Tacky question

[december-fire]

Laila619 started this thread and asked about "disposable income", so I interpreted her question to be about wealth from a purely financial perspective. Not about family, friends, health, etc.

I see a lot of 'rich bashing' in attitudes and the media, and people seem to avoid describing themselves as wealthy.
'Well-off' or 'comfortable' seem to be definitions with which many are more at ease.

One can argue that being wealthy is relative, but once you're talking about disposable income you've already distinguished yourself from someone struggling to cover the basic necessities in life. I think that's the point that some other posters might have been making.

So how much disposable income is required before someone is deemed wealthy?
And should someone be ashamed or embarrassed if they are considered wealthy?
Is it less 'embarrassing' to call oneself 'well-off'?

I'm retired and financially independent with enough income to cover all my needs and a sufficient number of my wants.
Am I ashamed or embarrassed by that fact?
Absolutely not!
I worked very hard for a long time and went though some very expensive set-backs along the way.
I think it would be disrespectful to people in a less-favorable financial situation if I didn't acknowledge being well-off.

Ha! I can acknowledge being financially independent and well-off, but can't say 'wealthy'!

 

[kenny]

Momhappy, then 'in terms of perspective', we must also bring up temperature because when you are too hot or cold your wealth doesn't matter much.

Frankly 'in terms of perspective' there are an infinite number of things we must also bring up in this thread.

 

[redwood66]

These are all very interesting comments.

DH and I have decided to make the statement that "money isn't everything" and are changing our lifestyle to fit that narrative this summer. We live comfortably and are happy but our schedules are so opposite that I only see him 3 full days a month. To us this is unacceptable only in order to have more $. I will be quitting my current job but am too young to collect the retirement I have earned. I do have a retirement that I collect from my previous career and that will pay all our bills. But in order to get to this point I have worked hard to pay off everything except our mortgage. I do feel that we are doing well but not wealthy in $$$. Others might consider us wealthy though. Someone earlier said if you don't have to think about how much something costs then you are wealthy. I consider every purchase and weigh the pros and cons first. Sure I won't be able to buy much jewelry or other unneeded purchases in the future, but the ability to spend all of DH's days off together far outweighs any bauble.

We paid just over $16K for two horses last summer and this would be crazy to many but I sold almost all of my jewelry to do it. DH and I ride together and we enjoy it immensely. I do have a 2 ct. diamond but this was a good purchase and it is an old cut in an L color so much less $ than a newer cut high color diamond. Again I worked to pay for it and sold some unused things to buy it. What someone spends their money on and its value is all a matter of perspective and what someone's priorities are, and that can change too. I never thought in a million years that I would pay this much for a diamond but I did and it is my 25th anniversary gift that I love. Our house is far from fancy but it is fine for what we need and most of the work we do ourselves. The cost of living in our area is lower than big cities and we have a ton of free access to outdoor activities in our state and federal parks.

You can't judge someone's wealth by the jewelry or clothes they wear. They may be under so much debt that they have no $$$ left at the end of the month living paycheck to paycheck. To me that is not wealthy at all.

 

[kenny]

Of course wealth is relative and, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

Today I'm glad that my family experienced extremes of wealth.
Before age 10 we were very well off.
After that, very poor.
IMO experiencing both helps me put $$$ into healthy perspective.

Still, we always had food and some kind of a roof over our heads, so it could have been worse.

 

[momhappy]

Then, 'in terms of perspective', we must also bring up temperature because when you are too hot or cold your wealth doesn't matter much.

Sheesh.
I didn't even bring up the topic of health in this thread. I only responded to those who shared some personal stories about health and I didn't have an issue that it veered off topic a little bit. I wasn't saying that it was all about perspective - I was responding to a particular post about health.

 

[december-fire]

"...I think that you are wealthy if you do not have to think of what you are buying, how much you are spending, own multiple properties possibly and/or luxury cars and/or expensive gems and jewelry and you still do not have to calculate and think about your spendings. Even then wealth is something you can very quickly lose at any time during your life. If you have to think and calculate then you are not wealthy but perhaps well off or comfortable..."

