Tubal Ligation

[Rhea]

Is an IUD an option? It's much longer term with incredibly limited side effects. I have the plastic hormonal one and notice no negative effects like I did with BC pills. We said long ago that we didn't want children, we're in our 30s now, but we also didn't want anything permanent. I'm leaving room for us to changed our minds, I didn't want a rash mid-20s decision. My IUD gets replaced every 5 years in a GP's office with 2 or 3 visits. In the US it was 2 visits, but the UK needs 1 more because of how the NHS works. For co-pay in the US it was super cheap and then just the normal 2 visits co-pay. After that, done for 5 years!

I get the impression that IUD are used much less in the US than in Europe but because I didn't see it mentioned in this thread I thought I'd throw it out there. It's basically nearly perfect, long-term, hassle free, low failure rate, cheap, and pain free.

 

[momhappy]

My IUD experience was anything but perfect....I had to have it removed after less than 6 months due to some rather unpleasant complications. IUDs can be a good option for some, but not others. It's worth looking into though because if it works for you, then it can be a hassle-free form of BC. I just had two friends get an IUD and so far, both of them are liking it.
I can't do IUDs, diagrams are gross, condoms are not ideal, and certain BC pills make me sick. After years of being in charge of BC, much like PackRat, I'm sick of it too The only reason why I haven't pushed for the vasectomy yet is that I can't say with 100% certainty that I wouldn't have another child. When the time comes, however, I will escort him to the vasectomy consultation and get the ball rolling.

 

[Rhea]

My IUD experience was anything but perfect....I had to have it removed after less than 6 months due to some rather unpleasant complications. IUDs can be a good option for some, but not others.

Of course that's true. As is the case with all forms of BC. I welcome your opinion, but please don't phrase your comments as though I said it was good option for everyone. My comments, statements, and experiences are clearly my opinion and not everyone's experience.

 

[momhappy]

My IUD experience was anything but perfect....I had to have it removed after less than 6 months due to some rather unpleasant complications. IUDs can be a good option for some, but not others.

Of course that's true. As is the case with all forms of BC. I welcome your opinion, but please don't phrase your comments as though I said it was good option for everyone. My comments, statements, and experiences are clearly my opinion and not everyone's experience.

I was adding to my post to clarify at the same time that you posted I apologize if my post made you feel that I was responding in a way that was true for everyone - I understood that it was your personal experience. I wish that my experience had been the same, actually, because I really wanted the IUD to work for me.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

When the time comes, however, I will escort him to the vasectomy consultation and get the ball rolling.

No need to roll balls. A simple snip is all it takes

(did you honestly thing you would get away with that figure of speech on this thread of all places? )

 

[momhappy]

^
I didn't even think of the terminology. I should have said, "get the balls rolling"

 

[stracci2000]

^
I didn't even think of the terminology. I should have said, "get the balls rolling"

Haha, you girls make me laugh!!

Oh Packrat--so sorry you are dealing with this!
I have an IUD, and it is good for me. No problems whatsoever, and the most wonderful thing is that my periods have stopped!

 

[jess719]

When we were done having children, I really wanted my husband to get snipped. It is supposed to be so much easier for them, and I had really rough pregnancies both times with complications during recovery. He said he would look into it, and he did. After researching, he said he did not want to do it. I was so mad!!

It was not the immediate pain and recovery that was the problem, it was the possibility of complications later, however small they might be. Pain every time you finish the deed was number one on his worry list. So, I began researching as well, and I decided there was no way I could try to manipulate him to do it. I would never forgive myself if he was one of the few men who ended up with lifelong complications. I later found out that men who have had the procedure have a higher rate of cancer in that area.

I def. didn't want any more kids. I told him I was going to have that essure procedure done. I know you ruled it out, but it has been wonderful for us. I had slight cramping for one day. And my dye test came back saying I'm completely blocked.

The deal was, if I had it done, he had to take care of EVERYTHING until I felt better. (I might have milked the not supposed to do anything for an additional three days). He took care of the house, the kids, meals, everything.

