Tsavorite Garnet (Africa)

[Pandora II]

Date: 3/11/2008 12:55:27 AM
Author: Sparkalicious

Interesting .. I wonder why only ovals? Is it something about the stone that looks better as an oval?? I wouldn''t think so but just curious if anyone knows if its something other than coincidence.

I don''t have a set budget. I really am after a ''great'' stone and not just something pretty but given that this is the case, I may have to wait to purchase it.

I think I will ask my jeweler to try and source it and see what she comes up with ...

You wouldn''t happen to know anything about gold citrine, would you? Is it less expensive? A nice gem?? I saw a really gorgeous one and have been weighing that against a Tsavorite.

It''s not so much that there are MORE ovals as that there are very few tsavorites around at the moment. Full stop!

Stones over a carat are pretty rare - and good ones even rarer.

I was lecturing my friend who I did the oval tsav e-ring for (who was doing dangerous things in her ring

) - I told her that if she smashed her tsavorite to bits, it wasn''t like a diamond where we could take the insurance money and buy a new one in the same cut, clarity, colour and almost identical cut. No, it would be like looking for a needle in a haystack.

She was pretty shocked.

If it was me, I would save my pennies to buy the best I could. Especially as there''s not much out there and who knows what the situation is with the supplies at the mines. All I do know is that prices seem to be going up.

Emerald is a totally different look - it''s kind of sleepy looking. Personally I prefer the cleaner, sharper and more sparkly look of the tsavorites. I''m just not fussed on emeralds at all.

The reason they cost so much more than tsavorite - despite tsav being 200 times rarer - is basically marketing. People have heard of emerald and if they want green they buy that. Because tsavorite is so rare, I would thing it would be hard to do a big advertising campaign as you couldn''t supply enough stock.

Personally, I think PS is advertising enough... you''re all driving the prices of MY stones up... grumble, grumble

 

[Sparkalicious]

Date: 3/11/2008 1:54:04 PM
Author: Catmom
Oooo, Spark, you really have to get a tsavorite, they are amazing and the color is so yummy! I hope you find yours soon!

Michelle - You are so sweet. Thank you.
I see, as promised you have posted a picture of your new pretty ... I''m shooting over to your thread to comment just now.

 

[Sparkalicious]

Date: 3/11/2008 4:09:21 PM
Author: Pandora II
It's not so much that there are MORE ovals as that there are very few tsavorites around at the moment. Full stop!

Stones over a carat are pretty rare - and good ones even rarer.

I was lecturing my friend who I did the oval tsav e-ring for (who was doing dangerous things in her ring

) - I told her that if she smashed her tsavorite to bits, it wasn't like a diamond where we could take the insurance money and buy a new one in the same cut, clarity, colour and almost identical cut. No, it would be like looking for a needle in a haystack.

She was pretty shocked.

If it was me, I would save my pennies to buy the best I could. Especially as there's not much out there and who knows what the situation is with the supplies at the mines. All I do know is that prices seem to be going up.

Emerald is a totally different look - it's kind of sleepy looking. Personally I prefer the cleaner, sharper and more sparkly look of the tsavorites. I'm just not fussed on emeralds at all.

The reason they cost so much more than tsavorite - despite tsav being 200 times rarer - is basically marketing. People have heard of emerald and if they want green they buy that. Because tsavorite is so rare, I would thing it would be hard to do a big advertising campaign as you couldn't supply enough stock.

Personally, I think PS is advertising enough... you're all driving the prices of MY stones up... grumble, grumble

Pandora, please accept my apologies, as you may be correct!

... however, I must also state that it may indeed be your own fault for exposing us to such a gorgeous gem stone, as is the one in your ering and the one that you had made for your friend's. So there!

Thanks for the explanation about the shapes and emerald vs tsav. I can't believe how much you all know. Thanks for the tip about taking care of it as well ... I was wondering about that and now I know. I guess if I do get it, I will have to be really, really careful. They aren't that hard either, right?? I was considering have one made into a RHR but ... now I'm scared I'll be too rough with it ...

I'm not sure if I can wait to save my pennies ... I want one NOW! Then again, I want a couple of things NOW so I'm going to have to see what my jeweler has and what she suggests. I will keep you updated.

** eta ** I'm a yellow gold girl ... do you think that tsavorite would look as nice in a yellow gold setting or is this more of a personal preference thing? I've only ever seen it in white metal so I'm not sure???

