Trustworthy gem reports?

[Autumn in New England]

You write, unaccredited. Unaccredited to who, the GIA, or other major American, European, or Thai labs? The world just does not revolve around them, though people in many first world countries do, and that is fine, I have no problem with that.

Unaccredited as in there's no oversight. I have no idea what education, qualifications, or experience their director (or staff "gemologists") have. I also have no idea what instruments are used.... or if they're truly objective. For instance, the GIA, Gubelin, and SSEF are overseen by the LMHC, which upholds standards. AGL is a member of ICA and AGTA. Now I'm not saying a lab outside of those parameters cannot be great (or cannot be trusted). But I think we can all agree that accountability matters, not just to maintain quality, but to keep us honest.

Wishing you well too, always!!

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

All of this just supports my instinct. I look for what speaks to me. I recently bought what to me was a gorgeous silky cobalty blue sapphire. I bought it an upscale pawn shop, took it to an appraiser within the ‘look’ period. The appraiser told me it was a sapphire but heated, and not top color.

It was to me, being what speaks to me, a emotional purchase. Not practical, at $1000/ct, for a silky heated sapphire.

AGL said it was unheated from Madagascar. It’s my second one that reported as such.

I think origin is ever evolving, and Madagascar is a top origin in my book.

Attached are my 2 unheated Madagascar from AGL sapphires. My avatar is a Kashmir.

 

[Autumn in New England]

@fredflintstone I would love to know (and I'll never be able to find out so it's moot) how many gems a Gemologist at the much lauded AGL sees verses the Gemologist in some back water lab closer to the source.

Which then also raises the question, are all GIAs and GRS offices equal?

How far do you take it? Do you then fly to the holy grail destination to get a report for your stone because the office in Asia is undesirable by comparison? You could potentially keep raising the bar.

I think the intimidating thing for newbies is when you're new, you first learn not to buy at the mall. Then you go read stuff online and it opens a crazy new can of worms.

I remember fussing over my diamonds back in the diamond forum when everyone was banging on about cuts etc. ACAs were the platinum standard.

Got myself an ACA bangle, love it, wear it heaps, nothing wrong with it but after a few years and many many many more gems and settings, I personally don't think it's worth the ho hum, especially for smaller sized stones.

I guess the challenge for many newbies is to get to the point where they're confident with the decisions they make and the risks they take.

That's a good question and I know it's directed to fred, but I wanted to share my perspective. You know how J.K. Simmons in the Farmers commercials says, "we know a thing or two, because we've seen a thing or two." I think the same can be said for any G.G. employed by a major lab. They're standardized and harmonized to minimize that exact issue, so that the quality of GIA Bangkok's services is similar to that of GIA Carlsbad. To get to that position, you must have the experience and exposure. I'm sure the staff at some of these provincial labs does too, maybe even more so, and that's not without merit. But it's not everything. Education (and continuing education) is important. Training is important. Oversight is important. Neutrality is important. Access to instrumentation is important. Consistency is important. And the transparency of all of those aspects is likewise important. That being said, the best way for collectors, newbies or veterans, to arm themselves against risk is to be informed. Keep an ear to the street in these gem capitals, yes, but also rely on authoritative sources. I also think a bit of skepticism in this industry is healthy.

 

[Autumn in New England]

The appraiser told me it was a sapphire but heated, and not top color.

AGL said it was unheated from Madagascar. It’s my second one that reported as such.

I have very little regard or use for appraisers (aside from possible insurance requirements). I'm glad AGL confirmed your "gut."

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

I also think a bit of skepticism in this industry is healthy.

So so so true!!!

And be mindful of where to direct that skepticism too.

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

I have very little regard or use for appraisers (aside from possible insurance requirements). I'm glad AGL confirmed your "gut."

I must agree with you. The other sapphire turned out to be BE treated, and he totally missed that.

