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The war on Lab Diamonds continues

Rockdiamond

Rockdiamond

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
10,182
It's getting kinda tiresome.
We have people giving away 1ct lab diamonds to "prove" they are worthless.
The newest warrior is Rappaport.
The softening of the mined diamond market is hurting a lot of people.
Rappaport is losing influence. Thus, he's fighting back by doing everything he can to trash lab grown diamonds and the market for them.
"Only a real diamond signifies love"....what a load of crap.

Here's my take as of today:
Yes, prices of lab grown diamonds have plummeted over the past 5 years.
A 5ct Lab diamond in 2021 was probably about $25k.
Now, it's below $5k.
But the decline has slowed, and in some cases, the prices have stabilized, or even gone up incrementally (primarily in smaller goods for pavé)
Rappaport and the detractors of Lab diamonds would have us believe they're going to be selling at $5 a carat before long- or be totally worthless.

The reality is that we're not talking about chopped meat. Readers and members of this forum definitely understand that not all diamonds are created equally.
What does signify love is taking the time to present a ring to your intended that you put a lot of thought into.
Something he or she will love for a lifetime. The selection of the best cut, or most attractive diamond.
A quality piece of jewelry
Due to all this, we've seen a large drop in the average price of the rings we sell. A result of the popularity of lab grown diamonds.
We can sell a gorgeous 2ct center diamond ( colorless, clean) Platinum ring with pavé for around $3500
I don't see that going down much, if at all.
I'm sure our worthy competitors here on PS who are selling lab diamonds will agree.
We sell something very special because of the love WE put into the design and manufacture.
No matter where the diamond came from.
 
It appears he is trying to sway the bridal market. I kind of predicted things would get interesting when lab diamonds became competition for natural diamonds in that market. I wonder if the marketing that served him so well in another era will be effective today. I love both lab and natural. I am being pulled toward a brown colored, natural OEC right now, but keep comparing it to a 9 stone lab asscher band. I'm not sure which to choose. My choice will not have anything to do with marketing though. I just can't decide which I like better.
 
Rockdiamond said:
It's getting kinda tiresome.
We have people giving away 1ct lab diamonds to "prove" they are worthless.
The newest warrior is Rappaport.
The softening of the mined diamond market is hurting a lot of people.
Rappaport is losing influence. Thus, he's fighting back by doing everything he can to trash lab grown diamonds and the market for them.
"Only a real diamond signifies love"....what a load of crap.

Here's my take as of today:
Yes, prices of lab grown diamonds have plummeted over the past 5 years.
A 5ct Lab diamond in 2021 was probably about $25k.
Now, it's below $5k.
But the decline has slowed, and in some cases, the prices have stabilized, or even gone up incrementally (primarily in smaller goods for pavé)
Rappaport and the detractors of Lab diamonds would have us believe they're going to be selling at $5 a carat before long- or be totally worthless.

The reality is that we're not talking about chopped meat. Readers and members of this forum definitely understand that not all diamonds are created equally.
What does signify love is taking the time to present a ring to your intended that you put a lot of thought into.
Something he or she will love for a lifetime. The selection of the best cut, or most attractive diamond.
A quality piece of jewelry
Due to all this, we've seen a large drop in the average price of the rings we sell. A result of the popularity of lab grown diamonds.
We can sell a gorgeous 2ct center diamond ( colorless, clean) Platinum ring with pavé for around $3500
I don't see that going down much, if at all.
I'm sure our worthy competitors here on PS who are selling lab diamonds will agree.
We sell something very special because of the love WE put into the design and manufacture.
No matter where the diamond came from.
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree, @Rockdiamond! Thank you for sharing that.
 
Clear Cut also does the "we give away 1, 1.5 and 2 ct lab travel rings bc they're worthless" all the while peddling goods which are completely out of budget for many many people. Companies will do what they're gonna do, but the market will also do what it's going to do ... and if the campaign to increase the elitism in the mined market works, well ... that's each person just show their own colors.
 