I'm glad I listened to him, and if something really did go wrong, there is a doc here in Houston that does Essure reversals.

Best of luck in your decision!

 

[packrat]

I feel like I talked about an IUD several years ago w/Dr and we decided it wasn't going to work for me..but I couldn't say why. I remember getting fitted for a diaphragm instead and I didn't like it, which was when I started Nuvaring. Dr retired now so we have a different Dr. I can revisit the thought tho since I don't have the slightest clue why she and I decided against it. I'd be totally ok w/no more periods.

It would never happen that we could make a deal in which he would take care of everything during my recovery. He took the day off when I had my T&A and napped on the couch all day while I cleaned and did laundry.

Ha I guess regardless I'll be taking care of someone, either myself or him.

I think I've pretty much brought this all on myself. It's been the same since we got married-I've always taken everything upon myself and done everything I can to make his life easier b/c that's what the wife is supposed to do, based on my parents marriage, and what she's always said to me-"it's easier to just do it yourself" And now, we have kids, and I've been pulling in the opposite direction ever since-I certainly don't want London to think her lot in life is to cater to her husband and I don't want Trapper to think he doesn't have to have any expectations..it's just getting more pronounced at this point.

I will bring it up to him again and see what he says and try to delve into it a little more to find out if he really and truly is planning to do this or not.

 

[Jambalaya]

Hugs, Packrat xxxxx That sounds tough. It sounds as if the dynamic has been set, and it's true that dynamics are very hard to change, but perhaps you could do it. Start small, with smaller tasks, and lots of positive reinforcements. I hear ya, though. Easier to do it yourself. I have soooo lived with people like that. But he loves you and maybe if you sat him down and explained in detail how fed up you are, how tired you are, and how much you don't want this model for your kids, perhaps he will work with you? Appeal to his better nature, so to speak. I doubt he wants London to serve a man, and studies show that men raised in households where they are expected to help with chores have happier marriages, because they share the workload with a spouse. So just as you mentioned, it's better if Trapper sees his dad doing stuff around the house.

I have lived with two people who just would not do anything around the house, didn't care if it was a dump, and it drove me insane. In ten years, one man never changed a lightbulb, a hand towel, or changed the vacuum cleaner bag. It was all me. Can you believe I had to change every single lightbulb, balancing on a stack of stuff? It's very depressing because it makes your life such a grind. You have my sympathy. But don't give up trying to get what you want - more help around the house.

 

[sonnyjane]

I have lived with two people who just would not do anything around the house, didn't care if it was a dump, and it drove me insane. In ten years, one man never changed a lightbulb, a hand towel, or changed the vacuum cleaner bag. It was all me. Can you believe I had to change every single lightbulb, balancing on a stack of stuff? It's very depressing because it makes your life such a grind. You have my sympathy. But don't give up trying to get what you want - more help around the house.

You certainly didn't HAVE to change every single light bulb. You chose to stay with someone that didn't pitch in so you assumed those responsibilities. Everything's a trade-off. It's incredibly cliche, but "you treat people how to treat you". If you CHOOSE to do everything around the house and not hold your partner accountable, then you surrender your right to complain about it.

I'm sorry you're going through this packrat. I would like my DH to get snipped but I'm giving him a few more years before I bring it up. Right now he's only 30 and we have no children (childless by choice), but doctors are reluctant to snip at a young age if you have no children.

 

[Jambalaya]

I did have to, because he wouldn't do it. You can hold people accountable all you like but you can't force someone to behave the way you want them to. I am not complaining, I was sharing. I solved the problem by leaving him. And since he wouldn't do it, I don't agree that doing it myself was a choice. My eyes were weaker than his and I needed light to see by so I wouldn't trip over all the seemingly endless wires on the floor. Changing the lightbulbs comes under the heading of "needs", not "choices." We choose where to go on vacation. We need light to see by. It's not always possible to change others' behaviors and much of what we do is in reaction to others. We don't operate in vacuums. I also had a room-mate who would not do anything - she just refused. She didn't care if there were dishes in the sink crusted with food - she genuinely didn't care. This is a person who was such a slob that she didn't even own a garbage can! Yeah, garbage everywhere! There was no changing her with boundaries and teaching her how to treat me - no siree. She was gonna do what she was gonna do. I got a better roommate.

