Urg.. can I girl get some advice? (LONG but hopefully not pathetic)

[BrilliantNikki]

Okay… so I haven’t posted in a while about how things have been going on the “waiting” forefront with me and the BF lately. So I’m going to try and briefly update and then ask for advice. Here goes:

Quick background:
Me: 26
Him: 27
Together for 6 years in December; long distance for the first 2.5 years, cohabitating for the next 3.5 … We bought a house together (though in his name for credit reasons) and have been living here for the last 3 years.

We have talked about marriage in the past… we talked about it A LOT when we first started dating but things sort of slowed down once we became more and more serious. I feel like our relationship moved really quickly in the beginning, hitting lots of milestones in the first few months … so I honestly expected that we would have been engaged by the time I moved in with him. Not so… obviously.

I have tried to broach the subject of marriage with him multiple times over the past year or so. I pretty much always get the same dead end response and hear him saying that he is not ready, not wanting to go into detail about how he feels, or what his plans are. He loves fast forwarding to the part where we have kids and grow old together but will NOT talk to me about the next step of getting engaged and married. So frustrating!!

So, I posted a month or two ago that I had my hopes up regarding a possible engagement while on our upcoming vacation. It was silly of me to think it would happen then, but as a true lady in waiting I was trying to keep a positive outlook on things. We didn’t get engaged… obviously. On the bus ride back to the car at the end of the trip I finally broke down and tried to talk to him about getting married. We had what I felt was a productive discussion; however I was left yet again without much of a reason for WHY he is feeling unready for this step … Just that he wasn’t there yet and his request that I try to be patient with him.

You know that I’ve been sitting here obsessing over why he isn’t ready and what it means… so I have turned to Google for my answers. Pretty much EVERYTHING I read says if he tells me his not ready… then he doesn’t want to marry ME. Maybe I sound like pathetic, blinded by naivety whining girlfriend but I just cannot believe that after 6 years and a house and talks about starting a family with me that he is just stringing me along until something better comes along.

I realize that this is getting a bit novel-y… but I am just so bummed right now because I don’t understand where I am … or where my relationship is going. Can someone give me some advice? I’d love to hear what someone who had a long pre-engagement who is currently engaged or married has to say…

 

[radiantquest]

ok brilliant, be strong. i dont think it is you. dont listen to google. they dont know you or your situation or him and his reasons.
i am married, but still waiting for the ering so i stay here in LIW. i love it here.
he isnt ready i am guessing for man reasons. sometimes its financial, sometimes they are afraid, sometimes they want to but the timing is off. he is giving you strong signals that he plans to spend a long time with you. he wouldnt buy a house with you (even if your name isnt on it) if he didnt plan to be with you. my husband refused marriage several times, told me that he didnt want to and never would. then he said that he would do it because it is important to me, then finally he was ready and ready quick. he told me he wanted to get married on tuesday, wednesday we got the license and friday we were married. i knew that was what i wanted so i did it. granted its only been a couple weeks, but so far so good. my point here is that when he is ready he will be ready. the best advice i can give is to make sure that he understands why it is so important to you. and try not to pester him. i know that it is important for you to have the commitment, but bugging will do nothing for you. try and let him know that you are heading in that direction, but make it easy for him to propose. no man wants to propse to a nag or feeling forced into doing it. be nice and patient. and think about all the things he loves about you and use them to your advantage. aahh i just got novel-y sorry. good luck sweetie

 

[brooklyngirl]

BN, so sorry you're having a hard time. No, you are absolutely NOT pathetic, just a woman stuck between a rock and a hard place.

My pre-engagement wasn't as long as yours, but it lasted about 2 years from the time I realized I was ready for marriage. My FI and I were living together for for 2 years (renting -- I refused to buy until we were at least engaged) , and he was trying to convince me to move to California with him (true to my handle, we did live in Brooklyn, NY at the time). During that time I almost left him. I had a detailed plan, and truth be told, he proposed on the day of my internal deadline, and if he hadn't, I planned to have my things packed be out of there within a week.

Throughout the pre-engagement he would also say that he wasn't ready, and didn't know why. I also thought that he just didn't want to marry ME. Eventually he did start digging deeper into why he wasn't yet ready, and it was always some lame excuse (i.e. if we're married, that means I'm old, or, everyone is talking about it, and pushing, and I want to feel like it is *my* decision). After hearing the last bit, I stopped talking about it for 6 months.