And the thing is, the blitz is not working as intended. It's not swaying the young, the cache of mined is dwindling because only a very small subset has the money or desire to put toward it. There are also issues surrounding the process, etc. There is pushback to the old guard hundred year old propagandized exclusivity. We were raised in it. They aren't. There's a lot of rationalization of material origin going on as innovation tends to push to the forefront. There's going to be some pain for people. What was true yesterday is no longer true today. And that's perfectly valid.

It just doesn't exist for the younger generation that in many ways has been barred from that from the outset. It doesn't mean what it used to. People have more information as to the hows and whys. Things change. The market share for lab is exploding.
I think this is a seismic permanent shift. I think Rappaport and others are standing with a finger in the dam. To that I say, good luck.
 
I look forward to seeing what happens to diamonds now that the average amount Americans spent on an engagement ring last year--$6000--can buy a 6 carat lab diamond that only an expert could tell from a natural diamond that cost a quarter million or half a million.

Will everyone just assume large diamonds are lab made and no longer be impressed? Will diamonds go out of fashion as people who want to show that they have money to burn move on to something that doesn't have a cheap, perfect lookalike? Will diamond engagement rings become hopelessly dated? Will people stop proposing with rings? Will ten carat diamonds become the new standard size for an engagement ring? Will engagement rings become like wedding bands--a relationship symbol that's not a display of wealth?

Amethysts were once rare and considered precious gemstones. Will diamonds be like amethysts?
 
Dinosaurs will roar because its all they can do, they have no answers to lab diamonds.
Mined Diamond prices have risen at multiples of the increase in budget available in the last 20 years I have been on PS so the bling per buck decrease has not been in consumers favor by a huge amount.
 
+1000 to the entire post. And I really loved this line.
ItsMainelyYou said:
I think Rappaport and others are standing with a finger in the dam.
Click to expand...
And here’s his gem from FB today
If you ever try to re-sell a synthetic diamond, you’re out of luck.
No one is buying them back.

Retailers are afraid to buy synthetic diamonds because their prices continue to fall.
Many consumers don’t realize this.

The Rapaport Group does not deal with synthetic diamonds in any way.
We recommend that synthetic sellers include the following statement on marketing materials:

“Synthetic diamonds do not appreciate in value like natural diamonds
because they can be created in unlimited quantities and
are not subject to the same supply limitations as natural diamonds.”

Leads me to ask, ”what sort of warning should sellers of mined diamonds include in their marketing materials?”
 
It seems like some consumers still carry around this perspective that they can turn their mined diamonds into cash should they need or want to. Vendors have helped create that mind-set and are also capitalizing on it with these ad campaigns saying lab diamonds are worthless and that only natural diamonds increase in value. But in reality the consumer doesn't understand how difficult it is to sell a diamond privately and how much they could actually sell their mined diamond for.

I read on another forum that if you buy a nice lab diamond at $2k and can't sell it for anything you've lost $2k. But if you buy a same size and quality mined diamond for $20k, you are very likely going to lose a lot more than $2k if you try to sell it. If more people understood this, the desire for mined diamonds could decrease even more.
 
Rockdiamond said:
+1000 to the entire post. And I really loved this line.

And here’s his gem from FB today
If you ever try to re-sell a synthetic diamond, you’re out of luck.
No one is buying them back.

Retailers are afraid to buy synthetic diamonds because their prices continue to fall.
Many consumers don’t realize this.

The Rapaport Group does not deal with synthetic diamonds in any way.
We recommend that synthetic sellers include the following statement on marketing materials:

“Synthetic diamonds do not appreciate in value like natural diamonds
because they can be created in unlimited quantities and
are not subject to the same supply limitations as natural diamonds.”

Leads me to ask, ”what sort of warning should sellers of mined diamonds include in their marketing materials?”
Click to expand...
First, they should try being more honest.