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

That's a good question and I know it's directed to fred, but I wanted to share my perspective. You know how J.K. Simmons in the Farmers commercials says, "we know a thing or two, because we've seen a thing or two." I think the same can be said for any G.G. employed by a major lab. They're standardized and harmonized to minimize that exact issue, so that the quality of GIA Bangkok's services is similar to that of GIA Carlsbad. To get to that position, you must have the experience and exposure. I'm sure the staff at some of these provincial labs does too, maybe even more so, and that's not without merit. But it's not everything. Education (and continuing education) is important. Training is important. Oversight is important. Neutrality is important. Access to instrumentation is important. Consistency is important. And the transparency of all of those aspects is likewise important. That being said, the best way for collectors, newbies or veterans, to arm themselves against risk is to be informed. Keep an ear to the street in these gem capitals, yes, but also rely on authoritative sources. I also think a bit of skepticism in this industry is healthy.

Yes. And recently I have heard whispers of tourmalines being treated with copper…and labs missing it. I am not buying Paraibas at the moment and hope I am wrong…but where are all of these rare stones on instagram coming from?

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Yes. And recently I have heard whispers of tourmalines being treated with copper…and labs missing it. I am not buying Paraibas at the moment and hope I am wrong…but where are all of these rare stones on instagram coming from?

Omg I was just asking myself this the other day!

A well known vendor had trays and trays of gems. Not just paraiba but a heap of other supposedly rare for stuff too.

I was more thinking that maybe they're not that rare and it's all a big lie concocted by the industry to charge people inflated prices.

But your theory works too!

 

[Autumn in New England]

Yes. And recently I have heard whispers of tourmalines being treated with copper…and labs missing it. I am not buying Paraibas at the moment and hope I am wrong…but where are all of these rare stones on instagram coming from?

I hadn't heard this, so you know I have to go google it now!

 

[Autumn in New England]

I couldn't find any info on it, but these initial "rumblings" often lead to eventual revelations of new enhancements. I hope it's not true, but won't be surprised if it is.

 

[fredflintstone]

@fredflintstone I would love to know (and I'll never be able to find out so it's moot) how many gems a Gemologist at the much lauded AGL sees verses the Gemologist in some back water lab closer to the source.

Which then also raises the question, are all GIAs and GRS offices equal?

How far do you take it? Do you then fly to the holy grail destination to get a report for your stone because the office in Asia is undesirable by comparison? You could potentially keep raising the bar.

I think the intimidating thing for newbies is when you're new, you first learn not to buy at the mall. Then you go read stuff online and it opens a crazy new can of worms.

I remember fussing over my diamonds back in the diamond forum when everyone was banging on about cuts etc. ACAs were the platinum standard.

Got myself an ACA bangle, love it, wear it heaps, nothing wrong with it but after a few years and many many many more gems and settings, I personally don't think it's worth the ho hum, especially for smaller sized stones.

I guess the challenge for many newbies is to get to the point where they're confident with the decisions they make and the risks they take.

Thanks for your comment.


I'm not speaking of "back water" labs and gemologist,

But to answer your question, when you are in a source country or a country like Thailand that brokers much of the world’s gemstones, you are going to see more of those gemstones than the average gemologist at a big well-known lab, just by virtue of proximity.

These big labs get most their leads from smaller labs and locals in source countries. These are the people that live there. These are the people closest to gemstone mining, gemstones, and gemstone treatments. It all starts at the start.

Now, I’m sorry but we and me are beating this subject to death. Please everyone, do what you feel is right for you. I have always for me, though, sometimes, it just doesn’t always pan out, but that’s life.



Goodnight and I wish you all well!

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

I couldn't find any info on it, but these initial "rumblings" often lead to eventual revelations of new enhancements. I hope it's not true, but won't be surprised if it is.

I'm so glad that paraiba is one of those things I peaced out on! One less thing to try and pursue.

