Warning: FLIPPING will close this forum. Please read.

[cm366]

Thanks, Ella, for making this public announcement and clarifying the forum's policies. I know I've used this forum for several purchases and I check it quite frequently - I'd hate to see it go away!

 

[movie zombie]

just ban them from the Pre-Loved forum.
I will say I've made one purchase using it.
never sold anything.
and i'm actually put off by purchasing because of flipping......
thanks to Ella and all for monitoring and taking appropriate action.

 

[arkieb1]

Ladies we appreciate the opinions but the policies are not up for debate. We will handle the situations if they arise again.

Sorry Ella, not trying to debate your policies just mentioning that sometimes there is a grey area in there as well.... like when you post something for a higher price but really its just the price you actually paid when you add on all the extra costs. Technically that should not be considered flipping, but I am guessing the people you have been busting are NOT in that grey area.

 

[JLW05]

I always assumed that if I am purchasing a piece on the secondary market with only a photo and description to go by and usually no return policy, then I should, in most circumstances, be paying less than the seller paid. Otherwise, I could purchase a similar piece new and/or with a generous return policy. Never occured to me that some sellers were asking for more than they acutally paid for a piece. Plus, if the seller is set on a certain price, no need to ask for more than she wants with the idea that a compromise will be made between her and a potential buyer. How about just stating "price firm" in the first place? Sounds to me like some excuses are being made.

 

[Ella]

Ladies we appreciate the opinions but the policies are not up for debate. We will handle the situations if they arise again.

Sorry Ella, not trying to debate your policies just mentioning that sometimes there is a grey area in there as well.... like when you post something for a higher price but really its just the price you actually paid when you add on all the extra costs. Technically that should not be considered flipping, but I am guessing the people you have been busting are NOT in that grey area.

Correct, these folks have not been in a grey area.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Good thing I don't sell stuff so I can't violate rules. I guess if someone really wants to flip .. they can just post on the listing sites. I have no problems with people getting things for a steal on ebay and then selling it here at a slight profit while still being a good deal for the members. In my mind, everyone wins in these cases. I would glady pay 20% or more for ForteKitty's diamond and it's still a freakin steal.

 

[Circe]

Good thing I don't sell stuff so I can't violate rules. I guess if someone really wants to flip .. they can just post on the listing sites. I have no problems with people getting things for a steal on ebay and then selling it here at a slight profit while still being a good deal for the members. In my mind, everyone wins in these cases. I would glady pay 20% or more for ForteKitty's diamond and it's still a freakin steal.

... Or yours, for that matter! I was having a tough time articulating it, but this basically encompasses my feelings exactly. I don't like being taken for a fool when people cover it up. But if they're charging a fair price for something I want but can't find? ... I care less. In a way, I think it's the " no flipping" rule that makes it an issue .... Otherwise, as mentioned above, the market sets the price, and we just don't PAY, right?

 

[junebug17]

Thanks for the additional warning Ella - I really, really hope people heed it. I haven't bought or sold yet on PS, but it's such a nice option for PS members to have. I'd hate to see it taken away.

 

[Matata]

I have no problems with people getting things for a steal on ebay and then selling it here at a slight profit while still being a good deal for the members. In my mind, everyone wins in these cases. I would glady pay 20% or more for ForteKitty's diamond and it's still a freakin steal.

I understand where you're coming from. But, under the policies for Trade members, being a concierge for PS members (hunting for deals on e-bay or other sources) and selling here for any kind of profit would make the seller a vendor. As such, it would be unfair to all the other vendors who are not permitted to conduct sales on PS.

I think Andrey and Ella are trying very hard with Pre-Loved to fulfill members' desires yet not become a sales site. I think it took a HUGE leap of faith for them to even attempt it and I respect their decisions about this particular issue, even if it means members might not be getting a good deal. It's not about us. It's about PS and the intent and purpose of the site as it is delineated by its owners.

If there are folks here who are adept at finding steals and want to make a bit of change by reselling, they should set up their own site and conduct their business any way they choose. They just can't conduct their business on PS.

 

[Enerchi]

Well said, Matata, Well said!

 

[yennyfire]

I have no problems with people getting things for a steal on ebay and then selling it here at a slight profit while still being a good deal for the members. In my mind, everyone wins in these cases. I would glady pay 20% or more for ForteKitty's diamond and it's still a freakin steal.