It was an awful time in my life, and I felt sad *all the time*. The only time I started feeling better was when I finally gave myself an internal deadline that I knew I would stick to. I came to a point where I knew I would be ok without him, and that I could not control his actions, only my own. I resolved that I wasn't going to wait forever, and a decision about our relationship was going to be made by X date, and if he didn't make it, I would make it for him.

What's concerning me about your situation is that he won't tell you why you're waiting and what you're waiting for. It seems to me that he's not considering your feelings, or your best interest in this relationship. If he were, he'd be honest with you about what he's feeling. You have to make a decision as to whether this relationship is worth it for you, and in order for you to do that, he has to be honest.

The only regret I have about my relationship is that I wasn't ready to leave earlier. I told him that this wasn't working for me, and that I would wait for him, but did not know how long I could do that. When he saw that things were getting worse, and I was spending much less time with him, and not doing the things that he was used to me doing (cooking, cleaning, being affectionate) he realized that on any given day I could leave for work and never come back.

We are fine now, but everytime I read a post like yours, or hear of a couple who is living together where a man is not ready for marriage, all those feelings I had before the proposal (mainly anger towards FI) come back, and I become PO'd for a few minutes. It happens less and less as time passes, but it's there.

Ok, at the end of this long winded post, I recommend that you figure out your finances, and make an exit plan. Think about how much longer (if at all) you will be willing to wait, and make peace with that decision. Be honest with him about the fact that you're having second thoughts and wonder how much longer you can be in this relationship (don't give an exact date).

He has to know you won't he his girlfriend forever, at some point you will either be his wife, or his not-so-distant memory.

 

[Lauren8211]

Just wanted to say I''m sorry you''re feeling bummed. LIWness is tougher than some people can imagine! Especially when it''s supposed to be the happiest time in your life.

Here''s what I think: What he does not owe you is to marry you when you decide it''s right. What he DOES owe you is an explanation as to why he''s not ready, an answer as to if he will EVER be ready, and a loose timeline. 6 years is a long time! You are allowed to ability to plan your life, and to make sure he fits into it.

I''d never tell an LIW to leave their SO, since relationships are so personal, and I don''t know what your relationship is like. What I will tell you is that you can''t be afraid to leave to get what you want. I know you love your SO, but if marriage is important to you, and he''s not coming around, and there''s no sign of it after 6 years, well, you have to decide what is best for YOU.

At the very least he owes you a serious talk with a real answer. That''s the VERY least.

Good Luck!

 

[LaraOnline]

Unfortunately you are in a very difficult position.
Because men don't really care too much about long term family planning, (hey, let me have a generalisation here) they kinda think they're the energizer bunny and can keep going and going.
It disturbs me that they think they can do this type of stuff, frankly.
I hope my boy will be more considerate, and aware of the bigger picture, when he gets involved with a girl.

In my experience, guys can be 'all about me' until they're in their 30s. He could have an epiphany and settle. It's quite possible he feels he's 'been there done that' with you, and he's wondering what else is out there, adventure wise. Or he could just be lazy. Perhaps he's got a few boxes to tick before he settles. It's a shame he can't go to counselling, to sort this stuff out for himself. But in many ways he's denying the reality of his situation, in any case, so it is unlikely he would see that he should seek counselling.

If he's 'feeling pushed' that to me sounds really childish. But then, men are very often very childish. Getting married is a big responsibility, so if he's not a responsible person, it IS likely he's feeling pushed. Getting married is an unselfish act... there are lots of selfish people in the world. Lots of people are scared of growing up. Has he got any gray hair yet? That can help a guy 'get real'.

He's not seeing how his behaviours and choices have already impacted on you. What can I say? This is in many ways a cultural thing. Men are constantly told they can 'have it all' these days with women... it's not so strange that they would start to believe it. Families don't really counsel or supervise the relating of their younger people, so it's kinda a wildflower garden...

Looks like you've made your bed... such as it is. He's not dancing nicely with you, but it looks like you have to suck it up. Be perfect. He'll probably marry you in the end.

Sorry. I hope I'm helping you feel heard, not making you feel worse.

