Speaking of price hikes..

[jszweda]

Hi Maurice, Doug, Richard...and whoever else.

You bring up some good points about different things being given certain names and such, and I think that plays into the "price game".

For instance, mandarins and spessertites tend to have variant meanings depnding on who you talk to. I could make similar comparisons to Kashmir sapphires, and Tsavorites vs. grossular garnets, and as Maurice was bringing up, andesine vs. laboradite. Maybe that last one has a more scinetifict definition than any of the other ones, but I''ll clarify that later on in this post as to what I mean.

I think that the industry as a whole has expanded the meaning of "mandarin" garnet since that original find in Namibia. Now, there are some people who will take any garnet that is anywhere between very slightly orangey yellow and strong orangey red, and they call it a mandarin. I have seen some hessonites that look a lot like spessertites that have been dubbed mandarins. I have seen some places online that use the term "mandarin garnet" and then you read on and it''s a hessonite. I have also seen on online store who showed a picture of a stone that was a gorgeous orange. Then you see the independent report and the picture with that. The stone is a red spessartite with 75% tone.

I don''t care what definition you use, that doesn''t fit it.

I remember seeing one show in particular where the guy was selling some rings, and he showed the tag say "mandarin", but he said that''s not the case. He sold those things as red spessartites, and rightfully so.

Here is my beef about the marketing though. While what was in Namibia has been dubbed the term "mandarin" originally, I think it''s unfair to some other orange spessartites. I have seen things from Namibia that look peach instead of orange, and they are milky as all hell. Personally, I don''t care for those. Now if there is a spessartite that has a orange as the dominant color in it, it''s not the same and it''s not as desirable?

I think starting with that Nigerian find, all the jewelers said look at that stuff from Namibia, and look at the same material with a variant color range. Either way, it''s still a spessartite. There is a scientific classification for that. I think this whole true mandarin vs. spessartite thing has just added a lot of confusion and a lot of ragging room from one retailer to the next to help market whatever they have. However, regardless of what you call it, people still pay rediculous amounts of money for those things. If what one likes is truly a matter of preference, then from the standpoint of a seller, should there really be a price difference then?

The Tsavorite thing, I am starting to wonder if there is some hype on that too. Granted, a Tsavorite might have certain specific qualities about it that trademark it to Kenya. Like anything else, they come in lighter and darker shades. Now, if anyone found a grossular garnet from some other part of the world, the list prices are radically different. Is that Tsavorite so truly different from any other grossular garnet? Does the fact that Tiffany & Co. found that deposit (or a consultant for them actually) make it any better? It''s still a grossular variety of garnet. Personally I like those things, but my pocket is pretty dry.

I am wondering about the stories I am hearing about that too. Sometime last year, it was mined out or close. Then the prices started to jump, and then suddnely there was good news! There was supposedly another deposit within a few miles of there. Now, I am hearing the "its almost mined out" story. I have also heard rediculously low production of 1000 carats a year now. For 3 carats a day, do you think anyone could make a profit on that mine if this was the case? So is this another case of let''s create some story to drive up the price? I wonder if the oil companies run these mines.

Now with Kashmir sapphires, granted they are no more. If there are anymore in that neck of the woods, I don''t see anyone going there to dig for them amidst the fighting going on there. I remember seeing a price guide on Kashmir sapphires online, and the prices were disproportionately rediculous. If it''s a true Kashmir, it can go for as much as 11K a carat supposedly. Now, those things have a certain silk to them and certain characteristics that someone could definitively say, this stone came from the old Kashmir mine. Fine.

Now, if I found a stone that is that same color, no silk and clean, it''s maybe 3 grand a carat? It''s still corundum. Talk about a price hike, that''s one hell of a hike. However, you look at an emerald. One comes from Columbia, one comes from another part of the world. If they are the same quality and same color, is there a price differnce? I have yet to see it.

