The rough for my Octavia (pics)...

[diamondseeker2006]

Wow, DF, that is so exciting to see the diamond at this stage! You'll never see the inclusion once all those little facets are cut!

 

[gregchang35]

wow!

Love the progress pics. It is all starting to come together.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Wow, DF, that is so exciting to see the diamond at this stage! You'll never see the inclusion once all those little facets are cut!

Hopefully not since it could still come back VS2 or an eye clean SI1. My eyes are too old to pick up any inclusions.

 

[kenny]

Thanks for the pics, Yoram, Jonathan, and DF.

I think it is fascinating and awesome to see in-pocess pics as the facets are being polished.

Question for anyone with expertise:
Could the feather have been a surprise because those windows (polished onto the rough early, as shown in the pic below) only permitted a view of the feather from the wrong angle, or an angle that 'hides' the feather ... much like viewing a piece of paper from the side?
Or is there some light-bending property of diamond that can make inclusions in certain locations hard to spot given only a few small windows on the diamond's frosty surface.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Kenny
Maybe Yoram can answer your Q.

 

[kenny]

Someone pour me a glass of wine.
DF, I thought your ship came in.

 

[Acinom]

How exciting that your fabulous stone is nearing completion DF!
This is one of my favourite threads. Thanks for sharing . It such an interesting process.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Someone pour me a glass of wine.
DF, I thought your ship came in.

Nope, you know as much as I do...

did Jon shipped you my Octavia by mistake?..

 

[kenny]

Someone pour me a glass of wine.
DF, I thought your ship came in.

... did Jon shipped you my Octavia by mistake?

Yes.

Thanks a million, DF.
It's gorgeous.

 

[Serg]

Thanks for the pics, Yoram, Jonathan, and DF.

I think it is fascinating and awesome to see in-pocess pics as the facets are being polished.

Question for anyone with expertise:
Could the feather have been a surprise because those windows (polished onto the rough early, as shown in the pic below) only permitted a view of the feather from the wrong angle, or an angle that 'hides' the feather ... much like viewing a piece of paper from the side?
Or is there some light-bending property of diamond that can make inclusions in certain locations hard to spot given only a few small windows on the diamond's frosty surface.

Kenny,

such windows are enough to allocate the crack with good enough precision if cutter uses special hardware and software.
But crack may grooving during cutting process .
the result depends from skills and technologies for planing, sawing, bruiting .

 

[diagem]

Thanks for the pics, Yoram, Jonathan, and DF.

I think it is fascinating and awesome to see in-pocess pics as the facets are being polished.

Question for anyone with expertise:
Could the feather have been a surprise because those windows (polished onto the rough early, as shown in the pic below) only permitted a view of the feather from the wrong angle, or an angle that 'hides' the feather ... much like viewing a piece of paper from the side?
Or is there some light-bending property of diamond that can make inclusions in certain locations hard to spot given only a few small windows on the diamond's frosty surface.

Hi Kenny, basically all of your questions are valid and then some...
In our specific case, it was a completely see-through feather which originated from a single plane (most feathers originate from multi-planes which causes them to be more easily visible when studied. These single-plane see-through feathers depending on their size/position will allow the light path through the feather without any light bending/reflections causing the depth of the feathers almost impossible to calculate. Once the cutting process begins the heat implemented will allow clearer visibility of the feather.
I am attaching two images showing a before and after polishing visual of the feather to better explain...

There are some technologies which allow a more accurate mapping of some inclusions within a Diamond but according to our experience those fine single-plain feathers have the ability to fool those as well...., I believe this is in regards to what Sergey wrote which i just noticed.

 

[OoohShiny]

Great macro photos

Looks like the cutting is coming along nicely!

 

[kenny]

Thanks Serg and Yoram.
Fascinating!

I'm sure I'm not the only one here on PS who appreciates learning this insider diamond knowledge.

 

[Snicklefritz]

Neato close-ups! Love seeing the process in action. Excited for the finished product!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Yoram...thanks for the update... .. any durability issue with the feather location?

 

[Andelain]

Thanks Serg and Yoram.
Fascinating!

I'm sure I'm not the only one here on PS who appreciates learning this insider diamond knowledge.

You're not. I've been enjoying this thread, especially once the pics started.

 

[diagem]

Yoram...thanks for the update... .. any durability issue with the feather location?

HI DF.
You will receive a full analysis on the Diamond from GOG when completed but if you are concerned, then no, this feather, its size, position & location will not cause any durability issues whatsoever.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Yoram...thanks for the update... .. any durability issue with the feather location?

