Trust but Verify…Wish It Wasn’t Necessary

[Mrsz1ppy]

Just wanted to tell a story of some recent experiences. I’ve been buying a lot since March of this year, so this may be simply a numbers thing, but still don’t want it to happen to anyone else here on PS.

Twice I bought a corundum on eBay this spring—one a ruby, one an unheated green sapphire. I sent both to AGL for GemBriefs (along with 15 other items in total). First one was a lab ruby, and the second was heated. The first vendor gave me my money back; the second apologized and refunded the cert cost too. Today I heard back from GIA about an unheated peri sapphire I bought from Instagram from a recommended vendor. When I took the stone to my jeweler, the weight was wrong—0.96 ct for a 1.25 listed stone. The vendor offered me my money back or a partial refund at that point. I said I’d keep it if it certed as unheated because I liked the color. Today I got a heads up from GIA that it is a blue zoisite. I believe the vendor I bought from trusted her supplier, and her supplier did her wrong. But I would have been stuck had I not checked.

Sometimes I am challenged on PS for getting certs but so far I have no regrets.

 

[bright&shiny]

This is such a good lesson for us all! Thank you for sharing!

 

[VividRed]

Just wanted to tell a story of some recent experiences. I’ve been buying a lot since March of this year, so this may be simply a numbers thing, but still don’t want it to happen to anyone else here on PS.

Twice I bought a corundum on eBay this spring—one a ruby, one an unheated green sapphire. I sent both to AGL for GemBriefs (along with 15 other items in total). First one was a lab ruby, and the second was heated. The first vendor gave me my money back; the second apologized and refunded the cert cost too. Today I heard back from GIA about an unheated peri sapphire I bought from Instagram from a recommended vendor. When I took the stone to my jeweler, the weight was wrong—0.96 ct for a 1.25 listed stone. The vendor offered me my money back or a partial refund at that point. I said I’d keep it if it certed as unheated because I liked the color. Today I got a heads up from GIA that it is a blue zoisite. I believe the vendor I bought from trusted her supplier, and her supplier did her wrong. But I would have been stuck had I not checked.

Sometimes I am challenged on PS for getting certs but so far I have no regrets.

What a rollercoaster!

 

[icy_jade]

Oh definitely. Bought what was supposed to be a gem silica from a recommended seller but it turned out to be not upon certification. Was such a disppointment.

 

[LilAlex]

This is almost like a Dateline or Consumer Reports -- buy a few unvetted gems at auction or IG and see how many are real or as described. Thank you so much for sharing these lessons. Too often we are too lazy or timid to seek independent confirmation.

It is such a wasteland out there -- it has taken a lot of enjoyment out of this. Oh, but all that Tiffany&Co and Cartier stuff is real for sure.

 

[T L]

This is why I avoid corundum. The last time I bought a sapphire was over ten years ago if I remember correctly, and I sent it to AGL.

I think with garnets and some other kinds of gems, you’re okay, but sapphires and especially rubies, really make me nervous. Even spinels make me nervous these days.

However, I just bought an emerald without a lab report, so I was stupid, but lucky. It could have turned out to be a big loss for me. It came back as natural and the correct gem weight. We get caught up in the excitement of the purchase, but verification of highly treated and/or commonly synthesized or simulated gems, is important.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Oh definitely. Bought what was supposed to be a gem silica from a recommended seller but it turned out to be not upon certification. Was such a disppointment.

What was it Icy?

Isn't it a relatively plentiful gem? I know nothing about gem silica!

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Oh definitely. Bought what was supposed to be a gem silica from a recommended seller but it turned out to be not upon certification. Was such a disppointment.

was it that Taiwanese gem silica i am in love with ?

 

[JewelledEscalators]

Wow, that's bad. I can't say I've had that kind of experience, but then again I haven't purchased any expensive fine gemstone jewellery from Ebay as yet.

 

[T L]

I think gem silica is dyed too, so you have to be aware of not just simulant, but treatment.

 

[marymm]

I had an unheated pink sapphire come back heated -- vendor refunded in full including cert costs

I had a flux ruby come back glass composite ruby -- too much time had passed and I chose not to contact vendor

I had a red spinel come back an untreated/unheated ruby -- this was an unexpected twist and quite a happy surprise!

 

[Rfisher]

Due diligence & trust but verify
Nothing wrong with having those for a motto!

Thank you for sharing your experiences -
I’m glad you have picked vendor’s that have reimbursed you and didn’t disappear!

I know I have asked reasons for getting additional lab reports on stones - but it was an honest curious question.
Hope you didn’t take that as ‘challenging’ you.

 

[JewelledEscalators]

The only issue is that lab certs have gotten so expensive - at least here in the UK.

 

[Cinders]

Oh definitely. Bought what was supposed to be a gem silica from a recommended seller but it turned out to be not upon certification. Was such a disppointment.

What was it? I really want a large gem silica cab---it's such a shame that it has been harder to find lately.

 

[Rfisher]

What was it? I really want a large gem silica cab---it's such a shame that it has been harder to find lately.

