The Disfigured Wife McCain Abandoned

[movie zombie]

Date: 6/18/2008 6:15:47 AM
Author: AGB
Somehow this wasn''t about cheating to me. I know it was to many of you; many of you immediately responded to the postings about the topic by discussing ''cheating'', marital fidelity. Marital fidelity is a very personal issue in a marriage and does not always make or break a marriage. It was not what upset me about Mr. McCain. What upset me was that he came home to someone who was disabled, who needed him to raise their children, and deserted her. Moreover, he carried on publicly prior to that point, causing comment among all his friends and associates. Had he been discreet and stood by her, I would not be carrying on about any affair he had. I do have an issue with desertion, however. Think about Dana Reeve standing by Christopher. She didn''t say that this was her only chance at life (although she was to die of cancer soon after Christopher died). She stood by the man she had married and the father of her child even after his body was no longer perfect. If she had an affair with anyone else, it was discreet.


Deborah

ditto on all of it.

movie ozmbie

 

[movie zombie]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/20/vicki-iseman-who-is-mcca_n_87692.html

who is vicki? well, she certainly looks like the women he''s been known to be attracted to.

and even if there wasn''t an affair, he was doing special favors for a lobbyist.

movie zombie

 

[MoonWater]

Yup. Knew about her too MZ. Ridic.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 6/18/2008 3:11:10 AM
Author: Selkie

Date: 6/18/2008 12:35:55 AM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I will say that I will have a big problem voting for any man who has cheated on his wife. Like Diamondfan, however, I'm not sure I'd want to be judged by all the decisions I made 30 years ago either. I am a different person in many ways than I was then (although I certainly have never cheated on my spouse!). So I am willing to not come to a final judgment on him just yet. If we learn that he has also cheated in the current marriage, then I more than likely could not vote for him. Character means a lot to me regardless of the party. And there is no greater commitment than there is to a marriage and children.


I can guarantee the democrats are just saving this to get McCain closer to the election. I have predicted that Obama will win (unless something bad comes out about him) due to the very fact that some evangelicals will NOT be able to vote for McCain due to character issues.

DS, I don't think anyone is saving this up to 'get' him. I think a lot of people who pay attention to politics have heard about it already. I've heard about it in numerous forums at this point, and it's not really a secret. The fact that he's admitted to it takes away a lot of the power it has as a 'shocking revelation.' At the very least, it's based in fact, unlike the majority of the smear campaign that his own party launched against him in 2000, playing on racism and bigotry.

Selkie, this is politics. Both sides want to "get" the other with some dirt if they can!!! That's the game! Up until now, Obama was running against Hillary. Now they can concentrate on running against McCain. Certainly strategy for both sides is to diminish the character of the other in people's minds.

 

[Selkie]

Date: 6/18/2008 11:10:22 AM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Selkie, this is politics. Both sides want to ''get'' the other with some dirt if they can!!! That''s the game! Up until now, Obama was running against Hillary. Now they can concentrate on running against McCain. Certainly strategy for both sides is to diminish the character of the other in people''s minds.

Oh, I''m well aware of that, it''s what I hate most about presidential campaigns. But this story in particular strikes me as old news, not something along the lines of the "Obama eats babies!" "McCain loves kangaroos!" type hysteria that will undoubtedly hit us over the next several months.

And don''t you think this is the kind of issue people SHOULD be aware of with regard to someone''s character?

 

[diamondfan]

AGBF, that all goes to character. And I totally get your point, but should he have stayed even if he no longer loved her? What if he had come home and tried to make it work but they were both so changed by their ordeals that it was not possible? Again, I am not defending it, just saying you never know the conversations they had or how she and he had both changed. I doubt his intent upon being released was to leave her. I am sure the plan was to pick up where they left off, to the best of their abilities. They both had changed and been through so much, they were both impacted negatively for the rest of their lives. And if it was really about her looks and his shallowness and nothing else, then of course he is a prize winning jerk no matter what. I do think it was good that he at least was financially responsible to her, you cannot imagine how many men who have the money do NOT part with it, even when they clearly should. I just think it is so easy for us, nearly 30 year later, to judge. And I am not saying he might be among the most low and awful men for what he did, just that things are not always as simple as they seem.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 6/18/2008 12:38:52 PM

Author: diamondfan

AGBF, that all goes to character. And I totally get your point, but should he have stayed even if he no longer loved her?

