Trustworthy gem reports?

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Allow me to make a correction here for the sake of accuracy.

9001-2000 is not the certificate number, it's the ISO standard number. The lab does, indeed, state 9001-2000 on it's home page, but the example pictures of their lab reports actually contain 9001-2008. Both of these are actually just different versions of the same standard, which have both been withdrawn as the newest version is 9001-2015.

ISO certificates are issued by accredited private entities, not by the organisation itself. There is no centralised register where all issued certificates are available for search. Each accredited body maintains its own register of clients and certificates issued. And there are thousands of accredited bodies. India alone has 106 companies that will carry out ISO 9001 certification.

So, to start, you couldn't possibly find IGITL's certificate by searching the standard number. And second, you couldn't possibly find it in the system of just one of 106 companies that could've issued this certificate.

The only way to know for sure is to ask the lab for their certificate and then check with the company that's issued it.

In any case, I would say the ISO certification subject is of next to no importance. On one hand, they're probably not updating their website but have the certification. Once it's in place it's relatively easy to maintain, you just go through yearly audits to confirm you still comply to all standards and that's it, the certificate gets re-issued every 2 or 3 years iirc (cba to check one of the contracts right now). On the other hand, ISO 9001 is just a general standard about quality management and control and it can be implemented in literally any field of business. It has nothing specific to do with gems.

So, to summarise - the lab hasn't updated it's ISO certification information on its website but it's highly likely it still maintains it. The ISO standard they're certified for speaks very little as it's just a general system for quality management and control.

Thanks - that makes sense.
I sent them an email yesterday and have not yet had a reply

 

[Autumn in New England]

A while back I was selling for a vintage/antique 0.1 carat old cut diamond and gold ring for just over 350 pounds and somebody messaged me to ask if the diamond came with a certificate, because they were skeptical that it might be a CZ.

I told them no, it doesn't come with a cert, as it's not practical to pay for a 150-200 pounds cert for a ring just over 350. I told them they can buy it and take it to their local pawnbroker or jeweller and get them to test it for free or a small fee, and that I offer a money back guarantee in case they didn't want to keep it for any reason. I also told them I purchased it from a well known specialist jewellery auction house and that they have gemmologists there and had sold it as a diamond. It seems they were not convinced (or at leasts they didn't go ahead with the purchase). No doubt they read somewhere like the PS that you MUST ask for a cert for all purchases or otherwise it's suspicous.

Could not agree more. Same thing happened with me to many times to count with people wanting reports for stones that are easily identified.

Some for a stone that I would tell them by the time you pay for (AGL Brief) pay for shipping there & back, will cost you half the price of the stone. I remember even less expensive stones being asked about for a report.

Labs got to love this. I wrote a little bit on this in a earlier post here.

I agree with both of you! Not all gems require certification. The issue here is, we have no idea what OP, or any newbies who may be lurking, are buying. It may be a $100 peridot. It may also be a $10,000 sapphire or a $70,000 ruby. Some reading may be pondering a large purchase of a gem that has clever synthetics or treatments. So we need to be careful about how we advise these folks, and not make assumptions that a report from an unfamiliar office in Jaipur is sufficient. The question was specifically about "IGITL," and not whether every gem needs a lab cert. I remain unconvinced about the legitimacy or capabilities of this "lab."

 

[fredflintstone]

Thank you, my friend! Good to know!! I've still yet to hear of anyone who's actually dealt directly with this lab though (fred simply googled it and Garry is on board based upon that). So that's far more important to me than any ISO, as you said.

Just a correction here. I wote this earlier - "Same goes for your observation on The "IGITL" -"International Gemological Institute and Testing Laboratory" I have used them and so has many other dealers I know. I'm not telling the consumers here what lab to trust or not, because that is a personal decision. I'm just telling my experiences."

 

[Autumn in New England]

I'm not telling the consumers here what lab to trust or not, because that is a personal decision. I'm just telling my experiences.

But, again, your response was, "[f]or the OP's needs, this lab is fine." We don't know the OP's needs, and I've seen no proof that "IGITL" is capable of testing for all treatments and synthetics. I think I've been pretty clear about that being my issue.

