Tubal Ligation

[amc80]

Have you looked into ablation?

 

[nala]

I'm confused. It seems like some posters think that you can force your will on another adult. I'm in the same situation, except he uses condoms bc neither of us will budge. They are very safe. Anyhow, for those of you who are advising that she can make him do it, what's the trick? I have no doubt my husband loves me and he willingly performs acts of love on a daily basis, but he is the typical macho man in this regard. He thinks it will impact his sexual performance or desire. Ignorant as he sounds, I respect his fears. He isn't forcing me to do it either and he plays by the rules. How could I possibly force him to do this? Seriously, share your tips! Some of us are married to big babies with irrational fears that are reinforced by their macho culture. But I guess that I accepted that characteristic when I married him.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I agree with those who said it is his turn now. Does he never have two days off in a row? My husband had one almost 30 years ago and it was not a big deal then...doctor's office on a Friday and back to work on Monday. No one even has to know.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

I looked into tubal ligation and decided "No way". What scared me the most is the reasonably high failure rate and the fact that a failure often leads to an ectopic pregnancy (since it is easier for spermatozoa to squeeze through into the Fallopian tubes than an egg to make it through to the uterus). In a vasectomy, if there is any fear of a reversal, a simple sperm count will tell you if there is a problem.

I think you and your husband need to find out what is really going on in his mind (he may not even be aware of why he is so hesitant to do it) and address it. Birth control is a shared responsibility and it isn't fair that you literally suffer for it. On the other hand, might other birth control solutions work for the two of you?

 

[packrat]

I would actually be fine if *both* of us did it, just b/c I'm paranoid and I like to be safe. Back "in the day" pre marriage, I made the guys I was w/use condoms, plus I was on the pill. They weren't happy about it, but whatever, that was the deal, wear it or keep it in your pants.

His schedule is a two week rotating schedule, so twice during that two weeks he has three days off in a row. The last time I brought it up, he got huffy and was like fine, I'll get it done as soon as X....which has now been and gone, like all the others. When he tries to get touchy feely, I smile and tell him he knows what he needs to do.

In some ways I feel like this is a power struggle, and I don't understand why or how it came about. It's something we discussed, many years ago, many times, and came to this decision. It has been revisited many times over these last years and always the same decision.

The sister of a woman I worked w/last year had it done-she had it done on Tuesday I think she said and went back to work Friday. Her job is a little different, not lifting kids, dealing w/kids who kick and punch etc.

The idea of another surgery and then coming home to take care of a house, the kids, all the other things I do normally...it reminds me of when I had the kids (and my hernia repair and my T&A several years ago) and had to come home and do it all, myself, even tho I'd been told explicitly not to do specific things--who else was going to do them? The thought of that irritates me.

And I know that sounds like ohh poor Missi, but I can't help it.

Yeah, there's a couple Dr's that do them in the office here also. It's been so long since I last talked about it w/our Dr. that I don't even remember who they are now.

What's involved in an ablation? A past coworker had it done and I was under the impression it was for super heavy periods? That's why she had it done anyway.

 

[Jambalaya]

If you do it, Packrat, I hope he feels guilty! But since you have the mesh-work thingy, I'm not even sure if you can do it.

 

[Cluless]

by Jambalaya » 28 Sep 2015 21:45


If you do it, Packrat, I hope he feels guilty!

Oh Jambalaya, what good would come out of this? Packrat, my heart does go out to you, I truely sympathize. In everyone's answers though I did not see any concern for his mental well being. Emotionally,mentally he's not there yet, he may never be. Please sit down, have a heart to heart with him and I am sure you both can come up with a solution you are both comfortable with.

 

[chemgirl]

by Jambalaya » 28 Sep 2015 21:45


If you do it, Packrat, I hope he feels guilty!

Oh Jambalaya, what good would come out of this? Packrat, my heart does go out to you, I truely sympathize. In everyone's answers though I did not see any concern for his mental well being. Emotionally,mentally he's not there yet, he may never be. Please sit down, have a heart to heart with him and I am sure you both can come up with a solution you are both comfortable with.

I guess I see it as something that isn't a big deal at all so I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around being mentally ready for it.

Getting your wisdom teeth out seems like an infinitely bigger decision.

If he still wants more kids then that's something totally different.