I understand where you're coming from. But, under the policies for Trade members, being a concierge for PS members (hunting for deals on e-bay or other sources) and selling here for any kind of profit would make the seller a vendor. As such, it would be unfair to all the other vendors who are not permitted to conduct sales on PS.

I think Andrey and Ella are trying very hard with Pre-Loved to fulfill members' desires yet not become a sales site. I think it took a HUGE leap of faith for them to even attempt it and I respect their decisions about this particular issue, even if it means members might not be getting a good deal. It's not about us. It's about PS and the intent and purpose of the site as it is delineated by its owners.

If there are folks here who are adept at finding steals and want to make a bit of change by reselling, they should set up their own site and conduct their business any way they choose. They just can't conduct their business on PS.

Well said Matata and a huge thank you to our beloved PS Admins for taking the leap of faith to create Preloved and for caring enough about our community to take a stand when people are being dishonest.

 

[SB621]

Totally understand Ella! Thank you again. To just clarify as it hasn't been brought up yet- but I HAVE sold and bought a bunch of stuff on pre-loved. So if I'm selling or even buying I would want to know who has been flipping in the past. As a seller I want my buyer to be comfortable. As a buyer I don't want to be mislead. Just to clarify why I'm all for outing whoever.

 

[eh613c]

Totally understand Ella! Thank you again. To just clarify as it hasn't been brought up yet- but I HAVE sold and bought a bunch of stuff on pre-loved. So if I'm selling or even buying I would want to know who has been flipping in the past. As a seller I want my buyer to be comfortable. As a buyer I don't want to be mislead. Just to clarify why I'm all for outing whoever.

Agree! I've bought items through Preloved and continue to check out items daily. As a buyer, I certainly want to know who is flipping so I can avoid them and not encourage them to continue. It would be awful for this community to lose this forum because of certain few.

 

[chrono]

This is news to me that flipping has become more blatant and common. Kudos to the PS owners and admin to have a site where members can freely sell and buy. I've sold once and purchased twice so am very thankful to have this avenue to do so. Matata sums it up perfectly.

 

[movie zombie]

and another in agreement with Matata.

 

[ooo~Shiney!]

I have to say, I have never sold,
but I HAVE bought two of my very most favorite pieces from the preloved,
and I also check it daily.....
I feel like this is a place I can come to first when I am looking
for something, and i don't worry as much as I would if I were spending a comparable amount
on ebay or somewhere else.

So I really hope there is a good resolution to the problem so we don't have to lose this resource !!!!

 

[texaskj]

What she said...exactly.

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

IMHO flipping creates bad feelings. I sold a diamond ring to someone once, and reduced the price because the buyer had limited funds, and wanted to wear the ring as an engagement ring. I was really hurt to see the ring dismantled, and the diamonds sold (with a jeweler's appraisal to size and clarity) two weeks after the buyer received the ring. The buyer made a smart business move and made a tidy profit. I could have done the same if I did not believe in the "preloved" nature of the ring. The ring was loved, and I was willing to sell it cheaper to someone who would love it as well. I think most people are mindful that this forum is a "diamond and jewelry community" and not a place of business when it comes to preloved items. I think banning members who flip for a profit is much better then closing the forum.

 

[justginger]

IMHO flipping creates bad feelings. I sold a diamond ring to someone once, and reduced the price because the buyer had limited funds, and wanted to wear the ring as an engagement ring. I was really hurt to see the ring dismantled, and the diamonds sold (with a jeweler's appraisal to size and clarity) two weeks after the buyer received the ring. The buyer made a smart business move and made a tidy profit. I could have done the same if I did not believe in the "preloved" nature of the ring. The ring was loved, and I was willing to sell it cheaper to someone who would love it as well. I think most people are mindful that this forum is a "diamond and jewelry community" and not a place of business when it comes to preloved items. I think banning members who flip for a profit is much better then closing the forum.

I faintly remember something about this, Lisa. It would have upset me as well; I'm sorry it happened to you.

 

[ruby59]

IMHO flipping creates bad feelings. I sold a diamond ring to someone once, and reduced the price because the buyer had limited funds, and wanted to wear the ring as an engagement ring. I was really hurt to see the ring dismantled, and the diamonds sold (with a jeweler's appraisal to size and clarity) two weeks after the buyer received the ring. The buyer made a smart business move and made a tidy profit. I could have done the same if I did not believe in the "preloved" nature of the ring. The ring was loved, and I was willing to sell it cheaper to someone who would love it as well. I think most people are mindful that this forum is a "diamond and jewelry community" and not a place of business when it comes to preloved items. I think banning members who flip for a profit is much better then closing the forum.