 

[Karl_K]

What comes to mind reading this thread is the thought that there are levels and those levels will vary for different people.
Many people base the levels on cost but someone who collects specific things may have other parameters with cost.
Levels can also be based on material even among the top labs.
Some examples of levels:
$5 who cares is it pretty?
$100 it looks right and the seller seems ok.
$1000 Seller reputation and a report but not necessarily a top lab.
$10000 A report from a top lab for that material.
These are just examples and you have to decide for yourself what your levels are and your comfort level.

For myself if someone told me a gem lab was good I would want to know the persons opinion on their level for that lab and for what materials they would recommend them to be experts on.

 

[fredflintstone]

But, again, your response was, "[f]or the OP's needs, this lab is fine." We don't know the OP's needs, and I've seen no proof that "IGITL" is capable of testing for all treatments and synthetics. I think I've been pretty clear about that being my issue.

Yes, that is what I wrote.

I have already stated my reasons why this lab is qualified. You have stated your reasons you think it is not qualified. I'm not wasting my time repeating myself. I have better things to do, as I'm sure you do.

If you want to tell people don’t trust this lab fine, I respect that, maybe you should give me the same respect. Also, I highly doubt that anyone here (consumers) would send their stones to India to be tested, though they very well may buy a stone from a vendor who had that stone tested there. This is a business of trust, especially now with the advent of the internet and online sellers and buyers that even makes it more so. My best advice if you do not trust the lab a vendor has a report for the stone from, don't buy from that vendor. It is your money.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Yes, that is what I wrote.
I have already stated my reasons why this lab is qualified. You have stated your reasons you think it is not qualified. I'm not wasting my time repeating myself. I have better things to do, as I'm sure you do.

If you want to tell people don’t trust this lab fine, I respect that, maybe you should give me the same respect. Also, I highly doubt that anyone here (consumers) would send their stones to India to be tested, though they very well may buy a stone from a vendor who had that stone tested there. This is a business of trust, especially now with the advent of the internet and online sellers and buyers that even makes it more so. My best advice if you do not trust the lab a vendor has a report for the stone from, don't buy from that vendor. It is your money.

If you read my initial response to you, I treaded as lightly and gently as possible, because I know how sensitive you are to dissent. I started off by validating your statement about the importance of these small labs in foreign trading districts. I truly did not think you'd still find a way to turn this into a duel at 20 paces.

We're going around in circles because you can't admit the simple fact that a lab with more advanced testing capabilities, among other things, might be necessary for evaluating certain gems. It's preposterous. I don't know if you are being purposely obtuse or are genuinely confused. I'm likewise unsure if that is because you have in mind the best interests of those who are here to learn, or because you must have the last word. Perhaps we've discovered what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immoveable object.

 

[fredflintstone]

If you read my initial response to you, I treaded as lightly and gently as possible, because I know how sensitive you are to dissent. I started off by validating your statement about the importance of these small labs in foreign trading districts. I truly did not think you'd still find a way to turn this into a duel at 20 paces.

We're going around in circles because you can't admit the simple fact that a lab with more advanced testing capabilities, among other things, might be necessary for evaluating certain gems. It's preposterous. I don't know if you are being purposely obtuse or are genuinely confused. I'm likewise unsure if that is because you have in mind the best interests of those who are here to learn, or because you must have the last word. Perhaps we've discovered what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immoveable object.

Hmm...well thank you for not hurting my delicate feelings, though I think you are obviously rowing the same boat here.


Not confused, not obtuse, but thank you for your kind words. Much more experienced, yes. But let’s make one thing clear, I never said the smaller labs have all the equipment of the larger labs to test for gemstone treatments. I said, these smaller gemstone labs in source countries are very familiar in how to identify BE treatment by virtue of decades of experiences with Sapphire and Ruby, day in and day out.

Also, have you ever heard of handheld LIBS...more on that later when I find out more, but these small lasers might very well punch a big hole in the big labs Be identification business by making it affordable for smaller labs and bigger dealers to test Be diffusion on their own.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Hmm...well thank you for not hurting my delicate feelings, though I think you are obviously rowing the same boat here.