I keep wanting to buy Spess

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I would like to support Fred.
There are many experts without formal training who can through their huge depth of experience handling gems. Often very specific narrow ranges of gems species.
They will say "this doesn't feel right" and things like that.
They might then send that stone to a lab and their "feeling" is confirmed by a scientist.
Then you have local labs that see thousands of sapphires, say, and they know this is not from XXX, and must be from YYY. They then set out to find the evidence and don't waste time doing other tests. As a student gemmologist that is how I got my distinction. Just do the tests required in the exam and explain why you didn't bother with the other 3 tests.

 

[fredflintstone]

I would like to support Fred.
There are many experts without formal training who can through their huge depth of experience handling gems. Often very specific narrow ranges of gems species.
They will say "this doesn't feel right" and things like that.
They might then send that stone to a lab and their "feeling" is confirmed by a scientist.
Then you have local labs that see thousands of sapphires, say, and they know this is not from XXX, and must be from YYY. They then set out to find the evidence and don't waste time doing other tests. As a student gemmologist that is how I got my distinction. Just do the tests required in the exam and explain why you didn't bother with the other 3 tests.

Thank you, Gary!

 

[Autumn in New England]

At the end of the day, it behooves trade members to have a broader tolerance in this respect. And it behooves collectors to have a narrower tolerance. So it makes sense that you're both on the same page. And I don't mean that in a negative way! It is what it is. But let's address what originally started this topic... OP, a new poster, told us he/she is buying a stone from India and asked if he/she could rely on a report from "IGITL." Now, we have no idea what he/she is buying at this moment, but it could very well be a valuable sapphire or ruby. So, @Garry H (Cut Nut), would your honest and unbiased advice be, "yep, you're good to go!" Or would you advise him/her that it may be best to have the stone recertified by a major lab, just to err on the side of caution?

 

[fredflintstone]

At the end of the day, it behooves trade members to have a broader tolerance in this respect. And it behooves collectors to have a narrower tolerance. So it makes sense that you're both on the same page. And I don't mean that in a negative way! It is what it is. But let's address what originally started this topic... OP, a new poster, told us he/she is buying a stone from India and asked if he/she could rely on a report from "IGITL." Now, we have no idea what he/she is buying at this moment, but it could very well be a valuable sapphire or ruby. So, @Garry H (Cut Nut), would your honest and unbiased advice be, "yep, you're good to go!" Or would you advise him/her that it may be best to have the stone recertified by a major lab, just to err on the side of caution?

I don't behoove anything with a broader tolerence in mind, Autumn, cannot speak for Gary, other than to say we are/were both professionals and have much more experience with these matters. It is/was how we made/make our livings for decades, day after day.

This is not meant to be condescending, but facts are facts. Do you hire an accountant that is handy with his hands to install a furnace and air conditioner, or do you hire a professional heating and air conditioning contractor? Do you hire the heating and air conditioner contractor to do your taxes or an accountant? Rhetorical but true analogies.

This subject is being beat to death, and I really did not want to comment on it anymore, because there is nothing really left to be said.

Best wishes to you and everyone here, and it is up to each individual whether to use a gem lab or not and which one they feel is best and if members want to suggest a certain gem lab, fine. No more to it than that or less.

 

[Autumn in New England]

This is not meant to be condescending, but facts are facts. Do you hire an accountant that is handy with his hands to install a furnace and air conditioner, or do you hire a professional heating and air conditioning contractor? Do you hire the heating and air conditioner contractor to do your taxes or an accountant? Rhetorical but true analogies.

This kind of proves my point though... no, I hire properly educated and trained folks who are employed by reputable companies I can research, and who I know have the right tools and credentials for the job. I don't hire a handy man who may or may not be great at what he does, but has little accountability because he's not licensed (no oversight or transparency), all based on Joe down the street saying he's "fine." And since we have no idea about those factors with regard to some of these small, provincial labs, I must rely on authoritative sources to lead the way. So, yes, as a buyer, I'd choose a GIA staff G.G. or Gubelin staff G.G. or AGL staff G.G. to evaluate my ruby over someone from "IGITL" any day... every day... all day. I'm surprised that this is even a debatable topic on PS, but here we are. As I said, it benefits sellers to be more tolerant in that respect. It definitely does not benefit me to be more tolerant... I'm taking the risk.

