The Official TTC Thread!

[gem_anemone]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

Too Patient - hey girl I just wanted to chime in to let you know that I was on the pill for 14 years and I would sporadically have a month here and there where I did not have a "real" period with red blood. Sometimes even without spotting. I would test for pregnancy and get a negative. I talked to my OBGYN about this and she said it was normal for someone on the pill at my dose, but she said if I was worried I could get an ultrasound to check for any cysts or something like that just to make sure things were normal with me. I went ahead with the ultrasound just to be sure and the results came back normal. So if you wanted to talk to your doc and get an extra scan just to be sure that's not unreasonable. Honestly once I found out I was healthy I felt like missing a period was actually pretty awesome. Haha. BTW - as soon as I got off of the pill I had heavier red flow again. So being on hormonal birth control did not mess up my system at all. I was really, really worried about this before I conceived, but everything went back to how it was before I was on the pill even though 14 years had passed.

 

[aviastar]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

Hey all, I'm still here, thank you for thinking of me. It's been a crazy month, absolutely insane and it's not going to let up anytime soon. So I've been laying low on TTC fronts. Plus, I took last month's BFN very hard and now I have to travel in a few weeks to give a baby shower to my sister, so as a pre-emptive self defense mechanism, I've already decided to be out this month. AF is due the day I fly and I just can't be sad again while celebrating with my family.

Despite that, I am temping and paying attention to CM, no OPK's for me this month, so I do know I am set to O here today or tomorrow. Bases are covered, although my chart's a big fat mess as my sleep has been a big fat mess.

I think we're due for some good news in this thread, so here's good luck to us all!

 

[ello]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

BTW, amc80, nice bling!

 

[TooPatient]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

Thanks MP & Gem!

I'll probably see what happens over the next couple of months and then just bring it up at my annual exam. My dr is a cautious woman who likes to (within reason) rule out certain possibilities. I'll follow whatever she suggests and then just relax and enjoy that they are barely there!

MP -- I'd never really given any thought to my mom's menopause being "early" but I guess she was a bit younger than I would expect for that sort of thing to be happening. Probably worth mentioning to my dr also and something to keep in mind as FI and I talk about the timing of TTC. I just turned 28 this March and FI is 57. (his family on both sides tends to live into 90s and 100s and be very healthy right up until the end but I still don't want to wait too long)


ETA: I apparently can't do math after weeks of little/no sleep... My mother would be flattered, but she actually got going with menopause around 48 not 38

 

[monkeyprincess]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

Aviastar, I completely understand what you mean. It is really frustrating when you are ready to start a family, and it takes longer than you expect. I don't think anyone can really understand it until they've been through it. Hopefully, you are right and good news is on the way. I'll be sending good thoughts your way! BTW, I think O day was yesterday or today for me as well.

Toopatient, I think it's a good idea to talk to your doctor and come up with a time table that works for you. Oh, and I just saw that you meant your mom was 48 (and not 3 when she went through menopause, so that makes a lot more sense now. I was wondering how you were already 28 if your mom is 22 years older than you

 

[ello]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

Ladies, I'm stupid but I figure I'm at the right place to ask...I just heard from a friend that you can have a blood test done to determine if you ovulate. Also to check your hormone levels or something...
What is this particular test called? I want to ask my Doctor about it but wanted to know a little about it before I ask her...

 

[amc80]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

Ladies, I'm stupid but I figure I'm at the right place to ask...I just heard from a friend that you can have a blood test done to determine if you ovulate. Also to check your hormone levels or something...
What is this particular test called? I want to ask my Doctor about it but wanted to know a little about it before I ask her...

It's a progesterone test. You get a blood test 6(?) days after ovulation and it can confirm that ovulation occurred.

Found a link- http://www.fertilityauthority.com/articles/fertility-test-checking-progesterone-levels

BTW, amc80, nice bling!

Thanks

 

[ello]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

amc80-Thank you kindly! I will now educate myself and read more about it!