Not confused, not obtuse, but thank you for your kind words. Much more experienced, yes. But let’s make one thing clear, I never said the smaller labs have all the equipment of the larger labs to test for gemstone treatments. I said, these smaller gemstone labs in source countries are very familiar in how to identify BE treatment by virtue of decades of experiences with Sapphire and Ruby, day in and day out.

Also, have you ever heard of handheld LIBS...more on that later when I find out more, but these small lasers might very well punch a big hole in the big labs Be identification business by making it affordable for smaller labs and bigger dealers to test Be diffusion on their own.

I'm more interested in the quality of one's experience, not the amount (though I'm unsure of either here). Unlike other trade members on PS, like Gene, Garry, or David, I know nothing about your time in the industry. And, unless you are THE Fred Flintstone, I don't even know your real name. So, again, I have to defer to authoritative sources like the GIA and AGL. And I've previously posted their opinions on this issue.

In an attempt to come to some sort of meeting of the minds and put a bow on this, let me pose the question a different way. You said earlier that based upon OP's needs, IGITL was fine. Let's ignore the fact that we still don't know what his/her needs are (or the needs of others reading this thread). So then, for what needs is an office like IGITL not appropriate? In other words, are there any instances where a major lab would be better equipped at testing a gem for certain treatments or synthetics? And I'm not talking about making a valuable gem more salable by having the "right" paperwork. I'm talking about definitive test results.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I'm more interested in the quality of one's experience, not the amount (though I'm unsure of either here). Unlike other trade members on PS, like Gene, Garry, or David, I know nothing about your time in the industry. And, unless you are THE Fred Flintstone, I don't even know your real name. So, again, I have to defer to authoritative sources like the GIA and AGL. And I've previously posted their opinions on this issue.

In an attempt to come to some sort of meeting of the minds and put a bow on this, let me pose the question a different way. You said earlier that based upon OP's needs, IGITL was fine. Let's ignore the fact that we still don't know what his/her needs are (or the needs of others reading this thread). So then, for what needs is an office like IGITL not appropriate? In other words, are there any instances where a major lab would be better equipped at testing a gem for certain treatments or synthetics? And I'm not talking about making a valuable gem more salable by having the "right" paperwork. I'm talking about definitive test results.

Unless that OP comes back here we will never know what gem type and value they were asking about.
Autumn I looked at all 4 of Bazelgeuze's other posts. They are large very cheap stones where a big name cert would more than double the gem cost etc.
That doesn't mean much I know.
Maybe Fred should have put a waiver in his initial advice.
But he is here with good intentions (as are you) and I think you have made your point.
If this continues I think we could ask Moderators to close the thread?

Bazelgeuse​

 

[icy_jade]

There are many experts without formal training who can through their huge depth of experience handling gems. Often very specific narrow ranges of gems species.
They will say "this doesn't feel right" and things like that.

It’s like my jeweler who looks at stuff I buy (not from him) and say that is a Burmese spinel or stuff like that and he would be right. So I totally get what you mean.

End of the day, this forum has more US posters so I totally get the usual emphasis on AGL and GIA. But I hope PS-ers also understand that it’s unrealistic to ask people NOT in the US to send their gemstones to AGL, or even to the Swiss labs. A Gubelin cert costs like $1k (more depending on size) and I’m not even counting shipping or considering how easy it would be to access the lab. So unless you have a really world class gemstone that costs a decent 5 fig or more, most people will not send their stuff to Gubelin. And erm, AGL is only that well known in the USA ok? Not known in other parts of the world. Not dissing the lab, but other labs are more popular if you will.

It‘s like my local lab. Would I say it’s world class? Probably not right. But do I trust Mr Zeng when he says a stone is unheated? Absolutely. Is a Nanyang lab cert good enough for my usual purchases? Yes because I know he has integrity and does not put in trade desired names under threats (I’ve seen him arguing with Sri Lankan sellers about “pads”) or for money unlike other labs in my country.

So back to OP‘s question, if @fredflintstone says the lab is decent, and assuming it’s not an expensive stone, personally I would take his word for it. I would also like to know if there are labs in India that he thinks are decent/better that he personally prefers.

