Upgrading to 4ct - need advice

[sledge]

Thanks for running the HCA, @sledge! It is a VS2 with no clouds, excellent polish and faint floro, so milkiness/haziness shouldn't be a concern. And I don't see anything in the video that would raise alarms for any colored hues or obstruction...although obviously, it needs to be viewed IRL and under different lighting to get a real feel for that. Personally, I think it's worth considering if it meets your parameters, @miimac7. I like that it is a G since color is more obvious in larger diamonds. Adiamor has a solid return policy and hopefully can provide additional images if you are interested.

No prob. Hope you didn't think I was attacking your recommendation. The request to check for hues was based on the other stone we saw earlier that had the brown tint associated. That earlier stone just looked like it had a bad video, so I missed the brown tint. Trying to make sure that doesn't happen again. Also, I misread the clarity plot earlier. Thought it said surfacing graining not shown which can be an issue sometimes. Generally pinpoints aren't.

Either way, asking if milky/hazy is a legit question. I'd think it's okay too based on video, but I like to be safe when buying via virtual inventory. Remember, most -- but not all -- VS2's are eye clean. So I like to ask and get warm fuzzies, especially when spending close to $100k.

Moving on. Anyone have any comments on this? Red mark appears to the be feather on the clarity plot. And the blue mark is the crystal. So the plot is upside down compared to the video. Either way, the green spot I marked isn't shown. As the video rotates, you can continue to see it also.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Yes. Good recipe for sparkles.

55.8 vs 56.8 table
34.7 vs 34.4 crown angle
15.3 vs 14.9 crown height
40.8 pavilion same

Although crown angle is similar, see how the height changes with that small table. All proportions affect one another.

ETA:
As noted earlier, I also think that "clarity grade based on clouds not shown" is also making the 4.03 not as crisp and fiery.

My stone is 55.9 table
34.8 crown
40.8 pavilion
15.3 crown height
77 LGF

I think it has lots of fire and sparkle so I just wondered if that was what your opinion was based on - thanks!

 

[blueMA]

Just curious as to why you prefer this one - is it the higher crown with smaller table?

Yes, somewhat, but the biggest reason is the video performance of the stones. The 4.16 is noticeably more sparkly, and if I were the OP, I'd have the Whitflash folks confirm the sparkle factors in person side by side.

 

[lovedogs]

Yes, somewhat, but the biggest reason is the video performance of the stones. The 4.16 is noticeably more sparkly, and if I were the OP, I'd have the Whitflash folks confirm the sparkle factors in person side by side.

Agreed with the bold. If I were spending so much $$ I'd want to hear directly from WF about their thoughts and the pros and cons of each potential choice. That's the awesome part about using WF is their outstanding customer service.

 

[LLJsmom]

If I'm understanding you properly, you want quality but not the name brand nor the trade-in policy. Although I am casting a very broad net here, I think this provides a pretty good overview of the various options you will see:

• GIA 3x stones = The net that defines "excellent" is too broad. What happens is you end up with stones that are about as far from excellent as you can imagine, yet still receives that moniker. IMO, it causes confusion in the consumer market if a buyer is truly looking for a well cut stone.
• GIA 3x stones (w/ ideal proportions) = Using the following criteria, we drastically narrow the net to stones that have real potential of being excellent/ideal cut stones:
  • 54-57 table
  • 60-62.4 depth (prefer <62)
  • 34-35 crown (maybe 35.5, only if paired with 40.6 pavilion)
  • 40.6-40.9 pavilion (maybe 41, only if paired with 34 crown)
  • 75-80 LGF (smaller LGF = fatter arrows, and many prefer this)
  • 45-50 stars
  • Angles must be complimentary. Pairing a steep crown & shallow pavilion (35/40.6) or possibly a shallow crown & steep pavilion (34/40.9). Essentially we are trying to find the inverse property of each other. Depending how well (or poorly) cut a stone is will determine if certain angle combos can work.
  • 0-2 HCA score (prefer 1-2, if possible)
• AGS000 stone = Graded by AGS and 0 is their ideal, or best, available grade. The only lab that takes a 3D scan of each stone to accurately & subjectively provide a cut grade. For this reason, AGS is preferred by many here. Some GIA 3x stones that have ideal proportions could also pass AGS000 certification if sent to that lab; however, not all will. All AGS000 stones can achieve GIA 3x grading.
• Super ideal branded stones = Normally carries the AGS000 certification, plus they have true hearts & arrow (H&A) symmetry for the best of the best. It's possible that other stones have true H&A symmetry as well, but more times than not it isn't as precise or perfect. Obviously a well cut stone with perfect symmetry sparkles a little more than one that isn't. There is massive debates over rather or not that is noticeable or not. In addition to top quality stones, you also receive top notch customer service. Stones are vetted and kept in the vendors safe. Complete images are available to make an educated decision. Upgrade & buyback policies are amongst the best.
• IGI/EGL/Uncertified/Other stones = IGI and EGL are not trusted labs; therefore, the data concerning the diamond proportions, color, clarity, etc cannot be relied upon and is never recommended as you simply don't know what you are truly getting. Uncertified stones can be okay if you trust your jeweler. Many here rave about IDJ uncertified stones. I personally think it's worth the small expense to have an independent 3rd party opinion from a trusted lab myself. Quite frankly with the amount of money you will be spending, I wouldn't even think about an uncertified stone unless the jeweler is willing to send to a lab ahead of time to verify. If it passes the criteria they say you buy the stone & pay for the lab fee. If it fails, they eat the lab costs and you can walk.

