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Smaller AVR vs MRB, and MRB in Vintage Setting Questions

EvangelineG

EvangelineG

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
560
Hi all! I have been lurking obsessively on PS for a couple of months now, and enjoying every minute. My H and I are in the market for what we are calling a “re-engagement ring”, and he had asked me to look around and let him know what my tastes are, since I had no idea…I’ve never been much into jewellery, but I think several weeks of PS lurking may have suddenly and permanently cured me of that! 8)

In online photos and vids, I was very quickly attracted to the idea and looks of an OEC, and had pretty much made up my mind that was what I wanted, until I did some shopping IRL. I saw a lot of overpriced, poorly to average cut junk, and then some Hearts on Fire diamonds…still WAY overpriced, but OMG they were blinding, sparkly, light-performing, show-stopping little SOBs! I had pretty quickly dismissed modern RBs as boring, since that has been my experience of them, but had to rethink that. They are astonishingly beautiful, when they are well cut! Just as my PS lurking had taught me, cut is king!

Sadly the only vintage diamond I could find to see IRL was a wonkily cut “K” that the vendor said was really more of an OMC than an OEC. It was an oddball, charming little guy, and I didn’t mind the warmth at all (I am thinking K was generous), but while I would happily wear something like that in a pendant if the price was right, it was definitely not even close to being right for my “re-engagement” ring.

I love AVRs in photos and videos, and figure they might be my sweet spot between the lovely faceting on an OEC and modern light performance, but being in Canada, will have no opportunity to judge this with my own eyes.

Also being in Canada, watching our dollar get weaker and weaker against USD has tightened our budget a bit. (Along with the fact that I discovered that I really, REALLY like eternity bands. Bands plural...we don't want the solitaire to be lonely, do we? :naughty:) After seeing the performance of an ideal cut MRB with my own eyes, I realize I am happy to go down in size for a better cut. I had originally thought around 1.25cw, and am now thinking anything over 6mm, if it is ideal cut. The HoF diamond I saw was 0.88cw, and packed nearly as much visual punch as the 1.2cw diamonds I had been trying on. The difference was truly amazing!

So after all that rambling here are my actual questions…

1. In a diamond as small as 6mm, how apparent would the different facet structure of an AVR vs a MRB actually be, at arm’s length under everyday lighting conditions?

2. I really like vintage styled settings, and would likely get something custom made with milgrain, hand engraving, possibly with a bezel or 8 prong. (I drool over Dreamer’s octagonal setting!!) Would a vintage style setting look funny with a MRB?

Thank you!
 
I love AVRs too but couldn't justify the 2-3k difference between an avr and the same face up size of mrb. So I'm going with a mrb in an antique setting,..kind of a modern vintage look. There may be those who will only pair an antique diamond with an antique setting...but I think it will look great. Transitionals have a closer look to mrbs and look great in vintage setting.

To me it's like watching Downton Abbey. The clothes and jewelry isn't 100% historically accurate but they've been modernized. A different look but no less appealing.

http://antiqueengagementrings.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=4430
 
I have a 0.59ct 5.3mm AVR, and a 0.74ct 5.8mm rb. I can see the pattern in the AVR, but it isn't as obvious as it is in pics. I'm sure the larger the stone the easier it is to see the pattern. That said, I think my rb has more consistent light return in that it has more facets that are "on" at one time, and the AVR has larger facets so there is more "off" at one time. More contrast in the AVR.
 
A large percentage of old cuts out there are badly cut having said that there are some very very nice ones as well, it's just a matter of looking. What is your budget we can make suggestions of AVRs and genuine old cuts and for that matter RBs as well, and what colour and clarity do you want?

This might be another place to look;

http://www.loveaffairdiamonds.com/loose-diamonds/

And Victor is also cutting stones that look like AVRs;

http://www.victorcanera.com/diamonds
 
1. In a diamond as small as 6mm, how apparent would the different facet structure of an AVR vs a MRB actually be, at arm’s length under everyday lighting conditions?
Click to expand...

