you're looking for. That way, we can help look for the kind of stone you like. As you may have gathered from reading some of the threads here, people vary in the stones they like so while there is definitely a trade ideal, there are those who like lighter toned, and those who prefer the darker stones. Personally, I love it when people come here liking and seeking stones that are not the ideal, as it is these stones where the good prices are found.

 

[corundum_conundrum]

Personally, I love it when people come here liking and seeking stones that are not the ideal, as it is these stones where the good prices are found.

+1!

 

[corundum_conundrum]

Personally, I love it when people come here liking and seeking stones that are not the ideal, as it is these stones where the good prices are found.

+1!

 

[TurtleTurtle]

Thanks again for all your helpful responses. I do like sapphires from the medium blue (ideal) to the darker blues. I'd like to steer clear of the lighter blues or different shades (green, grey, etc.). I am also leaning towards ovals..

The reason I chose Brilliant Earth is because I really like one of their settings, and do appreciate their socially responsible practices (as far as I know). They have been friendly, but a little slow to respond.

http://www.brilliantearth.com/Sapphire-Adorned-Trio-Diamond-Ring-Platinum-BE149PCD18R6-SB8X6OV/

I'm not a gem snob, nor am I unwilling to pay more for a quality item. I just don't like the idea of paying more than what something is worth (who does?). From all your responses, I am thinking it is probably a better idea to get one of the heat treated sapphires rather than paying the premium for the darker stone above?

The more I learn about sapphires, the more I'm leaning towards seeing a stone in person before purchase if going untreated. And maybe it is an option to just purchase the stone, and let my fiance choose the setting for herself?

I am just outside NYC, so I have also been looking at the NSC, but am concerned their prices are inflated as well.

Here are some other options I have been looking at:

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Blue/B4684/Oval/stoneid=B4684

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Blue/B4824/Oval/stoneid=B4824

http://www.rwwise.com/products/id%7C2011

 

[chrono]

NSC is priced higher than most, while RW is priced out of most people's reality. If you prefer something unheated, you don't have to settle for heated quite yet. The BE stone is cut very poorly and will not sparkle. In addition, it has large areas of extinction where it is mostly black, rather than blue. I would not bother with shipping cost and return to see it in person.

I second the suggestion to check out GemFix. Well cut stones for the most part, realistic pricing, has both heated and unheated sapphires and yes, you can view them in person (good return policy).

 

[corundum_conundrum]

1. Definitely go see some stones in person. However, you may ultimately have to order some stones over the internet and be prepared to return them if they are no good if you want to find a competitive price. Blue sapphires are definitely a stone where you are likely to get gouged at B & M stores.

2. I think you can still get your setting at Brilliant Earth even if you sourced the stone yourself, but you'll have to ask about that.

3. Colored gems do not come with the moral baggage that diamonds do. That's not to say you are improving the world by buying them, but you are not at risk of enabling warlords by buying them. If you search through these threads, I think you will find some experts who have commented on how colored gemstones are not as morally problematic as diamonds. I'm frankly not certain than the chain of purchase of a Brilliant Earth sapphire is any different than other sapphire (unlike their diamonds). But, you would still be supporting a good company if you bought through them, so that might be moral reason enough...

You said time was short. How short exactly?

 

[TurtleTurtle]

My beautiful girlfriend is really against the diamond trade and to a lesser degree the necessity of an engagement ring. She plainly advised me that if I produce a diamond engagement ring she would kick me in the face as I kneel. I had originally set a budget appropriate for such a purchase, but that was scrapped at the idea of losing my teeth. I found Brilliant Earth, and really fell in love with that particular setting. It was a bonus that all their metals are recycled, and their diamonds and colored stones are sourced from mines that possess certain fair trade standards. Unfortunately, they will not use any outside gems, or sell the setting by itself. They claim that each setting is made specific to each order, and they could not trust the integrity of outside stones.

Personally, I would like to purchase the best I could afford for my love. But I have to balance out my tastes and hers. She is very no frills and suggested such things as onyx or some other black stones, and tungsten carbide for wedding bands. I agreed to the wedding bands as I think tungsten carbide is pretty nifty in a nerdy way, but I wanted to get her something more special for the engagement ring, and I feel black stones may be a bit tacky..no offense to anyone.

I am pretty sure she would love the darker sapphire. I just feel after garnering all your opinions, it is priced more than it is worth.
I also don't mind the medium blues, as the first piece of jewelry I bought her was a tanzanite trinket while we were vacationing and the colors are similar.

I have about 3 weeks left in my schedule, and may be considering a ring pop soon....

 

[corundum_conundrum]

That's a very very short amount of time. Finding an immaculate stone by the standards of this board takes more time that you have. But that doesn't mean you can't find something very nice. I would email mastercut gems about the darker blue I suggested, and look at gemfix's website, and order one or two that look really nice to you. If you are dead-set on ovals, then skip mastercut and just order two ovals from gemfix. Then I would look at all two or three side-by-side and return the ones you don't want. I think this is the best strategy given your time constraints.

I wonder if you could find an etsy seller who works in recycled metals. Any suggestions anybody? I would think your ring would be better received by your soon-to-be fiance if it came with a story about its ethically-minded creation, but brilliant earth is making things difficult...

 

[yanaazul]

I wonder if you could find an etsy seller who works in recycled metals. Any suggestions anybody? I would think your ring would be better received by your soon-to-be fiance if it came with a story about its ethically-minded creation, but brilliant earth is making things difficult...

There are many, doing a search for "recycled metals engagement rings." Here are a few that caught my eye -- all of these have at least a hundred sales (of jewelry, not necessarily rings) and have 100% feedback. You could look through their feedback to see their actual sales of rings.