@sledge This needs to be bookmarked and put into the helpful threads archive.

 

[miimac7]

Yes, somewhat, but the biggest reason is the video performance of the stones. The 4.16 is noticeably more sparkly, and if I were the OP, I'd have the Whitflash folks confirm the sparkle factors in person side by side.

This thread is WAAAAAAYYYYYY over my head, however I’m seriously trying to learn everything that is being discussed. I just can’t keep up! I did request WF do a comparision and they are working on sending me pics and side by side video I will post when I receive. Thanks so much! This help is really appreciated!!!

 

[blueMA]

This thread is WAAAAAAYYYYYY over my head, however I’m seriously trying to learn everything that is being discussed. I just can’t keep up! I did request WF do a comparision and they are working on sending me pics and side by side video I will post when I receive. Thanks so much! This help is really appreciated!!!

The only thing I want to especially point out is that I really hope you're comfortable with the I color. I'm very color sensitive and never go below G, and since you're transitioning from a G-H to an I, I hope you understand the trade-off. The bigger the stone, the more noticeable the tint will be.

 

[miimac7]

Yes this is my concern also. My diamond is not certified and the jeweler said the color is G-H, however in certain light I can sometimes see a faint yellow, so I’m wondering if the color is not more H-I if not even J. When I look at the diamond face up, does not appear to have a tint. I do completely understand that I had more yellow than G and H, however all the advice I have read and been given says that an I should be fine, with excellent cut and in a solitaire. Is not the case?? I was thinking I would set in a 6 prong solitaire, to help the side coverage. I am still waiting on the pics and have not forked over any money yet....

 

[Kaycee2018]

Yes this is my concern also. My diamond is not certified and the jeweler said the color is G-H, however in certain light I can sometimes see a faint yellow, so I’m wondering if the color is not more H-I if not even J. When I look at the diamond face up, does not appear to have a tint. I do completely understand that I had more yellow than G and H, however all the advice I have read and been given says that an I should be fine, with excellent cut and in a solitaire. Is not the case?? I was thinking I would set in a 6 prong solitaire, to help the side coverage. I am still waiting on the pics and have not forked over any money yet....

Even Super Ideals, which have a reputation for "facing up" whiter than their graded color, will show their tint from the side. A 4 ct RB is going to show a lot of side in a 6 prong solitaire setting (in a halo, not so much). Personally, I prefer a more white diamond so I wouldn't go lower than a G, maybe a high H, in a stone that large. If the tint you are seeing in your current diamond isn't bothersome to you, than perhaps an I will be fine. Everyone has a different threshold for color in diamonds.

 

[blueMA]

Yes this is my concern also. My diamond is not certified and the jeweler said the color is G-H, however in certain light I can sometimes see a faint yellow, so I’m wondering if the color is not more H-I if not even J. When I look at the diamond face up, does not appear to have a tint. I do completely understand that I had more yellow than G and H, however all the advice I have read and been given says that an I should be fine, with excellent cut and in a solitaire. Is not the case?? I was thinking I would set in a 6 prong solitaire, to help the side coverage. I am still waiting on the pics and have not forked over any money yet....

It really varies by people. Some are simply more color sensitive than others. Some are bothered by it and some welcome the warmth along with additional play of color. An I at 4 carats, I think you'll definitely notice the tint especially at an angle. Whether you'd be bothered by it or not is completely up to you. Checkout these threads of I stones - do you notice the beauty or the tint?
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...-halo-pave-setting.240793/page-2#post-4348588
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/i-vs-h-color-in-round-diamonds.199354/

 

[miimac7]

Okay we've got pictures!!! I confirmed that the side view is labeled correct and the hand pic goes left to right ( so the 4.16 is the diamond closet to finger nail). I am VERY impressed with the 4.16 I. The SA said that all three are beautiful and she was immediately drawn to the 4.16 I as her preferred. I did not disclose to her my budget or preferences.

