The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompany.co

[Edward Bristol]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

Stars are really difficult to capture on photo. It takes years of practice and then only the few best come out well.

It is just totally galling if people fake them.

I had this potential customer lately complaining about my stars looking so bad compared to those the NSC had online. Well, well….

 

[chrono]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

I'm glad that Evan from NSC came here to explain what's going on as I suspected someone absolutely disgruntled with NSC beyond the usual unsatisfied customer. Still, it would be nice, once things settle down at NSC, to have somebody address the topic of photoshopping their pictures.

 

[T L]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

NSC is the strangest company. First they have a bunch of shills come on here (after some negative threads about them), then a representative who offers herself up to PS then disappears, a bunch more of disgruntled customers, a CEO that tells everyone off, and now this weird developer issue. Although I'm glad that Evan came on here to talk, I suspect no one from NSC will address the photoshop issues. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't believe NSC has conducted them in a very professional and responsible manner in this forum at all. Why is it that almost every one of these threads about NSC reminds me of a bad episode of the "Twilight Zone?"

 

[TravelingGal]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

NSC is the strangest company. First they have a bunch of shills come on here (after some negative threads about them), then a representative who offers herself up to PS then disappears, a bunch more of disgruntled customers, a CEO that tells everyone off, and now this weird developer issue. Although I'm glad that Evan came on here to talk, I suspect no one from NSC will address the photoshop issues. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't believe NSC has conducted them in a very professional and responsible manner in this forum at all. Why is it that almost every one of these threads about NSC reminds me of a bad episode of the "Twilight Zone?"[/quote]

I've been lurking on this thread, and this is EXACTLY what I've wanted to say several times. It's bizarro land.....

 

[Barrett]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

"There is a fifth dimension beyond that
which is known to Pricescopers. It is a dimension as vast as
space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle
ground between treatments and color, between fake photos and
real ones, and it lies between the pit of a pricecope buyers fears and the summit of his or her's buying knowledge. This is the
dimension of imagination. It is an area we call
The Twilight Zone."(Natural Sapphire Company)

Sorry, I couldn't resist after seeing TL's post

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

Amguy:

That is priceless! Should we add something about "do not try to adjust the display controls of your monitor, you are in the Twilight zone...

 

[Ella]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

Regarding NSC's request, as a general rule Pricescope does not remove threads where we are unable to substantiate wrongdoing from either party.

As a consumer site we feel it is important for consumers and businesses both to have the right to have their say. Users have shown us in the past that they are savvy consumers and are able to make their own decisions regarding the legitimacy of posts.

 

[AGBF]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

I'm with Edward Bristol.

Deb/AGBF


Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend

 

[Harriet]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

Stars are really difficult to capture on photo.

And some of them are even hard to see!

 

[FrekeChild]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

Regarding NSC's request, as a general rule Pricescope does not remove threads where we are unable to substantiate wrongdoing from either party.

As a consumer site we feel it is important for consumers and businesses both to have the right to have their say. Users have shown us in the past that they are savvy consumers and are able to make their own decisions regarding the legitimacy of posts.

THANK GOODNESS!!!!!!

 

[davidsmith_35]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

Evan CIO of The Natural Sapphire Company response ; I don’t understand what it has to do with this thread. He has not addressed the image manipulation issue and gone blaming there developers and some domain name dispute which is irrelevant. If you will observe the NSC’s star collection then you will find 3-4 typical asterism (star rays formation) in fact each of these 3-4 patterns are identical till the last pixel. also they are so perfectly formed.
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Star/
Anyone who has worked with Star sapphire photography knows that this is impossible . in each hsapphires rutiles are placed in its own unique space and resultant asterism will be unique
So does this mean all star sapphire images on NSC are made on Photoshop?? Its mind boggling

 

[Indylady]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

Is it possible to remove the NSC from the suggested vendor list?

 

[The_Natural_Sapphire_Company]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

I am sorry, but this is a bit ridiculous. I have already informed the people on this thread that DavidSmith is 1000% my ex developer. I have posted proof such as the fact that he is using a proxy IP to connect to here, stolen one of my domains that he then links to here, uses the same David or DavidSmith name on many of the posts he has out up all over the internet with different lies, sent us emails with the links he has created asking if we are ready to pay him yet, etc.

Basically, by continuing posting supporting his comments in this thread, you are supporting an extortioner, a thief, a hacker, and a criminal. He has actually been named a terrorist with the Consulate General of India, Commerce & Economic department in NY. You may contact them to ask any questions, as my lawyers will already be upset that I have already said too much. Getting a man arrested in another continent takes a ridiculous amount of time, and seems even longer as he uses his freedom to attack us more.

