Specific Gravity of Grade B Jadeite

[icy_jade]

Icy, do you know if it has to be super clear to have a glow. I recently saw a bangle that was not exceptionally icy but seemed to have a glow in lights. Is that possible?

Doesn’t have to be super clear but ultimately it is the quality of the type that determines if the jade will glow (and shape as well, I think flat pieces may not glow).

So clearly the fully opaque pieces will not have glow (though green ones can still have the stunning chromium effect), but reasonably icy ones can. I mean if it’s an icy piece and you shine a light on it then the likelihood is that it will look like it’s glowing ykwim? But with true glowy ones you don’t need strong light. It just catches the light and glows. Lemme see if I can find some pieces this weekend for pics (kids permitting).

@ChaiK so on that yeah not strong sunlight just some indirect source and the bangle should also glow. But I know the seller and I think if she says it glows then it probably does, but just a matter of how strong the effect is.

 

[icy_jade]

I usually see only see glowing in white jade. My jeweler has a bangle that really glows and it is beautiful. I did purchase this white jade ring that glows a bit.

Can glow in other colors but stunningly expensive

 

[Silvermom]

Doesn’t have to be super clear but ultimately it is the quality of the type that determines if the jade will glow (and shape as well, I think flat pieces may not glow).

So clearly the fully opaque pieces will not have glow (though green ones can still have the stunning chromium effect), but reasonably icy ones can. I mean if it’s an icy piece and you shine a light on it then the likelihood is that it will look like it’s glowing ykwim? But with true glowy ones you don’t need strong light. It just catches the light and glows. Lemme see if I can find some pieces this weekend for pics (kids permitting).

@ChaiK so on that yeah not strong sunlight just some indirect source and the bangle should also glow. But I know the seller and I think if she says it glows then it probably does, but just a matter of how strong the effect is.

Looking forward to seeing your glowing examples. Thanks Icy.

 

[Silvermom]

Can glow in other colors but stunningly expensive

So Icy, is it possible to be glass or icy and still NOT glow? Are you saying that glowing is a factor of certain type of jade? And that you don't necessarily have to be icy or glass type and still glow? Thanks for your patience.

 

[jadenewbie]

Yeah. The year before Covid 2020 was all about Live shows. I just have no time now to do it. I think pages 50 to 80 on this thread documents how we went mad over live shows.

I love buying from this vendor:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/513538349202703/user/100005187258312/

You guys started way before page 50 hahaha! Glad to know that you trust that seller because there's a slight fear at the back of my head that I might get scammed or whatever. I also like watching that seller but I find that this seller has better priced items and haggles better for me (https://www.facebook.com/wu.simin.39). But then again my budget is my budget.

Thanks for the reply! I feel my worries are eased about purchasing from livestream

 

[ChaiK]

See, we went so nuts over it I have even forgotten when we started. But yes. I like LS very very much.

 

[icy_jade]

So Icy, is it possible to be glass or icy and still NOT glow? Are you saying that glowing is a factor of certain type of jade? And that you don't necessarily have to be icy or glass type and still glow? Thanks for your patience.

Yes, can be icy and not glow. I have not seen enough glassy jadeite to comment but for icy ones, some glow and some don’t. So basically if it glows, it must be glassy or icy, but doesn’t mean that all glassy or icy jadeite will glow. Glutinous and the lower types will not glow as far as I’m aware.



My ring glows and my bangle doesn’t. Both are icy type but ring is far cleaner.
Upper left: indoor a distance from window - notice how the ring glows and bangle doesn’t?
Upper right: indoor with light from window - both glows
Lower left: shaded sunlight at window
Lower right: backlit so you can see the crystalline structure of the bangle.

So essentially my ring nearly always glows softly in various lighting conditions.

If I have time tomorrow will play with my other glowy cabs (other rings, earrings) and see if any diff.

 

[Silvermom]

Yes, can be icy and not glow. I have not seen enough glassy jadeite to comment but for icy ones, some glow and some don’t. So basically if it glows, it must be glassy or icy, but doesn’t mean that all glassy or icy jadeite will glow. Glutinous and the lower types will not glow as far as I’m aware.



My ring glows and my bangle doesn’t. Both are icy type but ring is far cleaner.
Upper left: indoor a distance from window - notice how the ring glows and bangle doesn’t?
Upper right: indoor with light from window - both glows
Lower left: shaded sunlight at window
Lower right: backlit so you can see the crystalline structure of the bangle.