 

[beaujolais]

If you think it is pretty (I do) and the price is right, why not?

I don''t think every piece one has has to be expensive.

 

[Richard M.]

Hi Everyone,

The Tsavorite that’s the subject of this thread is from my website. (It''s now been sold to an appreciative customer, BTW.)

As I read the thread the old saying: “Don’t let the perfect become the enemy of the good” came to my mind. Some posters failed to mention that windowing and its overall effect is only one of several important factors that must be considered when selecting a colored gem.

As one poster wisely wrote, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I might add that it sometimes resides in their bank accounts too. Some people demand nothing less than Rolls-Royces while others are overjoyed with their Smart Cars.

It’s not fair to compare a $575 stone with a $2300 one. They’re not in the same playing field even though the poster was probably just illustrating a point.

I bought that particular Tsavorite thinking: “This is a great value. It’s a pretty stone and it will make someone very happy even though it’s not absolutely perfect. The color is very good, the cut is decent with a commercially acceptable percentage of windowing, the clarity is excellent for that gem species, it’s over 1 carat and it ''faces'' very well for its weight."

The stone''s moderate window was exaggerated when I photographed it sitting directly on a contrasting background. I could easily have camouflaged that with ‘creative’ photography but I wanted potential customers to see the stone as it is. It actually looks much less windowed in “3-D” than in the image. When the pavilion of nearly any colored stone, especially many square or cushion cuts, is pressed against a contrasting background, the background color will nearly always “bleed through” slightly.

I feel that stone is an excellent value for its price. So does someone else.

Meanwhile, Tsavorite prices are definitely headed upward. The prices for rough and cut Tsavorite in Tucson last month made me gulp hard. I decided to keep my wallet closed until I have firm orders. I know miners who have adequate supplies and can provide about anything a customer might need at the moment. But the U.S. dollar''s loss of purchasing power worldwide along with increasing consumer demand in countries like India and China is currently pushing Stateside prices upward. I don''t expect that trend to reverse soon.

Richard M.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 3/11/2008 4:50:51 PM
Author: Sparkalicious
Pandora, please accept my apologies, as you may be correct!

... however, I must also state that it may indeed be your own fault for exposing us to such a gorgeous gem stone, as is the one in your ering and the one that you had made for your friend's. So there!

Thanks for the explanation about the shapes and emerald vs tsav. I can't believe how much you all know. Thanks for the tip about taking care of it as well ... I was wondering about that and now I know. I guess if I do get it, I will have to be really, really careful. They aren't that hard either, right?? I was considering have one made into a RHR but ... now I'm scared I'll be too rough with it ...

I'm not sure if I can wait to save my pennies ... I want one NOW! Then again, I want a couple of things NOW so I'm going to have to see what my jeweler has and what she suggests. I will keep you updated.

** eta ** I'm a yellow gold girl ... do you think that tsavorite would look as nice in a yellow gold setting or is this more of a personal preference thing? I've only ever seen it in white metal so I'm not sure???

Lol!

A RHR would be fine I think - mine is my e-ring and so gets a lot more wear than a RHR would get.

It's a 7 1/4 on the Mohs, so it's not very hard - but it doesn't have cleavage problems so it's safer than a lot of stones.

The most dangerous thing IMO is having it set - whoever does it MUST know about tsavorite, its very easy to chip it doing the prongs. When I had mine fixed in January I was scared stiff, but the GG at the jewellers laid down the law with the bench and they were extra careful.

You will probably get the odd tiny chip over the years, but you can have them polished out easily.

Try giving Gary or Wink a call and see what they can find - Wink found both of mine, and the oval I posted about.

I think metal is a personal thing. I'd only be a bit wary as it could bring out the yellow in a tsav - I prefer the blueish greens. I've seen it in yg on ebay and wasn't overly fussed. I do like yellow gold for a lot of things - I'm setting my sphenes in yellow.


Sonoma, the problem with the stone posted is the window - it's something that will really irritate you if you know it's there and take away from the beauty of the stone. It is a very pretty colour though.

It really depends how picky you are - when I first started oggling stones I had no idea what made a good one from a so so one. The problem is that the more you see of the good stuff, the more picky you get. You just have to decide what your own parameters are. I'd happily accept a drop in clarity, but colour and cut are king for me.



