Thinking about rubies

[leukolenos]

I’ve been casually browsing rubies for a while thinking of doing a right hand ring to commemorate my July babies. I think my dream ring would be an oval or elongated cushion ruby in an old cut cluster/halo. I’ve tried to study up on ruby color, treatments etc but still don’t feel super confident in making any selection.

Do you think it would be better to look for an antique piece to purchase or to hunt for a ruby and then custom commission a repro setting?

 

[Bron357]

One of the problems with antique or vintage rings is that the ruby is likely to be synthetic. They were very popular in their day (and expensive back then). Nothing wrong with them except you don’t want to pay “ruby price” for “synthetic”. Ask for certification.
I’ve got a few myself rubies (long story) but I’ve never “bought” one as a loose stone. However, the benefit with buying loose from a reputable vendor is that you will be getting a ruby and you can choose your size and shape that suits the ring you want made.
Rubies can cost hundreds of dollars or tens of thousands of dollars! If you’re spending a lot you want certification.
You don’t want to buy from online vendors who aren’t recommended. The world is full of glass filled, beryllium treated and very believable “synthetics”.
And good rubies can cost more than diamonds!
I’m a July baby myself, here’s my ruby ring I inherited from my grandma cos I’m a July baby

 

[leukolenos]

One of the problems with antique or vintage rings is that the ruby is likely to be synthetic. They were very popular in their day (and expensive back then). Nothing wrong with them except you don’t want to pay “ruby price” for “synthetic”. Ask for certification.
I’ve got a few myself rubies (long story) but I’ve never “bought” one as a loose stone. However, the benefit with buying loose from a reputable vendor is that you will be getting a ruby and you can choose your size and shape that suits the ring you want made.
Rubies can cost hundreds of dollars or tens of thousands of dollars! If you’re spending a lot you want certification.
You don’t want to buy from online vendors who aren’t recommended. The world is full of glass filled, beryllium treated and very believable “synthetics”.
And good rubies can cost more than diamonds!
I’m a July baby myself, here’s my ruby ring I inherited from my grandma cos I’m a July baby

I love your ring @Bron357 !
You know, I’ve only really seen a few synthetics in my browsing, and most of the ones I’ve seen are coming with reputable lab reports, but that may be the price point I’ve been looking at as well. There seems to be such huge variations in pricing and I don’t trust myself to be able to suss out what’s sane and what’s not.

 

[arkieb1]

Make sure anything you buy either comes with a reliable lab report or make sure the vendor is willing to refund if the stone is not as describe. Without a lab it is often difficult to detect the level of treatment in rubies and therefore have a clear indication of their value.

 

[T L]

Rubies and padparadcha are the two gemstones I do not own. The ones I really love are out of my pricerange, and they really need comprehensive reliable lab work if you're spending a great deal. Even if you're not spending much, you don't want to end up with dyed, diffused or lead glass filled material.

 

[leukolenos]

Thank you @T L and @arkieb1. I would definitely not buy anything without a reputable lab report! Part of me wants to be on the "safe" side and search for no-heat stones, however I don't want to artificially limit myself by excluding what could be a perfectly nice heat-only stone.

Ok, so here's an example of two that I have browsed- both are AGL no heat- however one has a note of minor/oil in fissures. How bad is that? I haven't read about oil in rubies. They are only .01 ct apart in weight and are close in face up size, just about the same weight in diamonds... but one is about $4000 more expensive than the other.
#1 is 1.21, with the oil note and the more expensive one
#2 is 1.20 and cheaper
Is this purely color driven? Or something else?

 

[T L]

Thank you @T L and @arkieb1. I would definitely not buy anything without a reputable lab report! Part of me wants to be on the "safe" side and search for no-heat stones, however I don't want to artificially limit myself by excluding what could be a perfectly nice heat-only stone.

Ok, so here's an example of two that I have browsed- both are AGL no heat- however one has a note of minor/oil in fissures. How bad is that? I haven't read about oil in rubies. They are only .01 ct apart in weight and are close in face up size, just about the same weight in diamonds... but one is about $4000 more expensive than the other.
#1 is 1.21, with the oil note and the more expensive one
#2 is 1.20 and cheaper
Is this purely color driven? Or something else?