Thoughts??

 

[sledge]

D'oh....you and I posted at the same time. Deleting my previous post as it has generic comparisons. You have actual ones here so this data is more valid and relevant.

Still sweet on the 4.16.

 

[Rpb]

4.16 is my choice... So much colourless

 

[blueMA]

Okay we've got pictures!!! I confirmed that the side view is labeled correct and the hand pic goes left to right ( so the 4.16 is the diamond closet to finger nail). I am VERY impressed with the 4.16 I. The SA said that all three are beautiful and she was immediately drawn to the 4.16 I as her preferred. I did not disclose to her my budget or preferences.

Thoughts??

That 4.16 looks just as colorless as the H next to it. You could harass them for side by side video comparisons too. The Whiteflash folks are great!

 

[sledge]

That 4.16 looks just as colorless as the H next to it. You could harass them for side by side video comparisons too. The Whiteflash folks are great!

Could be the angle of the lighting, camera, etc but that 4.16 looks just a smidge more colorless than the H to my eyes.

I already liked the stone for the fire, but this is a very strong I/weak H making it a really good value as well.

 

[HappyNewLife]

Okay we've got pictures!!! I confirmed that the side view is labeled correct and the hand pic goes left to right ( so the 4.16 is the diamond closet to finger nail). I am VERY impressed with the 4.16 I. The SA said that all three are beautiful and she was immediately drawn to the 4.16 I as her preferred. I did not disclose to her my budget or preferences.

Thoughts??

yesssssssssssssss. Put that sucker on hold! Man, if I had $35K for an upgrade.... lol

 

[miimac7]

The 4.16ct is on hold!!! Now I need to decide 4 or 6 prong? I really like the look of both.

I have had my ring set in both and felt the 6 prong made the stone rounder, and the 4 prong made the stone look bigger. The band size on my 6 prong setting was thin - it's the classic 6 prong setting. Maybe 1.5-1.9 mm?? I can try and find a pic if that helps. The band on the 4 prong setting was a little wider and that also changed the look - so I'm not sure if the it was the number of prongs or band width that made me feel like my ring was bigger after the reset.

My wedding band literally notched the 6'oclock prong of the 6 prong setting over time. BGD reset the diamond in a four prong about 7-8 years ago and there is a grove from my band in that setting. At the time of the reset he did not think the wedding band setting needed to be changes. My ring spins cause I have those fingers that taper to little chubs and like no knuckle.

Here are pics of the 4 and 6 prong WF settings and also pics of my current 4 prong how it sets with wedding band, and "the notch." I love the look but my wedding band is like a blade to platinum.

 

[blueMA]

How about pointy talon 6 prongs.
Like this
https://www.victorcanera.com/rings/engagement/the-gabriella-raised-band-pre-mount
https://www.victorcanera.com/rings/engagement/vintage-six-prong-paved-crown-solitaire

 

[miimac7]

How about pointy talon 6 prongs.
Like this
https://www.victorcanera.com/rings/engagement/the-gabriella-raised-band-pre-mount
https://www.victorcanera.com/rings/engagement/vintage-six-prong-paved-crown-solitaire

yes I really like the gabriella... do you think that 6'o clock prong will hit the band or is it raised up a bit?

 

[AV_]

Let me forward this one, about colour in a 4 carat stone: www

It is worth seeing an example beforehand (admitedly, I cannot know what you know).

 

[blueMA]

yes I really like the gabriella... do you think that 6'o clock prong will hit the band or is it raised up a bit?

I'd call VC and ask. If not, I'm sure he could a custom work without an issue.

 

[sledge]

yes I really like the gabriella... do you think that 6'o clock prong will hit the band or is it raised up a bit?

I really like VC settings. The simplest designs look so quality.

If you didn't notice, this ring has a small donut (blue). The prongs (red) extend up from that donut at some angle/rise.

I anticipate that angle changes based on the diamond size. My chicken scratch below shows the prongs from the side at a fairly steep angle. I think a 4 carat stone will be more shallow & squatty.

The distance you need to know is between the orange lines, which is effectively the bottom of the donut and the point where your wedding band stops (or hits) the prongs. If it's more squatty than I showed I think you can envision how it may hit your wedding band (purple) instead of clearing it like I am showing.

To answer this, VC will need to know the thickness of your ring and also the exact measurements of the stone. He's rather good and can likely modify to make it work but I'd reach out to him if you are really interested.

Hope this helps.

 

[miimac7]

That totally makes sense. Would you not recommend WF to make a setting? I could send my band in so that they can make the setting accordingly....