Not to start an argument, and I see your point, but I cringe at the thought of someone not thinking about their expenditures.

One unrelated comment:

Some people see fancy cars, jewellery, homes, etc. and think 'Wow, those people have money!'

But those items reflect how much money has been spent (or borrowed), not how much money the person 'has'.

The 'wow they're rich' is based on an assumption that the people are living within their means.
Not always the case, unfortunately.

 

[chrono]

I know some very wealthy families where the wife doesn't even have a diamond so I think it is incorrect to presume or assume that someone wearing a 2 ct diamond ring must be wealthy.

 

[Niel]

I know some very wealthy families where the wife doesn't even have a diamond so I think it is incorrect to presume or assume that someone wearing a 2 ct diamond ring must be wealthy.

I'm not sure juat because one statement is true the converse is also true. Like with anything, not having one doesn't mean you couldn't afford it, but buying means you could.

 

[lulu]

Okay, according to these two articles DH and I are wealthy. We're 62 and 71 and we worked hard all of our lives. We own two nice homes free and clear. Our kids are doing great too. I have a two carat diamond. We're able to give a lot of money to charity.

That being said, I just want to say something about all that- I am not happier than I was when we were young and struggling. Actually, I never felt we were struggling-we were just living within our means. We always had enough to have a decent house and enough food. We could always afford health care for us and the kids and the critters. We always gave 10% off the top to charity and we had our health. Add in great family and friends and it really doesn't get any better. If you have all that you will not be happier with a million bucks in the bank.

Frankly, I never wear the two carat diamond anymore.I regret buying it and I would sell it but I wouldn't get my money out of it. And I sure don't feel wealthy money wise. I do feel blessed.

 

[boerumbiddy]

Late to this party. I am not wealthy but I have low expenses( $500 a month in housing expenses,a miracle) and so feel free to buy myself a little jewelry. My pension and other income put me exactly at the median income for my city and I am single.

 

[boerumbiddy]

Late to this party. I am not wealthy but I have low expenses( $500 a month in housing expenses,a miracle) and so feel free to buy myself a little jewelry. My pension and other income put me exactly at the median income for my city and I am single.

 

[PintoBean]

According to the calculator we are upper middle class, but for where we live, I joke that we are part of the disappearing middle class.

As long as DH and I stay relatively healthy, we will be able to stay on track with saving money and BeCOMINg truly middle to upper middle class. However, it feels like we are on shaky ground right now. It seems like our insurance through our employers cover less each year and cost more out of pocket. i have heard of people losing their homes due to long term illness. As the years go by, and annuals turn up more health issues, albeit manageable ones, this health impacting wealth issue weighs on me more and more.

With salary increases far from reflecting CoLA, that is another concern of mine...
We don't have kids, which is a big cost savings. We are seeing a trend where my DH's colleagues move out of NY once they have a kid or two. The company is so hard up for "resources" that it lets these employees continue working remotely, despite having a strict clock watching management that wants everyone onsite They are moving to states where their property taxes will reduce significantly by $10,000+.

We live not too far from where our parents raised us, but the opportunities for growth are far from what was available to our parents. We recently upgraded from an apartment to a house. The purchase price is less than 3x our combined income. My parents wanted us to go bigger, but this is what we are comfortable with. We can afford the mortgage (worse case scenario) on one salary. We really considered leaving NY, but there was a lot of family pressure to stay close, especially with my being an only child with parents in their mid 60s. I did tell them that if one or both of us lose our jobs and the best job is out of state, we will relocate.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I must be wealthy since I am sporting a 2ct ring.. , NOT!..

 

[kenny]

I must be wealthy since I am sporting a 2ct ring.. , NOT!..

OH Puhleeez Go-Friend!!! IIII'm the one who's poor ... with my microscopic diamond chip!

I'd better vote for Trump so I can become rich like you and buy an Octavia I can actually see!

 

[dk168]

I must be wealthy since I am sporting a 2ct ring.. , NOT!..

If my memory serves me right, although may not be wealthy, however, must be at least "comfortable", being a para-medical professional.