I have already informed everyone that I CANNOT and WILL NOT post more in this thread created and supported by my ex developer.

Now, if anyone has ACTUALLY purchased a star sapphire or pairs, or any other sapphires as our thousands and thousands of customers have already done and has an actual complaint that the image does not match what they have purchased, please open another thread and I will be more than happy to discuss it. If the PS user is a new account, then I will need a confirmation of who you are (it can be in a private message) before I publically discuss anything (so we can confirm that this is not another attack by the developer). If you have NOT purchased a stone from us, then we welcome you to. We have an excellent viewing period at no charge to you. Please do not start a witch hunt without seeing actual evidence first. We respect and admire the knowledge the community of PriceScope have. We ask in return that you respect me, my employees, and our over 70 years in the business.

 

[y2kitty]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

You probably should stop posting in this thread. Every time you post without answering our questions you just dig your own grave a little deeper.

 

[vintagelover229]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

You probably should stop posting in this thread. Every time you post without answering our questions you just dig your own grave a little deeper.

Ditto Herekittykitty. I don't really post in CS threads (but have seen the many NSC threads and I can't recall one that has been positive).

First, no one is arguing that what your ex worker is doing is wrong. But quite frankly it has nothing to do with the issues at hand (which in fact has many other of it's own threads made by people who haven't ever worked for you) but you've never posted a response in those threads (or if you did it was similar in nature to the tone on this post). Your tone that is coming out in your post seems very aggressive and not of someone who is cool, collected and in control. I'm sorry you seem to have a disgruntled employee on your hand (it's not uncommon which is why there are lawyers for this sort of thing). However I do find it VERY interesting that what your ex employee is posting supports many other PSers claims and suspicions of your photography and you've done nothing more than say I won't talk about the "claim" (which FYI it's not a claim...we can SEE the photos flipped to make it looks like a perfectly matched pair and the added stars to the sapphires) because the "claim" is by someone who no longer works for you, which I guess makes the points they bring up some how less "valid" in your book. However in MY book (you know, a potential CUSTOMER) it makes it MORE worry some. It means that people INSIDE know what is going on and yet they are either told, encouraged, brushed under the rug, or what ever you want to call it KNOW about the photo-shop issues (and that's just ONE issue being addressed) and yet do nothing about it and think it's OKAY! It is NOT okay (as you can easily see here with the way that many well respected color stone experts posts and the past threads on the NSC).

I am not saying I agree with what your ex employee did (if he did any of those claims that you are even making. Not saying one way or another just making a point that his claims here are invalid so I'm putting the boot on the other foot) but I do NOT think that the points he makes can be any less valid then someone who did buy from NSC because he's got inside information. Do I agree with the fact that he made up some excuse that someone from NSC emailed him? No. But if he wanted to protect his privacy (which didn't work very well because you figured it out anyways) then that's what they did.

 

[T L]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

I don't want to take sides with either NSC or the developer. I will just say that it's important to give accurate photos of what a true star looks like on a sapphire (or ruby) as the sharpness of the rays, and their uniformity, do add a great deal to the value of these stones. For example, broken, asymmetrical, incomplete, or non sharp rays, will have a impact on the value.

 

[Arcadian]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

OT but um...

As an American Database Architect and Developer, I can't help but say this;

You would do yourself, your American Company, and the US economy a favor and hire an American Firm to do the work. Then there's no need to play hopscotch. There are a lot out there that do your type of work every day of the week.

The whole developer thing, really, leave that out of the conversation because on pricescope its never been about that.

Back On topic...

This whole thread is really about the photoshopping issue, which once again, has come up about your stones.

But seriously for a CIO, your answer is sheer whackassness. Your IT problem is not the heart of the matter. As a CIO, you should know how to fix that. If you don't, thats a company that needs a new CIO! Yeah, I said it. So while its a damn shame on a lot of levels, the heart of the matter is the photoshopping. Please talk about it.

Ok so about those stars.... I have one, its hard as hell to photograph. I don't NEARLY get in photo what I see IRL. So based on evidence I've seen, yes, I'm pretty sure you guys are painting on stars. If I could get my star to look like that, I'd be queen of the world!

The photoshopping issue has been brought up time and time again in connection with your company, and for a 70 year old company, you guys either aren't understanding WHY people are upset about it or you don't care.

I'm going with 'dont care' considering you're not answering the real question.

Bottom line you guys use photoshop. You know it, we know it. But when were you going to inform the consumer about that? You guys don't address it, you gloss over it. Then you get mad and send a bunch of weird folk over here schilling.