So essentially my ring nearly always glows softly in various lighting conditions.

If I have time tomorrow will play with my other glowy cabs (other rings, earrings) and see if any diff.

THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH Icy! This is an amazing explanation. I so appreciate your expert advice. I know how much time this takes to explain and I am lucky to have a jade sister like you!!!!

 

[Silvermom]

Yes, can be icy and not glow. I have not seen enough glassy jadeite to comment but for icy ones, some glow and some don’t. So basically if it glows, it must be glassy or icy, but doesn’t mean that all glassy or icy jadeite will glow. Glutinous and the lower types will not glow as far as I’m aware.



My ring glows and my bangle doesn’t. Both are icy type but ring is far cleaner.
Upper left: indoor a distance from window - notice how the ring glows and bangle doesn’t?
Upper right: indoor with light from window - both glows
Lower left: shaded sunlight at window
Lower right: backlit so you can see the crystalline structure of the bangle.

So essentially my ring nearly always glows softly in various lighting conditions.

If I have time tomorrow will play with my other glowy cabs (other rings, earrings) and see if any diff.

I am also wondering if it has to be more on the colorless side for it to glow. You know the beautiful Barbara Hutton green bead jade necklace. Do you think that it glows?https://video.search.yahoo.com/sear...23bca6ecac2d309502488a8584837deb&action=click

 

[ChaiK]

Doesn’t have to be super clear but ultimately it is the quality of the type that determines if the jade will glow (and shape as well, I think flat pieces may not glow).

So clearly the fully opaque pieces will not have glow (though green ones can still have the stunning chromium effect), but reasonably icy ones can. I mean if it’s an icy piece and you shine a light on it then the likelihood is that it will look like it’s glowing ykwim? But with true glowy ones you don’t need strong light. It just catches the light and glows. Lemme see if I can find some pieces this weekend for pics (kids permitting).

@ChaiK so on that yeah not strong sunlight just some indirect source and the bangle should also glow. But I know the seller and I think if she says it glows then it probably does, but just a matter of how strong the effect is.

Thank you.

 

[Silvermom]

Just wanted to share this excellent webinar about jade grading, quality and history of jade also discusses what qualities in the jade make it most valuable. Long but interesting.

 

[icy_jade]

THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH Icy! This is an amazing explanation. I so appreciate your expert advice. I know how much time this takes to explain and I am lucky to have a jade sister like you!!!!

@ChaiK

@Silvermom Most welcome. Happy to share where I am able but not an expert. Just what I know and I may be wrong… given how bad my Chinese is so maybe I read some of the Chinese articles wrongly.

Alright, took some quick snaps of some of my jadeite that glows and other that don’t:

Indoor indirect natural light


Indoor with strong noon light in direction where x is


By the window, shaded sunlight


Direct sunlight


If you look at the earrings right on top (with pink & blue sapphires), it’s the least icy piece, and the earrings in the halo is glassy, with the pieces in between arranged from least icy to glassy in that order. But their degree of glow isn’t really based on how icy/glassy it is.

The greens are all icy too, but only the pale green has a bit of glow.

I don’t have glowy intense greens since they cost a bomb but you can see examples from pics.



Of course some of them have metal backings but for those jade that don’t have the glowy effect, a metal backing will make no difference as far as I’ve heard from sellers.

 

[jadenewbie]

I'd like to ask for advice on negotiating the price. I prefer nothing cards or no accident cards, and barrels. I think I'll develop a taste for more intricate carvings when I reach my 30s hahaha

This is 1800rmb, negotiated down to 1300. Measured 21.7x16.7x4.2mm.
I am very happy with this purchase and they just shipped it after around 2 weeks of me figuring out how to send money from the Philippines to a bank of china account. They were very patient given that my purchase is peanuts compared to other big ticket buyers.




This was 150rmb negotiated to 100rmb.


The leaf was 60rmb got it to 50. Shipping and purchase cost was an extra 350rmb


Now I look at this, it is a bright, opaque green with dark inclusions. 10x9x4mm.
How low can this price be negotiated?




Do these markings on the surface mean they need to be polished?