DK

 

[dk168]

Re: 2ct diamond = wealthy; not necessarily so.

Looking at a 2ct+ EC prices, I could have bought one with the amount I paid to my creditors in the four years when I was on a debt management plan!

I have learnt my lesson about money the hard way, and am not going to get any large ticket items unless I can afford to do so, and no more credit cards!

DK

 

[arkieb1]

As I pointed out before the issue is how the OP defines "wealth" add to that the fact each one of us depending upon our own life circumstances measures wealth differently to the next person, and there is no one correct answer. To a homeless person, for example, almost every member on this forum would be wealthy, to a Beverly Hills Housewife most of the people on here would not be. It really depends upon what standard you measure "wealth" by, and the truth is we all measure "wealth" by our own standards, and by other people we know who are more or less "wealthy" than ourselves;

 

[missy]

Wow some of you are really taking this so personally. The topic of health came up because we were discussing wealth and the issue of what dictates true wealth started being discussed and hence health became a topic. A natural progression of the discussion.
For some good health is true wealth so for those of you who took offense relax OK? Nobody was trying to offend you. And as momhappy said some of you seem angry and obviously a nerve was touched.

I stand by the fact (for me and my family) that good health means you are wealthy beyond monetary means. And to answer Karen's question good health means everything not because everyone is going to die. Sure that's a fact. But while we are here what type of quality of life does one have and that relates back to good health. If you have a chronic illness and are in pain and discomfort much/all of the time and have no energy to enjoy life's activities all the money in the world isn't going to bring you happiness and peace. So yeah if I had to choose in order of importance this is how my list would look. Good health #1. Everything else a distant second place. My list only. Not trying to piss anyone off so don't take it personally.

And sure money makes things easier. If you are in poor health and also poor monetarily and cannot afford basic things you are in truly bad shape. No arguments here.

Discussing wealth in simply monetary terms is an artificial compartmentalization but to answer your question again it depends on where you live and what your costs of living are IMO. If we lived in the middle of Mississippi I would say yes we are wealthy but living where we do we are comfortable not rich.
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/06/24/americas-cheapest-states-to-live-in-2015.html?slide=11

 

[dk168]

I concur that good health is more important than wealth.

Don't compare, and be grateful and content with one's lot, is what my parents taught me.

However, I would not say no to winning the lottery!

Just because one appears wealthy on the outside, does not mean he/she is happy on the inside.

I was embarrassed about talking about money in the past, as I was on a good salary, yet very irresponsible with money and not much sense. Hence I amassed a sizeable debt.

At one stage the interests on my credit cards were more than what I could afford to spare each month, and decided something has to be done about it back in 2010.

Now I have no debt except the mortgage, and it is a nice feeling.

I still dislike talking about money, especially in the company of people I do not know well.

DK

 

[december-fire]

dk168,

Congratulations on learning some very important lessons, and doing the hard work necessary to take responsibility for your actions and create a stable financial situation for yourself!

Be proud of your achievements!

 

[yssie]

dk168,

Congratulations on learning some very important lessons, and doing the hard work necessary to take responsibility for your actions and create a stable financial situation for yourself!

Be proud of your achievements!

Ditto that!! And thank you for trusting us enough to share your story

 

[stracci2000]

Wow some of you are really taking this so personally. The topic of health came up because we were discussing wealth and the issue of what dictates true wealth started being discussed and hence health became a topic. A natural progression of the discussion.
For some good health is true wealth so for those of you who took offense relax OK? Nobody was trying to offend you. And as momhappy said some of you seem angry and obviously a nerve was touched.

I stand by the fact (for me and my family) that good health means you are wealthy beyond monetary means. And to answer Karen's question good health means everything not because everyone is going to die. Sure that's a fact. But while we are here what type of quality of life does one have and that relates back to good health. If you have a chronic illness and are in pain and discomfort much/all of the time and have no energy to enjoy life's activities all the money in the world isn't going to bring you happiness and peace. So yeah if I had to choose in order of importance this is how my list would look. Good health #1. Everything else a distant second place. My list only. Not trying to piss anyone off so don't take it personally.

