The Heidi Horten Collection

[LilAlex]

This can't be right?!? $62 - $87K estimate for a gorgeous 35 ct unheated Ceylon sapphire? It should go for at least 10 or 20X that. Is this just there to tease the riff-raff and wannabes?

And this is even more perplexing:

If I wanted a lecture on morality I would not be hanging out here. Same as if I were on a mainstream cooking forum, I would not expect to be lectured on the evils of my consumption habits.

...moral equivalency between food blogging and genocide.

 

[VividRed]

This can't be right?!? $62 - $87K estimate for a gorgeous 35 ct unheated Ceylon sapphire? It should go for at least 10 or 20X that. Is this just there to tease the riff-raff and wannabes?

And this is even more perplexing:



...moral equivalency between food blogging and genocide.

I agree, that sapphire price is suspiciously low. I would snap it in a heartbeat if I though I had a chance to pay less than 100k.

Same with the Sunrise ruby, its estimate is between 14-18m which is (sadly) not realistic. Only difference is that I would not be able to purchase it at this low price lol.

I am convinced it will sell for 40-50m

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

This can't be right?!? $62 - $87K estimate for a gorgeous 35 ct unheated Ceylon sapphire? It should go for at least 10 or 20X that. Is this just there to tease the riff-raff and wannabes?

And this is even more perplexing:



...moral equivalency between food blogging and genocide.

This is a jewelry forum on the COLOURED STONES forum.

But go head. Keep harping and virtual signalling.

 

[icy_jade]

 

[icy_jade]

virtual signalling

Thanks for introducing a new term to me. Lead me down a rabbit hole of reading about virtue signalling, grandstanding, narcissistic traits, etc.

Made me think as well… like if I go to the British Museum, instead of admiring the historical artefacts like I did the last time, should I protest about the theft of cultural relics from Greece, Egypt, China, etc.

Or if I go to the USA, do I accuse half the population of having slavery ties, or occupying Native American land. And racism, certainly racism as well.

And omg if I go to Japan, I should certainly accuse the Japanese people of war crimes that my close ancestors (like grandparents) suffered in WW2 instead of simply enjoying the food, pearls, and sightseeing.

It‘s endless isn’t it?

As for the auction, let‘s just ignore the fact that the proceeds from the auction will go to the Heidi Horten Foundation to fund medical research and other philanthropic activities as well as the maintenance of the museum of modern and contemporary art.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Well said @icy_jade

And spelled correctly unlike me

Now what I REALLY want to know is whether you're going to bid on something from all the bling you went to see!!!

 

[LilAlex]

If I wanted a lecture on morality I would not be hanging out here. Same as if I were on a mainstream cooking forum, I would not expect to be lectured on the evils of my consumption habits.

I gave you three chances to back away from this horrible false equivalency -- and all you can think of is how attacked you are?

It's great that the proceeds will benefit charity. It's great that LIV Golf supports the players, etc.

I expected "I know, I know, it's awful but..." (which is how most of us feel, I think) and instead I get "How dare you?" and "Morality, shmorality!" Just baffling responses, gotta say. Happy bidding! Over and out.

 

[icy_jade]

I expected "I know, I know, it's awful but..." (which is how most of us feel, I think)

Oh but that’s not what you sounded like at all. I actually feel gaslighted reading your response.

This is what you wrote earlier.

Have you asked yourself why people keep posting here about the Nazi origins of this famous fortune? I think you are a hemisphere away from the crime scene but it still resonates for much of the developed world. I hope it casts an appropriate pall over this sale but evidently it will make no difference in some quarters.

Clearly you felt the need to give us a morality lecture. Look, you can choose to focus on all sorts of awfulness in every aspect of life if you want. If you read her history, and I am sure you did, I certainly shudder at the thought of a teenager (19) marrying a 51 year old. So you know that she inherited the wealth from her ex husband when he died. What do you really expect her to do with the wealth that she inherited? Donate to charity? She has already done that.

If you really care about the Nazi links, did you know about Operation Paperclip? What are your views on using the data gathered from the inhumane medical experiments performed by the Nazis? Would you use the medical data if it can save a life? Would you use it if it would save your life? Just rhetorical. Am not really interested to get into this type of discussion here. There are all sorts of awful things the US government did if you really want to get all moralistic.

Seriously what really is your point in repeatedly bringing up the Nazi link when this thread is not in hangout? As if we don’t know about the links right. Or did you really think that. Omg we are not stupid ok.

This is a diamond and jewelry forum. I am sure that many, like me, come here to indulge in our affection for bling related matters. Call it a form of escapism from the drudgery of every day life if you will. So I wasn’t trying to impose any form of thought control on you when I first requested to focus on the bling and not the past. I just thought this forum of all places is not the right place to make a moralistic stance. I mean, the irony right. A group of (mostly) rich women discussing Nazi atrocities while discussing diamonds and gemstones. Oh of course we can, and from other discussions I know there are many intelligent women from various professions and many in senior corporate roles in this forum. But really, why, and why here?

 

[dk168]

Hey folks, chill out, as it is getting to the point that I may have to click the Report button!

DK

 

[Cinders]

I can't believe some of you were able to see & touch this jewelry in person! And combined with Magnificent Jewels---it had to have been a fun day.

As for the rest, I'd say it's pretty obvious that no one here is denying that the Holocaust was beyond words horrific. Admiring this jewelry does not make someone a Nazi sympathizer.

 

[Brigid]

@icy_jade what are your thoughts on the quality of her jade collection, was the necklace as beautiful as Barbara Hutton’s famous imperial jade necklace?

 

[icy_jade]

@icy_jade what are your thoughts on the quality of her jade collection, was the necklace as beautiful as Barbara Hutton’s famous imperial jade necklace?