If the photos are accurate, I would save my money and look elsewhere. Those are not very attractive stones. By the way, heated rubies are almost always fissure treated/ clarity enhanced. It depends on the amount and type of treatment and if it's stable.

 

[leukolenos]

If the photos are accurate, I would save my money and look elsewhere. Those are not very attractive stones. By the way, heated rubies are almost always fissure treated/ clarity enhanced. It depends on the amount and type of treatment and if it's stable.

Thanks TL. I’m not really consider buying either of those, I’m just trying to understand the cost differential in examples I’m seeing- even with seemingly similar stones/rings, the cost seems all over the place.

I’m quickly coming to terms with the idea of buying a loose stone and paying for a custom setting!

 

[T L]

Thanks TL. I’m not really consider buying either of those, I’m just trying to understand the cost differential in examples I’m seeing- even with seemingly similar stones/rings, the cost seems all over the place.

I’m quickly coming to terms with the idea of buying a loose stone and paying for a custom setting!

You're seeing different costs all over the place because the colored stone business is not regulated, and vendors can charge whatever they want. That's why educational consumer forums like this exist.

It's always better to buy the stone loose and then set it later, especially a real valuable stone like a ruby.

 

[leukolenos]

You're seeing different costs all over the place because the colored stone business is not regulated, and vendors can charge whatever they want. That's why educational consumer forums like this exist.

It's always better to buy the stone loose and then set it later, especially a real valuable stone like a ruby.

Man no kidding! I feel confident screening diamonds myself but this is a whole different ball of wax as they say. It’s so nerve wracking!

 

[Bron357]

I have acquired some loose rubies and have recently spend quite some time researching colour, clarity and pricing as two are “chipped” and will require rehab. I wanted to know if it was worth the expense.
Well, you can buy rubies from $3 on eBay to $245,000 on James Allen!
It is a fascinating and complex world, like diamonds you have carat, colour and clarity but in rubies you also have treatments and origin that dramatically affect the price. And there’s no “measurement parameters” to ascertain how it might look in person (as you can get for diamonds).
The big price “drivers” are “unheated”, “Burma” and over 2 carats it seems.
Heated are common, but still not exactly cheap, what you obviously want to avoid is “glass filled” as this creates stability issues (and are basically worthless gems). Beryllium treated is more common now but not exactly an “approved” process and the price you pay should reflect that.
I guess it comes down to what you want size wise and how much you want to spend.
If it was me and I was spending less than $1,000 on a 1 carat ruby, I would make sure it wasn’t glass filled but would expect it to be Beryllium treated. However if I was paying $2,000 plus I’d be wanting a proper report that discloses all treatment. If I was spending $10,000 plus the report would have to say “no evidence of heat” origin “Burma”!
And as for colours, I’m currently still trying to appreciate at what point a “pink/ red sapphire” turns into a “pink/ ring ruby”!
My personal preference is for either the deep bright red (most expensive!) or the pink/ red (more affordable) colours.

 

[leukolenos]

I have acquired some loose rubies and have recently spend quite some time researching colour, clarity and pricing as two are “chipped” and will require rehab. I wanted to know if it was worth the expense.
Well, you can buy rubies from $3 on eBay to $245,000 on James Allen!
It is a fascinating and complex world, like diamonds you have carat, colour and clarity but in rubies you also have treatments and origin that dramatically affect the price. And there’s no “measurement parameters” to ascertain how it might look in person (as you can get for diamonds).
The big price “drivers” are “unheated”, “Burma” and over 2 carats it seems.
Heated are common, but still not exactly cheap, what you obviously want to avoid is “glass filled” as this creates stability issues (and are basically worthless gems). Beryllium treated is more common now but not exactly an “approved” process and the price you pay should reflect that.
I guess it comes down to what you want size wise and how much you want to spend.
If it was me and I was spending less than $1,000 on a 1 carat ruby, I would make sure it wasn’t glass filled but would expect it to be Beryllium treated. However if I was paying $2,000 plus I’d be wanting a proper report that discloses all treatment. If I was spending $10,000 plus the report would have to say “no evidence of heat” origin “Burma”!
And as for colours, I’m currently still trying to appreciate at what point a “pink/ red sapphire” turns into a “pink/ ring ruby”!
My personal preference is for either the deep bright red (most expensive!) or the pink/ red (more affordable) colours.