I think you'd notice the difference in character between "chunky" facets and MRB facets, but a MRB that has fatter arrows will tend toward chunky, and one with long lower girdle facets will be more splintery. So you can kind of pick a MRB that has fatter arrows and a strong contrast pattern and perhaps save a few bucks. Personally, I would rather pump most of my budget into a larger center stone, and go down in clarity to SI2 or even a good I1, and then shop around for a deal on a setting. There are lots of product lines out there that may give you the look you want without going custom. My e-ring when I was married was 5.8mm RB. When I bought myself a diamond later, I went for a 1ct. The size difference in 5.8 or 5.9 compared to 6.4-6.5mm is noticeable, and the difference between 6.5mm and 6.9 or 7mm (1.25ct) is another noticeable jump. A few years ago the price difference between 1ct and 1.2-1.25 was only about 10% more. I'd delay the setting, and go for the larger diamond. Next priority would be the setting. Then perhaps one eternity band. But you should think it over, because the more bands you stack, the more blingy the stack gets, and the less the center diamond stands out. Sometimes too much, is too much.
And you have to also consider what happens if your tastes change in a few years. Will you want the 5.8mm, or a larger diamond then? Businesses have upgrade policies, but the upgrade policy is no good if this is a dozen years later and that business is no longer in existence. Sometimes throw it all at the larger diamond, then in a year or so change the setting is a better long range plan.

2. I really like vintage styled settings, and would likely get something custom made with milgrain, hand engraving, possibly with a bezel or 8 prong. (I drool over Dreamer’s octagonal setting!!) Would a vintage style setting look funny with a MRB?
Click to expand...
No, either OEC/AVR or a MRB will look fine. Most of the settings are pictured with a MRB in them. Or the display models are stocked with a MRB cz in them. There's a thread (a sticky) of diamonds 1ct and less. Lots of vintage styles, halos, ect.
 
Okay, this may come as a surprise ;)) , but I say go with an AVR if you can go with at least a carat or close to it. I think H&A stones are beautiful, but I really love my AVR! After having one, I'd never set a mrb in an antique style setting. I think an AVR/OEC would look soooo much better! I was like you in that I valued cut, but I just didn't think I had it in me to search through a vast number of OEC's to find a great cut one. I do think some people here have some great ones, but there are far more out there that are not as great.
 
Just got for a true OEC to make your budget work. They are gorgeous and look a heck of a lot different to MRB. I have never been a huge fan of MRB but in love with OECs.
 
Redroze- that’s exactly what I was thinking. Is an AVR worth the premium over an MRB of the same face up size in under 1ct sizes? In larger sizes where you can just fall into those beautiful flowery facets, sure, gorgeous, but in smaller sizes…not so sure it’s worth it? And I like the Downton Abbey analogy. Thank you. =)

Ecf8503- Thank you! I looked at your “baby AVR” thread. What a beautiful ring! That’s exactly the type of info I needed. I guess the good news is that I probably can’t go wrong with either. You also said this in another thread:

I just bought a 0.59ct AVR (ring size 5) and had them put it in a Stuller solitaire mount that was inexpensive but pretty so I can enjoy it while I build up funds to get a bigger AVR. They have a lifetime guarantee on them, so you aren't "out" anything from my perspective (aside from the cost of a setting), as they'll give you that amount back toward an upgrade. But I have to say the faceting isn't extremely obvious at this size - it's very sparkly and has great fire and contrast, but I have to actively look for the flower pattern - it's just too small to appreciate it. But the colors that come off it - wow!
Click to expand...

(Yes, I am totally stalking you! ;) Which I found helpful as well.

Arkieb1- I would love any and all help. Thank you!

I don’t have an exact budget…it’s more of a ratio of what allows me a gift from my H that is highly symbolic, that he is proud to give, and makes me feel special and valued, vs what starts to make me think things like “this could be a trip to Europe, or a luxury safari in Kenya!!! And wouldn’t I rather have that?!” So yeah…that’s not helpful is it?

From the looking around that I have done, I think, with keeping an eye out for value, I can find something to make me happy in the $4000-6000 range for the stone? I haven’t seen anything under about $4100 that looks like it would be right (although if there is, cool!), and anything over $6000, considering I am adding about 25% for taxes and exchange onto that as well (plus setting, plus bands), puts me in that “luxury trip wanting, decreasing ring enjoyment ratio” range.

So 4-6K USD, minimum of 6mm face up, G-I colour for an RB (warmer OK in an OEC or AVR), and preferably eye clean, although I would consider “prongable” or otherwise not terribly offensive inclusions, as long as they don’t interfere with light performance, in order to maximize value. And cut seems to be my deal breaker, has to be really, really well cut.

An example that I think is an RB that fits the bill at the bottom of my range?

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3063772.htm

TC1987- Fatter arrows, eh? That is interesting. Can you show me an example of that?

Putting more $$ into the centre stone does make perfect sense, except that I am just not a big rock kind of gal. I love them on other people, but they are just not me. I went for several years without wearing any rings at all, because at the time I was heavy into mixed media art and kept forgetting and getting my original ER covered in matte medium and heavy bodied acrylic paints! I hang out with special need kids, I bake bread, I make art- a big rock is just not a good fit with my lifestyle or personality.