You'll want to contact them and confirm they would take outside stones -- there's one shop that shows up in the search results, that is popular on Pricescope, but also is known that she will only work with her own stones...

http://www.etsy.com/shop/SarahHoodJewelry?section_id=7246405

http://www.etsy.com/shop/FernandoJewelry?section_id=6758197

http://www.etsy.com/shop/daniellejewelry?section_id=10455192

http://www.etsy.com/shop/NodeformWeddings?section_id=10479141

 

[michellechan2211]

I'm not sure if this suggestion would work in 3 weeks, but I'd give Jetflair/Distinction gems a gander: all their stones are ethically sourced and I believe they used recycled metals as well. That said, they have not been very responsive to me and they need 1-3 weeks to get everything done so that is probably not the way to go given your time limit...

Also, at the top of my head, Sarah Hood Jewelry has set another PSer's stone.

 

[chloeishere]

When I read what you've said about your girlfriends tastes, the first thing I thought was, "have you looked at etsy?!" There are LOADS of etsy vendors that work with recycled metals and operate in an eco-friendly manner... and you are also supporting a independent person/artist, not a large corporation or business.

We are not allowed to discuss simulants or synthetics on here, but I trust you know her feelings on them? Does she also not care for the diamond appearance, or is it strictly the ethical reasons that she does not want a diamond? I get the feeling, from your post, that she wants something extremely non-traditional. Have you looked at rough diamond rings, which generally are not made of facet-grade material? There's also many beautiful and unusual rose-cut opaque diamond rings on etsy-- again, it's a diamond, but eco-friendly, so it's not perpetuating the cycle. Some of them I like a lot, but ultimately decided I wanted something more traditionally "pretty."

A lot of people here prefer to source their own stones to get the most beautiful and/or absolute best price. You don't HAVE to do that, and it does add time to the process, so with a 3 week timeline, I'm not sure I'd recommend it unless you've got lots of time the next few weeks!

Just a basic search for recycled metal engagement rings brings up 294 results, most of which will probably lead you to a large number of shops that focus on eco-friendly jewelry: http://www.etsy.com/search?q=recycled metal engagement rings&view_type=gallery&ship_to=US

In terms of people I've interacted with (I was also interested in eco friendly designs), I would recommend these:
This is actually where we got my engagement ring, she is very nice, very talented, and I'm sure could rush something if you want something custom in your short time span: http://www.etsy.com/shop/esdesigns

I didn't purchase from Kristin, she was a out of my price range (primarily due to my high level of customization/ need for a metal she doesn't directly work with), but she was excellent at responding to convos and her jewelry is just beautiful: http://www.etsy.com/shop/kristincoffin?ref=pr_faveshops Sapphire? http://www.etsy.com/listing/109970416/blue-sapphire-twig-engagement-ring-66ct

I've worked with Jill Anish too, and she is wonderful and I'm sure would work quickly to give you what you want: http://www.etsy.com/shop/JanishJewels

You can see I'm a big bezel fan, but there's many talented artists on etsy who focus on an eco-friendly approach, these are just the people I've talked with/ given my money to, and that I can whole heartedly recommend for this sort of project.

Good luck, and congratulations on your near engagement!

ETA: If you DO want to source your own stone, Elizabeth (first shop), Kristen (second shop), and Jill (third shop) ALL take outside stones. I believe Kristen MIGHT charge a $25 setting fee, but that's pretty negligible. Just so you know!

 

[michellechan2211]

Oh, so it wasn't you who worked with Sarah Hood Chloeishere? ^^; Then my bad for the misinformation. .-.

ETA: I've also worked with Yvonne Raley but I don't think she takes customer's stones...

 

[chloeishere]

Oh, so it wasn't you who worked with Sarah Hood Chloeishere? ^^; Then my bad for the misinformation. .-.

ETA: I've also worked with Yvonne Raley but I don't think she takes customer's stones...

I didn't realize you were thinking of me! No, I didn't work with Sarah, I worked with ESDesigns. That doesn't mean someone on PS hasn't used her, though. I was originally thinking of ESDesigns very simple water design, but ended up with a twig style-- there are several artists on etsy that do twig style/ nature inspired patterns.

I did a quick search and didn't see anyone that has worked with SarahHoodJewelry, but that might be the limitations of PS search (which is pretty terrible).

ETA: OP, I have this person in my favorites list, and they have some more ornate styles. Obviously you don't want the black stone, and I don't know if they'll accept outside stones, but they will let you customize what they use... may be worth a look, just to see: http://www.etsy.com/listing/60390110/victorian-solitaire-14k-made-to-order ETA again: they do accept outside stones, it looks like. This rose style is really cool! http://www.etsy.com/listing/84809633/blooming-rose-solitaire-14k-made-to (Again, no personal experience, just seems to match what the OP is looking for).

 

[distracts]

Everyone uses metals that are at least 70% recycled on average, because so much precious metal is recycled. If 70% rather than 100% is acceptable, you can use any jeweler. Many Etsy jewelers use only 100% recycled metal because they scrap and refine it themselves. Re: Colored stones being more friendly than diamonds, I personally have never bought this claim. And we can see that colored stones from Burma are embargoed here for precisely that reason. Brilliant Earth claims to have all their gems ethically sourced but personally I would trust Wildfish Gems or Lisa Elser more (they have much more appealing selections, anyway). But one of those three or a lab created stone would be my options if I was needing an ethically-sourced gem. (And re: diamonds - the setting you linked has six smaller diamonds - how will your girlfriend feel about that?)

Also:
http://cecileraleydesigns.blogspot.com/2012/08/are-gemstones-ethically-sourced.html?m=1