Setter damaged diamond

[mdx]

Date: 10/21/2006 12:09:57 PM
Author: Cehrabehra
Johan - how much weight was in the chip? did it bring it under 1 carat from the chip alone or ???

Never thought of that one. Will put it on the scale Monday morning

Johan

 

[He Scores]

Judging from the picture, I'd say the chip was negligible in weight. I've seen very few stones broken that had measurable weight loss. You'd be amazed what can be done with a point of weight!

The disruption in the girdle will determine how much weight is lost in the recutting. If that stone goes to a round, the weight loss would be greater than if it were re-cut to it's same shape (IMHO) without knowing the measurements. However, if the stone were to go back to H&A status, weight loss could be more dramatic than a simple repair.


As far as who's responsible like Dave said, it's unreasonable to think that a setter to earn say $15 dollars for his labor to set the stone would be liable for breakage. If there are situations that result in the setter being liable, then I'm sure you will see either a two tier system of charging for setting (one I'm responsible, two I'm not). I'm sure everyone in the trade will take the lower one.

Usually the setter loses a customer and his reputation, should this continue to happen, will suffer.

Just some random thoughts.

Bill Bray
diamond cutter

 

[mdx]

As promised the next 3 posts shows the damage from different perspectives

Bill was correct weight loss from the chip is a bit under 0.1crt

Original weight 1.088ct now 1.082ct.

Bill you will notice that to clean up we will loose some diameter. Closer inspection now indicates keeping the square shape.

Johan

 

[mdx]

Picture2

 

[mdx]

Picture 3

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 10/23/2006 12:52:30 AM
Author: mdx

As promised the next 3 posts shows the damage from different perspectives

Bill was correct weight loss from the chip is a bit under 0.1crt

Original weight 1.088ct now 1.082ct.

Bill you will notice that to clean up we will loose some diameter. Closer inspection now indicates keeping the square shape.

Johan

aw geeeez.... that''s only .006! hehehe just glue gun a little melee on the corner and be done with it!!

 

[FireGoddess]

.006 or not...that chip would still bother me!!!

At least the setter admitted that he did it.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 10/23/2006 3:10:11 PM
Author: FireGoddess
.006 or not...that chip would still bother me!!!

At least the setter admitted that he did it.

I was just kidding - cause it''s the size of those little tiny micro melee diamonds lol.... it would bother me to pay full price for this - but I''d wear a chipped diamond like that if someone just *gave* it to me! hehe stick it in a bezel and fork it over!

 

[He Scores]

Johan,
Judging from all of the pictures, it appears that a stone like this could be repaired easily with a point or two weight loss. You would need to facet the other corners to match the repaired one, softening the cushion shape just a bit (but who''d notice since it the corners go under a prong).
You would end up with the exact facet arrangement that you have but since the top has to be slightly altered, it may affect the H&A patterning over what it was, but certainly wouldn''t eliminate it.



Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 10/23/2006 4:46:57 PM
Author: He Scores

Johan,
Judging from all of the pictures, it appears that a stone like this could be repaired easily with a point or two weight loss. You would need to facet the other corners to match the repaired one, softening the cushion shape just a bit (but who''d notice since it the corners go under a prong).
You would end up with the exact facet arrangement that you have but since the top has to be slightly altered, it may affect the H&A patterning over what it was, but certainly wouldn''t eliminate it.



Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter

What about this one Bill - could you save it?
It was a 1.06ct GIA G VS2.
I like to polish the points off princess - and my repair cutter was holding by diagonal points and one did not like it.
Interestingly - the VS2 is on one of the points - and it was not the point that broke - as I have always said - inclusions are not usuallly or often related to diamond breakage. I had not seen the stone before breakage on a polariscope - but there is no stress in it now - as you expect because it has al been released. Anyway - the stone would likely have broken during setting had it not gone on the wheel.

Note the reflecting cleavages inside the stone - upper left (with the jagged face to the top left running parallel with the upper center reflective surface) and mid left being the other cleavage. It also runs across the back and is the other part of the missing diamond.

I am donating this stone to the Gemmological Association of Australia as a teaching master.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 10/24/2006 12:48:27 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 10/23/2006 4:46:57 PM
Author: He Scores

Johan,
Judging from all of the pictures, it appears that a stone like this could be repaired easily with a point or two weight loss. You would need to facet the other corners to match the repaired one, softening the cushion shape just a bit (but who''d notice since it the corners go under a prong).
You would end up with the exact facet arrangement that you have but since the top has to be slightly altered, it may affect the H&A patterning over what it was, but certainly wouldn''t eliminate it.



Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter

What about this one Bill - could you save it?
It was a 1.06ct GIA G VS2.
I like to polish the points off princess - and my repair cutter was holding by diagonal points and one did not like it.

