Should little kids be banned from some restaurants?

[diamondseeker2006]

I couldn't agree more with the sentiments previously expressed! We only took our kids to family friendly restaurants. But our rule was, you stay in your seat until it is time to leave. It annoys me extremely for people to let their kids run around once they have been seated at a table!

Last Friday night we went out to eat at a sushi restaurant for my husband's birthday, and there was a couple in the booth next to us with a toddler who would occasionally let out this incredibly high pitched scream that made you cover your ears! We were seriously getting annoyed. I wanted to hear a stern NO! or something coming from that booth, but I didn't.

My conclusion is that there are a lot of people who just don't care about anyone else!

And Kenny, you are right about something else. The educational system has gone through a period of years where they said it hurt kids' self esteem and creativity to mark their papers with errors! They even stopped teaching spelling lessons for years. Many of today's young teachers are pretty clueless about how to teach phonetic spelling lessons because they were not taught themselves (you wouldn't believe the misspelled words I have seen on the board in classrooms!). As a result, colleges are saying that a large number of kids really aren't well prepared to do college level papers. I am not surprised a bit.

 

[Jennifer W]

Yes or no doesn't really explain my thoughts on it, but I voted no. I don't argue with a business owner's right to do it, that is of course their choice, but I wouldn't give them my business because the mindset doesn't appeal to me. People who don't want to be around kids at any particular time have a perfect right not to be, too, which is why I struggled with yes/ no.

However, from my own perspective if I take my daughter to a restaurant, there are ground rules. First and most important, the end of the meal will not be later than her usual bedtime, so she won't be tired and misbehaving. By definition, that means we won't be eating late (she goes to bed at 7pm) so we're out of restaurants before they get candlelit and romantic anyway.

Secondly, she will sit at the table from start to finish and eat her choice from the menu. We don't do kid's 'food' because even in nice places it's often cruddy looking, so she'll be eating something good, and probably enjoying it. She will use cutlery and she will use table manners. She will do this because she loves eating out, enjoys trying new food and loves the whole restaurant experience. At the first sign of misbehaviour, we'll take her out (although that's never actually happened in a restaurant, it's just an experience she enjoys). We won't be lingering for hours, we'll leave before she's bored and whiny.

At that point, I think that if she's annoying another patron, it's a hypothetical objection based on her age, not her behaviour. That isn't my problem. She's a paying customer, just like anyone else there.

 

[Jennifer W]

By all means a restaurant should be able to exclude young kids if that's their "niche"

Funny story- My wife, my (at the time) 1 1/2yr old and I were out with a couple who has not kids- they picked the restaurant.
If there was ever a place that should ban kids, this was it.
Incredible atmosphere- soft lighting.
As I was standing by the door, holding my little guy, thinking, man this is NOT a place for kids, I accidentally leaned on a light switch and turned on the main overhead lights. Went from soft smooth lighting to BRIGHT
You never heard such a loud room go completely silent in an instant- and of course it seemed every eye in the place was on me and my kid.
We ended up ordering a $500 meal for four, to go........

Hahahaha! Awesome! I think this proves AmeliaG's point - you can't put an age limit on bad behaviour in nice restaurants...

 

[mayerling]

At that point, I think that if she's annoying another patron, it's a hypothetical objection based on her age, not her behaviour. That isn't my problem. She's a paying customer, just like anyone else there.

Well said! I was one of the first people to vote no, and you've summarised my reasoning perfectly.

 

[kenny]

Yes but would you like it if we were at a nice restaurant and I placed my loaded gun down on the table pointing at you?
After all, I'm not shooting you; Not yet, anyway.
So it shouldn't bother you.
Right?

A kid who is, at the moment, well behaved it like a loaded gun.
I don't care to fine-dine near either, thank you very much.

I admit this is an absurdly-extreme analogy but it does make a point.
A loaded gun or a kid could go off at any moment.
How pleasant and relaxing is THAT!?!

 

[Jennifer W]

Well, where I live it is not lawful to carry or indeed own a gun, loaded or not. It remains lawful to have a child with you in public restaurants. My child doesn't have the potential to be used as a weapon to kill or maim others, unless she was born with a super power that I am yet to discover. I'll stick with my first response and if you come to Scotland (or much of mainland Europe) you can pack a picnic.