 

[Silvermom]

@ChaiK

@Silvermom Most welcome. Happy to share where I am able but not an expert. Just what I know and I may be wrong… given how bad my Chinese is so maybe I read some of the Chinese articles wrongly.

Alright, took some quick snaps of some of my jadeite that glows and other that don’t:

Indoor indirect natural light


Indoor with strong noon light in direction where x is


By the window, shaded sunlight


Direct sunlight


If you look at the earrings right on top (with pink & blue sapphires), it’s the least icy piece, and the earrings in the halo is glassy, with the pieces in between arranged from least icy to glassy in that order. But their degree of glow isn’t really based on how icy/glassy it is.

The greens are all icy too, but only the pale green has a bit of glow.

I don’t have glowy intense greens since they cost a bomb but you can see examples from pics.



Of course some of them have metal backings but for those jade that don’t have the glowy effect, a metal backing will make no difference as far as I’ve heard from sellers.

Icy, you have amazing pieces. I just love looking at your collection. Impressive indeed. Also the pictures of the intense greens are too nice. Do you think they actually look like that in real life. The reason I am wondering is because of the video of the Hutton bead necklace that I posted in the prior post. I have always seen it to look like the pictures that you posted above but in the video clip that I posted above the beads look not as intense and kind of washed out. Is it just my imagination or do they really look different to you too? I will continue to look for a glowing piece. I love having pieces that have different qualities. I did see a bangle at my jewelers that I thought had a little glow in it but I have to look at it again. The amazing green pieces most really a bomb. Imagine to have both intense color AND translucency. YIIKES. Could never afford it. In the webinar I posted above in the question and answer section at the end the guy said that most important factor is color then comes translucency but these that you posted have both.......... I WANT!
Thank you for taking the time to educate me jade sister. You have a beautiful collection.
Can you also please explain why people put metal backings in the back of their jade. What purpose does that serve? I have a jeweler friend that told me once not to buy pieces that had metal backing but I never did ask him why. I can't ask him now because I haven't seen him in years.

 

[jadenewbie]

Do you think the prices are fair? Or could I have pushed for a better bargain?

Also another thing, for similar size and translucency, does a landscape card cost more than a nothing card?
Also again for similar iciness and translucency, will a icy colorless cost less than an icy green of any shade?

 

[jadenewbie]

Can you also please explain why people put metal backings in the back of their jade. What purpose does that serve?

Curious too, I thought they added aluminum foil on unset jade to increase vibrancy a bit so you'd see what it would look like with a metal backing

 

[icy_jade]

I like icy colorless jadeite that glows (pretty obvious given my username) - so I have quite a bit of them but I try to make sure they are set differently so that they are still different enough. Thanks for liking my collection.

I have seen beautiful glowing greens at jewelry shows. You may have to sell an organ to afford them. Really quite mesmerizing irl.

Can you also please explain why people put metal backings in the back of their jade. What purpose does that serve?

Curious too, I thought they added aluminum foil on unset jade to increase vibrancy a bit so you'd see what it would look like with a metal backing

It’s like why sometimes moonstones are set with blacken metal - to help with the contrast/make the moonstone look better.

“Traditionally, when fine jadeite cabochons are mounted in jewelry, they are backed by metal with a small hole in the center. The metal acts as a foilback of sorts, increasing light return from the stone. “

Via: https://www.lotusgemology.com/index.php/library/articles/270-jade-buying-guide-jade-auction-records

As mentioned, only some jadeite will have an enhanced effect with backing. Those that don’t have the glow effect won’t look any different with or without backing. Those that glow will almost definitely be set with backing.

So I think maybe your jeweler didn’t give you the full picture. Of course, there could be some unethical sellers that try to hide issues with the cab/stone by using full backing, but I think most backing will either have a small hole or a panel that can be opened.

at the end the guy said that most important factor is color then comes translucency

Not always. Gross simplification. Compare icy bangles vs lower type (opaque) color bangles. The icy bangles are usually way more pricey right?

The saying I’ve heard is:
外行看色，内行看种

It sort of translates into amateurs look at color and experts look at type.

Am not saying to go for type above everything else, but frankly if you have seen enough jade, then color itself isn’t enough… there is a difference between lower type jade and jade with good water/type.

