speaking of the 2 months salary rule for e-ring...

[cute330xigrl]

Date: 1/23/2005 10:38:13 AM
Author: cflutist

Date: 1/23/2005 9:18:27 AM
Author: perry
However, some of us are single and what we make is what we''ve got; which does not change the mortgage payments....

Perry

I hear ya there. My ex and I bought what is my current home in 1992. In 1993 he has an affair, runs off with the b*tch and divorces me. In the divorce, I buy him out (thank god we didn''t have too much equity at the time) so he gets most of our savings while I get the house. I can tell you it is no fun making a mortgage payment that we used two incomes to qualify for when you only have one income. After the house payment and utilities, I had only $500 left to live on each month (had a lot of canned soup and pasta for dinner). I felt like a poor college student again. But I perservered and hung on, hence the ''survivor'' in me that Jennifer5973 refers to in the Who''s Who thread. On top of this, my grandmother and both of my dogs die that same year.

p.s. good news is that you lose weight (no steak for dinner) ...

I lost 30 pounds before I met websailor.

wow cflutist. hats off to you for being so strong!!!

 

[fire&ice]

MMM, I thought Bayside was in Brooklyn?

We are very fortunate in my part of VA & NC. While homes have risen to extreme heights, real estate is *relatively* affordable. Here, $250,000 will buy a 2500 s.f. nicely appointed home in a good neighborhood - and they''ll throw in some trees to boot!

We had some vistors from SF area over for drinks at our little city bungalow. My mind was blown that our little house in their area would be closer to 1 mil.

How do young people afford to own?

We are very fortunate that the cost of living is low in both parts of our neck of the woods.

I never thought about it - but I guess cost of living vs salary truly does define "wealth".

Interesting, in VA we have a couple of people who commute to NYC every week via plane - just to live in a nice cost efficient home. Couldn''t afford to buy something really nice in NYC. They live in an apartment in NYC. Probably paid cash for their "mansion" here.

 

[cute330xigrl]

Date: 1/23/2005 11:46

2 AM
Author: fire&ice

MMM, I thought Bayside was in Brooklyn?

We are very fortunate in my part of VA & NC. While homes have risen to extreme heights, real estate is *relatively* affordable. Here, $250,000 will buy a 2500 s.f. nicely appointed home in a good neighborhood - and they''ll throw in some trees to boot!

We had some vistors from SF area over for drinks at our little city bungalow. My mind was blown that our little house in their area would be closer to 1 mil.

How do young people afford to own?

We are very fortunate that the cost of living is low in both parts of our neck of the woods.

I never thought about it - but I guess cost of living vs salary truly does define ''wealth''.

Interesting, in VA we have a couple of people who commute to NYC every week via plane - just to live in a nice cost efficient home. Couldn''t afford to buy something really nice in NYC. They live in an apartment in NYC. Probably paid cash for their ''mansion'' here.

Nope, Bayside is in Queens.

How do we afford? Good question. We decided to persevere early. I got a condo at 23, which I still own. Gave it to my mom to lve in until she retires (she plans on going back home to Kenya).I''ll pass it onto my future kids. We just got our starter home that we plan to expand. And We got a small house in Tampa which will be our vaca home when we have enuff $$ to renovate/expand it. It''s a lot of mortgages right now and stretching our income.. but if we continue to be blessed.. all will be payed off in 10yrs.

 

[Momoftwo]

We also bought our first home (1200 sq ft townhouse) at 22 (me) and 25 (dh) in 1982. We never expected to be able to buy a large single family home at that time, and no one gave us a penny. I do see a lot of young couples being extremely cash strapped because they think they have to have the largest home possible when they''re young, instead of delaying gratification til they can handle it.. We used equity to leverage up over the years and never bought more than we could handle on my husband''s salary. Wealth is really about all your assets, but the difference between cost of living and salary is what defines your true ability to purchase. Housing as a percentage of income is pretty consistent across the board. It really isn''t about how much you make, but about how you spend and save it. We could have bought a lot more house last year, but made financial decisions to maintain paying for college for our kids and being able to continue our lifestyle. I have neighbors with young children, or no children who make what we do that drive BMW''s and Mercedes and other luxury cars because they dont'' have the same expenses we do. Others bought in this neighborhood of Executive Homes driving 15 and 20 year old cars because that''s the only way they could afford it. We fall somewhere in the middle on vehicles, but, we spend over $35,000/yr on college for our kids and always buy homes with the ability to live on one income. That''s how I was able to stay home and raise my kids. Now I also work to pay for their college and extras. It really is all about how you choose to spend what you have.