When I read a response like yours, it makes me wonder if the writer has ever known or lived with anyone truly, deeply intractable.

Those people lived alone for many, many years and probably still are, which was probably best for them. They simply could not compromise or consider anyone else's needs. I don't accept your blaming me for stepping into the breach. The person who exhibited bad, selfish behavior is to blame. I was merely empathizing with Packrat as I've been in a similar situation in the past, so I can totally see why she does the same. It's easy to say when you're not the one in the tight spot. (Although I'm not sure if JD is as stubborn as that, or if she just needs to express what she wants more forcefully.)

I then had a relationship with someone who, although not a domestic god, did have his limits for mess and if I didn't step into the breach, he would do so, after a while. I think that's more "the norm." But some people are truly immovable and no amount of "teach them how to treat you" works.

Sonnyjane, since Packrat is in a similar situation as I was in, doing everything as described by her in this thread, presumably all the things you said to me, you also mean as advice for her? Or is what you said only applicable to my situation? As I said, mine is in the past and Packrat's continues, so I'm just wondering why you directed your well-meaning advice about how to handle it to me? It seems that what you said would also apply perfectly to Packrat's situation. I'm confused as to why I got the advice about a situation I long since gave the karate chop to! But don't get me wrong, I value your advice which I know was well-intentioned, if irrelevant at this time, and will put it away in my mind for if I ever need it in the future.

Anyway, Packrat, you are not alone. I know it's very difficult to be in that situation. But hopefully you'll make some headway. (((Hugs)))

 

[Jambalaya]

A general thought of mine is that I keep thinking how I would feel if I knew someone wanted me to be sterilized and I didn't want to be. I wouldn't feel good about it. I do feel quite strongly that a person should have free choice over whether they are sterilized, meaning that there shouldn't be any negative consequences for not doing it. I know it's not fair and that Packrat obviously did the heavy lifting of pregnancy, childbirth and everything, but JD didn't make biology the way it is. It isn't his fault that women are the ones who have the kids. Rightly or wrongly, he doesn't seem to want to do it, and I think that men as well as women should have control over their reproductive choices.

There are lots of other methods of contraception. I know they're not perfect, but another method seems to be the most peaceable option for the moment. The diaphragm-and-spermicide combo does have a lot going for it - no hormones, no barrier, and you are in control. Just a thought.

 

[packrat]

Just a drive by post before the kids come and chaos begin and I'm a gibbering mess in the corner.

Yeah, I accept responsibility to a certain extent. However. I've been thru the no lightbulb thing, crazily enough--"oh shoot, the last bulb burned out-did you ever get bulbs like you planned?" "no, i"ll do it this afternoon"...that afternoon, are you going to get them or do you want me to do it? No I'll do it. The next morning, do you want me to do it or do you want to get them? I'll do it. The next day, do you want me to do it or are you going to do it? After 2 months of making supper by the light that comes in from the living room and over the sink, my mom finally said Oh good lord, and bought bulbs herself and changed them. I went 2 weeks not putting the garbage out b/c he said he was going to do it..maggots all over the outside of the can..I did it myself finally. He grew up in a hoarder house, literally, something from tv-so he's not put off by disgusting messes. He'll step over cat barf for days on end, maybe if he's feeling generous he'll put a paper towel over it so I know it's there to clean up. He will clean up after the dog is she has an accident b/c animal urine is something he spent his entire childhood being teased about. So, yanno, I prefer to not have to wear a hazmat suit in my house. I refuse to clean his bathroom downstairs--and he won't. If I took a picture and posted it...that would be horrifyingly embarrassing. He doesn't clean up his hair after he shaves, so it looks like clumps of bugs all over the room. He doesn't pick up the garbage can after it is full...it's piled all over the floor. The inside of the shower is a pink/red b/c of whatever kind of mold/mildew/soap scum is all over. It used to be the only time I could get him to clean his bathroom is when we had our yearly bbq..we've not done that in 4 or 5 years. If that gives you an idea of the last time he cleaned it.