Now with the andesine vs. laboradite part, I don''t know a whole lot about that, but some of what I have read on this thread about that illustrates my point. Granted, there is a technical definition for andesine. There is a specific standard for that, so that resolves the name issue. Now, we start to hear stories about that. We hear one thing, and then as it''s been pointed out here, there is some mine in or around Tibet that is news to some of us. Maybe there is some misinformation on that too, who knows. Maybe someone just got their stories mixed up from one person talking to the next, and then nobody knows whats going on. People panic, and hey! Let''s drive up the price on that too.

I am not saying anyone is out to defraud anyone or anything like that on any of what I am speaking of. I just think that there are several examples of hype or things that I can only question as being hype that in turn drive up prices.

 

[nicky newark]

Hi Joe- You are right about all the marketing scams. The TV gem shows lead the way. Mined out mandarin and tanzanite seem to be in good supply at $1000ct. I always paid $200-300ct. for quality tsavorite. I cant believe what people are paying now. I have recently seen a AGTA cert for " New Kashmir" sapphire-it is still being mined on a small scale. I bought a small .50ct. stone { old mine} from this dealer. I also paid a good buck for a small red beryl .47. Now I find out the mine owners have been sitting on a pretty good supply. Another miricle find is coming. I cant win, I am a stone collector and an Oil Company worker.

 

[jszweda]

Hi Nick.

I know exactly what you mean about mined out mandarin and tanzanite on that one show in particular. Now, I am not saying they''re scamming anyone or anything like that, and I can personally attest to their quality from seeing it on other stuff.

I wonder if that one guy did with his mandarin rough like he did the tanzanite rough. That particular individual said on a number of occassions why he has no shortage on it, and you''re probably smart enough to figure out what kind of deal he got on it.

Supposedly, right before 2000, the price bottomed out on Tanzanite. So when it did, that guy scarfed up enough for mega cheap. He said on camera on more than one ocassion that he bought enough of that stuff to last him 20 years. I could belive that as there seems to be no shortage of it on his end. As for the other rough he has, who knows. So granted, the stuff is mined out, and he has a freaking mine and a half, and he''s cashing in on it. I can''t blame him, but I wouldn''t be suprised if someone in Tanzinia did the same thing and nobody knows about it.

I will say this though about that one show I think you''re refering to. When they say D-H colored diamonds SI-VS clarity, you may find one G/H stone in the bunch. Most of those stones will be D-F/VS1-VVS1. Sometimes too, they will give you a really good deal on certain things. Supposedly the rhodolites from Ceylon are mined out. They were getting rid of some decent sized stones for $20/carat. Now, weather they are mined out or not, who knows. For $40 a carat online or better (pending the vendor), that''s not a bad deal at all.

The Tsavorites...ugh. I remember a few years ago when I was thinking it would be nice to have a gents ring with a Tsavorite. It looked like an emerald, but I think back then it was something like $500/carat. There was a chrome tourmaline that store had, and it was $800. I can''t remember the carat weight exactly, but it wasn''t too large. It may have been just over a carat or close to 2. I can''t remember exactly how much. After that, those things jumped up. So it''s possible that those things have jumped up like they have...but geez. I just have to wonder.

As for shows, there is one in particular who is/was a complete shciester. I don''t like to say names, but when you screw people over and don''t deliver what you promised like that putz on one show in particular, then I will name a name. I don''t think he''s on the air, and if you want to know why I say that, I''ll tell you off the list. We had to get the credit card company to make them make good on things, and they tried to pass something else of lesser quality on us for more money than what he advertiesed it for, and the diamonds in it...HA!

Do you have a pic of that red beryl? I have never seen one before but I have heard of them. I am curious to see it if you have a good pic of it.

 

[Linda W]

Hello,

I just joined Pricescope and I found this forum. I purchased 3.43 Andesine stone on DSN. I am afraid I am one of those, who got caught up on all of the hype. I was going to save it for investment purposes, but maybe I''ll just have it made into a ring.

Linda

 

[jszweda]

Hi Linda.

Welcome to the list first off.