 

[ello]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

Okay, I'm confused...
My apologies in advance for the details but I need you guys to understand...
So I am on Day 10 of my cycle. I usually have an average cycle of 26 days. Sometimes 24.
My last day of my period was Aug 23 (CD-7). I decided to test early this month and low and behold I got a positive ovulation Digi
Smiley face on CD-9 at 10pm in the evening. I also tested with the regular cheapy tests (I buy them from makeababy and got a 2nd LH line although not as dark as the control line. I would say the line strength was medium. Very strange as I normally don't get a positive until CD 12 or 13. So since I got a smiley face, we BD on CD-9 (11:45pm)
Fast forward to the next day. I decided to test again the next day (CD-10) at noon and I got a negative on the Digi, yet the cheapy Internet sticks shows faint 2nd HL line. For good measure we BD at around 1pm, although the Digi was negative.
I tested again at 4pm and Digi is negative and Cheapy test still has a faint line. So I'm wondering why my HL was so early in the month and how come it went away so quickly? I thought it was usually a 24 hour window? I feel a bit bummed because I think we missed the boat again this month. Let me know what you guys think...

 

[amc80]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

Okay, I'm confused...
My apologies in advance for the details but I need you guys to understand...
So I am on Day 10 of my cycle. I usually have an average cycle of 26 days. Sometimes 24.
My last day of my period was Aug 23 (CD-7). I decided to test early this month and low and behold I got a positive ovulation Digi
Smiley face on CD-9 at 10pm in the evening. I also tested with the regular cheapy tests (I buy them from makeababy and got a 2nd LH line although not as dark as the control line. I would say the line strength was medium. Very strange as I normally don't get a positive until CD 12 or 13. So since I got a smiley face, we BD on CD-9 (11:45pm)
Fast forward to the next day. I decided to test again the next day (CD-10) at noon and I got a negative on the Digi, yet the cheapy Internet sticks shows faint 2nd HL line. For good measure we BD at around 1pm, although the Digi was negative.
I tested again at 4pm and Digi is negative and Cheapy test still has a faint line. So I'm wondering why my HL was so early in the month and how come it went away so quickly? I thought it was usually a 24 hour window? I feel a bit bummed because I think we missed the boat again this month. Let me know what you guys think...

It's really hard to say what's going on based on OPKs alone. What were your other symptoms? Any O pain? EWCM? This is why I really recommend temping because you can really see what's happening and confirm ovulation. But if it isn't unusual for you to have a 24 day cycle, then I think ovulation on CD10 isn't out of the question. As far as the quick surge- it can happen like that. Some months I will get 5 days of positive OPKs, other months I get 1-2. Was the CD9 10pm test the first one you took? You could have gotten a positive, say, 24 hours earlier had you tested. It sounds like you caught the tail end of the surge. But I'd be curious to know your other symptoms first. Also possible to surge without ovulating. Your body can gear up and get ready and then have second thoughts (stress, sickness, etc.).

 

[ello]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

Hi thanks for taking the time to write to me amc80.
The CD-9 was the first time I tested at 10pm. I did not think to test sooner because I usually have a positive on CD 12-13. I think you are right. It must have been the tail end. Now let's hope we have fast little swimmers! Ha ha! I'm so bummed. I think we missed the boat AGAIN!
I did not have any noticeable symptoms other than acne. I thought it was a strange to get it so soon. I wonder if my body gears up to ovulate but abandons ship because I still BF-wean. So frustrating!

 

[amc80]

Look what's finally available in the US! http://www.clearblueeasy.com/advanced-pregnancy-test-with-weeks-estimator.php

 

[aviastar]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

Hi thanks for taking the time to write to me amc80.
The CD-9 was the first time I tested at 10pm. I did not think to test sooner because I usually have a positive on CD 12-13. I think you are right. It must have been the tail end. Now let's hope we have fast little swimmers! Ha ha! I'm so bummed. I think we missed the boat AGAIN!
I did not have any noticeable symptoms other than acne. I thought it was a strange to get it so soon. I wonder if my body gears up to ovulate but abandons ship because I still BF-wean. So frustrating!

I wonder about this, too. I know that things like stress- and breastfeeding- can delay ovulation, but I wonder about the mechanics of it. Does the delay mean no CM changes at all, or is it possible to get right up to the trigger point and put it off? You know, like the space shuttle; Nope too cloudy today, let's launch 'er tomorrow instead!