Yes i find the color issue difficult! I’ve been following your other thread about this as well as researching past threads and other materials trying to understand it all better.

I think for me it has to read red enough to say “ruby” to the casual observer. Even some of the really pricey ones seem so pink to me.

It would be awesome to get 2ct but I think it I would then have to trade off on heat. I don’t feel super fussed about origin, though I know some are. It’s hard to decide what the trade offs are going to be!

I’ve spent too long tonight browsing Gemfix and Wildfish

 

[Seaglow]

Ok, so here's an example of two that I have browsed- both are AGL no heat- however one has a note of minor/oil in fissures. How bad is that? I haven't read about oil in rubies.

Many cutter use oil to clean the dop off the stones after cutting. Some leave some oil in the container or a pouch, and some soak them overnight. If the stones have surface reaching features, oil can seep in or remain in fissures enough to be detected by a lab.

Yes i find the color issue difficult! I’ve been following your other thread about this as well as researching past threads and other materials trying to understand it all better.

I think for me it has to read red enough to say “ruby” to the casual observer. Even some of the really pricey ones seem so pink to me.

Ruby is one of those stones that are difficult to photograph and capture the actual color. When I photograph rubies (no fancy camera, and I don't adjust or use filters), they either appear more brown, or pink, or more purple or orange in the photo.

I have a stone that is vivid red but appears orangy in photos and a pinkish red that appears pink in the photo. Rubies you have to see in person also to make sure they don't bleed in most lighting conditions.

Lately I have been going for unheated stones most of the time. The treatments will become more sophisticated with time and with it, I can only see the price gap widen. I have seen corundum price gap evolve from 10%, to 30%, and now most dealers give a price gap of 60%.

 

[Bron357]

Yes, I agree, I think if you can find and afford unheated buy them while you can as they are a limited commodity.

 

[Burmesedaze]

I am still trying to find a decent crystal ruby of around 2ct (face up), unheated, not too many unbearable inclusions and not too dark. I'm even fine with Monghsu rubies if they meet the above criteria. At an acceptable price (i.e. well under US$10K). It's been almost 3 years in Yangon for me and still no cigar

 

[T L]

I am still trying to find a decent crystal ruby of around 2ct (face up), unheated, not too many unbearable inclusions and not too dark. I'm even fine with Monghsu rubies if they meet the above criteria. At an acceptable price (i.e. well under US$10K). It's been almost 3 years in Yangon for me and still no cigar

It took Richard Burton years to find the perfect Ruby for his then wife, Liz Taylor. We're talking unlimited funds as well. It's always better to be really picky about rubies, since many of them are overpriced and unattractive. However, there is nothing more beautiful than a truly fine ruby.

 

[Sagebrush]

Burmesedaze,

Sound like you are pursuing the impossible dream. Last trip to Burma I was being asked stateside prices. Unheated Mongshu stones are often overly purplish. You will probably have better luck with Mozambique, some of which will stand toe to toe with the best Burma, but "well under 10k"? Good luck!

RWW

 

[Burmesedaze]

Burmesedaze,

Sound like you are pursuing the impossible dream. Last trip to Burma I was being asked stateside prices. Unheated Mongshu stones are often overly purplish. You will probably have better luck with Mozambique, some of which will stand toe to toe with the best Burma, but "well under 10k"? Good luck!

RWW

Haha I know it's incredible how crazy the prices go here for someone not in trade and a foreigner. Throw in 'embassy' and the prices swell again. I'm open to Mozambican ones too. But it's fun to set a "target" and I'm perfectly fine not meeting it. There are other things to collect in Burma like art pieces

 

[leukolenos]

I am still trying to find a decent crystal ruby of around 2ct (face up), unheated, not too many unbearable inclusions and not too dark. I'm even fine with Monghsu rubies if they meet the above criteria. At an acceptable price (i.e. well under US$10K). It's been almost 3 years in Yangon for me and still no cigar

Aim high, Burmese! Hopefully one day you'll surprise us all with (another) great find!

It took Richard Burton years to find the perfect Ruby for his then wife, Liz Taylor. We're talking unlimited funds as well. It's always better to be really picky about rubies, since many of them are overpriced and unattractive. However, there is nothing more beautiful than a truly fine ruby.