You sound dissappointed in getting what you''ve got. Why is that? Even if you just put it in a ring, what''s so wrong with that? As for investments, if it''s truly andesine and not laboradite, those aren''t exactly cheap from what I understand.

Could you tell us more? I''ve never bought anything from DSN but I know of the show. Was it a good experience or no?

 

[Linda W]

Hi Joe,

And Thank You for the welcome. I didn''t mean to sound upset, LOL. I haven''t received the stone yet. I was just beginning to wonder after reading the posts if it was really Andesine or Labradorite that I was going to receive. I should be receiving my stone in a few days.

I have purchased from DSN before. A Mandrin Garnet ring with diamonds. It is beautiful. The clarity of the diamonds are wonderful.

For our 25th wedding anniversary my husband wanted to get me an Emerald and diamond ring. Well, after going to the local jewelry stores, we gave up. They looked awful. Tiny stones, cloudy, carbon black spots, etc. You know what I mean.

Well, we turned on Gem Shopping Network and they flashed a 2.07 Colombian Emerald and diamond ring. It was gorgeous. We called and bought it. It was a closeout.

When I received it, my mouth dropped open. The clarity was unbelieveable. We paid $2,000 for it at their closeout price. We had it appriased at our local jewelry store, who has been in business for 40 years. When I handed them my ring, his eyes fell out of his head LOL.

My ring came back appraised at $9,250.00, so I did get a fantastic deal.

Linda

 

[jszweda]

It may be andesine, but as you know, the only way to find out is to get it tested. Even if it''s laboradite, it''s still a comodity of sorts. I use that term loosely as it is a hot item in certain markets.

I''d love to see a pic of your mandarin though. I have a real thing for those things.

So you got a good Columbian emerald from GSN for $2000 on closeout? Was it late at night after Marvin had too much to drink maybe? LOL. If you want to get something from them, weekends with Steve or way late at night is the best time.

I know of someone who got a gorgeous Sean cut cornflower blue sapphire ring from them. It was on auction, and the price was right. Nobody bid on it, the opener was low, so they grabbed it. Steve wasn''t too thrilled to have let it go for that price but the buyer sure was. LOL. I saw the diamonds in it too.

I normally don''t like to mention vendors by name but since we''re on the topic, I can say that I can attest to the quality of that particular networks stuff. When they say D-G/H color, SI1+, bank on it. There might be one H color stone in an item. The rest will be D-F. The worst stone you''ll typically get will be a VS1, but you will find IF stones in there and VVS1''s no problem.

There is just one problem with buying stones from those networks. A lot of those stones aren''t calibrated, so finding a setting can be a real pain sometimes unless you know of someone who does custom work. If it''s for a woman''s ring, it''s not as big of a deal as it might be otherwise.

If you have a pic of the stone, I''d love to see it. I also found out some more stuff on this tanzanite hype, and I was right. The people who are now starting to control it have a stash of it somewhere, and I found out about the DeBeers rumor too.

 

[Linda W]

Hi Joe,

I won''t mention networks anymore LOL. Yes, that network does have beautiful pieces and I am so happy with my Emerald and diamond ring. It is signed too (initials stamped inside the ring). Now for the other network that sells all of the Tanzanite. I do not trust them. They keep saying Tanzanite is going to be gone. Well then how come we keep seeing it on their network?

Is DeBeers buying it? I do have a beautiful Tanzanite ring I bought in 2004 from another network. I did want a Tanzanite ring. It is the true navy color that everyone wants now and is hard to find, it also has the red flashes. I had it made into a ring at that time. Bezel set, as to protect it. 1.92 carats. Again, the jewelers eyes popped LOL. Can''t find that color now, or it is hard too. I should have it appraised now, wonder what it would be worth.

How do I have my andesine stone tested to see if it is really andesine?

When I receive it, I can take a photo of it and email it to you if you would like?