Interestingly - the VS2 is on one of the points - and it was not the point that broke - as I have always said - inclusions are not usuallly or often related to diamond breakage. I had not seen the stone before breakage on a polariscope - but there is no stress in it now - as you expect because it has al been released. Anyway - the stone would likely have broken during setting had it not gone on the wheel.

Note the reflecting cleavages inside the stone - upper left (with the jagged face to the top left running parallel with the upper center reflective surface) and mid left being the other cleavage. It also runs across the back and is the other part of the missing diamond.

I am donating this stone to the Gemmological Association of Australia as a teaching master.

again, just a bit of melee and a gluegun... it''s all good - okay, this one is ouchie!!!

so seriously - what is a polariscope? that thing looks like it was sping loaded!!

 

[pyramid]

This topic is very interesting.

 

[mdx]

Date: 10/23/2006 4:46:57 PM
Author: He Scores

Johan,
Judging from all of the pictures, it appears that a stone like this could be repaired easily with a point or two weight loss. You would need to facet the other corners to match the repaired one, softening the cushion shape just a bit (but who''d notice since it the corners go under a prong).
You would end up with the exact facet arrangement that you have but since the top has to be slightly altered, it may affect the H&A patterning over what it was, but certainly wouldn''t eliminate it.



Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter

Thanks Bill

That sounds like an interesting option with a possibilty of keeping the stone over 1crt.

Wonder what GIA will call it " Clipped Corner Cushion Brilliant"

Johan

 

[mdx]

Bill
Here is an image of the complete stone, You will notice that although not deep the damaged extends into the star.
We are thinking of creating a corner as you suggested parallel to the facet straight edge. this will increase the girdle thickness then dig out the facet to clean up.
Thereafter re doing the stars till cleanup.
Looks like the stone will improve from SI1 to VS2, a small bonus
Johan

 

[reader]

How about an octagon cut?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

sorry 4 hijacking the thread Johan.

The stone is a light fancy yellow?
If so - why not look at splitting some of the dark pavilion mains - that would also improve the color by cutting down the contrast. And if you dig deeper on the corner you are cutting to break up the symmetry the color will also improve. Excellent symmetry is a no no for colored diamonds.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 10/25/2006 4:01:41 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
sorry 4 hijacking the thread Johan.

The stone is a light fancy yellow?
If so - why not look at splitting some of the dark pavilion mains - that would also improve the color by cutting down the contrast. And if you dig deeper on the corner you are cutting to break up the symmetry the color will also improve. Excellent symmetry is a no no for colored diamonds.

well that certainly is interesting - I can imagine why, but I can also imagine why it would be just as lovely to have a regularly performing diamond in a fancy color.

 

[oldminer]

If the diamond did perform in a more "regular" manner, then the intensity of the fancy color would appear to be reduced. You pay a premium for intensity of color, so you don''t want to lessen it.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 10/25/2006 10:34:11 AM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 10/25/2006 4:01:41 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
sorry 4 hijacking the thread Johan.

The stone is a light fancy yellow?
If so - why not look at splitting some of the dark pavilion mains - that would also improve the color by cutting down the contrast. And if you dig deeper on the corner you are cutting to break up the symmetry the color will also improve. Excellent symmetry is a no no for colored diamonds.

well that certainly is interesting - I can imagine why, but I can also imagine why it would be just as lovely to have a regularly performing diamond in a fancy color.

Too much darkness from big mains makes for less color intensity and too much brightness from strong single ray path in and out rays - like the arrows in H&A''s when they light up - that destroys the color perception - that is why we say that really bright J-M colored diamonds can face up like H-J when cut really well.
If you look at images of fancy colored radiants - note they rarely have much darkness apparent - and as we know - radiants are not the most radiant little stars in the galaxy

 

[mdx]

Sorry guys

the stone is actually white,

I played around with the camera’s white balance and lighting to make the stone appear darker in order to clearly show the outline of the damage

But no harm done we have all learned something extra from Gary and Dave

Johan

 

[:)]

Date: 10/25/2006 12:07:30 PM
Author: oldminer
If the diamond did perform in a more ''regular'' manner, then the intensity of the fancy color would appear to be reduced. You pay a premium for intensity of color, so you don''t want to lessen it.

Wow! Learning new things every day!

I am curious, with the increase in clarity will that make up for the cost lost in carat weight? Or do you have to wait until you are done and can weigh it again to determine that?

And Cehra, when I get my stone I am keeping you and your glue gun away from it!

 

[mdx]

Date: 10/25/2006 9:28:42 PM
Author:

Date: 10/25/2006 12:07:30 PM
Author: oldminer
If the diamond did perform in a more ''regular'' manner, then the intensity of the fancy color would appear to be reduced. You pay a premium for intensity of color, so you don''t want to lessen it.