I felt like I was gearing up for a long time this month, too. CM changes started right on schedule, progressing predictably, but no temp change...and no change...for over a week. CM never dried up, so we just kept BDing. I finally had a temp shift three days ago on CD24. It's a good thing I do chart or else I'd be expecting AF on Sunday and I would get very excited when she was 'late.'

 

[amc80]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

Hi thanks for taking the time to write to me amc80.
The CD-9 was the first time I tested at 10pm. I did not think to test sooner because I usually have a positive on CD 12-13. I think you are right. It must have been the tail end. Now let's hope we have fast little swimmers! Ha ha! I'm so bummed. I think we missed the boat AGAIN!
I did not have any noticeable symptoms other than acne. I thought it was a strange to get it so soon. I wonder if my body gears up to ovulate but abandons ship because I still BF-wean. So frustrating!

I wonder about this, too. I know that things like stress- and breastfeeding- can delay ovulation, but I wonder about the mechanics of it. Does the delay mean no CM changes at all, or is it possible to get right up to the trigger point and put it off? You know, like the space shuttle; Nope too cloudy today, let's launch 'er tomorrow instead!

I felt like I was gearing up for a long time this month, too. CM changes started right on schedule, progressing predictably, but no temp change...and no change...for over a week. CM never dried up, so we just kept BDing. I finally had a temp shift three days ago on CD24. It's a good thing I do chart or else I'd be expecting AF on Sunday and I would get very excited when she was 'late.'

I'm not sure, but that is a good question. My (uneducated) guess would be that there is a point of no return, but I'm not sure. As far as the long time gearing up, I usually get EWCM for 5-7 days before I O. But I'm weird like that

Charting is so useful. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say they were "late" when I'm sure they just O'd late. The one real pregnancy scare I had when I was single I was an entire week "late." That was way before I knew anything about this stuff and I know I just O'd late. This is why all 18 year olds need to read TCOYF.

Ello- you are getting AF, right? That leads me to believe you are Oing.

 

[monkeyprincess]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

Ello, I agree with amc, if you are getting regular AFs, you are most likely ovulating. I don't really know what the norm is, but I tend to have pretty short surges. I use wondfos once a day in the mornings (because that is the only time my urine is not too diluted), and I almost always just get one morning of a positive or nearly positive. After that, it starts to fade out again. If you BD'd the night you saw a positive, that is good timing. I think most people ovulate 12-36 hours after the LH surge.

Aviastar, I had one cycle recently where I O'd super late - about 2 weeks later than usual. I actually thought I had O'd early in the cycle because I had a near positive OPK on like CD7, and I had EWCM for about3 weeks straight, which is really unusual for me. But then AF didn't show, and OPKs and HPTs were negative. I only knew I had finally ovulated when I finally got AF two weeks later than I normally would.

amc, interesting about the new pregnancy test. I'm guessing that would have freaked me out when I was pregnant because my HCG started off on the low side. Conversely, someone with higher than average HCG might be a little confused as well....

 

[coda72]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

Jumping back into this thread because I find all the posts about ovulation fascinating. The way my gyn explained it to me that ovulation always occurs 14 days before your next period. So, basically she told me you would have to see into the future to know when your next period is, and count back 14 days. But all of you are saying that you ovulated early or late. Did you track your periods to see if your ovulation occurred 14 days before you got your period? Or is what she's saying wrong? You can ovulate on day 10 for example and have your period 18 days later? If this is all true, I'm probably calculating when I think ovulation is occurring all wrongly!

Anyway, on CD11, and I guess in the TWW. Haven't BD much though, so I'm not holding out much hope for this month. I'm definitely going to buy some OPKs next month to have some better idea of when I might be ovulating.

 

[aviastar]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

Jumping back into this thread because I find all the posts about ovulation fascinating. The way my gyn explained it to me that ovulation always occurs 14 days before your next period. So, basically she told me you would have to see into the future to know when your next period is, and count back 14 days. But all of you are saying that you ovulated early or late. Did you track your periods to see if your ovulation occurred 14 days before you got your period? Or is what she's saying wrong? You can ovulate on day 10 for example and have your period 18 days later? If this is all true, I'm probably calculating when I think ovulation is occurring all wrongly!