My parents help us w/our business, help us w/production. Dad asked me the other day how to light a fire under his ass. I said I dunno, but don't tell him you'll have sex w/him if he does something b/c he still won't do it. (which dad knows b/c they took the kids one night so he and I could have alone time b/c I mentioned in jest one day that maybe if we had sex he would start the kitchen remodel that he's been promising me for 5 years now. Dad came the next day and said "I don't see him in there tearing out that wall, did you play hard to get?" No, he just isn't going to get it done regardless. (that was our last time, and I think that was february) Dad said the other day "it's like pulling teeth to get that man to do *anything*." (b/c we're behind on production, and it happens to be the things he's the only one that can do, go figure) Um, der, tell me about it.

Gah bus is here.

 

[momhappy]

^^No one here is saying that you should force sterilization on someone who doesn't want to be sterilized. The reasons here have included things like too scared, too busy, too macho, etc. to be sterilized and to some of us, those are just excuses that just won't cut it in certain scenarios. Packrat said in her first post that her DH said that he would have it done, but then something has always come up that has prevented him from doing it. She also mentioned that they have discussed the fact that they are done having children. I haven't heard her mention that her DH told her that he simply doesn't want to be sterilized because if he had, then this thread probably wouldn't even exist. I agree with you, jambalaya, that no one should be forced into sterilization, but the doesn't sound like the issues that we're dealing with here.

 

[Jambalaya]

Momhappy - but people are advocating pressure. I know Packrat isn't pressuring, since her solution is to look into surgery for herself, but some of the responses make it clear that others here would push hard for him to get sterilized and it's obvious there would be negative consequences at home if he didn't. I would pressure about a lot of things, but we're talking about pressuring someone into sterilizing themselves, and if it were me under that pressure, man, I would feel bad. I know it's unfair, but when it comes to things as personal as this, if someone is determined not to do it, a person's probably better off accepting that. JMO.

Of course, there's the issue of whether it's simply abject fear about the procedure itself, or if he has a deep psychological aversion to making himself infertile forever. The former is more easily overcome.

 

[Jambalaya]

Packrat - that all sounds awful. Are you sure we weren't with the same man?? Being charitable, is it possible that he might have ADHD?

His behavior isn't your fault for not "teaching him how to treat you" and all that. You can be a model of textbook psychology, but if the other person refuses to respond, what then? You did leave the lightbulbs for two months, and you left the garbage until it had maggots. You tried very hard not to do things yourself. What were you supposed to do, live in the dark and have a house infested with critters? His behavior is his to own up to, and you are not to blame at all for not "teaching him how to treat you" IMO. Maybe it takes someone who's been there, done that to understand that not everybody responds to training, to put it mildly.

Maybe ask him in a curious, non-judgmental way, ¨JD, why is it that you won´t get round to doing anything? Do you feel depressed? Don´t you find the state of your bathroom unpleasant? It´s so much nicer when things are clean, don´t you think? And I do get so tired from doing everything.¨

If he never does anything at all in the house, is happy to live in a pigsty, and also can´t get round to things, I do wonder if he might be suffering from a low-grade depression and/or ADHD, or crippling anxiety, or something. Just a thought.

 

[House Cat]

Just a drive by post before the kids come and chaos begin and I'm a gibbering mess in the corner.