And sure money makes things easier. If you are in poor health and also poor monetarily and cannot afford basic things you are in truly bad shape. No arguments here.

Discussing wealth in simply monetary terms is an artificial compartmentalization but to answer your question again it depends on where you live and what your costs of living are IMO. If we lived in the middle of Mississippi I would say yes we are wealthy but living where we do we are comfortable not rich.
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/06/24/americas-cheapest-states-to-live-in-2015.html?slide=11

Missy,
First, let me say that I think you are one of the most genuine, honest posters on PS, and I love your posts. Truly. I have been meaning to tell you that.

I was raised in a steel town in PA where nobody had much money.
So perhaps my opinion is colored from that. And like Kenny, I never got a penny from my family.
I have a great job that I love. The pay isn't all that, but I pay the bills, and have a decent savings. Also. I am debt free.
So I guess I can say I am wealthy, too, in that respect.
I even have money for occasional bling, as long as it is within my budget.

So forgive me for being harsh.
As a sidenote, my sister and BIL just bought a 1950's three bedroom brick ranch-style home in PA for $37K cash. (BIL's inheritance money)
So there's a cheap town to live in!

 

[missy]

Thank you very much Stracci. I appreciate that and I get what you're saying. And I agree. Where we come from colors our perception of everything.
And congratulations to your sister and BIL! PA has inexpensive property taxes too.

Just want to add this interesting article. Not sure if anyone has posted it here.
http://money.cnn.com/2014/06/05/news/economy/how-much-income-to-be-happy/

 

[momhappy]

Wow some of you are really taking this so personally. The topic of health came up because we were discussing wealth and the issue of what dictates true wealth started being discussed and hence health became a topic. A natural progression of the discussion.
For some good health is true wealth so for those of you who took offense relax OK? Nobody was trying to offend you. And as momhappy said some of you seem angry and obviously a nerve was touched.

I stand by the fact (for me and my family) that good health means you are wealthy beyond monetary means. And to answer Karen's question good health means everything not because everyone is going to die. Sure that's a fact. But while we are here what type of quality of life does one have and that relates back to good health. If you have a chronic illness and are in pain and discomfort much/all of the time and have no energy to enjoy life's activities all the money in the world isn't going to bring you happiness and peace. So yeah if I had to choose in order of importance this is how my list would look. Good health #1. Everything else a distant second place. My list only. Not trying to piss anyone off so don't take it personally.

And sure money makes things easier. If you are in poor health and also poor monetarily and cannot afford basic things you are in truly bad shape. No arguments here.

Discussing wealth in simply monetary terms is an artificial compartmentalization but to answer your question again it depends on where you live and what your costs of living are IMO. If we lived in the middle of Mississippi I would say yes we are wealthy but living where we do we are comfortable not rich.
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/06/24/americas-cheapest-states-to-live-in-2015.html?slide=11

Well said, missy

 

[purplesparklies]

This thread has been very interesting to read. Having been a member here for awhile and much more of a reader of posts than one who posts, I have learned quite a bit from the posts made by the members here. Little details shared over time give insight as to the lives enjoyed by many here. What is fascinating to me is the obvious reluctance to be labeled as wealthy. Is it a bad thing? I don't think so. It is not a statement of character, it is simply a statement of monetary resources. From what I have read here, many more are wealthy than are willing to admit to it.

We all know that without your health and family, nothing else matters. However, there are plenty of poor or middle class people who don't have their health or family. I'm sure those people would still prefer to be unhealthy and without family but have the comfort and stability gained thru money.

There is no single indicator of wealth. Plenty of people mindlessly blow what resources they have on things that they shouldn't and end up with nothing to show for it. Perhaps they could have saved and worked to a position of wealth but didn't. I know many who live well above their means via credit. They dress in designer clothes and have fancy baubles but they live paycheck to paycheck. Their fancy baubles do not make them wealthy.