Anyway, on CD11, and I guess in the TWW. Haven't BD much though, so I'm not holding out much hope for this month. I'm definitely going to buy some OPKs next month to have some better idea of when I might be ovulating.

Weeeeellll, um, I think your OB is being overly general. As far as I understand, your cycle- which most people assume equals roughly a month- is divided into two parts: Before you O and After you O.

Before you O, your body is growing follicles (eggies) in your ovaries and producing estrogen. This phase can be as long as it needs to be for the eggies to cook or the other conditions in your body to be right. Only one egg, the dominant follicle, is released per cycle, usually. The OPK's are looking for the Lutenizing Hormone that indicated O is approaching; this hormone will surge 24-36 hours before the actual egg is released and you should get a positive OPK at that point. Although OPK's can be tricky for some women as their surges are short or happen overnight or etc.

Then your egg is released and you have about 24 hours for a sperm to catch it.

After you O, the left over follicle (corpus luteum) that released the egg starts producing progesterone in prep for implantation. This is why keeping track of your temperature helps to conclusively detect O; cause progesterone produces heat and raises your temp. Your temperatures will stay high until your period starts; this part is called the Luteal Phase. A healthy luteal phase can be anywhere from 10-18 days; 18 high temperatures in a row generally indicates successful implantation (Pregnancy!!). A short Luteal Phase is under 10 days and may indicate that your body is not producing enough progesterone to make implantation a possibility. According to TCOYF, most women's LPs are very consistent, maybe only off by a day each cycle. But each woman's LP may vary widely from another woman's LP.

And that's not taking into account any of the other fertility indicators, like cervical position and mucus, but I see them as corroborating factors, not actual indications that O has occured.

So, how'd a newbie do, ladies?

Personally, the 14 days model would be terribly off for me. My eggs take a longer time to grow,so I had a 30 day cycle last month; if I counted back 14 days I would assume ovulation somewhere around Day 15. But I actually I pinpointed O on Day 19, And my LP is on the short side, although not dangerously so, thank heaven. Last cycle was 11 days. This month I didn't O until day 24! So assuming another 11 day LP, I'll have a 35 day cycle.

I think you may, indeed, be missing your window. If you and your husband are active (ahem) and have sex every other day or every day it doesn't matter so much, but if you are trying to time sex specifically, it really does matter.

 

[aviastar]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

Hi thanks for taking the time to write to me amc80.
The CD-9 was the first time I tested at 10pm. I did not think to test sooner because I usually have a positive on CD 12-13. I think you are right. It must have been the tail end. Now let's hope we have fast little swimmers! Ha ha! I'm so bummed. I think we missed the boat AGAIN!
I did not have any noticeable symptoms other than acne. I thought it was a strange to get it so soon. I wonder if my body gears up to ovulate but abandons ship because I still BF-wean. So frustrating!

I wonder about this, too. I know that things like stress- and breastfeeding- can delay ovulation, but I wonder about the mechanics of it. Does the delay mean no CM changes at all, or is it possible to get right up to the trigger point and put it off? You know, like the space shuttle; Nope too cloudy today, let's launch 'er tomorrow instead!

I felt like I was gearing up for a long time this month, too. CM changes started right on schedule, progressing predictably, but no temp change...and no change...for over a week. CM never dried up, so we just kept BDing. I finally had a temp shift three days ago on CD24. It's a good thing I do chart or else I'd be expecting AF on Sunday and I would get very excited when she was 'late.'

I'm not sure, but that is a good question. My (uneducated) guess would be that there is a point of no return, but I'm not sure. As far as the long time gearing up, I usually get EWCM for 5-7 days before I O. But I'm weird like that

Charting is so useful. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say they were "late" when I'm sure they just O'd late. The one real pregnancy scare I had when I was single I was an entire week "late." That was way before I knew anything about this stuff and I know I just O'd late. This is why all 18 year olds need to read TCOYF.

Ello- you are getting AF, right? That leads me to believe you are Oing.

Dude, you aren't kidding. I had no idea about this stuff! My future daughters will be taught this!