I have not seen that famous necklace but… of the HH jadeites that I did see, I liked the 3 in the middle of this pic:


They had the glow that I love in jadeite. Not all jadeite have that optical quality. Without that optical quality, green jadeites are just green. They look a bit flat or lifeless compared to those jadeites that have the glow?

I can't believe some of you were able to see & touch this jewelry in person! And combined with Magnificent Jewels---it had to have been a fun day.

As for the rest, I'd say it's pretty obvious that no one here is denying that the Holocaust was beyond words horrific. Admiring this jewelry does not make someone a Nazi sympathizer.

It was certainly a memorable day! Very very glad I went down. If only I stay in Hong Kong or New York where they often have such auction previews!

As to what you said… can’t agree more. Like I absolutely condemn WW2 and my family suffered in the war like so many Singaporeans but it doesn’t mean I must hate all Japanese people and Japanese brands and boycott them right.

@dk168 I am usually quite chill. So back to blings. As mentioned, I come to Pricescope to indulge in my love for blings.

 

[shelovesinclusions]

Oh please share the pics here @icy_jade ???

This is a jewelry forum and not even Hangout at that.

If I wanted a lecture on morality I would not be hanging out here. Same as if I were on a mainstream cooking forum, I would not expect to be lectured on the evils of my consumption habits.

So please please please post the rest of the pics!!!!!

You gave me flashbacks of "to make this low fat/low sugar" comments on a cheesecake recipe I found online. Not gonna lie, I just wanted to make my dessert without guilt.

 

[icy_jade]

Now what I REALLY want to know is whether you're going to bid on something from all the bling you went to see!!!

Hahaha I’m not sure I can figure out how to. Still figuring out the online process. Anyway I got the catalogue to drool over




Looks like will arrive on Monday.

 

[icy_jade]

Watching the auction online. Anyone else?

 

[Avondale]

Watching the auction online. Anyone else?

Well now that you mentioned it...

 

[Avondale]

The Sunrise Ruby just sold for 11 million franks.

The original estimate was for 14-18 million. And we thought they were lowballing it...

sigh

 

[icy_jade]

The Sunrise Ruby just sold for 11 million franks.

The original estimate was for 14-18 million. And we thought they were lowballing it...

sigh

Yup. The spinel ring did sell for more tho. The sunrise is a total steal…



I don’t think the Christie’s people are happy today

 

[Avondale]

I don’t think the Christie’s people are happy today

Yeaaah... You could tell the auctioneer didn't like the look of things as the bidding was unfolding, it was obvious it was going slow and his face was just a little bit sour. How this ring did not generate more interest is beyond me. But then again, I noticed a lot of things sold below their estimation today. Maybe it's just how things are right now.

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

OK, that's it -- enough with the thought control. Have you asked yourself why people keep posting here about the Nazi origins of this famous fortune? I think you are a hemisphere away from the crime scene but it still resonates for much of the developed world. I hope it casts an appropriate pall over this sale but evidently it will make no difference in some quarters.

LilAlex, I'm with you, I can't get past it, I can't enjoy looking at this collection. Will stay off this thread.

 

[toomuchB]

LilAlex, I'm with you, I can't get past it, I can't enjoy looking at this collection. Will stay off this thread.

I was conflicted from the start, but I think this is where my feelings have settled as well

 

[voce]

Given the state of the economy, I never thought the Sunrise would sell for more than it did the last time. However, it's almost shockingly low contrary to expectations. Maybe the historical associations caused some wealthy Jewish buyers to refrain from bidding?

 

[RRfromR]

Given the state of the economy, I never thought the Sunrise would sell for more than it did the last time. However, it's almost shockingly low contrary to expectations. Maybe the historical associations caused some wealthy Jewish buyers to refrain from bidding?

I bet it's also the superstitious kind. I'm not Jewish but from a very superstitious country and the bad juju fear runs high.

 

[LilAlex]

Now here's a Christie's stone to bid on -- unheated AGL "Classic Kashmir" and 28.55 cts:

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,
Have many of you considered the low prices to be a result of the history that LilAlex speaks of.? I found his statement not offensive at all. The world is experiencing a resurgene of Nazi ideas. No one should be ashamed to say, "Let us Never Forget.

Enjoy the bling!

Annette

 

[VividRed]

Given the state of the economy, I never thought the Sunrise would sell for more than it did the last time. However, it's almost shockingly low contrary to expectations. Maybe the historical associations caused some wealthy Jewish buyers to refrain from bidding?

The state of the economy us not well correlated with how wealthy people/billionaires spend their money.

I think you hit the nail: I would attribute these low prices to the decision some people made to stay out of this auction due to its historical context. Which just means that whoever bought the sunrise ruby made the best purchase of their life

 

[Cinders]

Now here's a Christie's stone to bid on -- unheated AGL "Classic Kashmir" and 28.55 cts:

Ohmygoodness, this is STUNNING!! I love colored gemstone cabochons---they are just so luscious!

 

[LilAlex]

Now here's a Christie's stone to bid on -- unheated AGL "Classic Kashmir" and 28.55 cts:

It sold! For 50% over high asking. I hope a PSer got it! Anyone...?

 

[LilAlex]

So it looks like this just sold (auction ended). As predicted, it realized way more than the high estimate -- but still seems crazy-low at ~ $5500/ct.

Maybe it wasn't a "great" 35-ct untreated vivid medium blue sapphire

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

So it looks like this just sold (auction ended). As predicted, it realized way more than the high estimate -- but still seems crazy-low at ~ $5500/ct.

Maybe it wasn't a "great" 35-ct untreated vivid medium blue sapphire

I don’t know why it was low-ish at $5500/ct, but I have read that over a certain size (25 cts?) the price drops, because not as many people want stones that large. Anybody else have an idea?