 

[missy]

Cluless it's not that we are not concerned about his mental well being it's just where is his concern for Packrats mental and physical well being? She does it all, takes care of everyone and now he cannot even have a simple procedure when they both agreed and are good with the no more kids decision? His behavior right now is incredibly selfish and he is certainly not putting his darling wife first here. He is willing for her to have a tubal ligation so it looks like he is mentally ready to have no more kids so that is not what is holding him back. No it's fine with him as long as she is the one to do it. Sorry but my sympathy for him is very little as it is all going to Packrat right now. Vasectomy is not a big deal but tubal ligation is.

 

[makemepretty]

I had one 18 years ago, at 26. I think if I had it to do over, I wouldn't have. It seemed to make my periods worse and it was more painful than I'd imagined. Although, we women can tolerate anything, I believe.

I had mine on a Friday, went home on Saturday (could have stayed another day but I prefer not to be in a hospital) and my husband went back to work on Monday. I had a baby and a two year old to take care of that week and I couldn't actually stand up straight. Plus, you're technically not supposed to lift over 10 pounds but tell that to a mother taking care of two little kids! I survived. I just can't recommend to anyone that they should have a tubal.

 

[packrat]

I don't think he'd feel guilty. It would be more "oh, ok", shrug, and then on to the next thing. I used to purposely try and make him feel guilty about things, thinking it would spark something in his man-brain, and it never worked, so I quit trying. Mostly now I just do things myself instead of asking (over and over and over until I'm blue in the face) b/c it's not worth it.

 

[packrat]

I had one 18 years ago, at 26. I think if I had it to do over, I wouldn't have. It seemed to make my periods worse and it was more painful than I'd imagined. Although, we women can tolerate anything, I believe.

I had mine on a Friday, went home on Saturday (could have stayed another day but I prefer not to be in a hospital) and my husband went back to work on Monday. I had a baby and a two year old to take care of that week and I couldn't actually stand up straight. Plus, you're technically not supposed to lift over 10 pounds but tell that to a mother taking care of two little kids! I survived. I just can't recommend to anyone that they should have a tubal.

Yeahhhh that's how it will be for me. Sigh. Maybe I'll make a list of all the comparisons and tell him either he does it or I do it, but the oops rate is X% on a tubal so he still would have to wear condoms.

 

[Cluless]

chemgirl & missy ìt's not the procedure I was refering to. It's oh gosh how to say this I have a felling JD is a macho man will he ever be ready to be ''Less of a Man'' because unfortunately that's how they feel and mentally what does that do to a man? Heck my DH is so freakin macho he won't even have the dogs ''fixed'' lol. It's just mental anguish . I don't want her to force him into something so big like taking away his ''Manhood'' and then him hating her for it.

 

[House Cat]

Packrat,

Look into ablation. I am starting the process in a week. No periods, no fertility, outpatient procedure, and it won't mess with your mesh.

 

[purplesparklies]

I had a tubal following a c-section. My Dr. also removed a section, cauterized (? can't remember if that is the correct term) the ends and tied. It was pretty darn complete. I joked with my Dr. that if there were any surprises, he was responsible for the college tuition of that one. He wasn't worried. I only did the tubal because we opted to do a scheduled c-section for our second child because of issues we had with the first. Had we not opted for the c-section, my husband was going to have a vasectomy. He would choose to do any kind of procedure if it could protect me from risk, without question. Every time. That is just the kind of man he is.

I have also had ablation to alleviate issues with heavy bleeding. It was after my tubal but was still several years ago. That was an outpatient procedure. I did have some pain and discomfort afterward. More than was expected. I have been thrilled with the outcome since. I have zero bleeding and cramping. It is a beautiful thing. I was told that I may or may not start having a menstrual cycle again eventually. I hope not but it is possible. I do remember that it is only for women who do not wish to conceive again but it was not a procedure that was to be used in place of a tubal. I do not recall why exactly that was the case.

I agree that no one can force another person agree to have a medical procedure. However, I would be hurt and incredibly disappointed if my husband did not volunteer to have this very common, low risk procedure to benefit our relationship and save me from having to endure yet another, much riskier surgery. Yes, it is possible to have a tubal via the belly button but, last I spoke with my Dr., it is not nearly as effective. Frankly, I would be demanding some answers and I would feel that there are much bigger issues at hand if my husband were unwilling to man-up for the sake of my health and our relationship after everything I have put my body through for the sake of our relationship and our family.

Best of luck to the OP. This is clearly difficult and I hope can be resolved soon and peacefully.