Its something that shouldn't have to be "found out". If you're going to sell loose gemstones, at least be honest about the fact that the stone has had some help with a blurb on the web page.

-A

 

[davidsmith_35]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

Evan could you name this ex-employee. What is his name ? may be someone can contact him (I certainly will) and he will respond his side of the story.
Anyway your post rather then clarifying the core issue talks lot about you and your overall attitude towards criticism. Your response is on the edge of been malicious to derogatory and has nothing to do with the thread. I also checked naturalsapphirecompany.com ; may be you are in a domain name dispute but links posted on it are to some valid issues about your credibilty. They neither are personal nor has anything to do with any criminal intent. Its purly about e-consumerism
On other note : you must be crazy to call someone "terrorist" on this board. Its very very serious Such unsubstantiated charges may certainly land you up behind bars. I now doubt if this person posting is really a "CIO" or what is he?

 

[Barrett]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

Yea, time for this thread to be closed. Evan should be given the benefit of the doubt and all comments should be moved over to the LovingDiamonds thread in case "davidsmith" is as Evan says he is. It would be better if a regular PSer had started this post then their would be no doubt but as it stands for all we know this could be the disgruntled employee and I for one would not like to contribute anymore to anyone who would cause the kinds of problems NSC said they did. Sorry "Davidsmith" but I am sure you understand. I appreciate your posting about the superimposed stars and bringing that to light. I don't buy gemstones from company's or websites and the only reason I care is some of the custom cutters and dealers I am friends with or know could be having potential customers taken away by sheenanigans and photo manipulation when they spend countless hours cutting then photoing their stones ....as was the case when Edward Bristol at Wildfish Gems stated: " I had this potential customer lately complaining about my stars looking so bad compared to those the NSC had online. "

 

[davidsmith_35]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

I quickly picked up 3 sapphires from The natural Sapphire Company's star sapphire Collection
S369 S407 S501; and looks like sun is shining exactly (till the last pixel) same on all these sapphires
http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Star/

you can get many more such......absolutely unimaginable I call it Natural Sapphire Company Star Scam

Evan could you respond please..yes yes heard about your ex-employee/developer ...

 

[Indylady]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

 

[VapidLapid]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

You do not need to use bold type and sarcasm. They undermine your credibility. Present your evidence and make your argument, but leave it to the individual to reach their own conclusions.
As for the three identical stars you claim, I do not think one of them matches the two others. Also I would expect the angles of the legs to be consistent for sapphire crystals grow pretty consistently in nature, 6 sided, and rutile inclusions also orient themselves in the growing crystal at certain angles.

 

[Edward Bristol]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

VapiLapid,

Sorry, but this comment shows you have never seen, lest made many photos, of star gems.

Ed

 

[VapidLapid]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

Edward,
It is always surprising to see you post in threads like this, lest you present yourself as to be gloating publicly over a comeuppance meted out to one of your direct competitors. I would like to think that you did not intend to belittle or insult me with a glib unsupported comment. If you wanted to provide information about angles and asterism to correct a misperception, that would have been helpful. I expect that the angles of star legs is a function of the geometry of crystal faces and the orientation of rutile silk with them. That, however,does not account for the straightness or waviness of the legs, just the angles.


"One of the keys to recognizing exsolved inclusions is that they always form in a specific pattern within the host. That pattern may be different for different minerals crystallizing within the same host material (for example, rutile is exsolved in corundum in three directions crossing at 60/120° in the basal plane). Virtually all tiny, oriented needle, particle and platelike inclusions found in minerals are formed via exsolution. These inclusions give rise to asterism and cat's eye phenomena. Examples: rutile and hematite-ilmenite silk and needles in corundum.

One of the most diagnostic features of corundum is the white clouds of exsolved rutile (TiO2 ). According to Gübelin (1940, 1953), Gustav von Tschermak (187 was the first to identify rutile in corundum. Such clouds vary from dense concentrations which follow, and distort, the crystals' color zoning, to thinly-woven tapestries. At times, only slender threads or particles are visible, while in other cases knife or dart shapes appear (see Figure 21). Closer examination reveals many of these to be twin crystals with tiny v-shaped re-entrant angles visible at the broad end. They are flattened so thin in the basal plane that, when illuminated with a fiber-optic light guide from above, bursts of iridescent colors are seen, due to the interference of light from these microscopically-thin mineral lances.
inclusions, ruby, sapphire, Burma ruby, Kashmir sapphire, gemology, corundum

The needle clouds just described are termed silk, in analogy to their threadlike pattern and are responsible for the asterism, or star effect. Not only rutile may form silk in corundum; hematite (Fe2O3), ilmenite (FeTiO3) or hematite-ilmenite mixtures have been reported. Rutile in corundum tends to unmix parallel to the faces of the second-order hexagonal prism {1120}, intersecting in three directions at 60/120° in the basal plane (Sahama, 1982)."

http://www.ruby-sapphire.com/r-s-bk-ch5.htm

"Desirable inclusions:
Give rise to asterism (star stones): 'silk'-like texture due to fine rutile needles throughout the crystal. The light reflects from the fibers -> 6- pointed star.