Yeah, I accept responsibility to a certain extent. However. I've been thru the no lightbulb thing, crazily enough--"oh shoot, the last bulb burned out-did you ever get bulbs like you planned?" "no, i"ll do it this afternoon"...that afternoon, are you going to get them or do you want me to do it? No I'll do it. The next morning, do you want me to do it or do you want to get them? I'll do it. The next day, do you want me to do it or are you going to do it? After 2 months of making supper by the light that comes in from the living room and over the sink, my mom finally said Oh good lord, and bought bulbs herself and changed them. I went 2 weeks not putting the garbage out b/c he said he was going to do it..maggots all over the outside of the can..I did it myself finally. He grew up in a hoarder house, literally, something from tv-so he's not put off by disgusting messes. He'll step over cat barf for days on end, maybe if he's feeling generous he'll put a paper towel over it so I know it's there to clean up. He will clean up after the dog is she has an accident b/c animal urine is something he spent his entire childhood being teased about. So, yanno, I prefer to not have to wear a hazmat suit in my house. I refuse to clean his bathroom downstairs--and he won't. If I took a picture and posted it...that would be horrifyingly embarrassing. He doesn't clean up his hair after he shaves, so it looks like clumps of bugs all over the room. He doesn't pick up the garbage can after it is full...it's piled all over the floor. The inside of the shower is a pink/red b/c of whatever kind of mold/mildew/soap scum is all over. It used to be the only time I could get him to clean his bathroom is when we had our yearly bbq..we've not done that in 4 or 5 years. If that gives you an idea of the last time he cleaned it.

My parents help us w/our business, help us w/production. Dad asked me the other day how to light a fire under his a$$. I said I dunno, but don't tell him you'll have sex w/him if he does something b/c he still won't do it. (which dad knows b/c they took the kids one night so he and I could have alone time b/c I mentioned in jest one day that maybe if we had sex he would start the kitchen remodel that he's been promising me for 5 years now. Dad came the next day and said "I don't see him in there tearing out that wall, did you play hard to get?" No, he just isn't going to get it done regardless. (that was our last time, and I think that was february) Dad said the other day "it's like pulling teeth to get that man to do *anything*." (b/c we're behind on production, and it happens to be the things he's the only one that can do, go figure) Um, der, tell me about it.

Gah bus is here.

Did he really grow up in a hoarder's house? When I see the children in those homes, their needs are chronically unmet. Most of the time, the children are playing the part of parent to the hoarder. When kids grow up this way, they have no idea how to take care of themselves/meet their own needs. Even if they grow up with a milder form of a hoarder, this can happen.

Theory... all speculation based on my personal experience...take what works:

There are people who tune out and people who tune in. I know a breed of human who tunes out and goes into automatic pilot, they make great military personnel, cops, firefighters, paramedics, etc. My husband is one of these and he is a Marine. He was fed controlled amounts of trauma during Bootcamp. This created a mechanism that causes him to tune out really, really well when things get over stimulating. He's super amazing during an emergency...man I love that about him! But if I am getting really emotional, which I tend to do because hey, that is WHO I AM!!! forget it, after a few minutes, his eyes glaze over and I lose him.

This mechanism in my husband was working overtime when our son was very young. His lack of sleep, me having no sleep, house a mess, older kids in trouble, no money, baby crying, yeah, the guy was TUNED OUT! What doesn't help is that I tune in with laser focus. I am almost diagnosed OCD and I see EVERYTHING. Sometimes it is a gift because I am very detail oriented and sometimes it is a curse because, like I said, I am very detail oriented. There was a time when I just couldn't understand WHY my husband didn't see the things that I could see. Why couldn't he hear the baby crying? Why didn't he see that huge mess on the floor? Why couldn't he smell the rotten chicken in the trash?


His parents didn't take very good care of him either.


The other factor you have is that your husband is in a job that is very stimulating. He might have to use all of his ability to tune in at his job and then he might come in the front door with his head abuzz and need to just tune out. This isn't a voluntary mechanism for him. This just happens.

It seems voluntary. It doesn't make your life easier.


The only way I could ever get through to my husband was to actually touch him, grab his arm gently, look him in the eye, and speak to him gently, from the heart. If I was angry, he would tune me out. If I cried, tune out. If I used language that imparted guilt, tune out. With time and gentle communication and the kids growing up, he was able to stay present.