Her stone was the stuff of dreams! Theoretically I am OK with being picky and biding my time since I don't have a timeline to work to, but I do love a project! However I will probably never own one that is truly fine given my...shall we say, less than unlimited budget

Burmesedaze,

Sound like you are pursuing the impossible dream. Last trip to Burma I was being asked stateside prices. Unheated Mongshu stones are often overly purplish. You will probably have better luck with Mozambique, some of which will stand toe to toe with the best Burma, but "well under 10k"? Good luck!

RWW

Always love reading your perspective Sagebrush! There have been a few stones from Mozambique that I have really liked the look of. I definitely have a champagne taste and beer budget problem... Ok well maybe sparkling wine budget. $10k is starting to feel downright affordable. Unfortunately my husband does not agree

 

[T L]

However I will probably never own one that is truly fine given my...shall we say, less than unlimited budget

You and me both!

 

[Seaglow]

+1 for Mozambique. Many nice stones which are lower than Burmese origin prices. Also more red than most Burmese in the market.

You may want to take a look though at Madagascan or Tanzanian to save cost. Mozambique origin are now sold by some dealers at a premium compared to other locations.

Last time I saw a very nice 3 carat ruby, a bit on the shallow side (as most rubies are) and with a tinge of purple but very nice because of high transparency and high clarity was a Mozambique in a Hongkong store with a price tag of USD65,000.

 

[Burmesedaze]

Or maybe finding a generous husband like Richard Burton.

Both ARE rather impossible dreams lol

 

[Bron357]

I am still trying to find a decent crystal ruby of around 2ct (face up), unheated, not too many unbearable inclusions and not too dark. I'm even fine with Monghsu rubies if they meet the above criteria. At an acceptable price (i.e. well under US$10K). It's been almost 3 years in Yangon for me and still no cigar

Well, if all goes well with my little beauties, I’ll let you know if I’m selling any.

 

[leukolenos]

Or maybe finding a generous husband like Richard Burton.

Both ARE rather impossible dreams lol

lol right!! must send my husband to the richard burton finishing school for men

Well, if all goes well with my little beauties, I’ll let you know if I’m selling any.

yes let me know too!

are red spinel less complicated?! maybe I need one of those instead

 

[T L]

Red spinel are much less complicated as far as treatment is concerned, (beware of synthetics though). However, reds that rival a fine ruby are also very rare and pricey. The best ones should also fluoresce.

These Mogok "Jedi red" spinels come closest to ruby IMO. Many red spinels color shift to a more orange or brownish color in artificial light, so consider that as well.

 

[leukolenos]

Red spinel are much less complicated as far as treatment is concerned, (beware of synthetics though). However, reds that rival a fine ruby are also very rare and pricey. The best ones should also fluoresce.

These Mogok "Jedi red" spinels come closest to ruby IMO.

Wow those are fantastic! So vibrant!

 

[Burmesedaze]

Red spinel are much less complicated as far as treatment is concerned, (beware of synthetics though). However, reds that rival a fine ruby are also very rare and pricey. The best ones should also fluoresce.

These Mogok "Jedi red" spinels come closest to ruby IMO. Many red spinels color shift to a more orange or brownish color in artificial light, so consider that as well.

I'm in love

 

[SparkliesLuver]

I too think about rubies from time to time but I do not own one. Not sure I ever will. Anyhow, I do visit this one quite often and wonder what it looks like IRL.

1.053cts
6.37 x 5.11 x 3.62mm
Untreated (comes with AGL GemBrief)
https://www.etsy.com/listing/492441610/105ct-unheated-red-ruby-cushion?ref=shop_home_active_8

 

[leukolenos]

I too think about rubies from time to time but I do not own one. Not sure I ever will. Anyhow, I do visit this one quite often and wonder what it looks like IRL.

1.053cts
6.37 x 5.11 x 3.62mm
Untreated (comes with AGL GemBrief)
https://www.etsy.com/listing/492441610/105ct-unheated-red-ruby-cushion?ref=shop_home_active_8

I have looked at that one too and wondered about it!!!

 

[SparkliesLuver]

I have looked at that one too and wondered about it!!!

haha I'm super curious to see it in person but the timing just hasn't worked out. I need to focus on setting my loose stones, not acquiring more!