Most people would say owning a vacation home makes you wealthy.

 

[Mara]

Oh my gosh, SHADOWBROOK, that brings back memories. When I was in HS that was THE place to go for before-prom dinners. I wasn't that impressed by it, surprisingly. That fact should have boded ill for future male suitors...hehehe.

We bought last year in Jan 2004, and I am so glad we did, our townhouses have already appreciated about 10-15% since we bought...and if we had waited, we could not have afforded to get in and still feel comfortable with the expense. I have friends now kicking themselves and paying substantially more to own the same places we were looking at a year ago. One friend just bought townhouse about 5miles from ours and paid $100k more than it cost a year ago when we were looking.

I was born and raised here in the BayArea, but I still become shocked when I see number jumps like that. This year of course 'they' are predicting again that the RE market will fall off a bit--but 'they' have been saying that for years. Who really knows!

I am a huge believer in property as an investment--wish I hadn't waited so long to get into my first one, and would agree that I think one is well-off when they have and can afford a vacation home. We'd love one in Tahoe...mostly for summer visits!

 

[chantal990]

Ok outside the US I know but in Melbourne we have had a HUGE price increase over the last few years for RE. Prices have been dropping quite nicely for the last 6 months which is great for me and my FI cause we''re looking to buy our first home now. But you still can''t get a house in the South side of the city for under $200k except for in one area The Pines *shudder* and that is just so not going to happen cause a suburb where you need bars on the windows really, really isn''t where I want to raise little kiddies.

I think we may get an apraprtment/townhouse in a nicer area also something closer to the CBD cause The Pines is also an hour away from the CBD. On the same note though we have a friend who paid over $300k for a 3 small beadroom ex government commission townhouse an hours walk from the nearest train station with buses that only run once an hour and a 52 minute train ride to the CBD where he works and thats a guy who''s on what is considered a good salary. I think I may wait for prices to go down a little bit more.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

We bought last year in Jan 2004, and I am so glad we did, our townhouses have already appreciated about 10-15% since we bought...and if we had waited, we could not have afforded to get in and still feel comfortable with the expense. I have friends now kicking themselves and paying substantially more to own the same places we were looking at a year ago. One friend just bought townhouse about 5miles from ours and paid $100k more than it cost a year ago when we were looking.


I am a huge believer in property as an investment--wish I hadn't waited so long to get into my first one, and would agree that I think one is well-off when they have and can afford a vacation home. We'd love one in Tahoe...mostly for summer visits!

Real estate is your best investment

My inlaws have made a nice amount of money in property development and this is the field my husband is in. We're buying property to build timerframe homes on. Luckily this is a passion of my husband's so it goes beyond producing income, but about making gorgeous quality homes that my husband is proud of. I'm just doing the accounting, which is the rather boring side of things. . .but hopefully my husband will build us a nice home someday which will make up for printing out 100s of pages of invoices and trying to keep all these accounts straight.

Prices of houses of course have gone up around here too, but due to the lower interest rates as our credit score went up, we actually purchased a house for 135K MORE than our previous house yet our payments are the same. lol!

 

[ForteKitty]

The pricing around here has gotten ridiculous. Someone I knew in college just bought a 27 yr old condo for $460,000. It''s 1600 sq. ft. including the garage. A 2 bed/2 bath apartment rents for $2000+. Average personal income is $60K+.

 

[cute330xigrl]

Date: 1/23/2005 3:28:40 PM
Author: Mara
Oh my gosh, SHADOWBROOK, that brings back memories. When I was in HS that was THE place to go for before-prom dinners. I wasn''t that impressed by it, surprisingly. That fact should have boded ill for future male suitors...hehehe.

We bought last year in Jan 2004, and I am so glad we did, our townhouses have already appreciated about 10-15% since we bought...and if we had waited, we could not have afforded to get in and still feel comfortable with the expense. I have friends now kicking themselves and paying substantially more to own the same places we were looking at a year ago. One friend just bought townhouse about 5miles from ours and paid $100k more than it cost a year ago when we were looking.