When I learned about this tuning out mechanism, I gave up on a lot of battles. I have my issues too. They aren't voluntary either. That tune in laser-like focus makes me a freak about germs and safety. Everyone in the house has to tolerate it so that I don't see them dying in my head. I know it isn't rational and I work on it every day, but truthfully it IS what it IS.

We all tolerate one another's stuff because we love them. Whenever you have described your relationship in the past, you have described a really beautiful marriage built on friendship. I have a feeling that none of what he is doing is careless or personal. Maybe his tuning out on these issues have nothing at all to do with you. Maybe it is just a protective mechanism that has gone a bit haywire.

 

[Matata]

Packrat, the more you contribute to this thread, the more enlightening it becomes. The birth control issue is a symptom of deeper issues which I alluded to earlier in the conversation and his vasectomy procrastination is consistent with all the behavior you've recently described. From your description, it appears that JD is showing the effects of the environment in which he grew up. His lack of ability to get anything done imho looks like a leftover protective mechanism so he doesn't have to engage in things he find unpleasant or is ill equipped to handle. You've lived with it for a long time. You'll have to decide if you want to live with it forever, if he is unwilling to make some movement on self-improvement. I think he would benefit from long-term counseling.

I can relate a bit because my DH does nothing around the house except for taking out the garbage occasionally for which he expects heaps of praise. He was raised as the first and favored son of a wealthy family whose ambition was to raise a successful doctor. They succeeded. He was also pampered and spoiled. He had 2 children with his first wife. She worked, raised the kids, took care of the house, helped him run his practice. He felt that his free time should be spent engaged in his favorite leisure activities and would leave her with the kids while he recreated. HIs attitude was that he worked hard and deserved his down time to de-stress--she was wife and mother and in charge of wife/mother things because that's what his mom did.

I knew all this before I married him. He's improved a lot because I told him quite clearly what my non-negotiables were. He is blind to things dropped on the floor, his bathroom is an environmental hazard, he doesn't know which end of a hammer to pound with, and he is utterly oblivious about it takes to run the house or where anything in the house belongs. I found some wineglasses in the pots and pans drawer. When I asked him why he put them there, he said he didn't know where they went even though every morning he sits beside the china cabinet in the dining room where the glasses are clearly visible. When I buy new furniture, it takes him at least a year to notice. Last year when the roof sprung a leak, he casually mentioned that the sunroom was flooding and what should we do about it. Ok, you get the picture.

I did the scale balance trick. What did I love about him, what drove me crazy, what was worth the fight and what wasn't. He provides me with a wonderful life. He's generous, hard-working, and kind and puts up living with a crazy cat lady who is stubborn, independent, and getting quite crotchety in her old age. We have a housekeeper because one of the non-negotiables was that I would not clean up his messes or enter his bathroom unless he was trapped in there while the house was burning down. We hire someone to fix things around the house because neither of us has the interest or skill. He recreates on his own, I do my thing, and we find things to do together.

Long windy story, sorry. The point is that both people have to be willing to compromise and decide together how to keep the scale balanced. It can't always be balanced, but there are ways to keep it mostly balanced. It takes the participation of both people to make it work. You are carrying a much larger load and the scale is waaay off balance. You are the functional person in a dysfunctional relationship and you have some difficult decisions to make.

 

[purplesparklies]

I don't have anything to add, Packrat. After reading your most recent post, I just wanted to say that I am so sorry that you are dealing with all of this. Frankly, it sounds nearly unbearable and horribly unfair to you and your children. On multiple levels. You have already been infinitely more patient and accepting of his behavior than I can even imagine being. Please make sure you are being respected and appreciated. Life is too short to accept less.