 

[momhappy]

I'm confused. It seems like some posters think that you can force your will on another adult. I'm in the same situation, except he uses condoms bc neither of us will budge. They are very safe. Anyhow, for those of you who are advising that she can make him do it, what's the trick? I have no doubt my husband loves me and he willingly performs acts of love on a daily basis, but he is the typical macho man in this regard. He thinks it will impact his sexual performance or desire. Ignorant as he sounds, I respect his fears. He isn't forcing me to do it either and he plays by the rules. How could I possibly force him to do this? Seriously, share your tips! Some of us are married to big babies with irrational fears that are reinforced by their macho culture. But I guess that I accepted that characteristic when I married him.

I don't see where anyone has posted that you can physically force someone to have a surgical procedure What many of us have said, however, is that we would put our foots down and have a very frank discussion about why Pakie's DH needs to take one for the team on this one. That doesn't mean that she (or any of us) could force a surgical procedure. It means that there are serious consequences/ramifications if Packie feels like she's been treated unfairly (yet again) in terms of such a serious issue.
I could respect a man's fears about the procedure, but I couldn't respect his choice to not have one after I've been in charge of BC all these years, gone through pregnancies, gone through childbirths, etc. At some point, enough is enough. If I were in this situation, I'd schedule an a vasectomy consultation appt. and I would attend it with him. If he still refused to have the procedure even after hearing a doctor explain how simple it is, then we might end up in marriage counseling because I think that this is an issue that goes beyond BC.

 

[Tekate]

Packrat, my husband said to me once, 'don't use sex as a weapon'.. now I think he was mainly speaking of holding back sex for something (like jewlery .. Is your husband afraid to get the vasectomy? I would ask him sincerely "WTF is the problem honey?" "are you afraid? is there something else going on?" reasonably today men should know that having a V is simple, safe, easy, and won't affect virility, but some men are just scared.. do you want to force the issue? we as women shoulder the pregnancy, the pushing, the Csect if so, nausea, pain, love of a pregnancy, they don't no matter what they say. Is it worth it to make a stand? are you willing to push it to the limit? having a tubal and then making him wear a condom is still punishment to his mind perhaps?

I would only get the cut, cauterize and tie like I had and another poster above, just tying, nope. I know I often go hippy, dippy, 60s thoughts but I'd really want to understand why he's putting it off other than fear.. if it's fear and you aren't afraid to have a tubal maybe you might just want to do it.. the physical, mental and moral issues always fall to the woman.

I have not read all the replies here but a man's POV would be interesting.

as always, peace to you.

 

[AdaBeta27]

I don't think he'd feel guilty. It would be more "oh, ok", shrug, and then on to the next thing. I used to purposely try and make him feel guilty about things, thinking it would spark something in his man-brain, and it never worked, so I quit trying. Mostly now I just do things myself instead of asking (over and over and over until I'm blue in the face) b/c it's not worth it.

^ Right there is your answer, bolded. He's learned that if he takes no action, you'll let him off the hook, be a martyr, and just do all the work yourself. My dad had played my mother like that forever, and he's never changed. So, consult the physicians about how to best do a tubal taking into consideration the hernia repair. Then schedule the procedure, schedule your time off from work, get a rent-a-nanny/cook/housekeeper for 1-2 weeks while you recover, and steer the ship as usual. If he doesn't like those arrangements, then he can run right out and get that promised vasectomy PDQ, and the other arrangements can be cancelled.
I wouldn't cater to him on this issue. YOU are done with kids, and regardless of whether or not you stay married to this man, YOU are done having kids, right? So, the only real issue here is how does the hernia repair complicate things? If it doesn't make you high risk for another hernia, go for it. I know women who've had tubals, and none have had any accidental pregnancies. At what age is this still considered a major risk? 20s, maybe, but I'd bet it declines with age, just because fertility declines with age. I could be wrong, though. It's a question to ask the doctors.

eta: I had a fibroid removed, and had a small incision on either side of my navel, (plus a big horizontal incision.) Those two small ones on the sides healed up in no time flat. Could they do 2 small ones like that, and avoid your repaired area altogether?

 

[azstonie]

Packie, lemme be real frank here: Very few good results off those hernia repairs with mesh. Since *you* had a good result, PLEASE don't let anyone get in there unless it was a life/death reason!! No No Nanette!!!