I know this is going to sound hopelessly out of date but given her circumstances...hell, yes! Marriage is supposed to be through sickness and health, through good times and bad. You're not supposed to walk out when your spouse has an accident and it doesn't look like fun to take care of the kids on your own. I mean, if you walk out as soon as someone else looks cuter or things look better elsewhere, what the hell is marriage?

At least don't tell me it's sacred.

Obviously, my friend, I am NOT talking to YOU. I know that marriage means a lot to you personally. I have also been through the wars. Through thick and thin, I've managed to stay married for over 31 years.

Deb

 

[FrekeChild]

No one should stay with someone they don't want to be with (IMHO), but the question here is why he didn't want to be with her anymore-was it because he didn't love her anymore or because her beauty was gone?
We can only speculate on the real why he didn't want to be with her anymore. The only person who knows, is him. I doubt Carol even really knows. Maybe his divorce attorney. Maybe Cindy does. But to all of the people close to him at the time, they made the general assumption that it was because of Cindy. Because of that, we are pretty much led to assume that he is shallow and vile for leaving a wife who stood by him through everything, raised his children, etc. because those who were close to him have given us that impression.

Unfortunately all presidential candidates are judged on what they've done their whole lives. It doesn't really matter how long ago it was-he did it and the public knows about it. The writing is on the wall, so to speak. I know, looking back on my life, that if I ran for President that I'd have to own up to some of the things I've done that might not sit as being moral or what have you-I don't even have 30 years to go back on. The time doesn't matter really- a lapse in judgment is a lapse in judgment.

What I wouldn't give to see the divorce paperwork, though.

So I think what it boils down to is that the public knows of this situation, they are given the side that he cheated on and deserted his disabled wife for a new hot blond thing, and now it's up the the public to be judge and jury on whether he should be president.

Personally, because we don't know the motivation behind why he got divorced, even the speculation, that "maybe" that he did it for the reasons its assumed (and that seems to have red arrows pointing at it), is despicable to me. I do not think he should use his morals and family values as any kind of campaign platform because of this situation.

As always, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, of course, and thats mine.

I still cannot believe that he is the best the Republicans have to offer at the moment. I really don't think he is, I guess he just came off as being the most electable? I don't get it.

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 6/18/2008 12:54:37 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 6/18/2008 12:38:52 PM

Author: diamondfan
AGBF, that all goes to character. And I totally get your point, but should he have stayed even if he no longer loved her?

I know this is going to sound hopelessly out of date but given her circumstances...hell, yes! Marriage is supposed to be through sickness and health, through good times and bad. You''re not supposed to walk out when your spouse has an accident and it doesn''t look like fun to take care of the kids on your own. I mean, if you walk out as soon as someone else looks cuter or things look better elsewhere, what the hell is marriage?

At least don''t tell me it''s sacred.

Obviously, my friend, I am NOT talking to YOU. I know that marriage means a lot to you personally. I have also been through the wars. Through thick and thin, I''ve managed to stay married for over 31 years.

Deb

So what this boils down to is that he doesn''t take his marriage vows seriously? If that''s the case, why should we take anything he says seriously? If he can''t keep his vows to take a person in sickness and in health, good times and in bad...

Just thinking *out loud* here.

Yeesh.

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 6/18/2008 1:26:52 PM
Author: FrekeChild

Date: 6/18/2008 12:54:37 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 6/18/2008 12:38:52 PM

Author: diamondfan
AGBF, that all goes to character. And I totally get your point, but should he have stayed even if he no longer loved her?

I know this is going to sound hopelessly out of date but given her circumstances...hell, yes! Marriage is supposed to be through sickness and health, through good times and bad. You''re not supposed to walk out when your spouse has an accident and it doesn''t look like fun to take care of the kids on your own. I mean, if you walk out as soon as someone else looks cuter or things look better elsewhere, what the hell is marriage?

At least don''t tell me it''s sacred.

Obviously, my friend, I am NOT talking to YOU. I know that marriage means a lot to you personally. I have also been through the wars. Through thick and thin, I''ve managed to stay married for over 31 years.

Deb

So what this boils down to is that he doesn''t take his marriage vows seriously? If that''s the case, why should we take anything he says seriously? If he can''t keep his vows to take a person in sickness and in health, good times and in bad...

Just thinking *out loud* here.

Yeesh.