 

[packrat]

Yeah, it was a hoarder house. He lived in a neighboring town, and it was just a bad situation all around for him. Mother was a drunk and caused problems in the town, which, being a super teeny tiny small town, they took out on him. Tons of animals that were never cleaned up after, peed on his clothes etc. He learned to try and take care of himself best he could, got himself to school and tried to do sports. School was the only place he was able to eat a meal, summers he spent at his grandmother's. The house caught fire from all the newspapers and went up like a torch. Most of the town stood across the street and watched it burn rather than call the fire dept. (no dept in that town, too small) We met when I was 18, he was 19. I didn't know anything of his background at all, not even up until we were practically married-he just didn't talk about it ever. When we were friends, he and my brother lived together and I remember my brother having shit fits over the state of the house. I used to give him hell about it back in the day too. Then they moved to separate places b/c my brother was losing his mind. We'd all go to JD's house to hang out and give him crap b/c he'd let dishes pile up until there were bugs and then he'd just throw them away and buy new. My brother still tells the story about the time the dog jumped on the couch and started rooting around in the cushions and came out w/a piece of pizza.

When we started friends w/benefits, I started the "Oh hey, let's get these dishes done quick and then watch that movie" type stuff. When it became more than that, I started pushing more. And I did sit down w/him after we were engaged and tell him I was postponing the wedding b/c I felt that I couldn't handle how things were. I told him that once I could see that he was really and truly wanting to run a household like an adult and not expecting me to do it all (hell I didn't even live there), we could set a new date, but not until then, and not "Oh I did the dishes w/out you asking me to". He was SO MAD I can't even tell you. I just said "you know what, I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with *you* not picking up after you like a mom and her baby." It's a sign of respect as well, to take care of your own stuff and not expect your wife to pick up your dirty qtips that you left on the end table after you cleaned your ears. To me that's like a slap in the face.

it's been a slow progression back it seems. When we first got married, my dad flipped out on me and said I was too hard on him and I was going to make him resent me and leave b/c nobody wanted to put up w/my bullshit. I'm like OMG seriously?? I've known this man for *years* and I know what will happen. Dad threw a fit about how spoiled I was and how I expected the impossible, so I let up. And look where it got me.

I can see where there could be some depression. In both of us. He's brought it up about me a few times, like how glad he was when I started at the preschool and I seemed happier, that he had been getting concerned about me. Well, it gets depressing to put everyone else first *all* the time, and be put last on everyone's list myself. To watch him set up hunting and fishing trips for himself and notify me in passing, so I'm left sitting there like really? I'm having my mom sew the holes in my underwear b/c we don't have any money, I'm wearing things that are see thru b/c they're so old and worn out, I'm using hotel soaps in the shower that mom saves when they go on trips, I'm doing all this stuff so you can go hunting and I can stay home and take care of the kids and clean the house?? When Trapper was little, I almost took the kids and left. Several times.

He is not one for counseling. I tape the old episodes of Dr. Phil and he just can not *stand* that. Nobody is ever to know your business. He would probably see it as the ultimate betrayal for me to even have started this thread, much less poured my heart out to these embarrassing and behind closed doors details.

 

[AdaBeta27]

I lack time, so just dropped in and read only Pg 3 of this. Having worked in manufacturing settings with lots of fire and explosion potential, and currently living in a community that I would describe as "a lower-socioeconomic dump" on a good day, and a crime and drug infested cesspool of scum on an average day, here is how I deal with worries and fears and "what-ifs." What I do is sit down and make myself think through whatever this bad event and it's consequences may be. Sure, something *could* happen, but just how statistically likely is it to happen? And how likely is it that I can actually "get away with" whatever I am contemplating doing, without, say, getting injured or physically attacked or car-jacked or whatever it is that I am worrying about. Often, the answer is "Disaster could happen, but in truth, it's very unlikely that it will happen." Then my followup is to let my mind roll through the possible negative outcomes and necessary actions and life-changing realities that would need to be dealt with, should this bad thing occur. This helps me to gauge whether or not the amount of risk involved is appropriate, and/or whether or not my level of fear is appropriate or it's unreasonable or out of control. Even in a bad situation, having one or more escape avenues identified helps one think and act more rationally.
Overall, only some small fraction of what we worry about ever actually happens. Most of the time, nothing really bad will happen.