There are assets that are an indicator of wealth. If you own a home other than the one you reside in full time, that is very likely an indicator of wealth. That is a huge asset. I don't know of a single poor person who owns an extra house. If you are fortunate enough to pay for someone to take care of your property, cleaning your house or taking care of your landscaping, you are very likely to be wealthy. When one can pay for all those extras that make life pleasant and fun, you are significantly much more wealthy than the countless people struggling to keep a roof over their head and food on their table. That is just reality.

I volunteer at a food pantry regularly. I leave there knowing without any doubt that I am wealthy. I do not have a big diamond the likes of which we see here regularly. We "own" one home, or at least we will when we get it paid off in 20+ years, but it is comfortable and more than we need. We are fortunate to live in a low cost of living area so our single income provides for us comfortably. Our sons attend private school but it is pretty inexpensive ($3000-ish) here. They do not have fully funded college funds but we have saved a little for them. I think we have $22,000 total set aside for education. We have two sons and our oldest will be a high school freshman next year so that amount is not even close to what it should be. We expect them to have some "skin in the game" and work for their own success and would we require that regardless of our ability or inability to fully fund their higher education endeavors. We "own" one vehicle but will be paying for that for another 3 years, I believe. My husband drives a company car. We don't take expensive vacations. We drive to see family and stay in their homes and that is our typical vacation.

Most here would not consider me to be wealthy but most of the general population of the world would definitely consider me to be wealthy. I spend a considerable amount of time seeing how those who are less fortunate struggle every day. I have some savings, less than is recommended but I have some. I don't live paycheck to paycheck. I know I am wealthy. I am happy to get to live with that label. I am so thankful to have the resources to enjoy the blessings of stability and comfort. Too many will never get to just relax, exhale, and know that everything really will be okay.

 

[nala]

I can't complain. That's good enough for me. It would be fun to start a new thread asking people to define what constitutes wealth but without having posters admit to their own net worth. That would be interesting. At what point does one feel wealthy? Which indicators matter the most:
Annual vacations? Free time? How many months emergency fund? Debt ratio? Hobbies? Etc. Or maybe that's why the answers are so different here. Everyone has a different definition and different priorities of how to spend their money.

 

[ksinger]

This thread has been very interesting to read. Having been a member here for awhile and much more of a reader of posts than one who posts, I have learned quite a bit from the posts made by the members here. Little details shared over time give insight as to the lives enjoyed by many here. What is fascinating to me is the obvious reluctance to be labeled as wealthy. Is it a bad thing? I don't think so. It is not a statement of character, it is simply a statement of monetary resources. From what I have read here, many more are wealthy than are willing to admit to it.

We all know that without your health and family, nothing else matters. However, there are plenty of poor or middle class people who don't have their health or family. I'm sure those people would still prefer to be unhealthy and without family but have the comfort and stability gained thru money.

There is no single indicator of wealth. Plenty of people mindlessly blow what resources they have on things that they shouldn't and end up with nothing to show for it. Perhaps they could have saved and worked to a position of wealth but didn't. I know many who live well above their means via credit. They dress in designer clothes and have fancy baubles but they live paycheck to paycheck. Their fancy baubles do not make them wealthy.

There are assets that are an indicator of wealth. If you own a home other than the one you reside in full time, that is very likely an indicator of wealth. That is a huge asset. I don't know of a single poor person who owns an extra house. If you are fortunate enough to pay for someone to take care of your property, cleaning your house or taking care of your landscaping, you are very likely to be wealthy. When one can pay for all those extras that make life pleasant and fun, you are significantly much more wealthy than the countless people struggling to keep a roof over their head and food on their table. That is just reality.

I volunteer at a food pantry regularly. I leave there knowing without any doubt that I am wealthy. I do not have a big diamond the likes of which we see here regularly. We "own" one home, or at least we will when we get it paid off in 20+ years, but it is comfortable and more than we need. We are fortunate to live in a low cost of living area so our single income provides for us comfortably. Our sons attend private school but it is pretty inexpensive ($3000-ish) here. They do not have fully funded college funds but we have saved a little for them. I think we have $22,000 total set aside for education. We have two sons and our oldest will be a high school freshman next year so that amount is not even close to what it should be. We expect them to have some "skin in the game" and work for their own success and would we require that regardless of our ability or inability to fully fund their higher education endeavors. We "own" one vehicle but will be paying for that for another 3 years, I believe. My husband drives a company car. We don't take expensive vacations. We drive to see family and stay in their homes and that is our typical vacation.