NOTE: There are 3 special orientations in which rutile crystals occur. These are parallel to hexagonal faces and thus at 60 degrees. "

http://nature.berkeley.edu/classes/eps2//wisc/Lect8.html


"Formation of a star (streaks at 90° to the inclusions)

Asterism, like chatoyancy, is caused by reflection on inclusions. However, the inclusions are arranged in different directions causing several streaks of light on the surface of the en-cabochon stone. In general, the inclusions which cause the stars are orientated parallel to the crystal faces. There can be 4-pointed, 6-pointed and 12-pointed stars.

Diasterism is asterism caused by transmitted light (from behind the stone) and can be seen in some Rose Quartz and Almandine Garnet. Asterism due to reflected light is named epiasterism, an example being 12-pointed Corundum.

Garnet may produce 4-pointed stars that intersect at 90°, whilst in Diopside the 4-pointed stars intersect at 73°.

Corundum usually forms 6-pointed stars (mostly due to rutile or hematite needles). Emerald has been reported to show a 6-pointed star.

You may also find in Corundum (usually in Thai sapphire) a 12-pointed star due to rutile and hematite inclusions following both the 1st order and the 2nd order prism. This is an example of epiasterism (due to reflected light).

Synthetic corundum may also show asterism. Usually the stars are much better defined than their natural counterparts.

Some stones, especially corundum, have orientated inclusions but in insufficient quantities to show a star. These stones are generally facetted and occasionally you may see light reflected from small groups of such inclusions. This effect is termed ‘‘silk. "

http://www.gemologyproject.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sheen


"A smooth spherical or parabolic shape is desirable to allow the lens effect that causes the star to appear. Blemishes often seen in star stones are flat areas or uneven shaping that cause crooked legs in the star. These faults are easily seen by turning the stone under a point source of light, as the legs will seem to waver and shimmer. "

-Dick Davies

 

[soberguy]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

Vapid, I was thinking the EXACT same thing about the angles! Thanks for the explanation! I have several and noticed: even if the "legs" have different lengths, breadths, are wavy, or straight, the angles of the rays/legs are the same.

 

[soberguy]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

Here are a few quick photos of the stars I could round up. The ruby shows nothing in photos, and is VERY weak in person. The synthetic (green), and the two blues show distinctly enough.

 

[minousbijoux]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

DavidSmith_35: you're beating a dead horse now. You've made your point, but you are losing the little credibility you have with every additional posting. We get it, we are concerned about it, and want an explanation from NSC. What else is there for you to say? Even if you are a dissatisfied ex-customer, isn't it time for you to move on in life?

 

[transPacific]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

Hello
We spotted a thread by Evan Guttman of Natural sapphire Company mentioning the dispute about domain http://www.naturalsapphirecompany.com .
We offer our response
The claim laid by Michael Arnstein of Natural Sapphire company on domain http://www.naturalsapphirecompany.com is rejected by National Arbitration Forum
More details on the case are available on http://domains.adrforum.com/domains/decisions/1381438.htm
TransPacific Software has filed criminal complaints against Michael Arnstein of Natural sapphire Company with Indian Courts, Police and Federal Bureau of Investigation New York for confidential source code theft in a well-planned conspiracy with two of TransPacific’s employees
Cases are registered after finding evidence against Natural Sapphire Company. Further process is on
Its unfortunate that Natural sapphire company chose to go public by posting such derogatory remarks on forums
We would also like to categorically deny creation or posting any posts about Natural Sapphire Company which this individual Mr. Guttman is hinting at
Further we have sent the screenshots of his derogative remarks to Indian Conciliate in New York and internet crime center who have already served them a notice on the same

Mr. Sunil Shah
Legal Council & Compliance officer
TransPacific Software Pvt. Ltd
[email protected]

 

[Arcadian]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

dahell?

Y'all are something else. This thread is the ultimate train wreck and freak show.

-A

 

[Barrett]

Re: The Natural Sapphire Company www.thenaturalspphirecompan

[cue Twilight Zone music]