I agree that it's up to each individual to decide which lab is best for them, and we've both made our opinions clear. But when a newbie asks if they should buy a gem from India that is accompanied by a certificate from an office in India with zero transparency that long-time collectors have never heard of, it seems a bit hasty to say "sure!" In my opinion, the prudent thing to do is say "you may want to recertify with an accredited lab." I don't see why that's so unreasonable. And that's where, as you said yourself, being a trade member vs. a collector kicks in. LilAlex put it best... car salesmen and car buyers require differing levels of due diligence. And this is a consumer forum, after all.

You keep saying you wish me well... I hope you understand I, of course, wish you nothing but the best too! Listen, I'm Italian. Debating is in my blood. I don't see this as a personal affront where members need to "support" fred or Autumn. It's a discussion, an important one, where we find ourselves on opposite ends. That's all. It's definitely not my intention to give you a stroke, my friend.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

If I buy a colored stone from india, certified through ‘IGITL’ can I trust that the gem is what they say it is? Would the info on the report be accurate? It seems like a lot of sellers use this lab

Autumn asked if the OP is safe with this lab.
Fred says yes and I would go by his word.
But I can not find their ISO registration number on their website and this makes it hard to confirm they actually have ISO certification as claimed in the banners across the top of every page?
To search here:

ISO CERTIFICATION INDIA: ISO 9001, ISO 14001, OHSAS 18001, ISO 22000, HACCP & CE MARKING

isoindia.org

 

[fredflintstone]

This kind of proves my point though... no, I hire properly educated and trained folks who are employed by reputable companies I can research, and who I know have the right tools and credentials for the job. I don't hire a handy man who may or may not be great at what he does, but has little accountability because he's not licensed (no oversight or transparency), all based on Joe down the street saying he's "fine." And since we have no idea about those factors with regard to some of these small, provincial labs, I must rely on authoritative sources to lead the way. So, yes, as a buyer, I'd choose a GIA staff G.G. or Gubelin staff G.G. or AGL staff G.G. to evaluate my ruby over someone from "IGITL" any day... every day... all day. I'm surprised that this is even a debatable topic on PS, but here we are. As I said, it benefits sellers to be more tolerant in that respect. It definitely does not benefit me to be more tolerant... I'm taking the risk.

I agree that it's up to each individual to decide which lab is best for them, and we've both made our opinions clear. But when a newbie asks if they should buy a gem from India that is accompanied by a certificate from an office in India with zero transparency that long-time collectors have never heard of, it seems a bit hasty to say "sure!" In my opinion, the prudent thing to do is say "you may want to recertify with an accredited lab." I don't see why that's so unreasonable. And that's where, as you said yourself, being a trade member vs. a collector kicks in. LilAlex put it best... car salesmen and car buyers require differing levels of due diligence. And this is a consumer forum, after all.

You keep saying you wish me well... I hope you understand I, of course, wish you nothing but the best too! Listen, I'm Italian. Debating is in my blood. I don't see this as a personal affront where members need to "support" fred or Autumn. It's a discussion, an important one, where we find ourselves on opposite ends. That's all. It's definitely not my intention to give you a stroke, my friend.

"It definitely does not benefit me to be more tolerant... I'm taking the risk." - Really, and who is committing their life's income to selling and making you happy, by making sure you get what you want. Us sellers have much more invested in the gemstones we sell, not only in monetary spending and income, but more importantly in reputation, which equals monetary survival in the small world that is gemstones sellers.

Think what you want, and you will. It is not really my concern. I'm just here to offer my experience. You can take it at face value or not, but this continuing posturing grows tiresome, even to one one who enjoys it much as me, but I think you enjoy it more. So, I give up. You win. I cannot risk a stroke. Who has the nitro pills?