It is certainly complicated. Using the reasoning above, then anyone who is divorced shouldn''t ever be elected.

 

[LAJennifer]

This also reminds me of something I heard Dr. Dean Edell once say - he said that men are not caregivers by nature, and that statistics show that 9 times out of 10 a husband will divorce his wife if she develops brain cancer. They are not biologically equipped to deal with it, so they take the easy way out. Of course there are exceptions and everyone has a choice - but he was talking about how unfortunate it really is - just how men and women are different.

 

[HollyS]

Date: 6/17/2008 9:09:09 PM
Author: surfgirl
It''s always interesting to me that people vilify Clinton for having an extramarital relationship yet it seems somehow less awful that someone like McCain does it too? I dont get that at all...

I don''t care about Clinton''s extramarital shenanigans. At all.

However, I do expect my president to at least do his ''business'' with those ladies somewhere other than the West Wing. Certainly not in the Oval Office, or ajacent to it.

And I expect all of us to acknowledge that past presidents have certainly had affairs. It used to be unseemly that the sexual urges of our leaders were traisped out for public consumption; it still should be. None of us needed the exact, purient details of everything Monica and Bill did. If he had just said "Yes, I did. So what?" instead of "I never. . ." maybe it wouldn''t have been as much fun for his enemies, the media, and pundits everywhere. I know I could have lived without the facts.

Oh, and the impeachment didn''t change a damn thing, did it? So, I guess in the end, there was no point to any of the ensuing circus other than our own salacious gratification.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 6/18/2008 1:46:26 PM

Author: LAJennifer

It is certainly complicated. Using the reasoning above, then anyone who is divorced shouldn''t ever be elected.

I am probably unelectable for the presidency based on about 85% of the criteria. It is nice to know that if divorce were the one criterion, I would be highly electable. My husband once said that he was among a small group of people at a business lunch and they realized that none of them had ever been divorced. They decided that they must be a truly rare group and that it was amazing that they had somehow come together!

Deborah

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 6/18/2008 12:38:52 PM
Author: diamondfan
should he have stayed even if he no longer loved her?

Huh? What? Are you *kidding* me? IIRC the vows don''t say "for as long as I love you" or "unless you become disfigured". Love is a *choice* ... not just a feeling. Its W-O-R-K. Which is why I don''t think this has ANYTHING to do with love. It has to do with MONEY and TROPHY. The kind of "love" that happens in good times only isn''t REAL love IMHO.

I think what he did is BIG TIME JERKY - for *whatever* reason he did it. Any completely hypocritical considering his so-called "traditional" values. People can do what they want to but ultimately they''ll be judged by their actions and I hope American voters do judge him ... harshly.

 

[MoonWater]

Ditto what deco said.

I personally think it's more than obvious what happened here. Oh, and the fact that he was willing to pay for Carol for life means absolutely nothing. If he hadn't he'd look a million times worse than he already does and it would have ruined his political career before it even started. Not to mention Carol, if forced to struggle, would be less inclined to be quiet while her crappy ex was running around with his new rich blonde.

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 6/18/2008 2:12:19 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 6/18/2008 1:46:26 PM

Author: LAJennifer

It is certainly complicated. Using the reasoning above, then anyone who is divorced shouldn''t ever be elected.

I am probably unelectable for the presidency based on about 85% of the criteria. It is nice to know that if divorce were the one criterion, I would be highly electable. My husband once said that he was among a small group of people at a business lunch and they realized that none of them had ever been divorced. They decided that they must be a truly rare group and that it was amazing that they had somehow come together!

Deborah

That, actually, is pretty amazing. So, Deb, tell us - what is your secret to a 31 year marriage?

 

[AGBF]

decodelighted and I seem to have taken a position that is revolutionary: the position that if a married person sees something tastier or "falls out of love" there might be an alternative to abandoning a spouse and children to marry someone new. In the olden days this was called decency. Everyone did it.

Deb

 

[AGBF]

Date: 6/18/2008 2:25:05 PM

Author: LAJennifer

That, actually, is pretty amazing. So, Deb, tell us - what is your secret to a 31 year marriage?

I wish I could give you a good answer, LAJennifer. I have not had the happiest marriage in the world, so I cannot impart the secrets to a truly happy marriage. On the other hand, my marriage does seem to last and last . My husband and I do, truly, care about each other. I couldn''t imagine walking out on him if he was in a crisis, nor do I think he would do that to me. I guess I feel that even if my husband cheated on me he would never treat me with the lack of love Mr. McCain showed for his first wife. I think he has a love for me, and I for him, that goes beyond the romantic. We would want the other to be well.