Linda

 

[Linda W]

I forgot to mention. When I purchased the Andesine stone, the whole show for 3 hours was nothing but andesine. All shapes and sizes. I wanted a trillion cut, but I couldn''t get through to the phone lines. The gentleman from Congo had just left too. The had tons of andesine stones, huge stones, down to the smallest ones.

Linda

 

[MJO]

Hello Linda,

I have to admit I love andesine and sunstone. I do not get that shopping channel. Can I ask you what they are selling top grade 5ct+ stones for? I just picked up a very nice 11ct green stone with only a small shiller line in it for $850.

Regards,
Maurice Oppeniiemer

 

[jszweda]

Hi Linda.

If you want to mention a specific vendor, that''s your business. LOL. I don''t have any say over that anyways, and it''s just a personal preference of mine.

As for the tanzanite, and that particular network, there is a simple explanation for it, and then I''ll answer the other question about DeBeers and that.

That particular network said that some years ago, Frank bought a freaking load of stuff when the bottom dropped on it. So he went in, and he bought enough material to last him for 20 years. So he has a stockpile and a half of that stuff. That''s why he has it because it''s old rough. He probably paid peanuts for it, and he''s making out like a bandit. It was a smart move on his part, but that''s why he has so much of it.

As far as the stuff being mined out and DeBeers, here is the deal. There was rumor that said DeBeers was going to take over it and control the price of it and all this. There is little of anything left, and within 5-10 years, what is there will be gone. The block D stuff is mined out. They haven''t seen anything coming out of the ground since July of last year or the year before in that really dark blue material.

Here is the reality. There are 5 mine owners who decided to form a company. They also happen to work for DeBeers, or they are affiliated with them somehow. They are forming a company that seems to work like how DeBeers works, but it''s not them persay.

They plan on developing a grading system for tanzanite like DeBeers did with diamonds. They are going to classify what is there by that system and market it accordingly. They also said that they have an inventory of that really deep blue block D material. They are sitting on a whole stash of it. So while it''s mined out, they have it, but they are going to control it.

I have a feeling that someone perpetuated the mine out of certain material for the purposes of hoarding. It worked out to their benefit if they in fact did that. So that is how that works. How much of what they have stockpiled, who knows.

I have a feeling there may be something up with Tsavorite too since it''s not too far from Tanzania to Tsavo park. There is expected to be a price increase in that this year too supposedly, and this story about 1000 carats a year coming out seems to be hogwash. I have a feeling someone there caught on to how things work, and that''s the next one they are going to control.

That one network is also saying that the mandarins are becoming increasingly hard to find, and I have heard that from other independent sources. Supposedly what little is coming out of the ground is going to Japan. So at some point, it is expected that there will be no more rough or cut stones shipped to the US because the Japaneese market is willing to pay a premium for those things. If you''ve noticed, they also haven''t been selling very many of the smaller stones either.

 

[Linda W]

Joe,

Thank you for all of the info. The Tanzanite I have, must be from the Block D because it is the deep blue color and the jeweler flipped for it. The Tanzanite he had in his jewelry case was the medium/light color. I don''t wear my ring too often, because I don''t want to bang it and chip the stone.

I have also heard that about mandarin stones too, that they are becoming extinct. I am a sucker I guess for "extinct stones". LOL.

Maurice: I didn''t pay too much attention to the highter carat weight stones. They had some that were 15c. Mine is 3.43 and I paid $172.00 for it. I don''t know yet how many inclusions it has, or if it is a horrible looking stone. If it is, I most likely will send it back. All I know is, the host spent hours showing Andesine every cut imagineable on his show. Now I can''t even rememeber which cut I ordered. I think it was the cushion. I had wanted the trillion or the emerald cut, but the phone lines were jammed.

Linda

 

[Linda W]

Maurice,

They did state All of the Andesine stones were AAA


Linda

 

[jszweda]

Linda,

That''s an awesome price for what it is. The only way to tell for sure is to have it tested...spectroscopy will tell you for sure though.