 

[Autumn in New England]

Autumn asked if the OP is safe with this lab.
Fred says yes and I would go by his word.
But I can not find their ISO registration number on their website and this makes it hard to confirm they actually have ISO certification as claimed in the banners across the top of every page?
To search here:

ISO CERTIFICATION INDIA: ISO 9001, ISO 14001, OHSAS 18001, ISO 22000, HACCP & CE MARKING

isoindia.org

Thank you, Garry. Although an ISO certification doesn't guarantee legitimacy, it would at least help confirm that this "lab" is operating under a certain set of standards. I cannot locate any information whatsoever, including the ISO. So, just for clarity's sake, you do not have any personal experience with "IGITL," correct? Had you heard of them before this thread?

 

[Autumn in New England]

"It definitely does not benefit me to be more tolerant... I'm taking the risk." - Really, and who is committing their life's income to selling and making you happy, by making sure you get what you want. Us sellers have much more invested in the gemstones we sell, not only in monetary spending and income, but more importantly in reputation, which equals monetary survival in the small world that is gemstones sellers.

Think what you want, and you will. It is not really my concern. I'm just here to offer my experience. You can take it at face value or not, but this continuing bantering grows tiresome, even to one one who enjoys it much as me, but I think you enjoy it more. So, I give up. You win. I cannot risk a stroke. Who has the nitro pills?

I can't speak to your motivations, but I genuinely want newbies who may read this thread to be cautious, so they don't have a problem down the line (like so many before them have). And some of the advice here concerns me, so I want to make sure there's a counterpoint for each one. That way folks can read my POV as a collector and yours as a seller, and make an informed decision.

But I can't sit by and silently endorse the suggestion that an office such as "IGITL" functions with the same standards as an AGL or SSEF, simply because a former seller here had good experiences with similar "labs." With all due respect, fred, I have no idea what you used to sell or when. Do you remember the fiasco that happened a few years back when a beloved and trusted long-time vendor with a presence here on PS, sold a very expensive padparadscha to another member, and it turned out to be a new and clever synthetic? She only found out when she had it tested by GIA or AGL (I can't recall which). Kudos to her for doing her due diligence despite the seller's assurance, otherwise we and the vendor may have never known. Reputable sellers make mistakes too, as well-intentioned as they may be. I want to minimize that for everyone.

Watch, after all this, OP was actually buying a $50 amethyst.

 

[Mrsz1ppy]

I can't speak to your motivations, but I genuinely want newbies who may read this thread to be cautious, so they don't have a problem down the line (like so many before them have). And some of the advice here concerns me, so I want to make sure there's a counterpoint for each one. That way folks can read my POV as a collector and yours as a seller, and make an informed decision.

But I can't sit by and silently endorse the suggestion that an office such as "IGITL" functions with the same standards as an AGL or SSEF, simply because a former seller here had good experiences with similar "labs." With all due respect, fred, I have no idea what you used to sell or when. Do you remember the fiasco that happened a few years back when a beloved and trusted long-time vendor with a presence here on PS, sold a very expensive padparadscha to another member, and it turned out to be a new and clever synthetic? She only found out when she had it tested by GIA or AGL (I can't recall which). Kudos to her for doing her due diligence despite the seller's assurance, otherwise we and the vendor may have never known. Reputable sellers make mistakes too, as well-intentioned as they may be. I want to minimize that for everyone.

Watch, after all this, OP was actually buying a $50 amethyst.

How many likes can I give this post!!!

 

[Autumn in New England]

For anyone still interested (lol), this is what Garry was referencing. The "IGITL" lists 9001-2000 as their ISO certification number. ISO certification is a seal of approval from a third-party body, acknowledging that a company is run accordingly to certain international standards developed and published by the International Organization for Standardization (ISO). It's not a quality guarantee, but it certainly helps instill confidence.