I like the really simple elegant look of about a .8-1.2 carat solitaire in a non-pave setting with vintage details, but really didn't care for anything bigger than 1.30 max on my hand. And I LOVE how understated a dainty eternity band looks worn alone. This one really surprised me, but when trying on rings I kept taking off the solitaires so that I could see the bands on their own. I just love how incredibly subtle that look is. I probably wouldn’t stack, but would love to have a few different ¾ eternitys to swap out. The solitaire is really more to please my H, although don’t get me wrong, I will like it too.

Diamond seeker2006- Your ring is the one that sent me running for the GOG website in the first place! Bee-utiful! :love: I swear you posting on here with that pic as your avatar is the single best online advertising for their AVRs that they could have.

I am feeling the same way about the expertise and time required to find a well cut OEC –a little overwhelming. I just wish I could see a .9-ish AVR IRL to decide if the extra $$ over an MRB would be worth it to me. I know I can have one sent and then return it, but then I have to mess with customs forms to get the tax refunded and such…
 
Awww, thank you!!! I hate it that you aren't in the US, because I did send for AVR's and AVC's to look at more than once. It was worth it for me to firm up what I really wanted. I bought two ideal cut rounds before identifying why I wasn't quite thrilled, and I found out why when I acknowledged my love for old cuts!

I will say that Jonathan has access to most antique stones from suppliers, so it isn't a bad idea to get him to call in some for you to compare in a video with AVR's. Although you will need to explain that you want really well cut OEC's because you may choose size over a smaller AVR.
 
So just messing around while I wait for my sons...

Trying to figure out how the pricing stacks up based on my criteria. I started with the .90 G SI2 AVR shown first below, just because it is one of only a couple of AVRs available in my price range right now. Hard to compare SI2’s though because not all inclusions are created equal…I’m not sure if the ones in that AVR would be inoffensive to me or not? And not quite far enough along in my decision making to start bugging GOG. So they range from the vendor stating eye clean to very noticeably included in the macros, with no eye clean designation offered. I chose all super ideal/ideal cuts because I wanted to compare apples to apples as best I could.

Price on a .90-ish G SI2 (bank wire/PS discounts where available)

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/11014/ AVR at $5678
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3019439.htm “Eye clean” SI1 expert selection at $5754
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3063764.htm ACA at $5690
http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity-new&id=1029 “Eye Clean” CBI at $5946
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/d...ls/0.891-f-si1-round-diamond-ags-104069795040 BGS F SI1 at $5259 (closest I could find from BG)

So really, the price diff between AVRs and their ideal cut MRB counterparts are not staggering? Unless I am missing something? That AVR shown does seem “messier” than the others posted, and I am not sure how those type of inclusions would affect my enjoyment IRL.

As far as OECs, It was apples to oranges. I was able to find .90 G S12’s for around $3000-4000, but they were mainly EGL or uncertified, most had no pics and the ones that did looked like hot messes as far as cut.

Found these at Jewels by Grace that look pleasing to my eye as far as facet pattern, and I compared them to the Screening Chart for Old European Cuts provided here by David Atlas, and they seem to do OK.

http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-...ional-cut-diamond-gia-j-vs1.html#.UzwYCvldXh5
http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/1-10ct-old-european-cut-diamond-gia-j-vs1.html#.UzwYG_ldXh5

I would gain in size and clarity for my budget, and go down in colour. Would I get that fantastic light return that makes my heart go pitter patter?

Maybe I need two rings- a smaller near colourless super ideal MRB to blind me with dazzling white brilliance, and ALSO an OEC or AVR, a bit larger, and in a really, really low colour like an R, and set in YG to bring it out in all its warm, buttery glory! Ack, decisions. These first world problems are very trying. :cheeky:
 
Just to update, I really couldn't decide so I just turned it over to my H. I gave him a list of PS vendors, the specs that I would be looking for in an OEC, AVR, or MRB, and my pros and cons for each. I suggested that he post on here if he gets lost along the way. I am excited to see what he chooses!

There were mysterious phone calls to New York on the weekend, so I think he is in good hands... :))
 
Oh, wow! You are very brave! But as long as they all have upgrade policies, you should be fine if you decide you like something else better in the future! Good luck and I look forward to seeing what you get!
 
Another update...a mysterious package from Fedex arrived on Friday. My H doesn't seem to have the same issues with indecisiveness that I do!

He chose for me a .995 H VS2 AVR. It is insanely beautiful! Just jaw dropping. I couldn't be more pleased with his choice. My H said that Jonathan from GOG was a pleasure to work with, and he wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to others.