But of course, a good green but maybe not so icy vs a colorless super icy piece? The green one will be pricier. And individual preferences vary of course. But just want to say that color above all else is really a gross simplification. I actually no longer like “dry” looking jade, no matter how nice the color is.

If you look at my 2 loose cabs in the pics I posted, the pale pale green that glows is actually more pricey than the greener cab.

 

[peacechick]

Icy, you have amazing pieces. I just love looking at your collection. Impressive indeed. Also the pictures of the intense greens are too nice. Do you think they actually look like that in real life. The reason I am wondering is because of the video of the Hutton bead necklace that I posted in the prior post. I have always seen it to look like the pictures that you posted above but in the video clip that I posted above the beads look not as intense and kind of washed out. Is it just my imagination or do they really look different to you too? I will continue to look for a glowing piece. I love having pieces that have different qualities. I did see a bangle at my jewelers that I thought had a little glow in it but I have to look at it again. The amazing green pieces most really a bomb. Imagine to have both intense color AND translucency. YIIKES. Could never afford it. In the webinar I posted above in the question and answer section at the end the guy said that most important factor is color then comes translucency but these that you posted have both.......... I WANT!
Thank you for taking the time to educate me jade sister. You have a beautiful collection.
Can you also please explain why people put metal backings in the back of their jade. What purpose does that serve? I have a jeweler friend that told me once not to buy pieces that had metal backing but I never did ask him why. I can't ask him now because I haven't seen him in years.

Regarding the Hutton beads, here are some better photos that show their beauty and luminosity. In the case of this necklace, I believe the high price has to do with the how perfectly matched the colours of the beads are, the translucency and their provenance. Glowiness is probably not a requisite for this necklace’s desirability, although I bet it would look glowy if taken out of a dark auction house and into the sunlight.

 

[jadenewbie]

As mentioned, only some jadeite will have an enhanced effect with backing. Those that don’t have the glow effect won’t look any different with or without backing. Those that glow will almost definitely be set with backing.

Ohh I see I see. Thanks!

But of course, a good green but maybe not so icy vs a colorless super icy piece? The green one will be pricier.

Thanks! This is helping me decide between a vibrant green barrel or an icy colorless barrel to celebrate graduating school. Icy glowing it is, and it'll match with everything I wear too. Do you think sub 1kusd is enough? Or around 5000rmb for livestream shows

 

[icy_jade]

Thanks! This is helping me decide between a vibrant green barrel or an icy colorless barrel to celebrate graduating school. Icy glowing it is, and it'll match with everything I wear too. Do you think sub 1kusd is enough? Or around 5000rmb for livestream shows

Pls go with your personal preference. If you like color go for it. Ultimately it just needs to make you happy.

Depending on the quality, barrels are usually very affordable? Just looked at those from Kathy and it’s not the cheapest place to buy from but still the barrels are quite a bit below 1k?

KATHY JADE 翡翠玉石專業直營店｜官方網站

台灣最大翡翠線上交易網，全球唯一翡翠礦主直營店，從開採到銷售「一條龍」式經營，免去各層盤商層層剝削，貨真價實，保證A貨，假一賠十，更有十天鑑償期的保證。

www.kathyjade.com

I never do LS so I dunno LS price. Hopefully @ChaiK @mellowyellowgirl can help

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

Watched through the webinar, the gist of which seem to be that what we consider to be jadeite may actually be omphacite, kosmochlor or combination of two or all three subgroup (plus trace elements) of Fei cui, but that whether the main material is jadeite or omphocite shouldn’t affect value significantly…am I getting it right? I wonder whether the main jade mine in Northem Burma/Myanmar is primarily jadeite or omphacite…

 

[icy_jade]

Watched through the webinar, the gist of which seem to be that what we consider to be jadeite may actually be omphacite, kosmochlor or combination of two or all three subgroup (plus trace elements) of Fei cui, but that whether the main material is jadeite or omphocite shouldn’t affect value significantly…am I getting it right? I wonder whether the main jade mine in Northem Burma/Myanmar is primarily jadeite or omphacite…

But jadeite, omphacite and mawsitsit has always been different no? I mean, sellers do tell if it’s jadeite or omphacite for example. Is it just about the term feicui, which is anyway a Chinese term? I don’t even see that term on English only certs right?

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

But jadeite, omphacite and mawsitsit has always been different no? I mean, sellers do tell if it’s jadeite or omphacite for example. Is it just about the term feicui, which is anyway a Chinese term? I don’t even see that term on English only certs right?