 

[blueMA]

That totally makes sense. Would you not recommend WF to make a setting? I could send my band in so that they can make the setting accordingly....

You certainly can!

 

[sledge]

That totally makes sense. Would you not recommend WF to make a setting? I could send my band in so that they can make the setting accordingly....

Actually most people prefer to do the setting and stone at one location as it's less hassle. Plus WF has access to many designers, along with a custom bench if you want to go that way.

I wouldn't have any issues using WF. They do quality work and if you do a search you will see this.

All that said, VC has a strong reputation for his hand forged settings. Also I like several of his designs.

 

[rockysalamander]

6-prongs! I like that they make things look round and that you have 5 prongs left if you snag a prong. Platinum is my preference too.

With your w-band, if the culets of the diamonds are beyond the prongs (look from the top), they will eat almost any and every setting regardless of design. What you don't want is them eating the prongs. Why not slip in a thin band that is only the height off your finger of the metal part of the wedding band as a spacer between the rings? That will push the band a tiny bit away from the ering and yet be mostly invisible because your diamond will be covering most of the top of your finger (where the example I have below has much lower coverage). As you move your hand, the rings are shifting up and down and side to side. So, even with a doughnut pushing the band away, the band will "crawl up" and over the doughnut and hit the prongs.

Example from @KatSullivan.

Alternatlvy, you could have your wedding band reset into something like @LLJsmom's lovely ring, where the metal on the sides of the ring extend a bit beyond the diamonds to avoid the diamonds eating a ering.
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...y-solitaire-prongs.241176/page-2#post-4348589

@cflutist had "rails" added to her ring making is bead set to protect her ering.

 

[miimac7]

I’m super happy to report that we (husband and I) purchased the 4.16 ct diamond discussed!!! I decided to set in the Whiteflash broadway setting. It’s simple and classic and is almost exactly like my current setting. I of course will posts some pics with these beauty arrives. Thank you all for your help. This really is a great community!!!


I’m going to be finding a match to my 2ct diamond. Whiteflash only deals with certified diamonds so they can’t set my diamond or really find a match. Should I send my 2ct to GIA to certify? I will NEVER sell this stone it’s too sentimental. Or, should I find a jeweler that will deal with uncertified diamonds?

 

[sledge]

I’m super happy to report that we (husband and I) purchased the 4.16 ct diamond discussed!!! I decided to set in the Whiteflash broadway setting. It’s simple and classic and is almost exactly like my current setting. I of course will posts some pics with these beauty arrives. Thank you all for your help. This really is a great community!!!


I’m going to be finding a match to my 2ct diamond. Whiteflash only deals with certified diamonds so they can’t set my diamond or really find a match. Should I send my 2ct to GIA to certify? I will NEVER sell this stone it’s too sentimental. Or, should I find a jeweler that will deal with uncertified diamonds?

Congrats -- I am happy to hear this worked so well for you. Please do post some pics when you get a few minutes. We all like to see the bling ****, lol.

In regards to your 2 carat stone, is it currently loose? Only asking because to have it graded, it cannot be in a setting. I think for the value of the stone, and the small expense of a GIA report it's a worthwhile option. Keep in mind, you could also elect to do AGS certification. Either way, it provides you some hard data to know how to match your existing stone.

 

[blueMA]

I’m super happy to report that we (husband and I) purchased the 4.16 ct diamond discussed!!! I decided to set in the Whiteflash broadway setting. It’s simple and classic and is almost exactly like my current setting. I of course will posts some pics with these beauty arrives. Thank you all for your help. This really is a great community!!!


I’m going to be finding a match to my 2ct diamond. Whiteflash only deals with certified diamonds so they can’t set my diamond or really find a match. Should I send my 2ct to GIA to certify? I will NEVER sell this stone it’s too sentimental. Or, should I find a jeweler that will deal with uncertified diamonds?

Getting it GIA certified is certainly an option, but I'd just get a caliper from Amazon, Measure, the width and depth and try to find a similar match online or ask a jeweler to find you one.

 

[SimoneDi]

@sledge OP cannot send her stone to AGS as a consumer. AGS only certifies stones sent to them by vendors. GIA works with the public and is more reasonably priced as well. I would absolutely advice @miimac7 that if she wants to have her stone certified, she sends her stone to GIA and not AGS, unless her stone is a precision cut H&A. It will be much easier to find a GIA match as well.

OP, congrats on your new diamond! Please do post pic soon once you receive it!

Regarding finding a match for your current stone, I would contact IDJ in NYC, they also have a nice selection of non-certified stones and can find you a match without even the need to send your current one to GIA.