 

[ello]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

Fascinating stuff Aviastar! It was terrifically written for me who is challenged in the language area!

There are interesting Ovulation lectures on YouTube if you search those terms. Not sure if we can post a link here?

So if I received a smiley face on CD-9 at 10pm, does that mean that I should technically have ovulated within 12 hours later? Is that why I got a negative on the Digi when I tested about 14 hours later? So you guys think I may still have a chance? Please give me some hope! :0)
Perhaps I should start taking my temperature.

How long (Hours) generally does it take the "boys" to make it over to the egg? I had a little bit of cramping the next day but I'm not sure if I had body aches from BD'ing? Ha ha! We're not teenagers anymore. Ha ha!

Once you Ovulate does your LHormone go away completely or can it still show faint on test stick the day after?

Can you get more than one Digi smiley face a month, let's say you geared up to ovulate but stopped. Will your body try again to Ovulate later or do you only get one chance?

Someone asked...Yes, I do get AF...do I ever! Just hate it!

 

[Loves Vintage]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

Fascinating stuff Aviastar! It was terrifically written for me who is challenged in the language area!

There are interesting Ovulation lectures on YouTube if you search those terms. Not sure if we can post a link here?

So if I received a smiley face on CD-9 at 10pm, does that mean that I should technically have ovulated within 12 hours later? Is that why I got a negative on the Digi when I tested about 14 hours later? So you guys think I may still have a chance? Please give me some hope! :0)
Perhaps I should start taking my temperature.

How long (Hours) generally does it take the "boys" to make it over to the egg? I had a little bit of cramping the next day but I'm not sure if I had body aches from BD'ing? Ha ha! We're not teenagers anymore. Ha ha!

Once you Ovulate does your LHormone go away completely or can it still show faint on test stick the day after?

Can you get more than one Digi smiley face a month, let's say you geared up to ovulate but stopped. Will your body try again to Ovulate later or do you only get one chance?

Someone asked...Yes, I do get AF...do I ever! Just hate it!

Hello Ello!

I do not have a lot of time to post right now, but wanted to post this for you.

http://www.clearblueeasy.com/clearblue-easy-digital-ovulation-test.php

The CBE detects the rise of the ovulation hormone LH 24-36 hours prior to ovulation, so I think you are well timed, right? They say it's better to have the sperm waiting to catch the egg, so it sounds like you are good.

I do think the decline in LH is somewhat gradual, which is why your cheapie was still showing a line. I wish I had a better link at the moment, but check out the chart here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luteinizing_hormone

 

[aviastar]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

I'll go pull out TCOYF a bit later tonight, cause some of those questions are beyond my limited knowledge!

I do know that implantation is supposed to occur most likely between days 7-10 of your LP. Although we've seen proof here that it can happen much faster than that (hey, NEL! ). I don't think you could possibly feel actual insemination, though, so probably just soreness. Haha, that means you are doing it right!

 

[ello]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

Lol lol! that's me blushing!

 

[ello]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

Thanks Loves Vintage. I guess my concern is that I got a smiley (positive) at 10pm unexpectedly on CD-9 (this is very early for my usual CD12-13) and when testing the next day (CD-10) it was negative. No smiley. So, I either got a false positive on the digi or the tail end of the LH surge and ovulated during the night (OR) my body geared up to ovulate but decided against it. Fingers crossed that luck is on our side and I ovulated during the night. I'll keep you guys posted. Enough about my whining. How's everyone else doing. Any funny stories?

 

[amc80]

Thanks Loves Vintage. I guess my concern is that I got a smiley (positive) at 10pm unexpectedly on CD-9 (this is very early for my usual CD12-13) and when testing the next day (CD-10) it was negative. No smiley. So, I either got a false positive on the digi or the tail end of the LH surge and ovulated during the night (OR) my body geared up to ovulate but decided against it. Fingers crossed that luck is on our side and I ovulated during the night. I'll keep you guys posted. Enough about my whining. How's everyone else doing. Any funny stories?