ETA: I've calmed down a bit now, and sort of wish I'd tamed my response, but I think these kinds of discussions should be made in public space. I know there's heaps of silly women making life hard for men in all sorts of ways, but we seem to have taken old-fashioned ideas of feminine patience and silence, and extrapolated them into absolute marathon courting sessions! Less was expected of women in the past, perhaps.

Perhaps he's worried about long term compatability issues. Perhaps he thinks that your long-term goals are different. Lots of relationships flounder at around this life stage. Five years from now, you could think he's a fool. Or, you will have resolved the hold-up, and he'll be wondering why he made you wait. The happy ending happened to quite a few people I know. So, chin up!

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 10/8/2008 10:48:18 PM
Author: brooklyngirl
He has to know you won''t he his girlfriend forever, at some point you will either be his wife, or his not-so-distant memory.

Can I just say that I think this line is awesome?!

 

[swingirl]

You got so serious so young. I would say to anyone living in their boyfriend''s house for 3 years with no talk of marriage, it''s time for a change. You really should be living by yourself where you are not so convenient.

Right now you are providing him with all the benefits of a committed relationship without his commitment to you. I don''t know what your legal relationship is regarding the house but if you split up what will happen to your share of the investment? You are kind of stuck because I would recommend you moving out on your own but then what do you do with the house? It seems like he wins both ways--he''s got the house and is holding the cards about any future plans and not sharing with you his time line. He knows you will keep waiting. You, on the other hand, have no house, no time line and no future commitment.

 

[LaraOnline]

Maybe it's just a contextual thing... he's thinking you're like 'already married', and doesn't want the cost of a wedding?

Cut through, tell him you can't be bothered with all that stuff and you want to elope, or have a really super cheap little wedding in front of family.
As for rings, settle for a small ring, and upgrade later...?

Perhaps it's simply the cost of the actual nuptials that is putting him off?

Lots of men are scared of the circus, I guess...

 

[brooklyngirl]

Freke - Thanks

Lara - I don''t mean anything against you, nor am I trying to be harsh, but I don''t know if telling the OP that she should give her BF more of what he wants at her own expense is such a good idea. It sounds like this relationship is wreaking havoc on her self esteem.

He has to want to marry her for the sake of marrying her, and being a *legal* family. If (g- forbid) he gets hit by a bus tomorrow, she''s out on her a$$ because if he doesn''t have a will, the house that''s in *his* name will go to his next of kin, which is not the OP.

Rings, and weddings have nothing to do with marriage IMHO. If those are the things that are bothering him, he could he could perhaps care to ask if she even wants those things. These things are decided by the couple as a unit, and need not delay a marriage, if the couple in question doesn''t care for those things.

If she wants a big wedding, and a big honking e-ring, and they can afford it, she should have one -- she deserves it after living as his wife for 3 years, and not getting the same commitment in return.

Just to be clear, I''m not saying that a big honking e-ring and wedding mean a man loves a woman, I''m just saying that he needs to take responsibility for the affects of his actions on his SO. He has to contribute here, and *show* her how important, and good enough she is for him. When you love someone you do things that make them happy, not treat them like a child, keep important things from them, and continuously hurt them (which he is doing everytime he tells her he''s not ready, and changes the subject).

OP if you aren''t doing so already, start putting yourself first. Concentrate on your friends, your career, and whatever hobbies make you happy. Don''t treat him like a husband, and put him first in your life. Whether you live together, own a house, or not, a boyfriend is just that -- here today, gone tomorrow. Treat him as such.

Ok, getting off my soap box... this topic realy ruffles my feathers!

Disclaimer I do not mean to belittle the relationships of those are not yet engaged/married, but LIWs here know why they''re waiting for the proposal, and what it means.

 

[decodelighted]

It makes me VERY nervous when men "won''t discuss" why they don''t want to take the next step in a relationship. What I automatically read into it is "if she knew the TRUTH there is no way she would stay".

Why wouldn''t he want to tell you? If it was something you *would* understand. If it *could* be worked through together.

You share a house, you share time together, you share yourself with him but ... you DON''T share his innermost thoughts & hopes & dreams.

Ask yourself why.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 10/8/2008 11:09:49 PM
Author: LaraOnline
it looks like you have to suck it up. Be perfect. He''ll probably marry you in the end.

Sure, ''cause only PERFECT people deserve commitment. ???? Honestly, this is the single most heartbreaking, demoralizing, passive, anti-feminist comment I''ve ever seen in the LIW threads. And that is saying A LOT.