Richard, I really hope you don't feel that I insulted your stone. I think it has a lot of great qualities and I think it was a very good price. I think that a lot of us are just as picky on coloureds as PSers are on diamonds - people would jump in very quickly if the OP was asking for advice on a diamond where the cut was less than ideal.

The OP was also saying she was after a great stone rather than something pretty and green, if that makes sense, so it seemed a good idea to show her one of the best I'd seen recently. It's also normally helpful to show what you can expect to pay for a stone like that.

I'm eventually hoping to buy a pair of rounds for earrings - I will be a lot less picky there than I was for my e-ring (mainly as I don't get to see them all day

)

I think MZ and I are sometimes a little sensitive in that direction - when you have a coloured e-ring, especially a garnet, you tend to get a lot of people who assume you spent $100 on your rock.

 

[Sparkalicious]

Date: 3/11/2008 6:09:28 PM
Author: sonomacounty
If you think it is pretty (I do) and the price is right, why not?

I don''t think every piece one has has to be expensive.

Great points, Sonoma. Thank you for sharing. It''s true. Had I not been PS obsessive, I think that I would have bought this stone, unfortunately, some lucky duck has it now and is going to make something fabulous with it, I''m sure! It''s probably really pretty in real life!

I really love the color. You''re right about not every piece having to be expensive, however, since I don''t know much about gem stones, it is important to me that I''m not throwing away money, even if it is only a little bit, right? Had I known more about tsavorite, I probably would have been better able to make an educated decision as to whether or not this was the right one for me.

Thanks for the reminder ... you don''t happen to be the lucky owner of this lovely gem now, do you?

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 3/11/2008 6:17:23 PM
Author: Richard M.
Hi Everyone,

Meanwhile, Tsavorite prices are definitely headed upward. The prices for rough and cut Tsavorite in Tucson last month made me gulp hard. I decided to keep my wallet closed until I have firm orders. I know miners who have adequate supplies and can provide about anything a customer might need at the moment. But the U.S. dollar''s loss of purchasing power worldwide along with increasing consumer demand in countries like India and China is currently pushing Stateside prices upward. I don''t expect that trend to reverse soon.

Richard M.

That''s so depressing!

Do you know what the supply situation is at the mines? I heard from somewhere that they had found a new source in Kenya, but then heard elsewhere that we could be looking at a demantoid situation.

How good is the rough that was for sale at Tucson?

Sorry - million and one questions!

 

[Sparkalicious]

Date: 3/11/2008 6:17:23 PM
Author: Richard M.
Hi Everyone,

The Tsavorite that’s the subject of this thread is from my website. (It''s now been sold to an appreciative customer, BTW.)

As I read the thread the old saying: “Don’t let the perfect become the enemy of the good” came to my mind. Some posters failed to mention that windowing and its overall effect is only one of several important factors that must be considered when selecting a colored gem.

As one poster wisely wrote, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I might add that it sometimes resides in their bank accounts too. Some people demand nothing less than Rolls-Royces while others are overjoyed with their Smart Cars.

It’s not fair to compare a $575 stone with a $2300 one. They’re not in the same playing field even though the poster was probably just illustrating a point.

I bought that particular Tsavorite thinking: “This is a great value. It’s a pretty stone and it will make someone very happy even though it’s not absolutely perfect. The color is very good, the cut is decent with a commercially acceptable percentage of windowing, the clarity is excellent for that gem species, it’s over 1 carat and it ''faces'' very well for its weight.''

The stone''s moderate window was exaggerated when I photographed it sitting directly on a contrasting background. I could easily have camouflaged that with ‘creative’ photography but I wanted potential customers to see the stone as it is. It actually looks much less windowed in “3-D” than in the image. When the pavilion of nearly any colored stone, especially many square or cushion cuts, is pressed against a contrasting background, the background color will nearly always “bleed through” slightly.

I feel that stone is an excellent value for its price. So does someone else.

Meanwhile, Tsavorite prices are definitely headed upward. The prices for rough and cut Tsavorite in Tucson last month made me gulp hard. I decided to keep my wallet closed until I have firm orders. I know miners who have adequate supplies and can provide about anything a customer might need at the moment. But the U.S. dollar''s loss of purchasing power worldwide along with increasing consumer demand in countries like India and China is currently pushing Stateside prices upward. I don''t expect that trend to reverse soon.