If you want to PM me for my email addy...assuming I can find the PM button. LOL

 

[Linda W]

Having it tested will be a good idea. Now where in the world do I take it to do that? A regular jeweler???

When I receive the stone, I will email you a picture. I hope the price is good, if it is a real Andesine. LOL


Linda

 

[jszweda]

Linda,

You can take it to your local jeweler for a lab identifacation report or appraisal. He/she will send it to an independent appraiser or lab, who will tell you for sure. You could also send your stone to GIA if you wanted to for testing-for a price. You can also approach an independent lab or appraiser in your area to test it.

Remember, for it to be considered andesine, there has to be a certain ratio between calcium and sodium ions in the crystal matrix, and within a certain range. If it falls in that range, then it''s andesine. If it is in fact andesine, I have heard of people having that appraised at anywhere between $1500-$2000 a carat recently. It''s a lot rarer than red laboradite. If it turns out to be red laboradite, I''d say it''s still not a bad price at all-personally.

I would love to see a pic of that mandarin garnet ring too.

 

[Linda W]

Hi Joe,

I will take the andesine stone to my jeweler then to have it appraised and to find out if it is real. It seems to me, if it turns out to be labradorite, woudln''t DSN be in trouble for selling their stones as andesine?

I will have to have my hubby take a picture of my mandarin on my hand. Hope that doesn''t turn out to be a spess. HA.

Linda

 

[jszweda]

Linda,

If DSN or any other vendor sells you something as andesine, and it''s not andesine, that''s fraud. Now, if they were told it''s andesine and it''s not, they are still liable for damages although they could say there was no malicious intent as they relied on what they were told. However, I am sure they would make good on it as they likely value their reputation that much if something like that were to happen.

As far as the mandarin is concerned, there is a technical definition used for that. Without starting WW III over this, there are those who will say if it''s not from Namibia, it''s not a mandarin.

The definition of mandarin used by many vendors is something to the effect of the following:

-It is in the range of yellow/ORrange to red/Orange (IGA accepts this color range for a given spessertite as a mandarins range of color regardless of the origin)
-It is in fact a spessertite by chemical composition
-The absence of brown tone or a limited amount of brown tone.

Now, before everyone''s feathers get ruffled up here...there are those who will judge the tone by the dominant color as determined by the GIA method of color grading. There are vendors who will look at the presence or absence of tone in the flash of the stone itself as opposed to the face up tone. Based on that, a vendor may say it meets mandarin criteria. Based on face up tone, that''s a whole other ball game. So if you want to get picky about it, it depends on whose definition of "mandarin" you use.

If you look at one network in particular, they will refer to certain stones as dark mandarins. They face up quite dark like a very dark spessertite would appear. However, if you look at the dominant color in the stone when they show it on camera as with any spessertite they show, there is no brown tone at all. In the light, there may or may not be any face up tone, so based on that, they will refer to it as a mandarin.

Now, when you go to color grade a stone, it has to be done in a controlled lighting source. Pending the lighting you use, your results will vary greatly. If your stone has a table that takes up 50% or more of the area facing up, GIA will say that window is your dominant color and the flash is the secondary color. Otherwise, as you rotate the stone 30 degrees beneath a specific light source (5000K+ with a CRI of 91+), the flash is the dominant color.

Now, if you want to know why I am stressing that, there is a reason. Take for instance the cornflower sapphire I saw from that one network and another jeweler who had one also. I have seen both in person.

The stone from the network faces up like a periwinkle colored stone. If you rotate the stone in the light, you will see flashes in which are the epitome of cornflower blue. If you used the same technique on the same stone I saw in another store, the GG there said it was a dark cornflower sapphire. It faced up like a Kashmir sapphire, but the flash is cornflower blue with a dark tone. So although face up it''s a royal blue sapphire, the flash of the stone says it is a dark toned cornflower blue sapphire.

So when you look at your other ring, keep that in mind as you go to determine what it is. Some purists will say it''s a spessertite though as the original find in Namibia is a fanta orange and very sleepy looking. There are microtubules of rutile in there that make it so. A mandarin is still part of the spessertite family, but a spessertite isn''t always a mandarin.