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 10/9/2008 12:04:10 AM
Author: brooklyngirl

Lara - I don''t mean anything against you, nor am I trying to be harsh, but I don''t know if telling the OP that she should give her BF more of what he wants at her own expense is such a good idea. It sounds like this relationship is wreaking havoc on her self esteem.

He has to want to marry her for the sake of marrying her, and being a *legal* family. If (g- forbid) he gets hit by a bus tomorrow, she''s out on her a$$ because if he doesn''t have a will, the house that''s in *his* name will go to his next of kin, which is not the OP.

Rings, and weddings have nothing to do with marriage IMHO. If those are the things that are bothering him, he could he could perhaps care to ask if she even wants those things. These things are decided by the couple as a unit, and need not delay a marriage, if the couple in question doesn''t care for those things.

If she wants a big wedding, and a big honking e-ring, and they can afford it, she should have one -- she deserves it after living as his wife for 3 years, and not getting the same commitment in return.

Just to be clear, I''m not saying that a big honking e-ring and wedding mean a man loves a woman, I''m just saying that he needs to take responsibility for the affects of his actions on his SO. He has to contribute here, and *show* her how important, and good enough she is for him. When you love someone you do things that make them happy, not treat them like a child, keep important things from them, and continuously hurt them (which he is doing everytime he tells her he''s not ready, and changes the subject).

Disclaimer I do not mean to belittle the relationships of those are not yet engaged/married, but LIWs here know why they''re waiting for the proposal, and what it means.

Brooklyn Girl, I wholeheartedly agree with you!! Personally, I have dumped two guys that didn''t know what they were doing... it was hard to do that, and I wish I hadn''t been put in the situation in the first place.
However, they guy I married is really great, and really feels like it was meant to be.
I just really wish it wasn''t so hard for us girls in this day and age!! Being married seems like an incredibly reasonable desire to me, it is selfish times we live in...

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 10/9/2008 12:19:04 AM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 10/8/2008 11:09:49 PM

Author: LaraOnline

it looks like you have to suck it up. Be perfect. He'll probably marry you in the end.

Sure, 'cause only PERFECT people deserve commitment. ???? Honestly, this is the single most heartbreaking, demoralizing, passive, anti-feminist comment I've ever seen in the LIW threads. And that is saying A LOT.

Sorry Deco... it's hard to get context... I was being sarcastic .. and kinda making a comment about what a no-win, demoralising situation being a LIW can be (depending on your personal situation).
I'm surprised our culture thinks so little of it... can you guess? It makes me hopping mad.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 10/9/2008 1:56:23 AM
Author: LaraOnline

Date: 10/9/2008 12:19:04 AM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 10/8/2008 11:09:49 PM
Author: LaraOnline
it looks like you have to suck it up. Be perfect. He''ll probably marry you in the end.

Sure, ''cause only PERFECT people deserve commitment. ???? Honestly, this is the single most heartbreaking, demoralizing, passive, anti-feminist comment I''ve ever seen in the LIW threads. And that is saying A LOT.

Sorry Deco... it''s hard to get context... I was being sarcastic ..

I see. I guess in the back of my mind I was *hoping* you were being sarcastic. Sadly I think that some women ... maybe MANY women really do believe this. "If I''m perfect enough he''ll HAVE to want to marry me!" It seemed like you were actually verbalizing that secret awful truth.

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 10/9/2008 2:08:18 AM
Author: decodelighted
It seemed like you were actually verbalizing that secret awful truth.

I guess that was kind of the idea... but in a sort of light-hearted way.
I don''t want Nikki to think I''m critical of her previous choices, because I''m not...
However, I AM critical of a culture that doesn''t think enough of traditional women''s concerns, like family planning, and getting married, so that she has to face all this on her own.
I feel upset for her, and her feelings remind me of the isolation and confusion that I felt, right throughout my 20s.
I often thought that boyfriends were interacting with me like I was some kind of sterile lad!!

Often, friends would ask me: ''why do even want to get married, anyway?''
Bizarre! Isn''t it obvious!!!???

 

[purrfectpear]

It''s pretty simple and you don''t have to Google to figure it out...from his perspective, why should he marry you?


What would marriage provide him that he doesn''t already have?

If he doesn''t marry you he has all the positives of married living and none of the negatives (in HIS mind, not saying I believe that).