Wow! Learning new things every day!

I am curious, with the increase in clarity will that make up for the cost lost in carat weight? Or do you have to wait until you are done and can weigh it again to determine that?

And Cehra, when I get my stone I am keeping you and your glue gun away from it!

That is a very good question, lets have a look if we use Rap prices as a standard, this is not a true selling price but a method of comparing the price differential

These Square Ideal cuts are usually priced the same as a Round Brilliant

So original weight 1.08ct. F SI 1 notional price $6804.00
If we can keep the diamond at 1.00crt and get F VS2 the notional price would be $7700.00

Wow we are better off.

Well not really, with the clipped corners, the desirability comes down and the stone will no longer be able to be sold at round brilliant H&A prices.

It now will have to be priced as a fancy cut so we use the Pear list and we get 1.00crt F VS2 notional price $6500.00 and pretty difficult to sell as it’s a one off,

Maybe we can call it RARE and charge a premium.

I also believe we may pass on the Cehre gluegun as that may cause some credibility problems

Johan

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 10/25/2006 12:07:30 PM
Author: oldminer
If the diamond did perform in a more ''regular'' manner, then the intensity of the fancy color would appear to be reduced. You pay a premium for intensity of color, so you don''t want to lessen it.

but in doing so ( making the most of the color) don''t you give up in diamond performance? ie fire etc? I think we already established that yellow diamonds have fire, so wouldn''t it be fantastic to have fire leaping from the confines of a very yellow stone rather than the tiny bits that might come off in a stone cut for internal color return?

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 10/25/2006 10:10:57 PM
Author: mdx

Maybe we can call it RARE and charge a premium.

I also believe we may pass on the Cehre gluegun as that may cause some credibility problems

Johan

Yeah yeah, it was all a joke anyway (I don''t even own a gluegun lol) But seriously - a rare fancy might be totally awesome! I love unique stones, and if the *core* of the stone is a H&A (even if you cannot call it that) I don''t see how you''re going to get an ugly stone. I really hope you post pics of it, I bet it''s going to be very cool!

 

[He Scores]

RE: How bout this one .....

Gary,
Wow...so much for chamfering the corners huh? Run the girdle there 45 degrees to the two sides untill you have the outline of a stone that looks like the profile of an ideal cut and sell them as "superman" cuts (depicting Supermans shield on his chest).

Oh I forgot. Aussie''s don''t have superman, they have Crocadile Dundee. Sorry.



...Bill

 

[He Scores]

Actually Johan...if you want fancy intense yellow out of it, cut it as a radiant... It will look like an entirely different color than what the photo shows. The material wasn't handled the way it should have been to maximize the body color that's probably why you didn't get an intense fancy yellow..

There's a reason why so many of the intense fancy yellows are cut as radiants.


Bill Bray
Diamond Cutter

 

[:)]

style="WIDTH: 91.89%; HEIGHT: 558px">Date: 10/25/2006 10:10:57 PM
Author: mdx



That is a very good question, lets have a look if we use Rap prices as a standard, this is not a true selling price but a method of comparing the price differential

These Square Ideal cuts are usually priced the same as a Round Brilliant

So original weight 1.08ct. F SI 1 notional price $6804.00
If we can keep the diamond at 1.00crt and get F VS2 the notional price would be $7700.00

Wow we are better off.

Well not really, with the clipped corners, the desirability comes down and the stone will no longer be able to be sold at round brilliant H&A prices.

It now will have to be priced as a fancy cut so we use the Pear list and we get 1.00crt F VS2 notional price $6500.00 and pretty difficult to sell as it’s a one off,

Maybe we can call it RARE and charge a premium.

Interesting about the pricing!

With regard to the portion I highlighted above, I have a yellow highlighter if you want to actually make it look yellow...!

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 10/26/2006 3:46:25 PM
Author:

Interesting about the pricing!

With regard to the portion I highlighted above, I have a yellow highlighter if you want to actually make it look yellow...!

between the two of us, we''ll have it fixed up right purdy in no time flat!!

 

[mdx]

Hi Guys
The stone is back from the cutters; They put on 4 corners and dug out the remaining damage.

Any Idea what to call it, Still displays H&A

Johan

 

[Cehrabehra]

cut cornered cushion? lol! I bet it's gorgeous - how has light performance been effected? And visibily - how is scint?

ETA: at closer look, that sym looks really wonky - the star facets don't look even and the ugf look... the upper right one is way different... or is it the angle?? I'm sure it'll just end up being a cushion of some sort - everything that is undefinable and relatively squarish ends up being a cushion lol