The facet patterning is clearly visible to my eye at this size, and just...wow! I could stare at it for days. :))

On the weekend I was out of commission with a virus laying on the couch with an ipad, and I think I have now looked at EVERY RING SETTING KNOWN TO MANKIND SINCE THE DAWN OF TIME...and have no idea what I want to do. So now there's that... :wacko:
 
I'm so excited for you! That one was one of the diamonds I looked at from GOG; they even made a video of it for me. In the end we picked a different stone. Can't wait to see what setting you pick :)
 
Oh my gosh! I saw the video comparing that one to one or two others and I almost felt sad that it sold because I wanted it!!! :lol: You were very lucky to get a very rare size!! Your husband made a terrific choice! :love: :appl:

Settings? Oh, gosh, I still can't decide! But I think for that size stone, I'd probably go with Van Craeynest.
 
Thank you so much! It is soooo beautiful, and the fact that he chose it somehow makes me like it even more!

Girlguineapig I had watched your video, and been really drawn to the one that became mine! Funny how that works out. :)

Jonathan made this vid for my H-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk06etsLPVI&feature=youtu.be How could you not choose an AVR after watching that, I ask you!? Fie-yer! It would have been between the 1.11 SI2 and the .99 VS2 for me, but since seeing the AVR with my own eyes I am really glad my H went with the VS2. I was not very inclusion sensitive in the MRBs we had been looking at, but due to the larger facets in an AVR I think any inclusions would have bothered me a lot more here. As it is the .99 VS2 is lovely and clean!

Diamondseeker, thanks for the suggestion. I'm off to take a look at Van Craeynest...I saw a few of their settings here and there, but I don't think I've been to their website...
 
OMG, that stone is INCREDIBLE! Holy rainbows, Batman! :appl:
 
Thanks Tourmaline! :)

I checked out the Van Craeynest rings, and wow! Such incredible detail. I didn't see a setting that would be quite the thing I am looking for for the re-engagement ring, but would I ever love to own the Acanthus band in YG!! *drools* Maybe someday...

I saw a Verragio setting that has made my shortlist yesterday...

http://www.verragio.com/Verragio-Engagement-Rings/Couture-Engagement-Rings/COUTURE-0418R?slide=

I really liked the way it was very simple on the face down view, and then had lovely "surprises" in the gallery. I also want to incorporate some rose gold into my ring for sure, but am not sure if I want the whole setting in it. This was a really subtle way of doing the mixed metal thang. I am not in absolute LURVE with it, but it is lovely.
 
AVR's are my very favorite...what a wise man you married...great choice.

Here is a solitaire setting that is dainty and budget friendly, especially for platinum. GOG carries this line.

http://www.gabrielny.com/amavida/style/ER7389PT3JJ

Can't wait to see your finger shots.
 
I hope it's not considered poor forum etiquette here to keep reviving this thread? Real life in the form of sick kids & husband, house guests, and dental surgery has been getting in the way of my settings search, but I have been looking at pics online here and there, and there are two more local places I'd like to check out-hopefully this weekend.

Diamondseeker, thanks for pointing me at the Elisabeth solitaire! I love those claw prongs! I had looked at all the formerly jbeg settings, before I got my diamond, but back then I was all about a bezel setting. That changed as soon as I saw my AVR. I don't want to cover up any of it, it is so exquisite! A bezel just doesn't feel right for this diamond, even though I love the look, KWIM? So I had passed by the Elisabeth, and I really, really like it. Thanks. It is on the shortlist if I don't go the custom route.

Ariel144- Did I ever blow a LOT of time on the Gabriel NY site! I like several of their designs very much, including the one you showed, but each one would need some sort of tweak for me to love. I wonder if they do customization? The prices are certainly budget friendly, and I did a search on here and the quality seems well regarded for the price range? I wish I could see some IRL, but there are no dealers in my province. Bonus that I could get it done through GOG though, because I am just not sure about handing my precious over to any of the local jewellers we have met so far.

When I described my diamond to one of the owners of what would likely be the best regarded independent B&M store in our city she asked if it was a yehuda diamond. I didn't know what that was until I looked it up at home. :angryfire: My description had been a new diamond cut in the old european style but with ideal light performance called an August Vintage Round, and she gets clarity enhanced from that??? And I am going to hand my AVR over to a snarky no-nothing who would treat it with as much respect as a CZ, because she has never heard of it? No thank you.
 
No, it is fine to continue on with this thread, although some people start a new thread for settings to get new people involved in the thread. Many people don't bother to read through pages of old posts to get to the new ones!

Lol on the Yehuda comment! No one will have heard of AVR's, but that was a very weird guess on her part! My tendency is to agree that I would not really want anyone local to touch my diamond!

I will see some Singlestone rings this coming week. I am glad you decided against a bezel as I agree that I wouldn't want to cover up any of the stone.
 
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