 

[Autumn in New England]

How many likes can I give this post!!!

Thank you! I'm sincerely trying to be helpful. Poor fred thinks I exist solely to torture him.

 

[PrecisionGem]

One thing I see is that often people take what the read her to heart, and believe everything written by members here. I have had many people ask me for a "Lab Cert" for stones such as a $150 rhodolite garnet. The read here you should get your stones "certified". This makes no sense for most stones. Sure if you are buying an expensive sapphire where heated or no heat can make a substantial difference in price it makes sense. You don't need to be one of the major labs to identify a rhodolite garnet, or pink tourmaline.
If you are into colored stones, and have a collection of more than a few stones, it may make sense to get a few tools and some knowledge on how to use them. With a refractometer, a program like Gemology Tools Pro, a dichroscope, you can correctly identify most stones. Plus it's fun.

 

[Avondale]

For anyone still interested (lol), this is what Garry was referencing. The "IGITL" lists 9001-2000 as their ISO certification number. ISO certification is a seal of approval from a third-party body, acknowledging that a company is run accordingly to certain international standards developed and published by the International Organization for Standardization (ISO). It's not a quality guarantee, but it certainly helps instill confidence.

Allow me to make a correction here for the sake of accuracy.

9001-2000 is not the certificate number, it's the ISO standard number. The lab does, indeed, state 9001-2000 on it's home page, but the example pictures of their lab reports actually contain 9001-2008. Both of these are actually just different versions of the same standard, which have both been withdrawn as the newest version is 9001-2015.

ISO certificates are issued by accredited private entities, not by the organisation itself. There is no centralised register where all issued certificates are available for search. Each accredited body maintains its own register of clients and certificates issued. And there are thousands of accredited bodies. India alone has 106 companies that will carry out ISO 9001 certification.

So, to start, you couldn't possibly find IGITL's certificate by searching the standard number. And second, you couldn't possibly find it in the system of just one of 106 companies that could've issued this certificate.

The only way to know for sure is to ask the lab for their certificate and then check with the company that's issued it.

In any case, I would say the ISO certification subject is of next to no importance. On one hand, they're probably not updating their website but have the certification. Once it's in place it's relatively easy to maintain, you just go through yearly audits to confirm you still comply to all standards and that's it, the certificate gets re-issued every 2 or 3 years iirc (cba to check one of the contracts right now). On the other hand, ISO 9001 is just a general standard about quality management and control and it can be implemented in literally any field of business. It has nothing specific to do with gems.

So, to summarise - the lab hasn't updated it's ISO certification information on its website but it's highly likely it still maintains it. The ISO standard they're certified for speaks very little as it's just a general system for quality management and control.

 

[JewelledEscalators]

One thing I see is that often people take what the read her to heart, and believe everything written by members here. I have had many people ask me for a "Lab Cert" for stones such as a $150 rhodolite garnet. The read here you should get your stones "certified". This makes no sense for most stones. Sure if you are buying an expensive sapphire where heated or no heat can make a substantial difference in price it makes sense. You don't need to be one of the major labs to identify a rhodolite garnet, or pink tourmaline.
If you are into colored stones, and have a collection of more than a few stones, it may make sense to get a few tools and some knowledge on how to use them. With a refractometer, a program like Gemology Tools Pro, a dichroscope, you can correctly identify most stones. Plus it's fun.

A while back I was selling for a vintage/antique 0.1 carat old cut diamond and gold ring for just over 350 pounds and somebody messaged me to ask if the diamond came with a certificate, because they were skeptical that it might be a CZ.