After people hear these caveats, they can make an informed decision on which way they want to go.
As Rappaport says, 'many consumers don't realize':
-diamonds aren't particularly rare
-most natural diamonds don't appreciate.
-diamonds depreciate like cars do, the minute you walk out the door, by half or more!
-If you sell, expect to get 25%- if you're really lucky, 50%.
-you will never recoup retail value.
-buyback programs are whittling down their parameters arbitrarily, including ours! So read the fine print!
-The lab market reached 12 billion in 2023. It will reach 20 billion or more by 2032.
-you can save 70% over mined for the same ring.
-yes, they are made of the exact same material.
- natural diamonds are never an investment for consumers
 
Lab diamonds…
Will decrease in price but still end up costing a little more than lab colored stones and moissanite. Will become common in 2-3 cts for regularly worn rings. Will become common in bands, bracelets, and necklaces. Will still carry a premium (albeit less than now) for nice and/or unusual cuts. Will become more common in unusual colors/cuts. Will continue to improve in tone and variety of fancy colors. Will be assumed for any diamond, not just big ones, unless the earth grown diamond is tiny or included or low color. Will be considered costume-y above a certain bling level. Will have the advantage over moissanite in pink, for the moment.

Think about moissanite - people pay a premium for the fancy cuts, they wear them in expensive settings, they buy green and grey, but they don’t wear thirty-five carats.

Earth diamonds…
Will drop in price for low clarity and color, and drop in price a little less for higher quality. Will become more available in less common shapes and cuts. Will slowly become less available in smaller sizes - but people won’t care. Will still command a premium at some high level of size + quality - like, way higher than what we see on PS. Will become more affordable at smaller sizes in certain fancy colors... which are an interesting topic; one wonders how rare they really are... not saying they are not rare or not precious… however, yellow and pink have become ubiquitous on mainstream online vendors, and consumers might be a little less trusting these days of what the industry says.

Am really curious what consumer good(s) middle class people will choose as their next display of wealth, that are as portable and long-lasting as diamonds. You can’t carry your Tesla around the office and your purse and wallet will wear out. Watches, maybe, since it is socially acceptable to display the brand name on the face, but…they are often hidden under sleeves, plus there are dupes of everything nowadays.
 
oncrutchesrightnow said:
Am really curious what consumer good(s) middle class people will choose as their next display of wealth, that are as portable and long-lasting as diamonds.
Click to expand...
Perceptive outlook.
On this point.....to me, the entire debate hinges on this: Diamonds are incredible to possess and to wear.
There's something more special about a diamond as compared to colored stones for example- forget about CZ and Moissy's they can't come close.
Lab diamonds are identical to natural diamonds in this regard- in terms of utility.
No matter how much Marty cries, when I open the parcel paper and see that diamond, there's a visceral reaction. Doesn't matter where the diamond was created.
 
I love lab diamonds. ❤

I am right on the cusp of the age range when the natural / lab diamond transition started to occur. It took a while to reconcile the difference in my mind.

That being said, I am glad for lab diamonds!! I don't wear diamonds to impress others or to signify wealth so the status aspect of mined diamonds never appealed to me much. As an investment or as stored value, there are better things to put money in than diamonds.

As a gemstone, diamonds are still awesome nonetheless! Nothing refracts light quite the way a diamond does. For the most part, I appreciate that I can get well-cut high quality crystal in lab diamonds and for the lower price, it opens up a lot more fun design potential.
 
I’m in the midst of my next Lgd project for a tennis bracelet. And I would never be able to afford a natural. So yes I love it.
 
Rockdiamond said:
Leads me to ask, ”what sort of warning should sellers of mined diamonds include in their marketing materials?”
Click to expand...

Please also stop reading/definately don't click on any links, if you are overly sensitive. It's also a festive/happy time of year so also maybe give it a skip if you want to stay jolly.

Some things that come to my mind.

Wasn't Mr Rapport himself recently engaged in an unsuccessful hunger strike for something concerning the ethics of purchasing natural diamonds recently? Should he not refuse to promote those same diamonds until those matters are resolved?

If I'm not mistaken the country of origin for up-to 40% of natural rough is the one conducting a land invasion of a European country with the intent, among other things, of eliminating that peoples national identity. There is a word for that...