It really does sound like you O'd that night. Ovulation is usually 12-48 hours after a positive test. Some months are just weird. I ovulated on CD13 last cycle and I'm usually CD16 or so. The good news about Oing early is that means you are that much closer to testing

 

[monkeyprincess]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

Thanks Loves Vintage. I guess my concern is that I got a smiley (positive) at 10pm unexpectedly on CD-9 (this is very early for my usual CD12-13) and when testing the next day (CD-10) it was negative. No smiley. So, I either got a false positive on the digi or the tail end of the LH surge and ovulated during the night (OR) my body geared up to ovulate but decided against it. Fingers crossed that luck is on our side and I ovulated during the night. I'll keep you guys posted. Enough about my whining. How's everyone else doing. Any funny stories?

Ello, I don't know this for a fact, but I don't think your ovulation test will necessarily stay positive until you ovulate. I would think it is possible to have a short surge but still not ovulate for a day or so. Conversely, some people have long surges, so it's possible they still get positive OPKs after they ovulate. I don't ever feel ovulation and I don't temp, so I really can only guess how long after the positive OPK I actually ovulate. I think somebody else said this, but I wouldn't stress too much about it. Just try to BD every other day or so around the time you think you might ovulate, and you should hopefully have your bases covered. As others have said, I strongly recommend Taking Charge of Your Fertility. It should answer a lot of the questions you are asking and really is a great resource. Good luck to you!

Aviastar, great explanation. It truly is amazing how little most people actually know (myself included until I started thinking about TTC) about how ovulation works and the timing of it, etc.

Coda, as Aviastar said, 14 days is only an average luteal phase. Just like not every woman has a regular 28 day cycle. It's possible yours is a few days shorter or longer, and that's why it is really important to at least try to monitor when you ovulate if you are having trouble TTC. Once you track a few cycles, you should have a pretty good estimate of how long your LP is, but it definitely is not 14 days for everybody.

 

[amc80]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

Ello, I don't know this for a fact, but I don't think your ovulation test will necessarily stay positive until you ovulate. I would think it is possible to have a short surge but still not ovulate for a day or so. Conversely, some people have long surges, so it's possible they still get positive OPKs after they ovulate.

Interesting. I always thought you got a + until the egg popped since it is the surge that causes ovulation. I'm definitely no expert though! And I'm one of those people who gets positives for DAYS after I ovulate. One time I got 5 days of positives in a row and ovulated after the first positive.

 

[tammy77]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

Delurking to say that my opks always faded quickly. I'd get a true positive by afternoon and by the next morning it was definitely negative. Also, my temp shift usually came within 1-2 days of the positive, but it was always negative for sure by te time I ovulated. Good luck!!!

 

[monkeyprincess]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

Delurking to say that my opks always faded quickly. I'd get a true positive by afternoon and by the next morning it was definitely negative. Also, my temp shift usually came within 1-2 days of the positive, but it was always negative for sure by te time I ovulated. Good luck!!!

Thanks Tammy, that is what my experience was the couple of cycles I charted temps. Then again, we both had a little trouble TTC, so maybe we are not the best representative sample.

amc, I was under the impression that your LH had to surge in order to signal to your ovary/follicle that it was time to ovulate, but that you do not actually ovulate until 12-48 hours later. I just assumed that meant you do not have to have a continuous surge that entire time in order to ovulate. But like I said, I could be wrong on that, and maybe it is different for everyone.

 

[amc80]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

amc, I was under the impression that your LH had to surge in order to signal to your ovary/follicle that it was time to ovulate, but that you do not actually ovulate until 12-48 hours later. I just assumed that meant you do not have to have a continuous surge that entire time in order to ovulate. But like I said, I could be wrong on that, and maybe it is different for everyone.

That makes sense. Like I said, I have long surges so my LH levels linger for a while. Here is a good example-


I guess if someone has normal surges (what is normal?) then I could see how there could be a lag between the surge and the temp shift/ovulation.

 

[tammy77]

Re: The Official TTC Thread!

MP, this is true re: you and I! I think I read somewhere while riding the LTTTC crazy train that once you get a true positive opk you should stop testing because that first one was what mattered. That would fall in line with AMC's theory too. I'm not sure, that's part of why I had to temp in addition to opks. I'm too much of a control freak/data driven person not to!