People in the trade know stuff through industry talk (or gossip if you will). Like which labs are super lax, which trader got conned of “Burmese“ rubies certified through xxx lab that turned out to be African. So maybe not the most accurate way but hey you can bet that I wouldn’t trust the said xxx lab after hearing that. I sometimes chitchat with my jeweller and he shares some of the news (recent interesting one was GIA recalling some certified diamonds and dropping grades after regrading).

Like the list of reliable labs mentioned earlier? A good number I personally do not trust for color grading/ trade designation as I’ve seen stones irl that are NOT pigeon blood or cornflower blue. And then you see the pic I posted earlier (and yes it’s not my pic I just came across on IG). So yeah even the most trusted labs can have differing opinions too.

Ok no idea why I’m stepping into this minefield with this longwinded post.

 

[fredflintstone]

You know, we would not even by having this second round Robin here other than the fact that you wrote I googled the info on this lab. I corrected you, I wrote, I had done business with them and many of my other dealer friends have. You could not let it go at that. You just kept replying and I replied back civilly.

This lab has always proved correct in their reports along with other small labs I used. Then, I also wrote, I sent those stones to well-known labs because I know that consumers want reports from labs they know. I am not here to prove to you the quality of my experience, as you wrote. I really don't care what you think, it is you that just keeps bringing this subject up, not only to me, but other that posted from the trade here about this lab or people that just know their business of gemstones without formal education or the latest expensive gemological equipment, but then again how do you know these labs don't have access to equipment like LIBS. Jaipur is a very large city (4.5 million) and the center of a major gemstone trading center.Do you really believe they cannot access one?

As far as synthetics and treatments, many of these labs through vast experience can tell you what has been done. Most of your beloved big labs have got their leads from these labs or miners in the area. The main reason for it is they live in the source countries that create new treatments, they see stones day in and day out.

What do most people want to know about their Sapphire and Rubies? They want to know if they have been BE treated, flux treated, traditionally treated, synthetics, not treated or origin.

As far as your fixation on education and high tech very expensive equipment, that is fine, but that is not everything. Let me use an example. Some of the best musicians in the world cannot read music and our self-taught. They did not take lessons, they did not go to college for a musical degree, yet they are outstanding. Do you not think that there are people in the gemstone industry this cannot be true of?

Yes I agree, every lab should have people with formal education, but it seems in your world that these small provincial labs don't qualify as compared to your much lauded AGL and GIA, which I respect those institutions greatly, but I also respect the people that are right there at the source of Sapphires and Rubies who know from experience and necessities of life living there the ins and outs of Sapphire and Rubies and their treatments and synthetics.

And yes, you know me and I know you. I can prove this by writing two capital letters, should I? But as you don't use your real name here and I have worked for large dealers and then on my own, I remain Fred Flintstone, only because out of respect for former employers and colleagues.

Cool? Are we done now?

 

[fredflintstone]

Unless that OP comes back here we will never know what gem type and value they were asking about.
Autumn I looked at all 4 of Bazelgeuze's other posts. They are large very cheap stones where a big name cert would more than double the gem cost etc.
That doesn't mean much I know.
Maybe Fred should have put a waiver in his initial advice.
But he is here with good intentions (as are you) and I think you have made your point.
If this continues I think we could ask Moderators to close the thread?

Bazelgeuse​

Thank you.

 

[fredflintstone]

It’s like my jeweler who looks at stuff I buy (not from him) and say that is a Burmese spinel or stuff like that and he would be right. So I totally get what you mean.

End of the day, this forum has more US posters so I totally get the usual emphasis on AGL and GIA. But I hope PS-ers also understand that it’s unrealistic to ask people NOT in the US to send their gemstones to AGL, or even to the Swiss labs. A Gubelin cert costs like $1k (more depending on size) and I’m not even counting shipping or considering how easy it would be to access the lab. So unless you have a really world class gemstone that costs a decent 5 fig or more, most people will not send their stuff to Gubelin. And erm, AGL is only that well known in the USA ok? Not known in other parts of the world. Not dissing the lab, but other labs are more popular if you will.