I was born and raised here in the BayArea, but I still become shocked when I see number jumps like that. This year of course ''they'' are predicting again that the RE market will fall off a bit--but ''they'' have been saying that for years. Who really knows!

I am a huge believer in property as an investment--wish I hadn''t waited so long to get into my first one, and would agree that I think one is well-off when they have and can afford a vacation home. We''d love one in Tahoe...mostly for summer visits!

Vacation Home=wealthy is true. However, in our case, it was a 30k shack on a nicely sized property. Nowhere near the capacity of the "wealthy" indiv. you may be thinking of. (maybe I''m wrong). We saw the potential of jus owning the land now even though the house can "barely" hold itself together as is. Real estate is onlyy going up, so we figured we''dtry and bite the bullet early.

 

[cflutist]

Date: 1/23/2005 9

8:51 PM
Author: cute330xigrl

Date: 1/23/2005 3:28:40 PM
Author: Mara

I am a huge believer in property as an investment--wish I hadn't waited so long to get into my first one, and would agree that I think one is well-off when they have and can afford a vacation home. We'd love one in Tahoe...mostly for summer visits!

Vacation Home=wealthy is true. However, in our case, it was a 30k shack on a nicely sized property. Nowhere near the capacity of the 'wealthy' indiv. you may be thinking of. (maybe I'm wrong). We saw the potential of jus owning the land now even though the house can 'barely' hold itself together as is. Real estate is onlyy going up, so we figured we'dtry and bite the bullet early.

Although websailor and I are both in the IT business, I would not consider ourselves wealthy (above average maybe).

However, we each own our own real estate, both of which have appreciated nicely.

My 3300 sq ft ridgetop home sits on one acre and has a beautiful 240 degree panoramic view - it is quite rare to have acreage in the San Francisco Bay Area.

Websailor owns 2 acres on the bluffs on the west side of Highway 1 overlooking the Pacific Ocean, south of Mendocino CA. When my house is paid off (hopefully in 5 years), we plan to build a custom home on websailor's property. However, it will be a real pain since it is located the the "Coastal Zone" which is overseen by the CA Coastal Commission. His neighbor has tried to get his house plans approved for 3 years now.

 

[hoorray]

Date: 1/23/2005 9:48

9 PM
Author: cflutist

Date: 1/23/2005 9

8:51 PM
Author: cute330xigrl

Date: 1/23/2005 3:28:40 PM
Author: Mara

I am a huge believer in property as an investment--wish I hadn''t waited so long to get into my first one, and would agree that I think one is well-off when they have and can afford a vacation home. We''d love one in Tahoe...mostly for summer visits!

Vacation Home=wealthy is true. However, in our case, it was a 30k shack on a nicely sized property. Nowhere near the capacity of the ''wealthy'' indiv. you may be thinking of. (maybe I''m wrong).  We saw the potential of jus owning the land now even though the house can ''barely'' hold itself together as is. Real estate is onlyy going up, so we figured we''dtry and  bite the bullet early.

Although websailor and I are both in the IT business, I would not consider ourselves wealthy (above average maybe).

However, we each own our own real estate, both of which have appreciated nicely.

My 3300 sq ft ridgetop home sits on one acre and has a beautiful 240 degree panoramic view - it is quite rare to have acreage in the San Francisco Bay Area.

Websailor owns 2 acres on the bluffs overlooking the Pacific Ocean, south of Mendocino CA. When my house is paid off (hopefully in 5 years), we plan to build on websailor''s property. However, it will be a real pain since it is located the the ''Coastal Zone'' which is overseen by the CA Coastal Commission. His neighbor has tried to get his house plans approved for 3 years now.

Coastal commission regulated property can be a real pain (I lived in Half Moon Bay for years), but is definately worth it in the long run. It sounds as if you can take your time and get it right, so maybe it won''t be so bad. Sounds like a great piece of land!

 

[cute330xigrl]

sure does sound nice. if u dont mind sharing.. have pics?