Richard M.

Richard,

Thank you for providing your feedback and sharing your opinion with such a detailed post.
I''m sorry if you took offence at the discussion about this gem ... That was never my intention.
As a colored gem newbie, I was seeking a critical opionion as to the quality of this stone. While it may not be the best cut tsavorite available, it is a wonderful color, in a personally desirable shape and a phenomenal deal to boot! I actually am quite jealous of the new owner.
Thanks again for stopping in and sharing your thoughts, professional opinion, invaluable information and additional perspective for me!

 

[Sparkalicious]

Date: 3/11/2008 6:26:43 PM
Author: Pandora II
I think metal is a personal thing. I''d only be a bit wary as it could bring out the yellow in a tsav - I prefer the blueish greens. I''ve seen it in yg on ebay and wasn''t overly fussed. I do like yellow gold for a lot of things - I''m setting my sphenes in yellow.

Pandora,

Thanks for the tip about having tsavorite set! Good to know.

Interesting about the yellow gold effect as well ... I too really like the blueish green color and prefer that to a yellow color.

You are SO helpful ... thank you very much!

 

[Harriet]

Sparkalicious,
You''re welcome. And, yes, you can be bad too.

Pandora,
Tsavorites are dreadful, aren''t they?

 

[LembeckGems]

In defense of Emeralds. There is not a green gem that can compare to fine Columbian Emerald IMO. We do not see fiine gems anymore in important sizes. So, we no longer know what gem Emerald looks like.

There are smaller gems available, still, and as much as I love Tsavorite, they are out classed in the world of green by gem Emerald.

Want to see the greenest thing in the world? Go to The Am. MNH in NY and look at their Emerald crystal. Intoxicating. It will drive you mad.

gembeck

 

[Sparkalicious]

Date: 3/11/2008 7:37:28 PM
Author: LembeckGems
Want to see the greenest thing in the world? Go to The Am. MNH in NY and look at their Emerald crystal. Intoxicating. It will drive you mad.

gembeck

Interesting! Thanks for the tip and info, LembeckGems!

Curious ... Is that the American Museum of Natural History in New York?

 

[Harriet]

Yup.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 3/11/2008 7:21:44 PM
Author: Harriet

Pandora,
Tsavorites are dreadful, aren't they?

Certainly are!

They also have this weird thing - the first time you wash them, all the green comes out and they fall to bits. I really wouldn't recommend them to anyone.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 3/11/2008 7:37:28 PM
Author: LembeckGems
In defense of Emeralds. There is not a green gem that can compare to fine Columbian Emerald IMO. We do not see fiine gems anymore in important sizes. So, we no longer know what gem Emerald looks like.

There are smaller gems available, still, and as much as I love Tsavorite, they are out classed in the world of green by gem Emerald.

Want to see the greenest thing in the world? Go to The Am. MNH in NY and look at their Emerald crystal. Intoxicating. It will drive you mad.

gembeck

I've seen some pretty amazing ones in Graff and Moussief in New Bond Street and the Natural History Museum has a fabulous one.

I appreciate their beauty, but they don't make me "need to have one". Horses for courses...

Also, as you say, it's pretty hard to find a really good one - and then the price... Oy!

 

[Richard M.]

Date: 3/11/2008 6:59:04 PM
Author: Sparkalicious

Date: 3/11/2008 6:17:23 PM<BR

Richard,



I''m sorry if you took offence at the discussion about this gem ... That was never my intention.

Please don''t interpret my comments as "taking offense."

I was attempting to create a wider perspective about gem purchases. It''s a view I''ve wanted to express here for a long time, hopefully as a contribution to the learning process. Sometimes compromises must be made when buying a stone unless cost is no object.

Excessive windowing is certainly a problem but the importance of minor to moderate windowing varies with individual tastes and the gem''s other quality factors. It''s built into the stone''s price structure. Many very valuable fine gems have small windows and other cutting defects.

Consider this: For generations it''s been pretty much agreed that emeralds should be cut for color, not brilliance. That means one can often read through those big window-pane pavilion facets (if there isn''t too much "jardin"

). Yet a school of thought has developed around the "other" green gem, Tsavorite, requiring top brilliance and precision cutting as a value factor. That makes some sense because Tsavorite occurs in cleaner pieces, has a higher refractive index and is shaped so it can be cut more brilliantly. But not all tastes are the same and some people value it mainly for its color. So who''s to say who''s "right?"