 

[missy]

chemgirl & missy ìt's not the procedure I was refering to. It's oh gosh how to say this I have a felling JD is a macho man will he ever be ready to be ''Less of a Man'' because unfortunately that's how they feel and mentally what does that do to a man? Heck my DH is so freakin macho he won't even have the dogs ''fixed'' lol. It's just mental anguish . I don't want her to force him into something so big like taking away his ''Manhood'' and then him hating her for it.

It's ironic isn't it because the definition of a "real" man in my book is a man who takes care of his family whatever that entails. No question about it IMO.

 

[Cluless]

Oh I agree with you 1000% missy that's not the problem. I have actually heard some of these machos say they would rather be dead than be touched there( surgically). It's an irrational fear (the one of being less of) but I do know of 1 who would have rather been dead than do it. He got it done after all (after the birth of 4th child) and is still amongst us lol.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

Oh I agree with you 1000% missy that's not the problem. I have actually heard some of these machos say they would rather be dead than be touched there( surgically). It's an irrational fear (the one of being less of) but I do know of 1 who would have rather been dead than do it. He got it done after all (after the birth of 4th child) and is still amongst us lol.

It is sad that men still have these fears. I know more than one man that absolutely refuses a rectal touch exam - despite family history and doctor recommendations - or a colonoscopy - despite symptoms of internal bleeding. At least women have gotten over this, mostly (my grandmother still refuses a colonoscopy because no decent lady would do that).

 

[momhappy]

chemgirl & missy ìt's not the procedure I was refering to. It's oh gosh how to say this I have a felling JD is a macho man will he ever be ready to be ''Less of a Man'' because unfortunately that's how they feel and mentally what does that do to a man? Heck my DH is so freakin macho he won't even have the dogs ''fixed'' lol. It's just mental anguish . I don't want her to force him into something so big like taking away his ''Manhood'' and then him hating her for it.

It's ironic isn't it because the definition of a "real" man in my book is a man who takes care of his family whatever that entails. No question about it IMO.

I agree with you missy
Also, I don't buy into the argument that a man is simply to scared, macho, etc. to have a vasectomy. It's an excuse. period. and a lame one at that.

 

[Jambalaya]

by Jambalaya » 28 Sep 2015 21:45


If you do it, Packrat, I hope he feels guilty!

Oh Jambalaya, what good would come out of this? Packrat, my heart does go out to you, I truely sympathize. In everyone's answers though I did not see any concern for his mental well being. Emotionally,mentally he's not there yet, he may never be. Please sit down, have a heart to heart with him and I am sure you both can come up with a solution you are both comfortable with.

It was a joke because I had already said what I had to say upthread - which was that it's his body, neither of them wants surgery so neither should do it, and they should shelve the issue for now and work on becoming closer again after a six-month dry spell, using other methods of bc for the time being. I did not seriously mean that she should actually go out of her way to make him feel guilty. It was a light-hearted comment after I'd already given serious advice.

 

[Jambalaya]

chemgirl & missy ìt's not the procedure I was refering to. It's oh gosh how to say this I have a felling JD is a macho man will he ever be ready to be ''Less of a Man'' because unfortunately that's how they feel and mentally what does that do to a man? Heck my DH is so freakin macho he won't even have the dogs ''fixed'' lol. It's just mental anguish . I don't want her to force him into something so big like taking away his ''Manhood'' and then him hating her for it.

It's ironic isn't it because the definition of a "real" man in my book is a man who takes care of his family whatever that entails. No question about it IMO.

I agree with you missy
Also, I don't buy into the argument that a man is simply to scared, macho, etc. to have a vasectomy. It's an excuse. period. and a lame one at that.

Momhappy, I really think that's a little harsh. I know the idea of a man refusing to "man-up" on this is absolutely, totally maddening after everything a wife goes through, but men's masculinity means as much to them as our femininity means to us. Maybe you think it's lame, but those feelings are real to the one feeling them. It may not be fair to the marriage, but it's his body and he has a right to refuse surgery on it. Imagine if the topic was a man trying to cajole a woman into being sterilized with arguments, threats of marriage counseling, no sex etc - there'd be an outcry! Packrat, I'm not saying you are doing that at all, I'm saying that Momhappy's attitude and some others appears to be basically "Do it or else." I think that's wrong.

Of course he should do it and take one for the team - of course he should! But the reality is that he doesn't want to and I just think that choice needs to be accepted. Yes, marriage is a team but of course we remain individuals too, and this is such a personal choice.