Either suck it up and continue to let things be on his timeline, or make your own and tell him. Good luck making your decision, I know it''s difficult

 

[Haven]

Date: 10/8/2008 11:27:21 PM
Author: FrekeChild

Date: 10/8/2008 10:48:18 PM

Author: brooklyngirl

He has to know you won''t he his girlfriend forever, at some point you will either be his wife, or his not-so-distant memory.

Can I just say that I think this line is awesome?!

DITTO. Great line, brooklyn.

I also agree with purrfectpear--it sounds like he simply has no reason to marry you. You already live with him, and there is no sign that you are going anywhere (despite the fact that you two are not in the same place regarding what you want). If you do tell him that you either want to move on with your relationship by becoming engaged or you will move out, and he STILL doesn''t make a move, that tells you what his priorities really are.

Good luck, I can only imagine how difficult this must be.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I''m going to be up front and say that I don''t think he''s being honest with you about his fears because he''s afraid it will hurt your feelings.

You guys started dating young (I can relate), and he may have some genuine fears about getting married without dating other women, having his own life experiences, etc. I really don''t think it''s you, I just think that right now his fear of getting married is greater than his fear of losing you.

I won''t type up my whole story, but I was in your boat about 2 years ago--we didn''t buy a house together (he wanted to, I didn''t), but we''d dated since my first year of college, lived together for many years, etc. I did leave my relationship after having many discussions about marriage because I knew that I could not help him get over his fears, he had to do that on his own. When I left it hit him very, very hard--I was adamant about no contact (I needed to heal) and he was smart and used that time to a.) see a therapist to get over his fears and b.) see how he felt about our relationship over the span of a few months, so proposing wouldn''t be a knee-jerk reaction to losing me.

I would take a step back and ask yourself how long you''re willing to stay, what you plan to change about your own approach (I would often tell myself that doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results was insanity), and why you''re staying in this relationship (is it for fear that you might not find something better? If so, you know it''s time to go). I never suggest leaving to women who aren''t ready--leaving is hard and it''s too easy to fold if you''re not committed, but I also think it''s the best option for women who are no longer happy in their relationship--again, this is something that he has to figure out for himself.

Good luck to you! I know how much it sucks--you feel helpless, lost and it''s hard on the self-esteem. Trust me, though, it will get better. One way or the other, it WILL get better.

 

[sklingem]

Date: 10/9/2008 9:18:12 AM
Author: Haven

Date: 10/8/2008 11:27:21 PM

Author: FrekeChild

Date: 10/8/2008 10:48:18 PM


Author: brooklyngirl


He has to know you won''t he his girlfriend forever, at some point you will either be his wife, or his not-so-distant memory.

Can I just say that I think this line is awesome?!

DITTO. Great line, brooklyn.


I also agree with purrfectpear--it sounds like he simply has no reason to marry you. You already live with him, and there is no sign that you are going anywhere (despite the fact that you two are not in the same place regarding what you want). If you do tell him that you either want to move on with your relationship by becoming engaged or you will move out, and he STILL doesn''t make a move, that tells you what his priorities really are.


Good luck, I can only imagine how difficult this must be.

I have to agree with that as well. If you do decide to go this route you just have to be careful that he does not propose due to pressure/threat, which subsequently he could blame you for ("well, YOU wanted to get engaged/married when I was not sure" etc.). It would almost be better to move out and "take a time-out" during which you would not accept a proposal.

 

[SparklyLibra]

Date: 10/9/2008 12:15:28 AM
Author: decodelighted
It makes me VERY nervous when men ''won''t discuss'' why they don''t want to take the next step in a relationship. What I automatically read into it is ''if she knew the TRUTH there is no way she would stay''.


Why wouldn''t he want to tell you? If it was something you *would* understand. If it *could* be worked through together.


You share a house, you share time together, you share yourself with him but ... you DON''T share his innermost thoughts & hopes & dreams.


Ask yourself why.

I couldn''t have said it better. I was in your position a few months ago and remembered thinking to myself, "okay, if he''s not willing to say WHY he''s not ready yet or exactly WHAT the hold up is, then he doesn''t want me to know, and that right there tells me all I need to know." I think that sometimes women know the answer to the questions we ask, deep down, but don''t want to accept it because we don''t feel we can handle the rejection. What I think most women in this situation need to realize is that the "rejection" usually has little to do with you and much to do with him. Think about it. Would he really want the perks of having you around if he couldn''t stand you? No, but he can''t stand the thought of losing you either which is why he''s holding you hostage. Quite frankly I find it selfish, and think any woman in this situation deserves better.