As I mentioned previously, affordability is another important concern. Not everyone has a key to Ft. Knox (although we all wish we did!

) Yet many people really want to own a nice Tsavorite without putting too large a dent in their savings. So sellers must offer a range of quality and price.

There''s another really important thing to consider. Unlike most diamonds, fine colored gems are truly rare. If you demand the best, be ready to pay for it. Unfortunately those gems are too expensive for many dealers to stock in their own inventories but they usually know where to find them if asked.


Richard M.

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 3/11/2008 6:26:43 PM
Author: Pandora II

Richard, I really hope you don''t feel that I insulted your stone. I think it has a lot of great qualities and I think it was a very good price. I think that a lot of us are just as picky on coloureds as PSers are on diamonds - people would jump in very quickly if the OP was asking for advice on a diamond where the cut was less than ideal.

The OP was also saying she was after a great stone rather than something pretty and green, if that makes sense, so it seemed a good idea to show her one of the best I''d seen recently. It''s also normally helpful to show what you can expect to pay for a stone like that.

I''m eventually hoping to buy a pair of rounds for earrings - I will be a lot less picky there than I was for my e-ring (mainly as I don''t get to see them all day

)

I think MZ and I are sometimes a little sensitive in that direction - when you have a coloured e-ring, especially a garnet, you tend to get a lot of people who assume you spent $100 on your rock.

amen on all statements, especially the last line!

i''ll go one step further though: i don''t think of this forum as merely a place to cheer each and every potential purchase but rather as an educational forum much like the diamond forum.

movie zombie

 

[Richard M.]

Date: 3/11/2008 6:45:16 PM
Author: Pandora II

Date: 3/11/2008 6:17:23 PM


Do you know what the supply situation is at the mines? I heard from somewhere that they had found a new source in Kenya, but then heard elsewhere that we could be looking at a demantoid situation.


How good is the rough that was for sale at Tucson?


Sorry - million and one questions!

I didn''t personally see a lot of Tsavorite rough because I focused on different venues this year. Friends and associates reported good quantities in all qualities but very high prices. Nearly any quality/size/price of cut stones was available and I know from personal contact with major Tsavorite dealers in Africa that adequate rough seems available at the moment.

Remember: colored stone supplies are dynamic, unlike diamonds. A new discovery can temporarily glut the market and prices will dip, rising again as supplies diminish. High prices stimulate new exploration so everything is cyclic. Few remember but back in the early 80s Tanzanite prices were higher than they are now. I think the same was generally true of Tsavorite but I''d have to do some research to be sure.

Richard M.

 

[Richard M.]

Date: 3/11/2008 7:37:28 PM
Author: LembeckGems
In defense of Emeralds. There is not a green gem that can compare to fine Columbian Emerald IMO. We do not see fiine gems anymore in important sizes. So, we no longer know what gem Emerald looks like.


There are smaller gems available, still, and as much as I love Tsavorite, they are out classed in the world of green by gem Emerald.

We don''t see large, important emeralds because their prices are simply astronomical! The market was glutted 10-15 years ago with cheap, very low quality black-spotted, epoxy-filled Brazilian goods and the emerald franchise was greatly damaged and cheapened. A variety of questionable emerald treatments has added to the gem''s negative public image.

I agree there''s nothing to compare with top emerald green. I''ve often wondered why Tsavorites are called "emerald green." They''re not. Fine Colombian emeralds are colored by chromium and top stones have what I think of personally as "Heavenly sweet green." There''s nothing like it. Tsavorites are colored mainly by vanadium with possibly a little "help" from tiny amounts of chromium. As with vanadium-colored emeralds from Zambia and areas of Brazil, the green is beautiful but has what I think of as a slightly "harder" quality with dark contrasts. Some new mines in Brazil, however, are now producing fine chromium emeralds that easily equal Colombian. Hopefully there will be enough production to make fine stones affordable once again.

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 3/11/2008 8:31:36 PM
Author: Richard M.

Date: 3/11/2008 6:59:04 PM


There''s another really important thing to consider. Unlike most diamonds, fine colored gems are truly rare. If you demand the best, be ready to pay for it. Unfortunately those gems are too expensive for many dealers to stock in their own inventories but they usually know where to find them if asked.