Cflutist, any advice you can give... We''re going to look into an architect re: expanding our home 2yrs from now. PM me if it''s too O.T. Thanks! Christina

 

[hoorray]

So, a questions for everyone... Over the last 2-3 years, as interest rates were at record lows and the stock market was wallowing, real estate everywhere seems to have gone nuts in the US. Is is slowing down anywhere? It sure seems that at some point it has to, but I haven''t seen many indications of it yet

 

[websailor]

Date: 1/23/2005 9:48

9 PM
Author: cflutist

Date: 1/23/2005 9

8:51 PM

Although websailor and I are both in the IT business, I would not consider ourselves wealthy (above average maybe).

However, we each own our own real estate, both of which have appreciated nicely.

My 3300 sq ft ridgetop home sits on one acre and has a beautiful 240 degree panoramic view - it is quite rare to have acreage in the San Francisco Bay Area.

Websailor owns 2 acres on the bluffs on the west side of Highway 1 overlooking the Pacific Ocean, south of Mendocino CA. When my house is paid off (hopefully in 5 years), we plan to build a custom home on websailor''s property. However, it will be a real pain since it is located the the ''Coastal Zone'' which is overseen by the CA Coastal Commission. His neighbor has tried to get his house plans approved for 3 years now.

The boss asked me to post this, so here goes. It''s a 2 ac, South Facing, Sloped, with minor Vegetation, irregular shaped lot.

As you can see, it''s bare land. There are no such things as subdivisions in the area, so you must have a home custom designed. Because it is subject to CA Coastal Commision guidelines, it must be unobtrusive and must fit in with the local environment. So think, long, low, with lots of windows....

All the surrounding area will remain natural - trees, grasses, small bushes, all very low maintenance and native to the area.

If you like this, our neighbor''s property (also bare land, no house) is for sale - he really wants to sell it, so it''s a steal at only $600,000.

 

[cute330xigrl]

where''s the icon! holy shmokes!!!!

that''s incredible! absolutely incredible! thanks for posting!!! wow. best of luck with it.

I''m only $500k short of putting in a bid. lol I''ll keep dreaming abou it.

 

[websailor]

Oh, forgot to mention this - it''s a great surfing spot and an abalone diving area... I don''t like them myself, so you can have my abalones....

 

[Mara]

That''s a great view! I would actually love to see what types of houses are built on land like that...any pictures?

I am not a fan of the Pacific Ocean in CA...too cold to live near it (I lived in Santa Cruz for a few years while I went to college), so we won''t be purchasing any oceanfront property to Greg''s chagrin (he loves the ocean).

I''m more a tropical person--I could see us purchasing oceanfront in Tahiti or somewhere similar, but not CA! People always stare in amazement when I tell them I don''t like the ocean here...it''s funny because so many people specifically come to see it here (and SF which I also dislike for being too cold) and yet I could not see it for a few years and never miss it!

 

[websailor]

Mara,

Here are a few examples of homes in this area....

I like ones like this one:

I'm not so sure you would like any of the French Polynesian islands, especially if you say you don't like the Pacfic Coast, or the

Shadowbrook Restaurant

. First of all, the FP islands just exude romance...you can't help being in romantic love while you are there. Secondly, everyone is friendly

(or at least every single person I met in FP was), and smiling

, and they seemed genuinely happy

to talk about the differences between themselves, the French, and Americans (or whatever your background was).

Finally, you'd have to give up your diamonds (oh no!!!!) and switch to Tahitian Black Pearls....

 

[hoorray]

Date: 1/23/2005 11:37:21 PM
Author: websailor
Oh, forgot to mention this - it''s a great surfing spot and an abalone diving area... I don''t like them myself, so you can have my abalones....

i looovvvveeee abalone! We used to get them off the Channell islands. I''ll take yours any day.

 

[Mara]

Yep, we're pretty familiar with FP as we were there in May for our honeymoon and adored it. We talk about moving there every other week! I would open a flower shop and Greg would be a local musician.

For me the Pacific Coast isn't quite like FP...the former is absolutely no comparison! Shadowbrook does have lovely gardens...something I do admire.

I've already got the Black Pearls...I think they make a fitting pair with any diamond though I haven't quite figured out what to do with mine just yet. I would never give up my diamonds just for a move!

I love the interior photo shots...