I never saw a certificate describing the material as kosmochlor or omphacite, have you?

 

[icy_jade]

I never saw a certificate describing the material as kosmochlor or omphacite, have you?

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To me, it seems like there is an agenda for sellers to push for all types to be considered as similar (jadeite = better price) but there is a difference between the 3.

 

[prs]

Here is a LINK to a recent GIA webinar that describes the various types of Jadeite in great detail.

 

[jadenewbie]

this is 300usd. for something that would glow even in dim light, is a barrel shape rare for that kind of quality and reserved only for cabochons and carvings?

 

[icy_jade]

this is 300usd. for something that would glow even in dim light, is a barrel shape rare for that kind of quality and reserved only for cabochons and carvings?

Did the seller say it will glow (起荧光)? Yes is quite unusual since good quality cabs can go for quite a bit more $ and barrels use more material.

 

[jadenewbie]

Did the seller say it will glow (起荧光)? Yes is quite unusual since good quality cabs can go for quite a bit more $ and barrels use more material.

Ok, I will use this term in the future. Thank you!

If I really want to get serious about collection from LS I should learn the language or at least the basics

 

[Silvermom]

I like icy colorless jadeite that glows (pretty obvious given my username) - so I have quite a bit of them but I try to make sure they are set differently so that they are still different enough. Thanks for liking my collection.

I have seen beautiful glowing greens at jewelry shows. You may have to sell an organ to afford them. Really quite mesmerizing irl.




It’s like why sometimes moonstones are set with blacken metal - to help with the contrast/make the moonstone look better.

“Traditionally, when fine jadeite cabochons are mounted in jewelry, they are backed by metal with a small hole in the center. The metal acts as a foilback of sorts, increasing light return from the stone. “

Via: https://www.lotusgemology.com/index.php/library/articles/270-jade-buying-guide-jade-auction-records

As mentioned, only some jadeite will have an enhanced effect with backing. Those that don’t have the glow effect won’t look any different with or without backing. Those that glow will almost definitely be set with backing.

So I think maybe your jeweler didn’t give you the full picture. Of course, there could be some unethical sellers that try to hide issues with the cab/stone by using full backing, but I think most backing will either have a small hole or a panel that can be opened.



Not always. Gross simplification. Compare icy bangles vs lower type (opaque) color bangles. The icy bangles are usually way more pricey right?

The saying I’ve heard is:
外行看色，内行看种

It sort of translates into amateurs look at color and experts look at type.

Am not saying to go for type above everything else, but frankly if you have seen enough jade, then color itself isn’t enough… there is a difference between lower type jade and jade with good water/type.

But of course, a good green but maybe not so icy vs a colorless super icy piece? The green one will be pricier. And individual preferences vary of course. But just want to say that color above all else is really a gross simplification. I actually no longer like “dry” looking jade, no matter how nice the color is.

If you look at my 2 loose cabs in the pics I posted, the pale pale green that glows is actually more pricey than the greener cab.

Thank you Icy for your very detailed explanation. I love hearing what you have to say as you are so knowledgeable. I should have explained more about what my friend who is a jeweler had to say which I sometimes wonder about. He said that the backing is used to enhance the stone and if you really want to be sure that you have the quality of the stone that you are buying you should purchase one without the backing. Only then can you be sure. So I have always gone by his advice without questioning it although I have often thought about it. He said a nice stone will be nice even without the backing.
In regard to color vs. icy........hard decision, although I have always been a color person. I just watched the EXCELLENT video that PRS posted above and the GIA experts in that video around the 57.08 mark also said that color is the most important factor, then comes translucency which is what the experts in the video that I posted said. (I hope I am interpreting it correctly.) As I do love translucency too it really is a hard decision. I guess it will come down to personal preference in the end. And I got to say, you have impeccable taste. I am so glad that we are able to bounce off our ideas on each other. Lots of times I am not sure of how I feel about certain things about jade and can't decide whether it is important or not or have to decide whether to buy a piece or not and people like you make it easier for me to make a decision. Thank you jade sis.

 

[Silvermom]

Here is a LINK to a recent GIA webinar that describes the various types of Jadeite in great detail.

THANK YOU prs. Such and interesting video!