 

[partgypsy]

I think parents should use their common sense. When we were at Disney we were planning on going to a restaurant that although it did not say "child free" I would have obviously left the kids at home and would assume other adults would have done the same (it was booked). There are a few restaurants in our town, that the few times we do get to go there as dates, don't recall seeing kids there. In general, I think most people "understand" the unspoken rules. But if a table happened to have a well mannered child with them, it wouldn't have bothered me. I wonder how people would answer in Europe. There it doesn't seem like such a stigma to bring a child to a good restaurant. You bring your whole family to the restaurant!

A few years ago driving back from a vacation, we did decide to eat at a nice seafood restaurant on the way. We had our first child with us who was 3 years old at the time. We were on the road and obviously couldn't get a sitter. I felt a little trepidatious wondering if people were going to give us dirty looks, but it was quite the opposite where the waitress and other customers smiled at her and even came up to interact. But then again she is a very well mannered and didn't have to worry about her behaving (for one, she loves seafood!).

Restaurants have the right to serve or refuse to serve anyone they want to (as long as it's not a protected class). If a fancy restaurant did refuse children I wouldn't boycott it, but then I am thankful for those good restaurants who do not have that rule for the rare cases one cannot eat out without the child and yet still want to experience the restaurant.

 

[Lanie]

I couldn't agree more with the sentiments previously expressed! We only took our kids to family friendly restaurants. But our rule was, you stay in your seat until it is time to leave. It annoys me extremely for people to let their kids run around once they have been seated at a table!

Last Friday night we went out to eat at a sushi restaurant for my husband's birthday, and there was a couple in the booth next to us with a toddler who would occasionally let out this incredibly high pitched scream that made you cover your ears! We were seriously getting annoyed. I wanted to hear a stern NO! or something coming from that booth, but I didn't.

My conclusion is that there are a lot of people who just don't care about anyone else!

And Kenny, you are right about something else. The educational system has gone through a period of years where they said it hurt kids' self esteem and creativity to mark their papers with errors! They even stopped teaching spelling lessons for years. Many of today's young teachers are pretty clueless about how to teach phonetic spelling lessons because they were not taught themselves (you wouldn't believe the misspelled words I have seen on the board in classrooms!). As a result, colleges are saying that a large number of kids really aren't well prepared to do college level papers. I am not surprised a bit.

I don't want to jump on teachers (I'm one) but there was a wave of curriculum about a decade and a half ago, which taught holistic spelling. (Wait, is it wholistic or holistic?!? ) That's what we called it in my area. You taught kids to spell how they thought a word sounded, rather than teach them phonics. It was supposed to help with literacy rates. Not saying I agree with it, but it was the "thing" in education. So yes, a lot of those holistic spellers are out there. Not to mention that spell check has ruined on the spot essay writing.

 

[Jennifer W]

I think parents should use their common sense. When we were at Disney we were planning on going to a restaurant that although it did not say "child free" I would have obviously left the kids at home and would assume other adults would have done the same (it was booked). There are a few restaurants in our town, that the few times we do get to go there as dates, don't recall seeing kids there. In general, I think most people "understand" the unspoken rules. But if a table happened to have a well mannered child with them, it wouldn't have bothered me. I wonder how people would answer in Europe. There it doesn't seem like such a stigma to bring a child to a good restaurant. You bring your whole family to the restaurant!

A few years ago driving back from a vacation, we did decide to eat at a nice seafood restaurant on the way. We had our first child with us who was 3 years old at the time. We were on the road and obviously couldn't get a sitter. I felt a little trepidatious wondering if people were going to give us dirty looks, but it was quite the opposite where the waitress and other customers smiled at her and even came up to interact. But then again she is a very well mannered and didn't have to worry about her behaving (for one, she loves seafood!).

Restaurants have the right to serve or refuse to serve anyone they want to (as long as it's not a protected class). If a fancy restaurant did refuse children I wouldn't boycott it, but then I am thankful for those good restaurants who do not have that rule for the rare cases one cannot eat out without the child and yet still want to experience the restaurant.

Exactly! I do find the concept behind the question a little strange. It's cultural, and of course when you visit somewhere you respect the local culture, so it's good to know, but I am a little baffled by it because it's so alien to me. I guess people really do vary. Some of them are even quite young...