Stuff like this one is hard to find out there. (Almost opaque and grainy looking - easier to find)

2.8ct Arizona Gem Silica, Ray Mine - Missouri River Sapphire

Blue Green Gem Silica Cabochon from Ray Mine in Arizona, USA, natural durable quartz for daily wear, ringstone

missouririversapphire.co

Nothing compared to thousands of dollars per carat gems, but, Yeah- I think I’d want to know lab report on it, if it were mine.

Sorry for threadjack OP!

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

Due diligence & trust but verify
Nothing wrong with having those for a motto!

Thank you for sharing your experiences -
I’m glad you have picked vendor’s that have reimbursed you and didn’t disappear!

I know I have asked reasons for getting additional lab reports on stones - but it was an honest curious question.
Hope you didn’t take that as ‘challenging’ you.

No worries. Impossible to judge tone with the short burst that replies generally are, so I try not to!

I have experienced two sharp declines in my personal economic situation that coincided with a macro slump—1989 and 2008. One was my father’s and the other my first husband. I still had a wedding to pay for and then children to educate so I learned what happens when you sell. In the US GIA and AGL are the only certificates that don’t get challenged. Buyers will discount your stones if you have other lab reports. I personally like/trust the Swiss labs and Lotus too. Corundum is pink or a ruby depending on which side of the table you are sitting.

My first husband collected antique swords. The first time he bought one, I gave him the name of an appraiser to verify the description. He didn’t, probably because it was a relatively small $1000 purchase. However, he developed a passion for edged weapons, and ended up spending into the 6 figures with this dealer over 10 years. When my husband needed to sell, he found out that they were composites or ‘marriages’ as they are called in the trade, and worth very little.

Nobody does well at sales if they are not a ‘people person.’ The person on the other side of the table is good at making you feel comfortable and trusting.

I enjoying hunting for my wish list but I try really hard not to fall in love until I get independent confirmation of what I have bought. PS has helped me be a better buyer and I just want to give back.

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

Stuff like this one is hard to find out there. (Almost opaque and grainy looking - easier to find)

2.8ct Arizona Gem Silica, Ray Mine - Missouri River Sapphire

Blue Green Gem Silica Cabochon from Ray Mine in Arizona, USA, natural durable quartz for daily wear, ringstone

missouririversapphire.co

Nothing compared to thousands of dollars per carat gems, but, Yeah- I think I’d want to know lab report on it, if it were mine.

Sorry for threadjack OP!

It’s an important topic that isn’t discussed much. Threadjack away!

 

[minousbijoux]

@Mrsz1ppy: thank you for this thread. A great reminder to us all. The lesson I get from this is that you have obviously done a great job vetting vendors. I know it's no accident that you buy from vendors who all so willingly honored their commitment to making it right. Good for you!

 

[JewelledEscalators]

Out of interest, when people found they were sold something different to what was advertised, were they paying market rates/near enough market rates for these items?

Are these sellers ones who also have online/physical shops outside of ebay? Have you had this happen also with sellers on Etsy?

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

Out of interest, when people found they were sold something different to what was advertised, were they paying market rates/near enough market rates for these items?

Are these sellers ones who also have online/physical shops outside of ebay? Have you had this happen also with sellers on Etsy?

That is an excellent question, about market rates. That is exactly how grifters justify their behaviour. My husband is retired from a career as a Counselor in juvenile corrections. According to his clients’ thinking, if you leave your door unlocked, you asked to be burgled—it’s not their fault, it is yours.

Yes, one of the items I bought this year was an auction buy on eBay from a seller who is traded on the stock market and has over 138,000 feedbacks. It was a ‘deal’ if it was a ruby but daylight robbery if it was a lab ruby. It was sold as a ruby. They did not offer to pay for the cert, by the way, but they did give me my money back. No surprise or apology. They also block you from buying from them if you leave honest feedback, btw. If you remove it, they unblock you. I am very curious to see how eBay’s new Gia authentication process will effect their business model. Will they stay on eBay? Enquiring minds want to know!

The next situation was from a smaller seller who has 400 listings at a time On eBay. It was a fair price for a less than 1 ct green sapphire with zoning that was unheated, not a screaming hot deal. This seller was genuinely surprised, had trusted his supplier, and wanted to pay for the cert.

The last one this year was on instagram from a seller on the approved vendor list here. No storefront. A fair price, again, for a 1.25 peri Colored unheated sapphire. Again, shock surprise and offer to pay for the cert. Again, I think either a genuine mixup or the supplier is guilty.

So far on Etsy I have bought a small silky sapphire that certed as unheated AGL Gembrief and some cab rubies that also got a prestige report from AGL as unheated. Again, I felt that the prices were fair.

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

This is almost like a Dateline or Consumer Reports -- buy a few unvetted gems at auction or IG and see how many are real or as described. Thank you so much for sharing these lessons. Too often we are too lazy or timid to seek independent confirmation.

It is such a wasteland out there -- it has taken a lot of enjoyment out of this. Oh, but all that Tiffany&Co and Cartier stuff is real for sure.