 

[momhappy]

chemgirl & missy ìt's not the procedure I was refering to. It's oh gosh how to say this I have a felling JD is a macho man will he ever be ready to be ''Less of a Man'' because unfortunately that's how they feel and mentally what does that do to a man? Heck my DH is so freakin macho he won't even have the dogs ''fixed'' lol. It's just mental anguish . I don't want her to force him into something so big like taking away his ''Manhood'' and then him hating her for it.

It's ironic isn't it because the definition of a "real" man in my book is a man who takes care of his family whatever that entails. No question about it IMO.

I agree with you missy
Also, I don't buy into the argument that a man is simply to scared, macho, etc. to have a vasectomy. It's an excuse. period. and a lame one at that.

Momhappy, I really think that's a little harsh. I know the idea of a man refusing to "man-up" on this is absolutely, totally maddening after everything a wife goes through, but men's masculinity means as much to them as our femininity means to us. Maybe you think it's lame, but those feelings are real to the one feeling them. It may not be fair to the marriage, but it's his body and he has a right to refuse surgery on it. Imagine if the topic was a man trying to cajole a woman into being sterilized with arguments, threats of marriage counseling, no sex etc - there'd be an outcry! Packrat, I'm not saying you are doing that at all, I'm saying that Momhappy's attitude and some others appears to be basically "Do it or else." I think that's wrong.

Of course he should do it and take one for the team - of course he should! But the reality is that he doesn't want to and I just think that choice needs to be accepted. Yes, marriage is a team but of course we remain individuals too, and this is such a personal choice.

You are entitled to your opinion. I don't think that mine is harsh. I still think it's a lame excuse to claim that a man is simply too macho, too scared, too busy, etc. to have a vasectomy. If a man truly didn't want a vasectomy because they were not 100% sure that they were done having children, then that would be a different story, but that's not what seems to be what some of the women here are dealing with.
Also, marriage counseling isn't a threat - it's a way to resolve issues. I just wanted to mention that
In the end, your'e right, every one has a right to do what they want with their own bodies. I can still think it's lame if a man won't take one for the team (assuming he's done having children) after years and years of BC, pregnancies, babies, etc.

 

[packrat]

I only have about 2 seconds but I wanted to say that I'm not using withholding as a punishment or anything, at least not in my eyes. It's more a direct result of choices. He has options. He can get a vasectomy, he can use condoms. He chooses to do neither, so...I don't know what else I'm left with, other than, again, taking care of it myself, which as mentioned above, reinforces the behavior) Which really gets old after a while. I've taken care of it for 16 years, and since if there were to be an oops, *I'm* the one who has to be pregnant and have a third c section, (and stay up w/the newborn and nurse and take care of everything, for years again) when he's the one who has said multiple times having our second was scary for him b/c it was so hard on me and he was glad we decided not to have anymore b/c he was worried it would end up killing me, I think it's just completely unfair.

 

[VRBeauty]

...men's masculinity means as much to them as our femininity means to us.

If masculinity or femininity is tied to the ability to procreate... what does that say about those of us who cannot do so for whatever reason? We're not brood animals - at least I'd like to think that we've progressed beyond that.

I don't have any answers or advice, but just wanted to pop in and give you a virtual hug, Packrat. I'm totally feeling your frustration and your sense of being let down by your hubby. I personally think couples counseling is in order here and if he won't consider that, then individual counselling.

 

[Jambalaya]

...men's masculinity means as much to them as our femininity means to us.

If masculinity or femininity is tied to the ability to procreate... what does that say about those of us who cannot do so for whatever reason? We're not brood animals - at least I'd like to think that we've progressed beyond that.

I don't have any answers or advice, but just wanted to pop in and give you a virtual hug, Packrat. I'm totally feeling your frustration and your sense of being let down by your hubby. I personally think couples counseling is in order here and if he won't consider that, then individual counselling.

I did not say that masculinity and femininity were all and only about the ability to procreate. There is no need to roll your eyes at me, VR Beauty. That icon is very rude. I meant masculinity and femininity as whole concepts. Those two concepts exist. They are why SOME women like to do their hair and make-up and also not wanting to lose their femininity is the reason why SOME women choose reconstructions after breast cancer surgery because FOR THEM maintaining their shape is tied to their feelings of feminine identity. For SOME women this is seen as so important that healthcare plans in many states are mandated to cover that surgery. I am using SOME to communicate that this is individual and not every women needs reconstruction or hair and make-up to feel feminine, but that many do, and the existing legislation is an acknowledgement that many women want reconstruction. I know that many of my relatives were hurt when others who had never suffered breast cancer said "Oh, I wouldn't bother with all that nonsense!" regarding wanting to still have breasts after breast cancer. That "nonsense" was an integral part of their psychological recovery.