HI DF.
You will receive a full analysis on the Diamond from GOG when completed but if you are concerned, then no, this feather, its size, position & location will not cause any durability issues whatsoever.

Thanks Yoram, looking forward for more pics..

 

[diagem]

Interesting situation occurred which I would suspect is a rare occasion in any cutting process and which we encounter broadly.

This is one recent scan of the Octavia in its present form:



P1 main is at 52.8 degrees(52.9 is erred), all other 3 P1's are at 52.4, their final planned position, angles & azimuths.
P1 52.8 is positioned smack on the rough crystal natural plane making it impossible to Polish to a shallower angle and it's impossible to polish to ideal polish. As remedy, a decision was made to polish a slight tilt from the table which will allow us to position said P1 at a 52.4 degree to match the other three P1's. It's an extremely fine-tuning gesture and a polish process so sensitive most cutters would not even consider. Needles to say the rest of the facets will have to be re-tuned to match the tilt.

This situation is being recorded for the process article. It's extremely interesting and will clearly show innovative cutting practices and the the importance to achieve top polish & 3D symmetry precision.

 

[Tekate]

Interesting situation occurred which I would suspect is a rare occasion in any cutting process and which we encounter broadly.

this is been the most fascinating and educational thread I have read. thank you very much.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Interesting situation occurred which I would suspect is a rare occasion in any cutting process and which we encounter broadly.

This is one recent scan of the Octavia in its present form:



P1 main is at 52.8 degrees(52.9 is erred), all other 3 P1's are at 52.4, their final planned position, angles & azimuths.
P1 52.8 is positioned smack on the rough crystal natural plane making it impossible to Polish to a shallower angle and it's impossible to polish to ideal polish. As remedy, a decision was made to polish a slight tilt from the table which will allow us to position said P1 at a 52.4 degree to match the other three P1's. It's an extremely fine-tuning gesture and a polish process so sensitive most cutters would not even consider. Needles to say the rest of the facets will have to be re-tuned to match the tilt.

This situation is being recorded for the process article. It's extremely interesting and will clearly show innovative cutting practices and the the importance to achieve top polish & 3D symmetry precision.

Yoram
With these adjustments will the stone still receive AGS Ideal 0 grade? any guess of its final weight?

 

[diagem]

Yoram
With these adjustments will the stone still receive AGS Ideal 0 grade? any guess of its final weight?

These adjustments are specifically applied in order to achieve a 3D symmetry precision as close to perfect as possible.
On plenty of occasions we must extremely lightly repolish an entire facet structure in order to fine tune symmetry facet meeting points within technological margins of error. Usually such a process might take a full day and wont loose any weight . It's really basically slightly moving facet junctions to their planned and final positions.

DF, it is all good, it's a long, challenging & complex cutting process (which many cutters look at us as crazies) but when we manage to complete a cut to OUR satisfactory level of precision, it's a great feeling of achievement.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

It makes me so proud to have a stone that you have cut, Yoram. You are a true artist and engineer in one!

 

[Karl_K]

DF, I am learning much of this along with everyone else but I think what is going to happen can be simplified like this and Yoram can correct me if I understand it wrong.
Picture your diamond floating inside it.
Some of it will be left and some removed to form your diamond.
What he is doing is shifting what will be your diamond slightly, some of what would have been removed is saved and some of what would have been saved is removed.
In the end it comes out perfect to plan just slightly shifted inside the material.
The finished diamond is the same either way.

 

[Serg]

Interesting situation occurred which I would suspect is a rare occasion in any cutting process and which we encounter broadly.

This is one recent scan of the Octavia in its present form:



P1 main is at 52.8 degrees(52.9 is erred), all other 3 P1's are at 52.4, their final planned position, angles & azimuths.
P1 52.8 is positioned smack on the rough crystal natural plane making it impossible to Polish to a shallower angle and it's impossible to polish to ideal polish. As remedy, a decision was made to polish a slight tilt from the table which will allow us to position said P1 at a 52.4 degree to match the other three P1's. It's an extremely fine-tuning gesture and a polish process so sensitive most cutters would not even consider. Needles to say the rest of the facets will have to be re-tuned to match the tilt.

This situation is being recorded for the process article. It's extremely interesting and will clearly show innovative cutting practices and the the importance to achieve top polish & 3D symmetry precision.

Yoram, please publish photo from same direction. I want compare edge junctions from model with edge junctions from real diamond.
if we see significant difference then real slope angles would be different.

also I advice scan the diamond in 4 different positions ( rotate on +90 degree each time ) then compare slope angles for same facets

 

[diagem]

Interesting situation occurred which I would suspect is a rare occasion in any cutting process and which we encounter broadly.