 

[MonkeyPie]

I don't think age has much to do with it - everybody needs a night out once in awhile.

 

[AmeliaG]

Yes but would you like it if we were at a nice restaurant and I placed my loaded gun down on the table pointing at you?
After all, I'm not shooting you; Not yet, anyway.
So it shouldn't bother you.
RIght?

A kid who is, at the moment, well behaved it like a loaded gun.
I don't care to fine dine near either.

I admit this is an absurdly-extreme analogy but it makes a point.
A loaded gun or a kid could go off at any moment.
How pleasant and relaxing is THAT!?!

Oh kenny, I was totally on your side until this.

I've been told I am the most intolerant person about kids acting up in public but even I can concede some kids can behave in public because their parents won't put them in situations where they will likely misbehave.

A group of us celebrated a birthday dinner at Balthazar's, a very trendy restaurant in NY. There was a family sitting next to us celebrating a birthday too - a couple of kids were under 6. The whole family was delightful - low-spoken, polite, kids stayed in their chairs-the older kids kept the toddlers entertained. They booked an early reservation and left in less than an hour. Yeah, we were concerned at first but really there was no problem.

If the kids aren't acting up, I truly have no problem with them; when they get loud and start running around restaurants, that's when I get annoyed.

 

[slg47]

just curious...is an adult with a cell phone also like a loaded gun?

 

[innerkitten]

I don't think so. Okay my DD is an only child, but she's always been well behaved when we go out to eat. From the start I really enforced that at restaurants we have to stay in our seats etc. Never had a problem.

 

[kenny]

just curious...is an adult with a cell phone also like a loaded gun?

AAAAAAAAABSOLUTELY!

They need soundproof booths. (bulletproof too)

 

[kenny]

Yes but would you like it if we were at a nice restaurant and I placed my loaded gun down on the table pointing at you?
After all, I'm not shooting you; Not yet, anyway.
So it shouldn't bother you.
RIght?

A kid who is, at the moment, well behaved it like a loaded gun.
I don't care to fine dine near either.

I admit this is an absurdly-extreme analogy but it makes a point.
A loaded gun or a kid could go off at any moment.
How pleasant and relaxing is THAT!?!

Oh kenny, I was totally on your side until this.

I've been told I am the most intolerant person about kids acting up in public but even I can concede some kids can behave in public because their parents won't put them in situations where they will likely misbehave.

A group of us celebrated a birthday dinner at Balthazar's, a very trendy restaurant in NY. There was a family sitting next to us celebrating a birthday too - a couple of kids were under 6. The whole family was delightful - low-spoken, polite, kids stayed in their chairs-the older kids kept the toddlers entertained. They booked an early reservation and left in less than an hour. Yeah, we were concerned at first but really there was no problem.

If the kids aren't acting up, I truly have no problem with them; when they get loud and start running around restaurants, that's when I get annoyed.

Guns usually don't go off but, like kids, they could.

And there are no sides, AFAIC - actually there are 6,948,554,154 sides, and counting.

 

[innerkitten]

Good point. My DD has four cousins ( same parents ). They are between 10 and 15. And when they go out to eat together they are way louder than my DD who is 5.

 

[Jennifer W]

Pretty much every other diner in a public restaurant has the potential to 'go off' in someone's book, one way or another. The cellphone example is a good one.

Some people are offended by certain words or types of language - you might sit next to someone who uses a word that offends you. Some people are offended by public displays of affection - you might sit next to a couple who kiss or hold hands. Some people are offended by those who drink what they deem to be too much alcohol - you might sit next to a group who order a lot of drinks. The list goes on.....

I think at some point you may have to consider whether eating in a public place is really for you.

Incidentally, it take a lot to offend me. An awful lot. However, coming from a culture where firearms are illegal and largely reviled, I am offended by the likening of a well mannered child to a loaded gun. Pretty much the most offensive thing I've read on PS, to tell the truth. I wasn't going to bring it up because I recognise that my outlook is probably much to do with where I live, but I found that to be very, very unpleasant.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Jen, I need to introduce you to my kids

 

[Jennifer W]

Ha! I am pretty sure they're ok (I've met their mother...)