 

[Kamuelamom]

Date: 1/24/2005 1:23:30 AM
Author: websailor


I'm not so sure you would like any of the French Polynesian islands, especially if you say you don't like the Pacfic Coast, or the

Shadowbrook Restaurant

. First of all, the FP islands just exude romance...you can't help being in romantic love while you are there. Secondly, everyone is friendly

(or at least every single person I met in FP was), and smiling

, and they seemed genuinely happy

to talk about the differences between themselves, the French, and Americans (or whatever your background was).

Finally, you'd have to give up your diamonds (oh no!!!!) and switch to Tahitian Black Pearls....

Yes, I'd agree with you Websailor, generally island living is for friendly, laid back folks who like the simple good life. Unfortunately, even that is changing since we are getting newcomers (with money) to the islands all the time who just don't get it and many of their attitudes just don't mix with the old ways of simple island living. They think that their money or where they came from gives them the right to treat others down.

I'm just not into folks with attitudes and egos that scream "me, me, me."

BTW, Shadowbrook sounds like a romantic slice of heaven. I want a piece.

 

[Momoftwo]

The stock market hasn''t exactly been "wallowing". But, anyway, the real estate market is still very hot across the country. The only slowdown that has been seen is that most people who were moving up have done so. My father is a real estate agent. Most of what he''s seeing now is relocations and first time buyers who juts hit the market to look. Interest rates are still historically phenomenally low. It''s perspective. Sure, they''ve gone up a little, but they''re still very low. We took advantage of the increase in value of our previous home along with a lower interest rate and moved into our brand new home just over a year ago. This was the first of the 3 previous homes we owned that we made any money on due to timing. There was a story on CBS over the weekend about housing prices, ($1m+ in Ny for an apt and $150,00 for a home in Little Rock) and how the market doesn''t seem to be slowing and the most change anyone might see with a real estate adjustment would be 10% loss on current prices. Most of us have made so much more in that time frame that 10% is not going to break anyone. Like the stock market, the real estate market has a long term growth rate that is positive. Where people get in trouble is short term investing. True wealth is based on a number of variables.

As for the two month salary rule, I think my DH would choke if he had to spend 2 months salary on a ring. We could buy a new car for that much. The prices on some things aren''t affected by where you live, like diamonds and stocks. The market for them is not local, it''s worldwide so things like which state you live in have no real effect. So, your two months income in a lower income area won''t buy as much as in a higher income area, but that doesn''t mean the person in the higher income area is wealthier.

 

[ursulawrite]

My husband and I (he''s 31, I''m 27) have just bought our first place in NYC (1400 sq. ft loft in Soho).

He bought me a very modest ring, by NY standards, but being the clever man that he is, we have saved hard for a downpayment and bought a home that costs significantly over $1m. His friends that stuck to the two-month e-ring rule or exceeded it are still renting and have confided in him that their extravagant spending habits (big rocks, Land Rovers, Prada) ensures they will be for some time to come. I may not have the two-carat rock, but damn, I will soon be moving in to one cool apartment!

 

[fire&ice]

There is nothing like home ownership. Ain''t interest deduction grand!

That being said, you really have to know what your getting into with owning a second home. You have twice the utilities. You have twice the real estate taxes

. You have twice the homeowner''s insurance (which keeps going up and up). You have twice the maintenence issues. You have two homes to keep clean. And, you usually have to hire someone to mow the lawn & do maintence when you are not there - and kind of guess when you need it. You worry about weather issues like what effects did the ice storm take on the home that you are not in. And, it''s tough when you have emergency issues on one house when you are in the other - like having a 200 year old oak fall on yours and your neighbors house. So, you need to find a bevy of sub contractors who can keep the maintence up and for emergencies. And, if you frequent often, you live out of a suitcase. Sure, you have duplicates of your favs - but it''s foolish to buy two croc belts, etc. Maybe you can rent it out & hire a agent to do so - but I wouldn''t want someone plopping their unknown butt on my sofa.

Many of my friends with children are thinking of selling their second homes for the above reasons & they have to stay in town for their kids "events" like soccer, recitals, etc. - not to mention where their friends are.

Just the flip side.