Richard M.

richard, i think you''ve hit the nail on the head with that paragraph.


movie zombie

 

[Richard M.]

Date: 3/11/2008 8:42:56 PM
Author: movie zombie

Date: 3/11/2008 6:26:43 PM

Author: Pandora II


Richard, I really hope you don''t feel that I insulted your stone. I think it has a lot of great qualities and I think it was a very good price. I think that a lot of us are just as picky on coloureds as PSers are on diamonds - people would jump in very quickly if the OP was asking for advice on a diamond where the cut was less than ideal.


The OP was also saying she was after a great stone rather than something pretty and green, if that makes sense, so it seemed a good idea to show her one of the best I''d seen recently. It''s also normally helpful to show what you can expect to pay for a stone like that.


I''m eventually hoping to buy a pair of rounds for earrings - I will be a lot less picky there than I was for my e-ring (mainly as I don''t get to see them all day

)


I think MZ and I are sometimes a little sensitive in that direction - when you have a coloured e-ring, especially a garnet, you tend to get a lot of people who assume you spent $100 on your rock.

amen on all statements, especially the last line!


i''ll go one step further though: i don''t think of this forum as merely a place to cheer each and every potential purchase but rather as an educational forum much like the diamond forum.


movie zombie

Pandora and MZ:

I am not offended, Pandora. I was just trying to create perspective, as you were.

I don''t expect my stone offerings to be cheered on, MZ. And I hope my posts might be considered as part of the educational process.

Rather, I was trying to broaden the discussion to explain there is a large and valid market for less than perfect gems. A single defect, like moderate windowing, should not always be a fatal problem. It might be for both of you, but perhaps not for others. The real question I believe comes down to: is the stone worth the price?

I love and specialize in garnets, so your views about perceptions of their value relative to other gems hits very close to home with me. It''s a battle I fight daily.

Richard M.

 

[Sparkalicious]

Date: 3/11/2008 8:31:36 PM
Author: Richard M.
Please don''t interpret my comments as ''taking offense.'' I was attempting to create a wider perspective about gem purchases. It''s a view I''ve wanted to express here for a long time, hopefully as a contribution to the learning process. Sometimes compromises must be made when buying a stone unless cost is no object.

Excessive windowing is certainly a problem but the importance of minor to moderate windowing varies with individual tastes and the gem''s other quality factors. It''s built into the stone''s price structure. Many very valuable fine gems have small windows and other cutting defects.

There''s another really important thing to consider. Unlike most diamonds, fine colored gems are truly rare. If you demand the best, be ready to pay for it. Unfortunately those gems are too expensive for many dealers to stock in their own inventories but they usually know where to find them if asked.

Richard M.

Richard, I''m so glad to know that I misinterpreted any sign of offence!

Thank you for the perspective.

This thread has turned into something far more informative than I ever expected. I so greatly value everyone''s input. The points in the above post are quite valid and speak to the adage "you get what you pay for", right? As far as gems are concerned, it still rings true ... you just can''t avoid it!

While this is true, it also gives me some comfort knowing that while I may have to shell out more money than I may have initially thought, I don''t necessarily have to rob at bank, yet, to get a gorgeous Tsavorite or other gem that I desire that has a fabulous color and cut to showcase it''s beauty. Even if its not entirely perfect, depending upon how I "react" or feel when I see it it may be the one for me??

Given that windows are not desirable, per se, and quality excellent cut, vibrant color and inclusion free clarity are ... what are the absolute no-no''s when looking for a quality, yet not cost-prohibitive gem? I would prefer "natural" ... so given that the stone is natural ... what is a clear indicator of a poor cut?

 

[Richard M.]

Date: 3/11/2008 11:18:47 PM
Author: Sparkalicious

Given that windows are not desirable, per se, and quality excellent cut, vibrant color and inclusion free clarity are ... what are the absolute no-no''s when looking for a quality, yet not cost-prohibitive gem? I would prefer ''natural'' ... so given that the stone is natural ... what is a clear indicator of a poor cut?

I assume the question is for me so I''ll put in my two cents, which goes to the heart of what I''ve been trying to get across in the thread. Does the stone make you happy? Is it something that gives you a little thrill each time you see it? Does it please your eyes and heart again and again?