HTH

 

[Linda W]

Good Lord is that ever confusing about the sessp/mandarin. That is all DSN sells is Mandarins, rings, earrings, as well as just gemstones, no sessp. I will be curious now to see exactly what I have.

You are a big help Joe, and I really appreciate it.

Linda

 

[jszweda]

Linda,

Based on what they show, and that definition that I gave you, what DSN is showing is a mandarin by that criteria. It''s all relative. However, generally what these shows sell that is in fact spessertite is either red in the dominant color with orange as the secondary color, or it''s orange for the dominant color but the brown in there gets in the way of the flash in the stone. I saw one of those shows sell a ring with a "light spessertite". It was a peach color with brown hues in the flash, and it wasn''t very saturated. I''ve seen some red spessertites that are lovely, and they generally appraise for about $800+/carat pending the stone. They may even have a hint of orange in them, but those are spessertites. They just happen to be red.

Now having said that, one GG may just use spessertite as a blanket term, and others may say mandarin spessertite. According to one GG I know of, he told me a "true mandarin" will go for something like 2 grand a carat give or take, pending the size and such. If it''s an "orange spessertite", it''s more like $1800 a carat. If you go buy the GIA color book, there is a very exclusive color known as mandarin orange, and if you waiver in the slightest from that, some won''t dub it that.

The industry though has expanded the term though since the Nigerian find, and that seems to be the case with any given stone that is found. So keep that in mind, and if someone says it''s a spessertite and not a mandarin, don''t get all offended. It depends on what definition you''re using. By the GIA color book, they''re all spessertites. By the industry standard, it''s another story.

The stuff from Namibia to me is ugly for the most part. I don''t care for the cloudy appearance of most of what comes out of there, and I don''t care for that particular color. The stuff from other places is more of a pure orange or reddish orange, and a lot cleaner. I prefer that over the Namibian stuff. Supposedly certain markets will pay a premium for the darker stones as well as compared to other markets. So it''s all relative.

Here is a link to the International Colored Gemstone Association that gives their color range for "mandarins". Like I said, some people have some really strong feelings about it, and some people may not agree with it. Others might.

http://www.gemstone.org/gem-by-gem/english/mandarin.html

HTH

 

[Linda W]

Thank you Joe, I will check that link out.

I bought my ring, or I should say my hubby did last year for my birthday. It is a 2 carat stone with .50 carats of diamonds around it. The diamonds are beautiful, clear and bright. They don''t look like ice chips if you know what I mean. We paid $400 for the ring. I am sure it is worth more than that.

Linda

 

[nicky newark]

Date: 1/17/2006 10:40:39 PM
Author: jszweda
Hi Nick.

I know exactly what you mean about mined out mandarin and tanzanite on that one show in particular. Now, I am not saying they''re scamming anyone or anything like that, and I can personally attest to their quality from seeing it on other stuff.

I wonder if that one guy did with his mandarin rough like he did the tanzanite rough. That particular individual said on a number of occassions why he has no shortage on it, and you''re probably smart enough to figure out what kind of deal he got on it.

Supposedly, right before 2000, the price bottomed out on Tanzanite. So when it did, that guy scarfed up enough for mega cheap. He said on camera on more than one ocassion that he bought enough of that stuff to last him 20 years. I could belive that as there seems to be no shortage of it on his end. As for the other rough he has, who knows. So granted, the stuff is mined out, and he has a freaking mine and a half, and he''s cashing in on it. I can''t blame him, but I wouldn''t be suprised if someone in Tanzinia did the same thing and nobody knows about it.

I will say this though about that one show I think you''re refering to. When they say D-H colored diamonds SI-VS clarity, you may find one G/H stone in the bunch. Most of those stones will be D-F/VS1-VVS1. Sometimes too, they will give you a really good deal on certain things. Supposedly the rhodolites from Ceylon are mined out. They were getting rid of some decent sized stones for $20/carat. Now, weather they are mined out or not, who knows. For $40 a carat online or better (pending the vendor), that''s not a bad deal at all.