This. Nagged me to death about reducing the price. And then resold here for a tidy profit. Still leaves a bad taste in my mouth about Preloved.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

IMHO flipping creates bad feelings. I sold a diamond ring to someone once, and reduced the price because the buyer had limited funds, and wanted to wear the ring as an engagement ring. I was really hurt to see the ring dismantled, and the diamonds sold (with a jeweler's appraisal to size and clarity) two weeks after the buyer received the ring. The buyer made a smart business move and made a tidy profit. I could have done the same if I did not believe in the "preloved" nature of the ring. The ring was loved, and I was willing to sell it cheaper to someone who would love it as well. I think most people are mindful that this forum is a "diamond and jewelry community" and not a place of business when it comes to preloved items. I think banning members who flip for a profit is much better then closing the forum.

This. Nagged me to death about reducing the price. And then resold here for a tidy profit. Still leaves a bad taste in my mouth about Preloved.

Aw, yeah, I think getting a steal on ebay and selling for a little bit more is one thing. Colored stones of specific requirements can be a needle in a haystack, so if someone wanted to sell a steal for steal+5%, it's probably a win-win. Or if the bought a mahenge spinel for a great price when they first came out, and a year later listed it for a bit more to reflect the large price inflations due to no more new supply, I don't think I'd have any bad feelings, would probably be happy to still likely be paying less than what was available retail.

But dismantling and flipping a piece you bought from another pricescoper seems a bit harsh. :/

 

[lucyruth]

Me! It was me! I was just (temporarily, I guess) banned! And I am happy to talk about it with you.

First, I listed probably a dozen things all total in two posts that I am selling due to financial issues...

I have listed them for, in total, many thousands (!) less than I bought them for. Literally thousands. I buy everything used. Everything. I do not pay retail as I cannot afford it. I don't mind taking a loss sometimes as that's just my poor judgment paying too much for something in the first place!

One item was purchased, used, by me, on eBay. I wore it for three weeks. Then realized I don't really need it, but do need to pay my bills! I listed it higher, as I almost always get low, sometimes very low, offers from diamond bistro and loupe troop and eBay listings. Very rarely does anyone want to pay the listed price. No worries; I almost always try to negotiate a lower price myself! It's just smart to do that.

Fortunately this item sold quickly. Yes, at a lower price than I had listed it at on LoupeTroop. After PayPal, shipping, etc., I don't think there was very much, if any, profit involved.

No, I did not know that I was "flipping". I viewed my personal situation as buyer's remorse after overspending. Ella explained that even if I bought the item and wore it personally, a three week turn around is flipping if the price is higher. Okay. I understand. I have not read any guidelines here... My fault totally! I just viewed posting on this forum as a favor for pricescopers to give each other a heads up on their listings. I guess I'm just a free marketer who is fine with whatever the market will support. I realize that is irrelevant since I was in the wrong here by not making myself aware of, and closely following, the forum policies.

Anyway, everything in my listings, save one, was or is already listed at a large loss to me, just so you know! . The one that is not listed at a loss will probably (hopefully) break even once a sale is complete. I guess I'm not willing to lose a huge amount yet on that particular item since I really like it!

I won't make the "flipping" mistake again! I sure don't want to ruin the forum for everyone else. Just wanted to clear up that I am probably the main culprit responsible for this thread, and to let you know I'm not the evil profiteering flipper you may think I am!

 

[lucyruth]

Oops just wanted to add, I don't think I've ever actually "flipped" here or anywhere else... I'm assuming the definition of flipping is buying low and selling high quickly for a profit? Wish I had a talent to do that in the appropriate venue, but alas, I'm not that talented.
I'm much more prone to buying high and selling low.

Everything I've sold, I've bought for personal "use"... And kept some things longer than others. Sometimes I resell fairly quickly after buying as I always feel so bad asking an ebayer to take a return if its for some reason other than their willful misrepresentation.

Oh, and my five stone, the one with D-E-F stones, is already priced $1000 under what I bought it for!

 

[Patty]

lucyruth, I believe that you are the woman who bought the Kwiat eternity band that Demelza sold last December. She sold it to you for $899. Within a few weeks, that ring was listed with JbEG for $1525. Flipping for a profit is one thing, but the ring is listed there as new and unworn. I know that is not the case because I owned that ring for a year before I sold it to Demelza who then had it for a year.