 

[Aoife]

Pretty much every other diner in a public restaurant has the potential to 'go off' in someone's book, one way or another. The cellphone example is a good one.

Some people are offended by certain words or types of language - you might sit next to someone who uses a word that offends you. Some people are offended by public displays of affection - you might sit next to a couple who kiss or hold hands. Some people are offended by those who drink what they deem to be too much alcohol - you might sit next to a group who order a lot of drinks. The list goes on.....

I think at some point you may have to consider whether eating in a public place is really for you.

Incidentally, it take a lot to offend me. An awful lot. However, coming from a culture where firearms are illegal and largely reviled, I am offended by the likening of a well mannered child to a loaded gun. Pretty much the most offensive thing I've read on PS, to tell the truth. I wasn't going to bring it up because I recognise that my outlook is probably much to do with where I live, but I found that to be very, very unpleasant.

This.

I cast the first "No" vote, not because I'm particularly tolerant of children in general, but because there are plenty of responsible and considerate parents with well-behaved children, and I don't like blanket rules. And likening a child to a loaded hand-gun? Really?

ETA: There was a discussion similar to this on one of the travel fora I visit, and the consensus there was that children should be segregated on airplanes in the back of the cabin where they wouldn't annoy other passengers on long flights. How many here think that would be a great idea? After the 5th hour of a three-year-old kicking the back of my seat on a flight to Hawaii, it seemed reasonable to me. Not really, but I suspect no one who actually has children would really like to be forced to sit in row 65 just because they had procreated.

 

[AmeliaG]

Yes but would you like it if we were at a nice restaurant and I placed my loaded gun down on the table pointing at you?
After all, I'm not shooting you; Not yet, anyway.
So it shouldn't bother you.
RIght?

A kid who is, at the moment, well behaved it like a loaded gun.
I don't care to fine dine near either.

I admit this is an absurdly-extreme analogy but it makes a point.
A loaded gun or a kid could go off at any moment.
How pleasant and relaxing is THAT!?!

Oh kenny, I was totally on your side until this.

I've been told I am the most intolerant person about kids acting up in public but even I can concede some kids can behave in public because their parents won't put them in situations where they will likely misbehave.

A group of us celebrated a birthday dinner at Balthazar's, a very trendy restaurant in NY. There was a family sitting next to us celebrating a birthday too - a couple of kids were under 6. The whole family was delightful - low-spoken, polite, kids stayed in their chairs-the older kids kept the toddlers entertained. They booked an early reservation and left in less than an hour. Yeah, we were concerned at first but really there was no problem.

If the kids aren't acting up, I truly have no problem with them; when they get loud and start running around restaurants, that's when I get annoyed.

Guns usually don't go off but, like kids, they could.

And there are no sides, AFAIC - actually there are 6,948,554,154 sides, and counting.

Hey Kenny, I know - you were just sounding a little paranoid there. BTW, don't get me started on celphones in a restaurant.

 

[maplefemme]

If I go to a "family" restaurant I expect kids, it doesn't bother me in the slightest, it's a casual public place.
All of my friend's kids are very well behaved (except one, whom I won't dine with) when dining out. But if all kids had responsible parents this wouldn't be a subject we'd be discussing, it's the one's who wreck havoc we have issues with. It's kids acting up in public with NO correction from their parents that are infuriating.
When I see this soft touch negotiating style of parenting where the kids defy their parents, yell at them, hit them, and show no respect, it blows my mind. Back in the day my Father would have tanned my a** for such behavior.
Bottom line, my behavior had consequences and I was accountable, something sorely lacking these days in some of our youth, and who's to blame...?

As for restaurants and distractingly loud diners, it's not age exclusive. We have a favourite Moroccan restaurant we go to, the ambiance is heavenly, peaceful and private, we love going for special occasions or when we just want to unwind. We never see children there, or even older teenagers.
However, our last visit was wrecked by the loudest mouthed woman I have ever heard. The entire restaurant was privy to her psychoanalysis of her fellow diner's relationships and all other matter of subjects no one else wanted to hear, all delivered at ear piercing decibels.
She's lucky it's a Moroccan restaurant, with only fingers to eat with I was devoid of something steel and sharp

Restaurants know their demographics, if they feel they want to cater to an adult only clientele then why not. There are SO many other restaurants available where families are welcome with kids of all ages.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I couldn't agree more with the sentiments previously expressed! We only took our kids to family friendly restaurants. But our rule was, you stay in your seat until it is time to leave. It annoys me extremely for people to let their kids run around once they have been seated at a table!