The day you realize that will be the day you reconcile with the fact that there is better out there for you, and you''re not as much "walking away from" as much as you are "walking towards" a better and more fulfilling future for yourself. If he can be selfish and look out for his own interests, then I suggest you do the same. Now I know it''s easier said than done to walk away from all the history of 6 years, but you really have to be real and honest with yourself and look out for numero uno at this point, before you become resentful and give up on yourself and just settle. They way I see it, if you take a leap of faith and he comes running after you then that''s one thing, sometimes they just need a wake up call... But if not, then all you have is the answer you were waiting 6 years for.

JMHO.

~SL

 

[ash313]

Hey BrilliantNikki,

*sigh* I have been in a similar situation. My SO whom I had lived with at the time for nearly two years suddenly halted the marriage talk, after we had discussed timeline, gone ring shopping, etc. When I asked about it, I got very confused and upsetting responses: "I can''t articulate why, but I''m suddenly very overwhelmed and can''t commit to this right now" or "I''m not sure when I''ll be ready." He was in his first year of law school.

We went through some tough, tough, times. I had to decide if I wanted him in my life even if I wasn''t sure when marriage was coming. Ultimately, we toughed it out. It involved some very honest discussions that weren''t always pleasant to hear but were done in a loving way. Now we plan to be engaged very soon, with a wedding next year, and he is completely on board. But it was NOT easy for either of us.

He does not "owe" you marriage, although I KNOW it feels that way. He needs to be true to himself. And you need to be true to yourself. So, the complicated and difficult question to ask yourself here is: Can I be true to myself and my highest good in this relationship at this time? The answer is probably not yes or no, which is what makes it so complicated. It''s probably "most of the time" or "not much" or "sometimes." Survey the answer to that question over several days or weeks, and see what you come up with. Self-reflection is key, here.

He DOES, as I believe Elledizzy said, owe you his truth. He MUST learn to speak it out loud to you, even if he can''t do it all in one day. You deserve to know his thoughts, that is what makes a relationship.

I think sometimes we want simple solutions to complex problems, and there aren''t any. This is complex, complicated, it''s human lives. They aren''t easy, but the way we experience shapes our being. My only advice is to keep checking in with yourself as you ask him his intentions, thoughts, desires, etc. When you aren''t able to serve yourself, that''s when you lose.

I know this doesn''t feel good. Best of luck, sweetie, I am sending my best intentions your way.

 

[LaraOnline]

Lovely post, leeNY
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I also wanted to apologise if I upset you with my post, I was pretty pumped up this morning, and reading your story upset me. I'm sorry for not editing. I just let it go as is, as I had a workmate who needed speaking with me.
If it's any consolation, your situation is really, really common...can I say 'especially at your age', when some peole are starting to grow up, and some are holding back for dear life...?
Try not to let it make you bitter like me

everything worked out for the best for me, generally when it doesn't fall into place, there's some pretty important reasons why! So, try to be philosophical, enjoy the small things in life (reread leeNY's lovely post) and remember we are all supporting you!

 

[BrilliantNikki]

Wow… thanks so much to all of you ladies who responded.

Radiant: Your post lifted my spirits. I am in agreement with most things you say. I have been trying desperately not to bring up the subject at all because for a while there he did admit that he was feeling like was pushing him to much (Side note: I think he is also getting a lot of pressure from his mother) and he was feeling overwhelmed.

BrooklynGirl: (response to your first post) I also really appreciated everything you are telling me with your post, getting this advice makes me feel a bit more… empowered (?). Truth is that I have to confess that I am not sure I am ready to have an “exit plan” … I simply cannot imagine my life without him – prepare for hokeyness – he is my soul mate, we are perfect for each other… If I left, wouldn’t I potentially be that much further from my goal? I’d have to find a new guy and start all over again. The thought of that is overwhelming to me … On the same note, I do understand why making the timeline for myself is important and I am going to continue to consider that as a viable option.