The Tsavorites...ugh. I remember a few years ago when I was thinking it would be nice to have a gents ring with a Tsavorite. It looked like an emerald, but I think back then it was something like $500/carat. There was a chrome tourmaline that store had, and it was $800. I can''t remember the carat weight exactly, but it wasn''t too large. It may have been just over a carat or close to 2. I can''t remember exactly how much. After that, those things jumped up. So it''s possible that those things have jumped up like they have...but geez. I just have to wonder.

As for shows, there is one in particular who is/was a complete shciester. I don''t like to say names, but when you screw people over and don''t deliver what you promised like that putz on one show in particular, then I will name a name. I don''t think he''s on the air, and if you want to know why I say that, I''ll tell you off the list. We had to get the credit card company to make them make good on things, and they tried to pass something else of lesser quality on us for more money than what he advertiesed it for, and the diamonds in it...HA!

Do you have a pic of that red beryl? I have never seen one before but I have heard of them. I am curious to see it if you have a good pic of it.

Hi Joe- Here is the red beryl. The .47 is the square cut. Sorry it took so long, I am trying to get a handle on digital photo posting.

 

[jszweda]

Nick,

Nice! It looks like somewhere between a really awesome ruby or a rubelite tourmaline.

-joe

 

[jszweda]

Linda,

Pending the diamonds, I think it''s fair to say you got your money''s worth and then some. Pedning the particulars on the diamonds, that half carat alone could go for more than what you paid for it, to maybe $1500-$2000 pending the specs. I know that particular show has some really good diamonds in there stuff typically.

The center stone alone is right around one of those magic numbers. When you get to 2 carats on those stones, they take a price jump. Then after that, I think it''s the 5 carat mark where they take another jump. I have heard $500-$1000 a carat for smaller stones. I have seen one ring in particular that was advertised from a well known chain retailer. If you figured in for the gold weight, the accent diamonds, and then what was left was the center stone, it was within that range for a dinky little 85 pointer.

Call me nuts, but I have a feeling I know where that rough is coming from with that one particular network. Supposedly, the stuff out of Namibia is pretty much gone. I''ve heard the brown stuff is coming out of the ground-end of story. I don''t think there is anything coming out of Nigeria at all or nothing worth talking about.

Given the size and color of what I am seeing, I have a feeling either much of what''s there is old rough, and I have a feeling there is some stuff coming from Brazil that someone has a connection too.

Anyways, you probably got a very good deal on what you''re describing. Hell, you go to a jewelry store, if you get a really chinsey band with I1-I2 chips, it''s $600-$700. There is nothing special about it. I can personally attest to that. You could look around and see that for yourself. You want a half carat of VS diamonds? LMAO...not many stores will carry that including some of your better jewelry stores.

 

[Linda W]

Hi Joe,

I''ll say. I was shocked of the beauty of the diamonds. I have only bought two things from DSN. The Mandarin and diamond ring and now the Andesine I am waiting for. I should have the mandarine appraised too. I think I will in a few months. I''ll be sure to let you know when I do.

Linda

 

[MJO]

Nick,

The larger one looks very clean.

Regards,
Maurice

 

[nicky newark]

Hi Maurice- They are all pretty clean, it is just a very poor photo. I really need to learn how to take better digital pictures. The larger square and the round below it both came from Scott Forrest. http://www.hubertgem.com has 3 red beryls set in rings. The .48 set in platinum looks like a pretty nice stone.