It‘s like my local lab. Would I say it’s world class? Probably not right. But do I trust Mr Zeng when he says a stone is unheated? Absolutely. Is a Nanyang lab cert good enough for my usual purchases? Yes because I know he has integrity and does not put in trade desired names under threats (I’ve seen him arguing with Sri Lankan sellers about “pads”) or for money unlike other labs in my country.

So back to OP‘s question, if @fredflintstone says the lab is decent, and assuming it’s not an expensive stone, personally I would take his word for it. I would also like to know if there are labs in India that he thinks are decent/better that he personally prefers.

People in the trade know stuff through industry talk (or gossip if you will). Like which labs are super lax, which trader got conned of “Burmese“ rubies certified through xxx lab that turned out to be African. So maybe not the most accurate way but hey you can bet that I wouldn’t trust the said xxx lab after hearing that. I sometimes chitchat with my jeweller and he shares some of the news (recent interesting one was GIA recalling some certified diamonds and dropping grades after regrading).

Like the list of reliable labs mentioned earlier? A good number I personally do not trust for color grading/ trade designation as I’ve seen stones irl that are NOT pigeon blood or cornflower blue. And then you see the pic I posted earlier (and yes it’s not my pic I just came across on IG). So yeah even the most trusted labs can have differing opinions too.

Ok no idea why I’m stepping into this minefield with this longwinded post.

Thank you, Icy_Jade. I appreciate the support, but to be honest, I just want all of this to end, if you know what I mean.

Been a long day.

Thank you again!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Thank you, Icy_Jade. I appreciate the support, but to be honest, I just want all of this to end, if you know what I mean.

Been a long day.

Thank you again!

Does anyone have the recent top auction house that had 3 reports with 3 different origins from 2 swiss and one US top labs?

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

I almost died when I saw the prices of a Gublin report with Origin.

For the price of all those reports on the sapphire posted above you could probably fly around (hehe use Scoot) and investigate where the damn stone came from. Try to retrace all the steps!

 

[CircularBrilliant]

Does anyone have the recent top auction house that had 3 reports with 3 different origins from 2 swiss and one US top labs?

This one? https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2022/fine-jewels/synthetic-ruby-and-diamond-ring

 

[LilAlex]

And yes, you know me and I know you. I can prove this by writing two capital letters, should I? But as you don't use your real name here and I have worked for large dealers and then on my own, I remain Fred Flintstone, only because out of respect for former employers and colleagues.

@fredflintstone, I'm not sure what this is but it does not sound cool. I respect your opinion on stones and labs -- and I may not always agree with you on the latter and I am a complete amateur -- but I'm sure you're better than this type of post.

 

[Autumn in New England]

You know, we would not even by having this second round Robin here other than the fact that you wrote I googled the info on this lab. I corrected you, I wrote, I had done business with them and many of my other dealer friends have. You could not let it go at that. You just kept replying and I replied back civilly.

This lab has always proved correct in their reports along with other small labs I used. Then, I also wrote, I sent those stones to well-known labs because I know that consumers want reports from labs they know. I am not here to prove to you the quality of my experience, as you wrote. I really don't care what you think, it is you that just keeps bringing this subject up, not only to me, but other that posted from the trade here about this lab or people that just know their business of gemstones without formal education or the latest expensive gemological equipment, but then again how do you know these labs don't have access to equipment like LIBS. Jaipur is a very large city (4.5 million) and the center of a major gemstone trading center.Do you really believe they cannot access one?

As far as synthetics and treatments, many of these labs through vast experience can tell you what has been done. Most of your beloved big labs have got their leads from these labs or miners in the area. The main reason for it is they live in the source countries that create new treatments, they see stones day in and day out.

What do most people want to know about their Sapphire and Rubies? They want to know if they have been BE treated, flux treated, traditionally treated, synthetics, not treated or origin.

As far as your fixation on education and high tech very expensive equipment, that is fine, but that is not everything. Let me use an example. Some of the best musicians in the world cannot read music and our self-taught. They did not take lessons, they did not go to college for a musical degree, yet they are outstanding. Do you not think that there are people in the gemstone industry this cannot be true of?