Elle: You said, “What he does not owe you is to marry you when you decide its right. What he DOES owe you is an explanation as to why he's not ready, an answer as to if he will EVER be ready, and a loose timeline.” I completely agree with this. And I feel that this is a good thing to actually SAY directly to him.

Lara: I get what you’re saying… to some extent 

BrooklynGirl: (in response to your second post) Something that I think about frequently is where I’d be if something happened to him (“g-forbid”) particularly recently as one of our friends was just in a serious accident. I think that this is something I need to bring to the table when we have our next talk about the relationship. Also, you got me thinking more concretely about what it is I want… see more below for that.

----

Last night I spent a long time thinking about WHY I want to get married and why it is so important to me… keeping in mind that, as purrfectpear pointed out, we are practically already married with all the benefits. This is what I came up with:

- Legal benefits… too many to list… see link
- I want to start a family and prefer to do that only after I am married.
- I want him to give me a solid commitment. (As others said… a BF is just that here today gone tomorrow with no penalty)…
- I want to give him my commitment… I can leave just as easily as he can – I want to assure him that I won’t.
- I want a wedding… doesn’t have to big or pricey… but I want it. I want o make sure to point out while this is NOT the most important component of getting married to me, it is something that I want… I’m just keepin’ it real.
- I want my dad to walk me down the aisle (sooner rather than later as he has health concerns)
- I don’t want to wait anymore… the feeling of waiting around is wearing on me and making me feel unsure about myself.

So I am left wondering if I should talk to him again about how I feel and try to get him to open up to me about why he isn’t ready or if I should wait it out a little longer as to not be a nag and push him more and more… I am feeling that I should talk to him – I’ve already been waiting. Any more advice?

 

[Italiahaircolor]

First of all, big hugs. This is tough.

Now, without being mean...and speaking generally...when two people aren't on the same page...realtionship-wise...it's the hardest thing in the world. You can't turn off your desire to be married, and he can't turn on his desire to be married---you're both stuck.

It sounds like, in 6 years, you've both made huge commitments to each other. But some relationships aren't meant to last forever, or go the distance. Sometimes 6 wonderful years are just 6 wonderful years...and it's okay to realize that now you're on different paths, and make the break. Of course, I'm not saying this is the right step for you...I'm simply stating that if you're not in same relationship, not on the same page, and not moving towards the same goal...then leaving is an honest option for you to consider.

When he says to you "I need more time"...what does that mean in terms to him? Weeks, months, years? Are you able to give this relationship more time? Weither you stay or go, you're not getting engaged right now any way. So you can either choose to invest more time in this man, or invest more time in a new loving relationship. But you need, regardless, to feel like you're getting what your share out of wherever you are.

You can give him every completely practical reason in the world to marry you. You can write him list after list of perfectly expressed feelings that are totally logical. But love and marriage have absolutely nothing to do with lists. You cannot make someone marry you even if you present all the benefical reasons in pretty numerical form. And as a wife, in all honesty, you don't want to force a man into marriage either its to big, it's to complicated and its to deep, not to mention too important. I believe I've posted this before--but heres the thing...marriage isn't always roses, occasionally, you get thorns. What makes a marriage work, and I mean really work, is when both people are totally invested and they are certain 110% this the place they want to be. Because when those thorns get extra prickly (and they do) that security you have knowing he is totally there is what often times pulls you thru.

Basically, all you can do is strive to make the right decisions for yourself. I honestly believe when LIW post "do I stay or do I go" questions on PS, they secretly deep down inside know the answer.

 

[BrilliantNikki]

here''s that link

LeeNY – I want to hug you. Your post is very eloquent and matter of fact and it may become my mantra. I will do some self-reflection and see where I stand. Thank you for your response.

Lara – Thanks for the follow-up post.

 

[~*Alexis*~]

Date: 10/9/2008 12:19:04 AM
Author: decodelighted

Date: 10/8/2008 11:09:49 PM
Author: LaraOnline
it looks like you have to suck it up. Be perfect. He''ll probably marry you in the end.

Sure, ''cause only PERFECT people deserve commitment. ???? Honestly, this is the single most heartbreaking, demoralizing, passive, anti-feminist comment I''ve ever seen in the LIW threads. And that is saying A LOT.

I spent so much time in the past trying to be perfect for my ex and it was a complete waste of time. Perfection is in the eye of the beholder. There is different expectations for eahc person. No one is perfect and no one can be perfect. In the end its all up to you and what you want and how long you can stay.