This is one recent scan of the Octavia in its present form:



P1 main is at 52.8 degrees(52.9 is erred), all other 3 P1's are at 52.4, their final planned position, angles & azimuths.
P1 52.8 is positioned smack on the rough crystal natural plane making it impossible to Polish to a shallower angle and it's impossible to polish to ideal polish. As remedy, a decision was made to polish a slight tilt from the table which will allow us to position said P1 at a 52.4 degree to match the other three P1's. It's an extremely fine-tuning gesture and a polish process so sensitive most cutters would not even consider. Needles to say the rest of the facets will have to be re-tuned to match the tilt.

This situation is being recorded for the process article. It's extremely interesting and will clearly show innovative cutting practices and the the importance to achieve top polish & 3D symmetry precision.

Yoram, please publish photo from same direction. I want compare edge junctions from model with edge junctions from real diamond.
if we see significant difference then real slope angles would be different.

also I advice scan the diamond in 4 different positions ( rotate on +90 degree each time ) then compare slope angles for same facets

Hi Sergey,
It's impossible as we already past that point, but will definitely publish a comparisons (srn. vs real image) on our future process article when this Octavia is completed.

I can tell you though that the meeting points on Octavia type Stepcut design is extremely accurate on our HD scan. It's not as accurate on some selected fancy shaped brilliant cuts unfortunately. In this specific case, we are already safely positioned withing the technological margin of error. At this stage we are starting to depend more on our skills and less on the numbers technology show us.

But yes, I fully understand what you mean by multiple scanning in order to get 3D information as close as possible to the reality of the physical stone. Technological margins of error realy complicate the processes at the 3D symmetry precision we aim at. That's why we needed to conquer our independence from technology when nearing the end of any 3D precision process.

BTW, it's as complicated in the designing & rough planning process, the rough stones needs to be scanned in multiple positions in order for the scan to take into calculation most the indented natural type surfaces/skins which comes with the oddly shaped rough.

 

[diagem]

DF, I am learning much of this along with everyone else but I think what is going to happen can be simplified like this and Yoram can correct me if I understand it wrong.
Picture your diamond floating inside it.
Some of it will be left and some removed to form your diamond.
What he is doing is shifting what will be your diamond slightly, some of what would have been removed is saved and some of what would have been saved is removed.
In the end it comes out perfect to plan just slightly shifted inside the material.
The finished diamond is the same either way.

Yes Karl, it's a nano shifting of the position (imagine we need to slightly tilt the position of the Diamond in order to reposition the problematic P1 from 52.8 deg to 52.4 deg. (4 tenths of 1 degree when the margin of error on tech is 1.5 +/- e.g. 3 tenths of 1 deg.)
It's basically slightly shifting facet junctions weightlessly. a true art within our rigid cutting process.
Don't get this process in a wrong way, leaving it as is (as all cutters would for sure) will still produce the Ideal 0 (excepts possibly the polish grade as its impossible to achieve a full polish level we require BUT might still suffice for an AGS-0)
In any case, it's not satisfactory for me so I insist of correcting it.

I will post a microscopic image of the polish condition of that specific P1 when I post images of the process.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Yoram...thanks for the update... any new pics?...

 

[diagem]

Interesting situation occurred which I would suspect is a rare occasion in any cutting process and which we encounter broadly.

This is one recent scan of the Octavia in its present form:



P1 main is at 52.8 degrees(52.9 is erred), all other 3 P1's are at 52.4, their final planned position, angles & azimuths.
P1 52.8 is positioned smack on the rough crystal natural plane making it impossible to Polish to a shallower angle and it's impossible to polish to ideal polish. As remedy, a decision was made to polish a slight tilt from the table which will allow us to position said P1 at a 52.4 degree to match the other three P1's. It's an extremely fine-tuning gesture and a polish process so sensitive most cutters would not even consider. Needles to say the rest of the facets will have to be re-tuned to match the tilt.

This situation is being recorded for the process article. It's extremely interesting and will clearly show innovative cutting practices and the the importance to achieve top polish & 3D symmetry precision.

Yoram, please publish photo from same direction. I want compare edge junctions from model with edge junctions from real diamond.
if we see significant difference then real slope angles would be different.

also I advice scan the diamond in 4 different positions ( rotate on +90 degree each time ) then compare slope angles for same facets

Hi Sergey,

I am attaching a srn vs. real meeting point image of a different Octavia (Not DF's, sorry for the quick threadjack)

Its not the best image but as close as I could get. You can clearly see the small misalignment on three out of four corners of that girdle facet on the srn.

 

[sturgeon123456]

This thread is unreal, thanks for sharing and taking us all through this amazing process!