 

[lucyruth]

I did own a Kwiat band, and sent it to Grace because it was too tight, and asked to to price it whatever she liked as I've told her about anything I sent her. Is that a bad thing? Sometimes sending something along to Grace is easier than selling yourself, but honestly I doubt it's sold, and I'm close to asking for it back to auction on eBay since I can't wear it.

I certainly didn't advertise it on here.

Edited to add: I actually think I sent to Grace because it was both too snug AND bothered my fingers, like every eternity I've owned. The person I bought it from told me later that someone else was interested if i wanted to resell (I must have mentioned that it wasn't working for me) but unfortunately I'd already sent it away. In case these details are important to anyone!

 

[ame]

I did own a Kwiat band, and sent it to Grace because it was too tight, and asked to to price it whatever she liked as I've told her about anything I sent her. Is that a bad thing? Sometimes sending something along to Grace is easier than selling yourself, but honestly I doubt it's sold, and I'm close to asking for it back to auction on eBay since I can't wear it.

I certainly didn't advertise it on here.

Edited to add: I actually think I sent to Grace because it was both too snug AND bothered my fingers, like every eternity I've owned. The person I bought it from told me later that someone else was interested if i wanted to resell (I must have mentioned that it wasn't working for me) but unfortunately I'd already sent it away. In case these details are important to anyone!

I think you're avoiding the point. You didn't disclose the fact in the listing that it was preworn and preowned, and it's listed as new and unworn, which is a lie. So either you didn't tell JBEG those facts, or they opted not to disclose those facts. And given your history as a flipper, whatever your explanations are for each situation, I am more inclined to believe the former. Besides that, it's listed at nearly double what you paid for it, and whatever number JBEG listed it as on the site, you had to agree to it. Either way, it's still flipping for profit, no matter how you wish to describe your reasoning. It sounds like you're trying to pass the buck for your indiscretions, blaming JBEG or whatever. Sure, some people want the money back for things that don't work out. But that isn't what your case looks like, and since you came here admitting fault, people will call you out for it as Patty just did.

 

[lucyruth]

Yes I totally admit I should not have advertised an item on pricescope for profit. But otherwise, no, I don't think I did anything wrong.

I don't think I told Grace anything about the Kwiat ring I sent her, just sent it to her with a bundle of stuff I need sold, and she sends it along for a presale appraisal. I don't write descriptions. Perhaps Dave atlas or whoever thinks it looks unworn? I didn't wear it. But whatever. I haven't even read the description of it on jbeg. Grace asks me if a price is ok, and I'm fine with whatever she thinks. Is that wrong? I'm not sure I see how.

I'm perfectly fine to take the blame for the "flipper" chastisement. I have no problem in admitting I overpriced something for pricescope according to their forum rules. Totally my fault.

I don't categorize myself as a "flipper". But if I was, I'd be abolutely thrilled a make a profit! So I guess there's not much else to say about it from my end! I'm sorry I broke rules here that I didn't even bother reading, but am not sorry to move jewelry i don't need along to other owners and am relieved when I can make some of the money back, like any other free market capitalist.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Okay, if I bought something and then a year later decided to consign it with someone who was going to take 25-30% for commission, I'd price it higher, too. People offer lower than the listing price, then you pay commission, so the chances of making a profit are SLIM! I do not know anything about anyone here flipping. But flipping is buying not for personal use and quickly reselling for a profit. I think girls here buy OEC's and other jewelry all the time, find better ones, and then sell the ones that they don't want to keep. I think the safe thing to do is to list items that have not been owned for some time on the other sites and not here.

I will say that if a consigned item has an error in the listing on a jeweler's site, it certainly is the seller's responsibility to contact them and ask them to change the error.

 

[Gypsy]

I've flipped. I keep it off the boards after it was deemed a violation of forum rules (about a month after the new forum went up). Enough said.

And no need to be judgmental about people who chose to flip. If you don't like it: don't do it or buy from people who do.

Okay folks? Grow the heck up; live and let live.

Why is this an issue, even.

Rule: No flipping posts on PS pre-loved (or anywhere else).

Your job: Obey.

End of story.

 

[ruby59]

I do not think it is just a matter of not being judgmental or choosing not to buy from flippers. It is because some still do not appear to get it and if it continues, everyone will lose the Preloved board.

Also, someone should alert JBEG, but it does puzzle me how both she and Mr. Atlas could not detect the ring was not brand new.