 

[BrilliantNikki]

Okay let me do one more follow up to the responses. I want to stress that I did not intend for this to be a "do I stay or do I go" post.

Let me clarify:

I think what I am really looking for here is assistance in figuring out how to get him to open up. I want him to be able to share with me why he isn''t feeling ready. HONESTLY, it will be hard to hear, but if his reason is: "I don''t want to marry YOU" then I will at least know what is going on.

How do I ask? What do i say... I don''t want to push him to marry me... I want to know why he isn''t ready so that I can know why I''m waiting. I want to help him get there if I can... I just want to move though this time as a couple instead of feeling like we are in this alone.

 

[dragonfly411]

One way I get SO to open up is to PUT situations in his mind. For instance, If we get in an argument over something petty (like the remote)I say to him "if I were to leave here now, and get in a car accident and have to go to the hospital, would you regret being mad over this?" that usually gets him to think and talk. If he''s holding something in I try to give examples of what it could be, and he''ll agree or disagree. Sometimes its like he can''t find the words or can''t place it unless he has help...

 

[absolut_blonde]

Date: 10/9/2008 10:34:39 AM
Author: BrilliantNikki
Okay let me do one more follow up to the responses. I want to stress that I did not intend for this to be a 'do I stay or do I go' post.

Let me clarify:

I think what I am really looking for here is assistance in figuring out how to get him to open up. I want him to be able to share with me why he isn't feeling ready. HONESTLY, it will be hard to hear, but if his reason is: 'I don't want to marry YOU' then I will at least know what is going on.

How do I ask? What do i say... I don't want to push him to marry me... I want to know why he isn't ready so that I can know why I'm waiting. I want to help him get there if I can... I just want to move though this time as a couple instead of feeling like we are in this alone.

I think you need to calmly sit him down and ASK why he's not ready.

Something like, "I know we've discussed engagement/marriage before but I'm always left feeling like I have a lot of unanswered questions. I understand that you are not ready and that's ok. However, I would like to know why you feel you aren't ready and when you see those reasons changing. I love you, but marriage is important to me. I can't wait blindly forever."

If you think it might help, you could even write it in a letter - and then either give it to him or use it to articulate what you want to say. I did the letter thing recently with SO and it worked extremely well (not about being LIW but about our future/which city we'll live in/etc). I am the type that gets really emotional when I am upset, so it's difficult for me to calmly and effectively express myself during sensitive discussions sometimes. By letting him read it in a letter, he didn't feel like he was put on the defensive and I didn't get all worked up. He saw my point of view a lot more than in prior discussions we'd had.

 

[ash313]

Date: 10/9/2008 10:26:06 AM
Author: BrilliantNikki
here''s that link


LeeNY – I want to hug you. Your post is very eloquent and matter of fact and it may become my mantra. I will do some self-reflection and see where I stand. Thank you for your response.


Lara – Thanks for the follow-up post.

Awww, (((((BIG HUG)))) I''m glad that was helpful. My heart is hurting for you because I know how this feels. Please know this yucky feeling doesn''t last forever, and I can''t say it enough, just keep checking in with yourself.

As to your "how do I get him to open up" question, I would phrase things in a loving way, but be clear and direct. Only you know him and how we will respond, but something like: "You know how much I love you and our relationship. It''s so important to me, and I know it is to you, that we continue to grow in love together. I''ve been doing some thinking, and have decided that marriage really is important to me. You have said in the past that you''re not ready, and I want to honor where you are and respect how you feel. However, I''m not sure I completely understand how you feel, just that you''re not ready. Would you tell me more about how you feel? When I don''t understand your feelings, it''s hard to feel connected as a couple."

If he is still backing off, he may just need to absorb this request for his feelings. Many people have a hard time starting a sentence with "I feel" and often go to "I think." It''s critical that he is able to articulate how he feels (scared, nervous, anxious, uninterested) as opposed to how he thinks (marriage is unimportant, he doesn''t need to get married now, you are being unreasonable). See the difference?

I would gently push him on this, though. After six years in a committed relationship, disclosure of feelings is something he should be able to do, and you can call him out for not doing it.

Hang in there, and try to operate from a place of love and not fear. Fear leads us to do silly things, but acting out of love (for ourselves alone or ourselves in relationship), is almost always the right choice.