What is interesting about the big name Jewelers is that they will no longer buy heated/treated colored stones, which tells me that they have! And sold them in the past. Educated consumers do make a difference. It is also telling when I ask a vintage jewelry store if a Colored stone is treated (this is on instagram when I have been to the physical store), after dming for the price, some never respond.

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

The only issue is that lab certs have gotten so expensive - at least here in the UK.

In that case I would find an independent appraiser/gemmologist (I went to school and lived in the UK) and negotiate a price for a description of my purchase. Not an insurance appraisal, but a check that you bought and received what was described. My local Jeweler also told me that her lapidary can tell if a stone is heated, so that could be another avenue.

 

[bright&shiny]

This is almost like a Dateline or Consumer Reports -- buy a few unvetted gems at auction or IG and see how many are real or as described. Thank you so much for sharing these lessons. Too often we are too lazy or timid to seek independent confirmation.

It is such a wasteland out there -- it has taken a lot of enjoyment out of this. Oh, but all that Tiffany&Co and Cartier stuff is real for sure.

That’s a great idea! If I had enough $$$….. I’d be tempted to start this up!

 

[CaseyLouLou]

That is an excellent question, about market rates. That is exactly how grifters justify their behaviour. My husband is retired from a career as a Counselor in juvenile corrections. According to his clients’ thinking, if you leave your door unlocked, you asked to be burgled—it’s not their fault, it is yours.

Yes, one of the items I bought this year was an auction buy on eBay from a seller who is traded on the stock market and has over 138,000 feedbacks. It was a ‘deal’ if it was a ruby but daylight robbery if it was a lab ruby. It was sold as a ruby. They did not offer to pay for the cert, by the way, but they did give me my money back. No surprise or apology. They also block you from buying from them if you leave honest feedback, btw. If you remove it, they unblock you. I am very curious to see how eBay’s new Gia authentication process will effect their business model. Will they stay on eBay? Enquiring minds want to know!

The next situation was from a smaller seller who has 400 listings at a time On eBay. It was a fair price for a less than 1 ct green sapphire with zoning that was unheated, not a screaming hot deal. This seller was genuinely surprised, had trusted his supplier, and wanted to pay for the cert.

The last one this year was on instagram from a seller on the approved vendor list here. No storefront. A fair price, again, for a 1.25 peri Colored unheated sapphire. Again, shock surprise and offer to pay for the cert. Again, I think either a genuine mixup or the supplier is guilty.

So far on Etsy I have bought a small silky sapphire that certed as unheated AGL Gembrief and some cab rubies that also got a prestige report from AGL as unheated. Again, I felt that the prices were fair.

Did any of these come with a cert from another, less prestigious lab?

 

[CaseyLouLou]

What is interesting about the big name Jewelers is that they will no longer buy heated/treated colored stones, which tells me that they have! And sold them in the past. Educated consumers do make a difference. It is also telling when I ask a vintage jewelry store if a Colored stone is treated (this is on instagram when I have been to the physical store), after dming for the price, some never respond.

I hate shopping on Instagram. I wish everyone would just boycott that platform and insist on only buying from places with a return policy or at least PayPal protection.

 

[T L]

I hate shopping on Instagram. I wish everyone would just boycott that platform and insist on only buying from places with a return policy or at least PayPal protection.

Lots of eye Candy, but I avoid shopping on there unless the vendor has a link to Etsy, eBay, or a reputable website. This “DM me for price” and buying based on no reviews, makes me uncomfortable.

 

[AnastasiaBeaverhausen]

It is also telling when I ask a vintage jewelry store if a Colored stone is treated (this is on instagram when I have been to the physical store), after dming for the price, some never respond.

Right?? Another pet peeve of mine is when I ask what treatment level does the stone have and they come back with, "It's a natural gem." I'm not sure if they're avoiding the question or if they genuinely think they're are the same thing. Either way, doesn't inspire a lot of confidence.

*edited for grammar

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

Did any of these come with a cert from another, less prestigious lab?

No. I have re-certed less well known labs, and only once has a stone come back as heated. It was a ruby I wrote about in March.

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

That’s a great idea! If I had enough $$$….. I’d be tempted to start this up!

We could do a YouTube channel! or TikTok….I’m dating myself ; )

 

[icy_jade]

What was it Icy?

Isn't it a relatively plentiful gem? I know nothing about gem silica!

was it that Taiwanese gem silica i am in love with ?

I think gem silica is dyed too, so you have to be aware of not just simulant, but treatment.

It cost nearly 1.2k so I would say it wasn’t a cheap buy.

I had purchased what was described to be an “exceptional untreated gem silica” from a highly recommended PS seller’s website. My trusted local laboratory has identified it to be a dyed quartzite instead.

Vendor pic:


Was refunded quite promptly but still out of pocket for taxes and the cert cost so it left a bad taste in my mouth from future purchases from that vendor.

So… Buyer beware! Not just the IG sellers that are dodgy. In fact so far I’ve been lucky so far for my various IG buys. All certed out ok. Unheated, type A, etc etc.