Most here would not consider me to be wealthy but most of the general population of the world would definitely consider me to be wealthy. I spend a considerable amount of time seeing how those who are less fortunate struggle every day. I have some savings, less than is recommended but I have some. I don't live paycheck to paycheck. I know I am wealthy. I am happy to get to live with that label. I am so thankful to have the resources to enjoy the blessings of stability and comfort. Too many will never get to just relax, exhale, and know that everything really will be okay.

Thank you purplesparklies for articulating what I was trying to get at, so much better than I did.

Missy, I asked no question, I responded to Packrat’s “the point of it is, if you don't have your health, what do you have, really” with an elaborated-upon no, that isn’t the point, because as I said, health “has no bearing on whether one has the means to pay for stuff.” I read this thread as more of a “if you can pay for bling, are you wealthy?”. (I would put that into purplesparklies' category of "probably an indicator of wealth", along with the vacation home and the housekeeper, etc).

Basically, everyone here could do as I did, and do a quick check of their net worth (which takes into account more than just current income) right now from the US Census link I posted, and know how they fall in relation the rest of the US population. But I’ve gotten the gist that that’s too narrow or cold a measure for most. Still, as is usual with me these days, I try (not always successfully, but I do try) to take my feelings out of it and answer the question more empirically than surmise or feeling.

That is why I originally answered by saying where the numbers say I am in relation the the rest of the US, without any how-I-feel-about-it or quality-of-life modifiers. By that most basic measure of net worth, I fall into having more than the vast majority of people in the US who are like me in age group. I would not have thought so, but the numbers are pretty clear. So, by a numbers-based and thus less subjective measure, I can be considered wealthy. If being in the top 20% of one of the wealthiest countries on earth, is not wealthy, then the word loses much real meaning. How I FEEL about how far up the chain I am, is irrelevant, although it can be very revealing as to attitude and underlying philosophy. Like purplesparklies, I'm fascinated at the resistance to acknowledging the simple fact of being a "have". Perhaps because without believing strongly that your success in life is strictly by your own efforts, you have to admit to the fortunate/luck part of success, and that can be a mite uncomfortable if you follow it where it inevitably leads.

 

[missy]

Karen, I just looked at your link. We are in the fifth quintile. I am not uncomfortable saying that.

I believe our success in life has everything to do with how hard we both worked (my dh and I) to get to where we are in life. Did some of our success have to do with luck? I believe we make our own luck in general but I am not crazy and know how fortunate we have been. Both of us had career setbacks and my dh changed careers during the 2008 recession out of necessity. We made it work.

We do the best we can and work hard at all our endeavors. I am grateful for our success and know at any moment things could and often do change. So much is beyond our control and a large part of that has to do with health and that is why I brought up health during this conversation.

We give a good percentage of our earnings to charities that are near and dear to us and I know we lead good lives. Yes we both enjoy our hobbies and the fruits of our labor. Nothing wrong with that. The pursuit of happiness and all that jazz and a large part of that for us is giving back. I am grateful we have the opportunity to do so because that is what makes me truly happy.

So I am sorry I gave you the wrong impression but no I am not afraid to say where we are in life. And I am grateful.

momhappy, thanks.

 

[packrat]

I was responding to stracci's comment above mine, who was responding to someone else's comment and didn't quote it. Someone mentioned health problems and their perspectives after making it thru, and stracci said people were delusional, the question had to do w/wealth, not health. Some people do equate the two together, and I don't see why that should be a big deal.

 

[baby monster]

It's interesting that so many posters equate not being poor with being wealthy. Having grown up truly poor, as in not having electricity for months, living with a bucket for outhouse and a bucket for getting well water, growing own food, sewing own clothes, etc, I see a vast space between having food on the table and being wealthy. It's called middle class so one can do ok financially and still consider themselves not wealthy.