Yes I agree, every lab should have people with formal education, but it seems in your world that these small provincial labs don't qualify as compared to your much lauded AGL and GIA, which I respect those institutions greatly, but I also respect the people that are right there at the source of Sapphires and Rubies who know from experience and necessities of life living there the ins and outs of Sapphire and Rubies and their treatments and synthetics.

And yes, you know me and I know you. I can prove this by writing two capital letters, should I? But as you don't use your real name here and I have worked for large dealers and then on my own, I remain Fred Flintstone, only because out of respect for former employers and colleagues.

Cool? Are we done now?

But that's a false equivalency... again. You don't know my entire name, of course, but what I posted was information directly from the GIA, not anecdotal evidence where I would need to trust you implicitly to believe it.

As for IGITL having access to a LIBS machine, they don't even say as much on the 3 reports I was able to find online. They specifically mention all of their testing methods, and, spoiler alert, it's standard gemological equipment most of us own. I'm not saying that as a negative - it's crucial to have those instruments. But you said they did have access to a LIBS, so...

In any event, you again avoided answering my question. At this point, I think members, new and old, can read this thread and decide whether they need to err on the side of caution, and send certain gems into one of the trusted labs for a second opinion. I did my best to assist.

I actually wrote IGITL to ask when they began issuing gem certificates, and received a response from the director himself, Mr. Khan. Fred, all these times you supposedly had gems certified by IGITL... when was that? You told me previously you've been retired from the gem trade for some time.

 

[Autumn in New England]

@fredflintstone, I'm not sure what this is but it does not sound cool. I respect your opinion on stones and labs -- and I may not always agree with you on the latter and I am a complete amateur -- but I'm sure you're better than this type of post.

That comment went right over my head, so no worries!

 

[Autumn in New England]

Does anyone have the recent top auction house that had 3 reports with 3 different origins from 2 swiss and one US top labs?

But origin is an educated guess, and every lab will tell you so... detecting treatments and synthetics is a science.

 

[fredflintstone]

@fredflintstone, I'm not sure what this is but it does not sound cool. I respect your opinion on stones and labs -- and I may not always agree with you on the latter and I am a complete amateur -- but I'm sure you're better than this type of post.

Thank you.

As far as not being cool, you are right, but sometimes you get pushed into it.
I would never reveal a member’s full name here or any part of their name that would give their identity away. But when a person keeps coming and coming at you, one loses patients and I have been very patient to almost the very end. This person has done business with me in the past and of course, she just had to tell me who she was on PriceScope, like so many before her. She just does not know it by my name here. I say this because of what she had said earlier not knowing who I am and really what I do. She does, but does not know me by Fred Flintstone.

As far as I’m concerned, this matter is closed between Autumn and I.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Found it - all Swiss labs - at least they all agreed it was unheated - it was auctioned in HK:

 

[Autumn in New England]

It’s like my jeweler who looks at stuff I buy (not from him) and say that is a Burmese spinel or stuff like that and he would be right. So I totally get what you mean.

End of the day, this forum has more US posters so I totally get the usual emphasis on AGL and GIA. But I hope PS-ers also understand that it’s unrealistic to ask people NOT in the US to send their gemstones to AGL, or even to the Swiss labs. A Gubelin cert costs like $1k (more depending on size) and I’m not even counting shipping or considering how easy it would be to access the lab. So unless you have a really world class gemstone that costs a decent 5 fig or more, most people will not send their stuff to Gubelin. And erm, AGL is only that well known in the USA ok? Not known in other parts of the world. Not dissing the lab, but other labs are more popular if you will.

It‘s like my local lab. Would I say it’s world class? Probably not right. But do I trust Mr Zeng when he says a stone is unheated? Absolutely. Is a Nanyang lab cert good enough for my usual purchases? Yes because I know he has integrity and does not put in trade desired names under threats (I’ve seen him arguing with Sri Lankan sellers about “pads”) or for money unlike other labs in my country.

So back to OP‘s question, if @fredflintstone says the lab is decent, and assuming it’s not an expensive stone, personally I would take his word for it. I would also like to know if there are labs in India that he thinks are decent/better that he personally prefers.