Deborah

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 6/18/2008 2:38:17 PM
Author: AGBF
decodelighted and I seem to have taken a position that is revolutionary: the position that if a married person sees something tastier or ''falls out of love'' there might be an alternative to abandoning a spouse and children to marry someone new. In the olden days this was called decency. Everyone did it.

Deb

How about revolutionarily traditional? (I so made up a word there.)

Personally I agree. Marriage is forever in my book. It is also forever in my parent''s book (and btw, my mom is dying from cancer, and I''ve never seen my dad step up to the plate and be so caring before).

Sociologically and psychologically I can understand why people get divorced, and that some people are better off in the long run (like my mom''s best friend whose ex-husband was awesome for 20+ years and then *changed* into a drug-doing, lying, stealing, beating on her mess). Most of those people go into it for the wrong reasons, grow apart or whatever, but in instances of "Oh look, that grass is greener! I''m gonna go over there!"-that is likely someone who should not have gotten married in the first place.

Honestly, I think that most people who do get divorced have that thought in their mind the whole time-"well if it doesn''t work out, I can always get a divorce"...

What is done is done, no changing it now.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 6/18/2008 11:32:43 AM
Author: Selkie

Date: 6/18/2008 11:10:22 AM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Selkie, this is politics. Both sides want to ''get'' the other with some dirt if they can!!! That''s the game! Up until now, Obama was running against Hillary. Now they can concentrate on running against McCain. Certainly strategy for both sides is to diminish the character of the other in people''s minds.

Oh, I''m well aware of that, it''s what I hate most about presidential campaigns. But this story in particular strikes me as old news, not something along the lines of the ''Obama eats babies!'' ''McCain loves kangaroos!'' type hysteria that will undoubtedly hit us over the next several months.

And don''t you think this is the kind of issue people SHOULD be aware of with regard to someone''s character?

Absolutely.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 6/18/2008 2:38:17 PM
Author: AGBF

decodelighted and I seem to have taken a position that is revolutionary: the position that if a married person sees something tastier or ''falls out of love'' there might be an alternative to abandoning a spouse and children to marry someone new. In the olden days this was called decency. Everyone did it.

Deb

I agree with that premise, but my reasoning is that I made vows before God and those mean something...for better or for worse, etc. Love is a choice and it certainly requires work at some point.

 

[HollyS]

Date: 6/18/2008 2:38:17 PM
Author: AGBF

decodelighted and I seem to have taken a position that is revolutionary: the position that if a married person sees something tastier or ''falls out of love'' there might be an alternative to abandoning a spouse and children to marry someone new. In the olden days this was called decency. Everyone did it.

Deb

Yup. Ditto to you and deco.

 

[diamondfan]

Hey guys!! For better or for worse means something to me. But doesn''t one also presume that the couple loves each other too? Weathering the bad and the tough times is certainly part of the fabric of life, but doing it with someone you love makes it work.

I am very much someone who takes MY vows seriously. Being married is not a picnic, it takes work and effort. Some days suck frankly. I have been married almost 18 years and have dealt with a lot of stuff. However, I would NOT want to stay with someone I felt no love or passion for, and would not likely want someone with me who did not love me. Love is NOT all it takes, for sure, and it is not always enough, but I have one life and want my marriage, whatever it brings, to have love in it. If he really did not love her anymore, I do not feel he should live out the rest of his life with her, especially after what he went through. I mean, should two people just stay together with no love? That can be a long tough time. To me, back in the day, few people divorced. They stayed together even without love, for a lot of reasons. And many marriages were not love matches anyway and people toughed things out. I am sure there was unhappiness. Now, do I feel "happiness" is a God given entitlement? Not always. But if he came home and having lived in toture for nearly 6 years he decided he was unhappy, I cannot really judge. It would have have been nice if they could work it out but it did not happen. Today divorce can seem to be taken lightly. "It is not FUN anymore" or "It is tougher than I thought". I certainly do not condone that. People take marriage a bit lightly sometimes, they have an out that is much easier and socially acceptable. But if anyone says they would want to stay in a loveless marriage for the rest of their lives, especially when having gone through a life changing experience, I would be surprised. If he walked in the door, said, Honey, thanks for taking care of everything while I was gone, but hey, you are shorter and fatter now so I am out of here...I would think him the you know what of the century. But somehow I just doubt that happened. He should not have been so blatant in his cheating. He should have left her with dignity. But I would never tell someone to stay in an unhappy marriage.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Diamondfan, I guess my main problem with it is that if he didn''t love her anymore and couldn''t stick it out, he should have asked for a divorce before he decided to start having affairs.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 6/18/2008 7:54:02 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
if he didn''t love her anymore and couldn''t stick it out, he should have asked for a divorce before he decided to start having affairs.