I am saying this to demonstrate that I believe masculine and feminine identities to be huge parts in many people's psyches and to demonstrate that I know it goes way, way beyond any ability to procreate. I thought it was generally understood that these two terms, "masculinity" and "femininity" are all-encompassing concepts to mean a whole range of behaviors and psychology tied to one's identity as a man or a woman. I am surprised that I have to explain this.

Apparently this operation can strike hard at SOME men's psychological notions of strength, virility, and what it means to be a man. These things can be deeply mentally distressing IF a person feels that something is going to affect their masculine or feminine identities, whether it be losing a breast or their long hair or losing their fertility. It may not be correct that anyone is less of a man or women for not having those things, but it may be how the person feels nevertheless, which why people do have wigs and reconstructions and wear makeup....and fear the snip.

 

[Jambalaya]

chemgirl & missy ìt's not the procedure I was refering to. It's oh gosh how to say this I have a felling JD is a macho man will he ever be ready to be ''Less of a Man'' because unfortunately that's how they feel and mentally what does that do to a man? Heck my DH is so freakin macho he won't even have the dogs ''fixed'' lol. It's just mental anguish . I don't want her to force him into something so big like taking away his ''Manhood'' and then him hating her for it.

It's ironic isn't it because the definition of a "real" man in my book is a man who takes care of his family whatever that entails. No question about it IMO.

I agree with you missy
Also, I don't buy into the argument that a man is simply to scared, macho, etc. to have a vasectomy. It's an excuse. period. and a lame one at that.

Momhappy, I really think that's a little harsh. I know the idea of a man refusing to "man-up" on this is absolutely, totally maddening after everything a wife goes through, but men's masculinity means as much to them as our femininity means to us. Maybe you think it's lame, but those feelings are real to the one feeling them. It may not be fair to the marriage, but it's his body and he has a right to refuse surgery on it. Imagine if the topic was a man trying to cajole a woman into being sterilized with arguments, threats of marriage counseling, no sex etc - there'd be an outcry! Packrat, I'm not saying you are doing that at all, I'm saying that Momhappy's attitude and some others appears to be basically "Do it or else." I think that's wrong.

Of course he should do it and take one for the team - of course he should! But the reality is that he doesn't want to and I just think that choice needs to be accepted. Yes, marriage is a team but of course we remain individuals too, and this is such a personal choice.

You are entitled to your opinion. I don't think that mine is harsh. I still think it's a lame excuse to claim that a man is simply too macho, too scared, too busy, etc. to have a vasectomy. If a man truly didn't want a vasectomy because they were not 100% sure that they were done having children, then that would be a different story, but that's not what seems to be what some of the women here are dealing with.
Also, marriage counseling isn't a threat - it's a way to resolve issues. I just wanted to mention that
In the end, your'e right, every one has a right to do what they want with their own bodies. I can still think it's lame if a man won't take one for the team (assuming he's done having children) after years and years of BC, pregnancies, babies, etc.

Maybe JD is scared and finds it hard to articulate that to his wife. I mean, he must have his reasons - it's not like he's sitting there going "Oh, I could easily have a vasectomy, it doesn't bother me at all, but I won't do it just to annoy Packrat." I'm thinking that he has reasons, reasons that are valid from his point of view. Perhaps Packrat needs to sit him down and ask exactly what it is that bothers him so much. Maybe he just doesn't like the finality of such a decision. Maybe he's just squeamish - I mean, he wouldn't be the first. The world is full of people who need go to the dentist or the doctor and avoid them for years because they're scared. I had a minor op for my first-ever surgery years ago and I was terrified - it was such a non-event in the end and my fear was out of all proportion, but it felt very real to me, I can tell you! Maybe JD has never had surgery. Maybe his stance is lame, but Packrat has to work with what she's got - with how things are, not how she wishes them to be. I am sure he contributes to their life and their marriage in multiple other ways? It would be a pity to reduce everything to a battle over bc - this is not a small issue, but surely the marriage is bigger than this issue. I guess I'm advising some perspective. I do understand that it must be hugely frustrating, but if a person feels this way, then they feel this way.