 

[Jambalaya]

Oh, Packrat, that just sounds so awful. And poor JD - it sounds as if he has had a ton of obstacles to overcome from his childhood. It doesn't sounds as if he is the way he is to annoy you, but it sounds like he's that way because he has issues.

When you have kept the house clean and straight, does he enjoy that? Respond to it? Does he see value in having a clean home? See, to me it's a very valuable thing to have a clean and organized space, but I swear it meant less than nothing to that room-mate I had. Perhaps, due to his upbringing, he just doesn't care about his environment, since he survived childhood without a pleasant environment. Maybe he doesn't see any added value to his life by having a clean, tidy house. I dunno - I'm just guessing.

It sounds as if his ways are pretty entrenched, and if he won't try counseling, I'm not sure what you can do. You can encourage him back to being better, the way it was before your dad contributed his two cents. Alternatively, would he clean with you, kind of like an activity you could do together? I'm clutching at straws here.

Where someone's housework problems are so deeply entrenched and all related to a childhood of neglect, I can see why you just do things yourself. You're right - they would truly never get done otherwise.

It's tough, and I feel for you, I do. What do you do when you love many things about someone and you have a great laugh and a friendship together, but they have some flaws which make being around them almost unbearable in some ways? I wish I had answers for you. In your position I'd probably do what you've been doing, which is to do it myself. I know that's against the textbooks, but when someone's behavior is truly entrenched, it's either do it yourself or have maggots, right? It's not much of a choice.

Hugs to you, Packrat xxxx

P.S. Is JD still a police officer? You mentioned having a business so I wondered if he had left the police. If so, maybe he wishes he was back on the job?

 

[Jambalaya]

Packrat, just another thought. This is a little drastic and it depends how fed up you are and how much you want to see some change, but is taking the kids and going to your parents' for a while an option? If JD sees that he might ultimately lose you, maybe that'll be the catalyst for change. You wouldn't be the first wife to do this.

 

[azstonie]

Packrat, you're in a key position in your life right now. Decide what is wrong, what is bothering you,what is being a poor husband and a poor parent. Decide what can be delegated and paid for (housekeeper on weekly basis, handyman as needed basis, mother's helper in the afternoon to help keep children supervised and amused, grocery delivery, etc), what the 3 dealbreakers are, and what you can overlook. THEN ACT.

 

[azstonie]

You're the most qualified steward of your own life---no one cares more than you do.

 

[purplesparklies]

^^^ Wise words from azstonie.

 

[AdaBeta27]

...is taking the kids and going to your parents' for a while an option? ...

That might not be an option for everyone. My mother said she did that, once, packed up and moved home over Thanksgiving school break with 2 kids in tow, ages 2 and 4. On day two, my grandfather announced that he and my grandmother were leaving and going to their hunting camp, because having other people, especially children, in the house just was not their lifestyle anymore. My mother promptly packed us up and went back to her home. Sometimes, the grands are just DONE with the family life, and your kids and marriage are your own problem to deal with.

 

[Jambalaya]

No, not everyone's parents would be OK with that, which is why I asked her the question, is that an option?

 

[iLander]

My IUD experience was anything but perfect....I had to have it removed after less than 6 months due to some rather unpleasant complications. IUDs can be a good option for some, but not others. It's worth looking into though because if it works for you, then it can be a hassle-free form of BC. I just had two friends get an IUD and so far, both of them are liking it.
I can't do IUDs, diagrams are gross, condoms are not ideal, and certain BC pills make me sick. After years of being in charge of BC, much like PackRat, I'm sick of it too The only reason why I haven't pushed for the vasectomy yet is that I can't say with 100% certainty that I wouldn't have another child. When the time comes, however, I will escort him to the vasectomy consultation and get the ball rolling.

Agree.

I don't want to see any diagrams of that stuff either.



Just a joke . . .