This is exactly what I was thinking.

 

[diamondfan]

DS, I agree. I have only stated that umpteen times. But we do not know what he did or did not do. Maybe he asked and she did not want to let go. You cannot make someone stay with you ultimately if they do not wish too. Or maybe he felt guilt and stayed and strayed out of unhappiness and then realized he needed to end it. NOT saying that then cheating is the right answer, but I am saying until you have walked in someone else's shoes or their marriage, some of this is just beyond our knowledge. And yes I think it is always best to leave and not subject your partner to hurt, but he did not and it was 30 years ago. He did not kill anyone, he made very poor decisions but he is not a criminal for that. And I am not saying I think he is the best man for President either. But divorce is not illegal and though one can end up spending their lives in a bad or unhappy marriage, which is their right, it is not mandated that someone stay. Bill Clinton cheated with women when he was Governor. Gary Hart did too. I mean, even Roosevelt supposedly did, and he was in a wheelchair. People are human, and deciding that he wanted happiness does not make him a monster even if he did not handle himself perfectly.

I am just amazed at some of the assumptions and also some of the holier than thou attitude out there in the press about a divorce. I do not think all marriages are fairy tales where two people go off skipping into the sunset. Tough things happen. But as I have said, if I am not in love and feel love for that person, I might as well be best pals and not in an intimate relationship. Trust me I am not always feeling the love with my husband. And I could bet you he would say the same about me. We fight, we have our disagreements. But in the end we love each other. That is makes it all worthwhile. We have survived things that would topple weaker couples, and we both say, as we have come through the other side tougher, that we love each other and that helps pull us through. I would not tell anyone to leave a marriage unless there was abuse, but I would also not tell someone to stay and be miserable. It is not my call to make.

 

[miraclesrule]

OMG, too funny....
If you click on the Huffington Post link and scroll to the bottom of the article, you can click on the news story "McCain C-word Moment Becomes Fodder for Satirists." But the funny part is that they post the new comedy YouTube video about it which portrays media discussing how they could use the event.

I didn't post the link, because I don't want to get in trouble with forum decorum...but honestly, the Huffington post blipped out all the vulgarities, which only makes it funnier in my opinion...

I love the end...

 

[Rank Amateur]

Why doesn''t someone do a thorough interview with the first Mrs McCain?

There is precious little actually from her that I could find on the web. Everything I could find was the same one or two quotes couched with the same "disfigured" "horrific" "callous" modifiers added in as a headline. He stayed with her 7 years after he came back and decided he wanted out. Maybe he was just a philandering jerk, maybe she was a bitch and unbearable to live with. Who knows?

One of the few quotes says that the first wife harbors no ill will. All you lefties who are still bitter about the 2000 election can''t say the same.

 

[miraclesrule]

Date: 6/18/2008 10:51:40 PM
Author: Rank Amateur
Why doesn''t someone do a thorough interview with the first Mrs McCain?

There is precious little actually from her that I could find on the web. Everything I could find was the same one or two quotes couched with the same ''disfigured'' ''horrific'' ''callous'' modifiers added in as a headline. He stayed with her 7 years after he came back and decided he wanted out. Maybe he was just a philandering jerk, maybe she was a bitch and unbearable to live with. Who knows?

One of the few quotes says that the first wife harbors no ill will. All you lefties who are still bitter about the 2000 election can''t say the same.

Why are you labeling people? What''s up with the Lefties comment? My daughter is left-handed and I find she is as intelligent as a right-handed person. ( Well, not as intelligent as her Momma, but I am sure that had something to do with the Daddy genepool) I am sure that is what you meant, isn''t it?

""I put my right hand in, I put my right hand out, I put my right hand in and I shake it all about"

You do the Hooky Pooky....

 

[MoonWater]