Last Friday night we went out to eat at a sushi restaurant for my husband's birthday, and there was a couple in the booth next to us with a toddler who would occasionally let out this incredibly high pitched scream that made you cover your ears! We were seriously getting annoyed. I wanted to hear a stern NO! or something coming from that booth, but I didn't.

My conclusion is that there are a lot of people who just don't care about anyone else!

And Kenny, you are right about something else. The educational system has gone through a period of years where they said it hurt kids' self esteem and creativity to mark their papers with errors! They even stopped teaching spelling lessons for years. Many of today's young teachers are pretty clueless about how to teach phonetic spelling lessons because they were not taught themselves (you wouldn't believe the misspelled words I have seen on the board in classrooms!). As a result, colleges are saying that a large number of kids really aren't well prepared to do college level papers. I am not surprised a bit.

I don't want to jump on teachers (I'm one) but there was a wave of curriculum about a decade and a half ago, which taught holistic spelling. (Wait, is it wholistic or holistic?!? ) That's what we called it in my area. You taught kids to spell how they thought a word sounded, rather than teach them phonics. It was supposed to help with literacy rates. Not saying I agree with it, but it was the "thing" in education. So yes, a lot of those holistic spellers are out there. Not to mention that spell check has ruined on the spot essay writing.

I'm one, too, and sadly saw it all first hand! You are correct, it was called Whole Language (aka..how to make literacy scores plummet in a well developed country which should have scores among the top).

 

[zoebartlett]

Children shouldnt be banned from resturants. I think parents should use common sense when taking their kids out to eat. I also think those who want a quiet evening out should pick a place that children are less likely to be brought.

I agree. I'm surprised that so many people agree with banning kids from restaurants.

 

[ksinger]

Children shouldnt be banned from resturants. I think parents should use common sense when taking their kids out to eat. I also think those who want a quiet evening out should pick a place that children are less likely to be brought.

I agree. I'm surprised that so many people agree with banning kids from restaurants.

I'm more surprised that banning small kids from some restaurants has somehow become banning all kids from all restaurants.

ETA - and I just have to say, what IS it these days that people take it as axiomatic that children MUST be loud, boisterous, and disruptive and other people just need to sit down, shut up and suck it up? Did I miss something at some point in the last 40 years?

I would have been ON the plate if I'd done any of that at a restaurant.

 

[packrat]

I've had more problems with rude/loud/obnoxious/drunk adults in restaurants than problems w/wayward kids. We've had our share of kids that the parents could rent out as an effective means of birth control too, but I'm more annoyed by the group of guys drinking and talking about women loudly and rudely and offensively than the kids. A lot of places I've been to will have a manager come tell the parents the kids either will settle down or they can leave. My husband is big and looks really mean and this is also an effective tool for the kids and the parents.

 

[charbie]

Wait, don't a lot of bars do this already? I seem to remember being in college and not able to get into certain establishments until I was 21 yrs old...

 

[steph72276]

I'm a parent of two small children and I agree with the idea. If I'm spending tons of money on a nice meal, I want to be able to enjoy it. Therefore, I am leaving my children with a babysitter and expect others to do the same. My kids are very well behaved out at places, but we only take them to child appropriate places AND if the younger one starts crying and we can't get him immediately calmed down, one will take him out while the other gets the food boxed up. It's just the polite thing to do, but sadly some parents either tune out their children or just don't care about ruining another person's outing. Sad that places would have to resort to banning, but obviously there is a need for it when people don't use common sense.

 

[slg47]

Wait, don't a lot of bars do this already? I seem to remember being in college and not able to get into certain establishments until I was 21 yrs old...

interestingly I saw an article about parents bringing their kids to happy hour...

 

[kenny]

Wait, don't a lot of bars do this already? I seem to remember being in college and not able to get into certain establishments until I was 21 yrs old...

interestingly I saw an article about parents bringing their kids to happy hour...

They just wanted a happy meal.