Regarding real estate slow down, depends where you buy. But, housing has always been one of our best investments. And, one of the few unclosed loop holes with rollover.

 

[codex57]

Date: 1/24/2005 12:26:50 AM
Author: Mara
I am not a fan of the Pacific Ocean in CA...too cold to live near it (I lived in Santa Cruz for a few years while I went to college), so we won''t be purchasing any oceanfront property to Greg''s chagrin (he loves the ocean).

It''s not that bad in California. Don''t forget, Southern California has beaches along the Pacific Ocean as well. Take a trip down to Orange County or San Diego. It''s MUCH warmer than the Bay Area. Plus, unlike the tropical islands, we don''t have much humidity either.

 

[Cath]

Date: 1/24/2005 11:43:20 AM
Author: codex57

Date: 1/24/2005 12:26:50 AM
Author: Mara
I am not a fan of the Pacific Ocean in CA...too cold to live near it (I lived in Santa Cruz for a few years while I went to college), so we won''t be purchasing any oceanfront property to Greg''s chagrin (he loves the ocean).

It''s not that bad in California. Don''t forget, Southern California has beaches along the Pacific Ocean as well. Take a trip down to Orange County or San Diego. It''s MUCH warmer than the Bay Area. Plus, unlike the tropical islands, we don''t have much humidity either.

Mara -- I agree with Codex, SoCal has some very beautiful beaches and the weather is ideal. I used to love going to the beach to watch the sunset!! *sigh* And I have to say, the beaches in the Northeast suck big time -- YUCK.

Of course, nothing beats a tropical locale like Tahiti -- but give CA another chance!

 

[Mara]

Codex and Cath...the Southern CA beaches are definitely better than ours here in N.CA in terms of warmth!! We love visiting San Diego and Santa Barbara.

But my fondest dreams are of the warm tropical beaches...hehehe. I actually found that I preferred the Hawaiian and Tahitian slight humidity over the drier climates...I never used to be like that but maybe my body is changing! Oh except, I definitely didn''t love the way my fingers swelled!

 

[cflutist]

Date: 1/24/2005 2:22:19 AM
Author: Mara
Yep, we''re pretty familiar with FP as we were there in May for our honeymoon and adored it. We talk about moving there every other week! I would open a flower shop and Greg would be a local musician.

Yes, flowers are quite inexpensive in Tahiti. When we were there in April 2004 for our 10 day cruise of the islands, we stopped at Le Marche and bought a beautiful tropical flower arrangement for only $20 USD ... It would have cost over $100 back home.

 

[codex57]

Date: 1/24/2005 12:36:18 PM
Author: Mara
Codex and Cath...the Southern CA beaches are definitely better than ours here in N.CA in terms of warmth!! We love visiting San Diego and Santa Barbara.


But my fondest dreams are of the warm tropical beaches...hehehe. I actually found that I preferred the Hawaiian and Tahitian slight humidity over the drier climates...I never used to be like that but maybe my body is changing! Oh except, I definitely didn't love the way my fingers swelled!

Oh, if you like humidity, then SoCal can't help.

Can't please everyone I guess. There's always Florida for you. Tahiti and Hawaii are also better in that they have more secluded spots that are great if you want to get away from it all. Can't really find those spots on the mainland anymore. But, if you like tons of activity and nightlife along with a nice beach, come visit SoCal. We'd love ot have you.

 

[Mara]

On Moorea we found that there was only ONE flower shop on the whole island! Apparently everyone bought their flowers on Papeete--I was surprised that this flower shop did not even really sell the popular Tahitian flower leis (white, v. fragrant flowers like tuberose but called something else)...it seems as though with the FP island more on the map for tourists and things such as weddings, something like a flower biz on the smaller island like Moorea would eventually take off. Our florist in Kauai used to have a sleepy little business and she noted in the last 2 years she has been swamped with weddings and the like. Though maybe being 'swamped' is too much of a good thing if you are in a more relaxed frame of mind!

Codex..I actually find that Hawaii and Tahiti were not AS humid as I find in the East Coast or somewhere like a Florida. Whereas my Mom felt as though Hawaii was VERY humid for her. I used to only love dry climates, but now find that I am not as affected by slighter amounts of humidity. Life changes!

We are hoping to get over to SB or SD this year...!