People in the trade know stuff through industry talk (or gossip if you will). Like which labs are super lax, which trader got conned of “Burmese“ rubies certified through xxx lab that turned out to be African. So maybe not the most accurate way but hey you can bet that I wouldn’t trust the said xxx lab after hearing that. I sometimes chitchat with my jeweller and he shares some of the news (recent interesting one was GIA recalling some certified diamonds and dropping grades after regrading).

Like the list of reliable labs mentioned earlier? A good number I personally do not trust for color grading/ trade designation as I’ve seen stones irl that are NOT pigeon blood or cornflower blue. And then you see the pic I posted earlier (and yes it’s not my pic I just came across on IG). So yeah even the most trusted labs can have differing opinions too.

Ok no idea why I’m stepping into this minefield with this longwinded post.

There are plenty of accredited labs in the US, Asia, and Europe. You don't need to spend $1k at Gubelin, of course. And I'm certainly not saying all gems require a certification from these labs or any labs, as I've mentioned repeatedly. But, yes, some folks here own valuable gems that have clever treatments and synthetics. So unless expressly stated, I think it's risky to issue a blanket statement that a provincial lab such as IGITL is sufficient (I'm not saying you did this). That is the only point I have been trying to make. I think it's a reasonable one...

 

[Autumn in New England]

Unless that OP comes back here we will never know what gem type and value they were asking about.
Autumn I looked at all 4 of Bazelgeuze's other posts. They are large very cheap stones where a big name cert would more than double the gem cost etc.
That doesn't mean much I know.
Maybe Fred should have put a waiver in his initial advice.
But he is here with good intentions (as are you) and I think you have made your point.
If this continues I think we could ask Moderators to close the thread?

Bazelgeuse​

But fred didn't know that when he answered, and neither do any of the other newbies reading this who look to us to learn. So, yes, fred should have been more thoughtful in his initial response. I respectfully pointed that out, and this was the end result. Another fight to the death. So silly. As for involving the moderators, be my guest. It takes two to tango, and fred hasn't granted me any quarter either.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Thank you.

As far as not being cool, you are right, but sometimes you get pushed into it.
I would never reveal a member’s full name here or any part of their name that would give their identity away. But when a person keeps coming and coming at you, one loses patients and I have been very patient to almost the very end. This person has done business with me in the past and of course, she just had to tell me who she was on PriceScope, like so many before her. She just does not know it by my name here. I say this because of what she had said earlier not knowing who I am and really what I do. She does, but does not know me by Fred Flintstone.

As far as I’m concerned, this matter is closed between Autumn and I.

Oh now we've done business??? How lovely. Let's confirm that, shall we... send me a message via LT with a description of the stone I purchased. Or post it here, for that matter. Plenty of folks on PS know my full name. lol I have ZERO to hide. What are you hiding? You don't even have a trade designation on your name, which seems very misleading to me. And now you're making ridiculous, veiled threats over a discussion about lab reports? What is wrong with you?

Loupe Troop

loupetroop.com

 

[icy_jade]

I agree w @Garry H (Cut Nut) that this thread should be closed…

 

[fredflintstone]

I agree w @Garry H (Cut Nut) that this thread should be closed…

I second that.

 

[fredflintstone]

Oh now we've done business??? How lovely. Let's confirm that, shall we... send me a message via LT with a description of the stone I purchased. Or post it here, for that matter. Plenty of folks on PS know my full name. lol I have ZERO to hide. What are you hiding? You don't even have a trade designation on your name, which seems very misleading to me. And now you're making ridiculous, veiled threats over a discussion about lab reports? What is wrong with you?

Loupe Troop

loupetroop.com

All I have to do is give your initials to prove it to you. Is that what you want?

And if she says yes, everyone, don't blame it on me or when she publicly denys it, but she will know it is true.

She just does not know when to quit.

The real Autumn is showing her falling leaf colors.

 

[Autumn in New England]

All I have to do is give your initials to prove it to you. Is that what you want?

And if she says yes, everyone, don't blame it on me or when she will publicly denys it, but she will know it is true.

She just does not know when to quit.

The real Autumn is showing her falling leaf colors.

But lots of folks know my name. I want to know the gem I purchased.