Iran is giving that country significant military assistance. What is it getting in return? Is said country assisting Iran in its goal of obtaining nukes? What does Iran want to do with its nukes? I'm sure it would make Oct 7 seem insignificant in comparison.
North Korea is also providing over 1 million shells to said country. What are they getting in return? Better, longer range, more "world ending"rockets? Great

Given the current state of happenings, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Alrosa had its own PMC!, helping to launder African conflict/B-D's and/or engaging directly in the cleansing operations.


To me buying a symbol of love knowing that the money spent potentially contributed to, among other things:

-The abduction and "re-education" of children. ~19,000 is the current estimate. Could you even comprehend if your child was abducted and "re-educated" to hate you, just for being you?

-The deliberate targeting of civilians and civilian infrastructure.
-Systematic and widespread torture, reportedly differentially targeting anyone displaying national identity. There's a word for that.

-Misinformation/information operations in my own country designed to increase division and decrease societal cohesion.

-Building nuclear doomsday weapons and threatening me/my misso with them.

-Less food leading to increased suffering/famine, among the world poorest peoples.

-Environmental/ecological terrorism. Khakhovka dam for instance.

-Higher energy prices

-More climate change due to a dirtier "energy mix" being used.
-"Meat wave" tactics where people are sent forward, sometimes armed with nothing but a stick, to die, so that the enemies positions can be located. (I've seen videos, many videos..)
-Nuclear proliferation.

-General increased disorder in the world.

If I am not mistaken atleast 2/3 - 66% of the rough price goes directly to the govt. They are, from what I understand, short on money so the money, your symbol of love purchase provides, will likely contribute and "make a difference" yay. Not something necessarily true with other ethics based purchasing decisions.

Maybe I'm just the victim of a western misinformation campaign. Maybe whatabout - xxx makes it ok in comparison. Maybe the invading country is actually the centre of the resistance against that evil west. Each to their own I suppose.




Concerning CZ's, Moissys and diamonds I completely agree that CZ doesn't hold up to scrutiny when compared with diamond however Moissy does hold a niche that some people, not me, prefer. The fire is better based on my ghetto light performance tests but the on-off sparkles, from distance, of a diamond cannot be beat in my simpleton "test".


All stones were washed with warm soapy water and a soft bristle tooth brush before the "test".

Here is my JP decagon diamond. The beams of light in the room were incredible! They were all around and visible due to the dust in the air.

1702455049191.png

1702454986631.png


This is my gfs 16H&A moissy from starsgem. She gets compliments on them on a semi regular basis. Perfect cut as far as I can tell. They are very fiery/flashy close up. There were no visible "beams" apart from the one central one, more of a "flood of colour" effect. There was even more "saturation" than in the picture, very cool. Very glad it's Christmas time as it's the only time she takes them off! :lol:


1702454526501.png



1702454483485.png

This is some CZ taken from some earrings. The stones had visible scratches and no visible hearts. Pretty clear difference may be due to the inferior cut. No "beams"

1702454446087.png

The best video I can find explaining how this "flood vs spotlight" effect plays out IRL is this (@8mins they start comparing) -
Generally the "floodier" beams produce more consistent constant flashes whereas spotlight/"laser light" produces highly contrasting on-off flashes. It's entirely possible I'm just a big idiot who's completely misinterpreting the "test".

The shade thrown by average jeweller regarding the real world durability of moissy, convinced me of the superiority of diamond as a stone, especially for an E-ring.


Great post Rockdiamond

Hope some of you find this informative/interesting.
 
The impact on the natural diamond market is clear. And it highlights Rappaports loss of influence.
Generally speaking dealers have always used the “Rap Sheet” to price their diamonds B2B- generally expressed as the percentage below the Rap Sheet.
Generally 20-30% discount was average. Prices have risen and fallen at times. Rap has always adjusted the prices on his list to reflect the actual market.
He hasn’t lowered the list in months and now the average discount is 40%+-
He’s losing touch
 
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