 

[minerslady]

Red Labradorite/Andesine/Oregon Sunstone....they all fall under the same category, as in andesine is found in some Oregon sunstones, and Oregon sunstones are labradorite, and from what investigations "we've" done, the same location....Oregon. News has it that there is a Tibetan sunstone. What happened to the Congo sunstones?? Supposedly the Tibetan sunstone mine is located high in the Himalayas of Tibet. On their way down the mountain, the Himalaya miners had to grind the "sunstones" down so the jagged edges of the rough stones wouldn't rip their backpacks. (Great story!) But, there is no rough available, only faceted stones. Has anyone ever seen a piece of the rough material? No one I know... Does this make sense to anyone? I'll try to keep my opinions to myself, but those stones from Mongolia/Congo "look like ours"!
As an Oregon sunstone miner, i would just have to say that we can not fill a backpack full of red sunstones/labradorite/or andesine in one day using primitive mining techniques (as used at 10,000ft. in Tibet).

 

[MJO]

Date: 2/16/2006 2:56:35 PM
Author: minerslady
Red Labradorite/Andesine/Oregon Sunstone....they all fall under the same category, as in andesine is found in some Oregon sunstones, and Oregon sunstones are labradorite, and from what investigations ''we''ve'' done, the same location....Oregon. The Chinese came out with some gorgeous faceted red sunstones several years ago. Then, the story was that they came from the Congo. NOW, the story is that they are from Mongolia or Tibet. Supposedly they are from high in the Himalayas of Tibet. But these faceted ''red labradorite'' and also the faceted ''andesine'' all come from one source in Thailand.... hummmm On their way down the mountain, the Himalaya miners had to grind the ''sunstones'' down so the jagged edges of the rough stones wouldn''t rip their backpacks. (Great story!) But, there is no rough available, only faceted stones. In fact, I heard that the ''source'' in Thailand hasn''t even seen a piece of the rough material. Does this make sense to anyone? I''ll try to keep my opinions to myself, but those stones from Mongolia/Congo ''look like ours''!
As an Oregon sunstone miner, i would just have to say that we can not fill a backpack full of red sunstones/labradorite/or andesine in one day using primitive mining techniques (as used at 10,000ft. in Tibet).

Hello Minerslady,

I have to say the very best red I''ve seen is from Oregon. I''ve only seen 2 peices of what I concider top top. One of them is a 3.55ct Round brilliant I have posted a picture of in another thread. It is a small looking round above the pear shape in the box.

Can I ask you if you have any of these non shiller top red Oregon stones and if so if you can post pictures?

Regards,
Maurice

 

[minerslady]

Dear Nick and All,

I have spent the last 4 years mining Oregon Sunstones. As I was checking out the Tibetan Sunstone website I was laughing hysterically! I now have even more evidence (look at the picture of the rough) that it is so bogous. I'm laughing. Those look just like Oregon Sunstones, which can be called Red Labradorite, and sometimes even tests as Andesine. Another thing, to contradict some of the info on their website, not all Oregon Sunstones have "schiller", and they can be "blood red", red-orange, cranberry-red, green and red, red-schiller, green, very green (as from the Burns, OR area and at the Spectrum Mine, in Plush, OR), blue, and even purple. The red color can be "centered" in the stone, or occur in spots or feather throughout the stone. Not every Oregon Sunstone looks like the Tibetan Sunstone, but every Tibetan Sunstone has a stunningly remarkable mirror-like resemblance of an Oregon Sunstone! Try ordering a piece of rough from the Tibetan Sunstone Mine.

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I was in Tucson and spoke to the vendors with this particular stone. I tried my hardest to acquire a piece of rough Tibetan Sunstone to compare it with my Oregon Sunstones, but it seems only faceted stones currently exist from the Tibetan Sunstone Mine. I heard that the miners actually do some lapidary work up top the 10,000ft. mountain, at the mine, before descending: they round these 'high end", "top-of-the-line" red feldspars so that the jagged edges don't rip their backpacks (true story). Basically, it seems impossible to get a piece of rough from the "tibetan sunstone mine". Get the picture. Until the world sees a piece or rough, I disbelieve in Tibetan Sunstone.

So one question??????? Has anyone ever seen a piece of the rough Tibetan sunstone? I would like to purchase a piece.

Jessica