First, colored stones are not diamonds. Methods of grading their cuts and other factors are entirely different even though the faceting process may be somewhat similar. There are many clear indicators of a poor colored stone cut, not just one. I could go on at great length about proper facet meets and pavilion angles, windows, fish-eyes, correct pavilion depth as opposed to crown height (unnecessary weight), bad polish, bad symmetry, extinction, uneven girdle, girdle too thick or thin, extra facets, naturals, table too large or small and so on.

I started to write that there''s much more to it than meets the eye but that''s not true: it''s what meets the buyer''s eye that''s truly important IMO.

GIA''s grading guide for Poor Cut in colored gems is essentially as follows:

Easy to see variations that reduce the beauty or practicality.
Less than 25% light return in the face-up position.
Uneven or asymmetrical outline in the face-up position.
Extreme shallowness or depth in the stone''s profile resulting in obvious light leakage.
Unsymmetrical facets, polish lines, abrasions, etc. indicating poor finish.

There are three grades in-between but an extra fine cut would have:

No variations that reduce practicality or beauty
75% or greater light return in the face-up position
Only very small variations in face-up and profile symmetry
Attractive face-up outline
A length-to-width ratio accepted in the Trade
Acceptable bulge, girdle thickness and table size
Excellent polish and facet placement

Sadly there''s no simple single rule. I hope this helps.

Richard M.

 

[movie zombie]

Date: 3/12/2008 12:52:26 AM
Author: Richard M.

Date: 3/11/2008 11:18:47 PM

First, colored stones are not diamonds. Methods of grading their cuts and other factors are entirely different even though the faceting process may be somewhat similar. There are many clear indicators of a poor colored stone cut, not just one. I could go on at great length about proper facet meets and pavilion angles, windows, fish-eyes, correct pavilion depth as opposed to crown height (unnecessary weight), bad polish, bad symmetry, extinction, uneven girdle, girdle too thick or thin, extra facets, naturals, table too large or small and so on.

and therein lines the problem for the novice color stone buyer: much more complicated than diamonds. as with diamonds its always about the tradeoffs v. budget.

what this thread reinforces once again is get educated re the color stone you''re interested in buying. there are always trade offs. but until one gets the stone in hand and actually sees the stone, how can one know if the window will bother you or not and if the stone really does sing to you? no harm in haviing a stone sent to you to preview if there is a good return policy.

congrats to the thread starter for starting on the tsav garnet journey.

movie zombie

 

[bar01]

Sparkalicious,


A picture of the pair of Tsavorites I just purchased. Speaking of rare colored gems they are sandwiching a Alexanditre (showing one side of its color change) also part of my project. Toss in some Whiteflash ACA diamonds and a little platinum and I should have more photos to share in June.

 

[chrono]

They look really good. I love the 3 gems.

 

[Catmom]

Oh Bertrand, that''s going to be FABULOUS!!!!!!!

 

[tsavvy]

Date: 3/11/2008 6:17:23 PM
Author: Richard M.
Hi Everyone,

The Tsavorite that’s the subject of this thread is from my website. (It''s now been sold to an appreciative customer, BTW.)

...

Richard M.

Hopefully this isn''t considered thread-jacking, but I am the appreciative customer

(and, I''ve long wanted to use one of those smiley faces). I''m a long-time PS lurker (since 2006) and really like the tsavorite. As Rick mentioned, the window is not ultra-noticeable and, due to the size of the stone, I doubt too many people will see it unless I meet another PS-er who inspects it with their loupe. Immense apologies for the lack of photos as I realize they are a pre-requisite to discussing a stone purchase - I read storm''s post, but still haven''t figured out how to get the macro setting on my fairly decent camera to perform properly. I have a lot of fuzzy green pictures at the moment

 

[Sparkalicious]

Date: 3/12/2008 11:22:57 AM
Author: Bertrand
Sparkalicious,
A picture of the pair of Tsavorites I just purchased. Speaking of rare colored gems they are sandwiching a Alexanditre (showing one side of its color change) also part of my project. Toss in some Whiteflash ACA diamonds and a little platinum and I should have more photos to share in June.

Bertrand! June!!

No fair. ... those stones are gorgeous! Whatever you are cooking up is going to be stunning!
I am starting to tap my toe impatiently from now ... I cannot wait to see what you have up your sleeve.

Thanks for sharing the pics of the stones though ... that might, just might hold me over.