I told them no, it doesn't come with a cert, as it's not practical to pay for a 150-200 pounds cert for a ring just over 350. I told them they can buy it and take it to their local pawnbroker or jeweller and get them to test it for free or a small fee, and that I offer a money back guarantee in case they didn't want to keep it for any reason. I also told them I purchased it from a well known specialist jewellery auction house and that they have gemmologists there and had sold it as a diamond. It seems they were not convinced (or at leasts they didn't go ahead with the purchase). No doubt they read somewhere like the PS that you MUST ask for a cert for all purchases or otherwise it's suspicous.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

A while back I was selling for a vintage/antique 0.1 carat old cut diamond and gold ring for just over 350 pounds and somebody messaged me to ask if the diamond came with a certificate, because they were skeptical that it might be a CZ.

I told them no, it doesn't come with a cert, as it's not practical to pay for a 150-200 pounds cert for a ring just over 350. I told them they can buy it and take it to their local pawnbroker or jeweller and get them to test it for free or a small fee, and that I offer a money back guarantee in case they didn't want to keep it for any reason. I also told them I purchased it from a well known specialist jewellery auction house and that they have gemmologists there and had sold it as a diamond. It seems they were not convinced (or at leasts they didn't go ahead with the purchase). No doubt they read somewhere like the PS that you MUST ask for a cert for all purchases or otherwise it's suspicous.

You were a good sport about it!!!

I'd be like: Yeah go make a new ring from scratch and that way you can verify all your diamonds.

Haha that's why I don't sell anything second hand and just give stuff away. It would irritate me to death. Let em pay retail!

 

[fredflintstone]

One thing I see is that often people take what the read her to heart, and believe everything written by members here. I have had many people ask me for a "Lab Cert" for stones such as a $150 rhodolite garnet. The read here you should get your stones "certified". This makes no sense for most stones. Sure if you are buying an expensive sapphire where heated or no heat can make a substantial difference in price it makes sense. You don't need to be one of the major labs to identify a rhodolite garnet, or pink tourmaline.
If you are into colored stones, and have a collection of more than a few stones, it may make sense to get a few tools and some knowledge on how to use them. With a refractometer, a program like Gemology Tools Pro, a dichroscope, you can correctly identify most stones. Plus it's fun.

Could not agree more. Same thing happened with me to many times to count with people wanting reports for stones that are easily identified.

Some for a stone that I would tell them by the time you pay for (AGL Brief) pay for shipping there & back, will cost you half the price of the stone. I remember even less expensive stones being asked about for a report.

Labs got to love this. I wrote a little bit on this in a earlier post here.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Allow me to make a correction here for the sake of accuracy.

9001-2000 is not the certificate number, it's the ISO standard number. The lab does, indeed, state 9001-2000 on it's home page, but the example pictures of their lab reports actually contain 9001-2008. Both of these are actually just different versions of the same standard, which have both been withdrawn as the newest version is 9001-2015.

ISO certificates are issued by accredited private entities, not by the organisation itself. There is no centralised register where all issued certificates are available for search. Each accredited body maintains its own register of clients and certificates issued. And there are thousands of accredited bodies. India alone has 106 companies that will carry out ISO 9001 certification.

So, to start, you couldn't possibly find IGITL's certificate by searching the standard number. And second, you couldn't possibly find it in the system of just one of 106 companies that could've issued this certificate.

The only way to know for sure is to ask the lab for their certificate and then check with the company that's issued it.

In any case, I would say the ISO certification subject is of next to no importance. On one hand, they're probably not updating their website but have the certification. Once it's in place it's relatively easy to maintain, you just go through yearly audits to confirm you still comply to all standards and that's it, the certificate gets re-issued every 2 or 3 years iirc (cba to check one of the contracts right now). On the other hand, ISO 9001 is just a general standard about quality management and control and it can be implemented in literally any field of business. It has nothing specific to do with gems.

So, to summarise - the lab hasn't updated it's ISO certification information on its website but it's highly likely it still maintains it. The ISO standard they're certified for speaks very little as it's just a general system for quality management and control.

Thank you, my friend! Good to know!! I've still yet to hear of anyone who's actually dealt directly with this lab though (fred simply googled it and Garry is on board based upon that). So that's far more important to me than any ISO, as you said.