Warning: FLIPPING will close this forum. Please read.

[Gypsy]

Ruby, you mis-interpreted one of my posts. Again. Thanks though. It's wonderful to 'corrected' for admonished things you explicitly did not say. Always a pleasure.

 

[hlmr]

I've flipped. I keep it off the boards after it was deemed a violation of forum rules (about a month after the new forum went up). Enough said.

And no need to be judgmental about people who chose to flip. If you don't like it: don't do it or buy from people who do.

Okay folks? Grow the heck up; live and let live.

Why is this an issue, even.

Rule: No flipping posts on PS pre-loved (or anywhere else).

Your job: Obey.

End of story.

First of all, not sure why you need to tell people to grow up? The rule is no flipping on PS. Maybe you can just respect it, without being flippant.

Secondly, telling people your job is to obey? Not sure why you needed to say that either...if it is a PS rule, then it is quite obviously what PSers are supposed to do. If some PSers choose to do business via another venue, and make some money, then good for them.

And thirdly, I don't see how ruby misinterpreted your post. I think she understood and reiterated it quite clearly.

Of course, I know no back stories, and my motivation is just in hoping that this forum stays as is. I really don't understand why you are taking everything so personally, since you stopped flipping when the new rule was made. If this thread starts getting nasty, then it will just be another nail in the coffin, and from what I have read, most PSers would not want to see that happen.

 

[Gypsy]

Okay so since you ALSO did not understand my post. Maybe the problem isn't ruby and it was that I was unclear. I am not taking anything personally. I just do not like people attributing things to me that I have not said.


Let me be clear. This is why I had a problem with Ruby's post. Here's what she said:

I do not think it is just a matter of not being judgmental or choosing not to buy from flippers. It is because some still do not appear to get it and if it continues, everyone will lose the Preloved board.

In her first sentence disagrees with the assertion that that closing the forum has anything to do with "being judgmental or choosing not to buy from flippers." Great. But. I never asserted that was the reason the forum was in jeopardy. So she is responding to an assertion that I did not make-- that NO ONE made, in fact. And by responding in that manner she attributes to me an assertion that I did not make. Then in her second sentence she goes on to CORRECT the assertion stating that rather, in her opinion, the issue is "if it continues, everyone will lose Preloved...." Which is stating the obvious: since that is what Ella's original post said. And I did not argue with that. So she mis-interprets my post, then disagrees with her interpretation of my post. And makes it sound like I do not understand why the forum is in jeopardy. When I do, in fact, understand what the issue is and never stated otherwise.

As for obey. You can take offense to my word choice all you like, the the reality is. PS is privately owned. There are rules and we OBEY THEM if we want to stay. Call it what you want. I call it OBEY.

As for the 'grow up' comment. What do you call it when people are told a rule. Repeatedly. Then wantonly ignore that rule, and cause something that everyone else enjoys to be eliminated out of their disregard. Now... I said "grow up" in response to that. Because I was implying that it was childish. Perhaps what I should have said is that the people who are not OBEYING the rules are selfish jerks. That would also be true. But I was TRYING to be nice by attributing it to immaturity instead.

So in brief. My post, which may have been unclear, was meant to say: "Look I've flipped. Regardless of what you think of flipping, the moderators have stated it is against the rules. Theirs is the only opinion on this issue that matters so there is no point in fighting it. Stop being immature and putting the Preloved board in jeopardy by breaking the rules and instead be mature and obey the rules you agreed to by being a member of this forum."

Clear?

 

[hlmr]

Okay so since you ALSO did not understand my post. Maybe the problem isn't ruby and it was that I was unclear. I am not taking anything personally. I just do not like people attributing things to me that I have not said.


Let me be clear. This is why I had a problem with Ruby's post. Here's what she said:

I do not think it is just a matter of not being judgmental or choosing not to buy from flippers. It is because some still do not appear to get it and if it continues, everyone will lose the Preloved board.

In her first sentence disagrees with the assertion that that closing the forum has anything to do with "being judgmental or choosing not to buy from flippers." Great. But. I never asserted that was the reason the forum was in jeopardy. So she is responding to an assertion that I did not make-- that NO ONE made, in fact. And by responding in that manner she attributes to me an assertion that I did not make. Then in her second sentence she goes on to CORRECT the assertion stating that rather, in her opinion, the issue is "if it continues, everyone will lose Preloved...." Which is stating the obvious: since that is what Ella's original post said. And I did not argue with that. So she mis-interprets my post, then disagrees with her interpretation of my post. And makes it sound like I do not understand why the forum is in jeopardy. When I do, in fact, understand what the issue is and never stated otherwise.

I read it as her not disagreeing, but saying that it is in addition to the fact that not all get it that we will all lose the preloved forum if it continues.

As for obey. You can take offense to my word choice all you like, the the reality is. PS is privately owned. There are rules and we OBEY THEM if we want to stay. Call it what you want. I call it OBEY.

I personally don't feel a need to call it obey, as I have no issue with following the rules of said privately owned company. I have the option of going elsewhere if I am feeling repressed.

As for the 'grow up' comment. What do you call it when people are told a rule. Repeatedly. Then wantonly ignore that rule, and cause something that everyone else enjoys to be eliminated out of their disregard. Now... I said "grow up" in response to that. Because I was implying that it was childish. Perhaps what I should have said is that the people who are not OBEYING the rules are selfish jerks. That would also be true. But I was TRYING to be nice by attributing it to immaturity instead.

Grow up, is what people say when they don't know how else to express themselves, often voiced by frustrated parents to their children. I don't really see how it is applicable in this scenario.


So in brief. My post, which may have been unclear, was meant to say: "Look I've flipped. Regardless of what you think of flipping, the moderators have stated it is against the rules. Theirs is the only opinion on this issue that matters so there is no point in fighting it. Stop being immature and putting the Preloved board in jeopardy by breaking the rules and instead be mature and obey the rules you agreed to by being a member of this forum."

Clear?

 

[hlmr]

double post...

 

[Gypsy]

I read it as her not disagreeing, but saying that it is in addition to the fact that not all get it that we will all lose the preloved forum if it continues.


I personally don't feel a need to call it obey, as I have no issue with following the rules of said privately owned company. I have the option of going elsewhere if I am feeling repressed.



Grow up, is what people say when they don't know how else to express themselves, often voiced by frustrated parents to their children. I don't really see how it is applicable in this scenario.

1st point. Okay. So the theory is that there are people with poor comprehension of cause and effect that do not understand that when Ella says "if you keep doing this, we're going to shut down the board," that's what will happen if they do not modify their behavior ? I don't think that's the issue. I think that they get it. They just don't seem to care.

Second point, calling it obey or not doesn't change the fact that the choices are "obey" or "leave". At no point does: "ruin the boards for everyone else because you don't agree with the rules" become one of the choices.

Third point. Didn't you just imply that *I* was the one being nasty? Pots and kettles, m'dear.

 

[hlmr]

I read it as her not disagreeing, but saying that it is in addition to the fact that not all get it that we will all lose the preloved forum if it continues.


I personally don't feel a need to call it obey, as I have no issue with following the rules of said privately owned company. I have the option of going elsewhere if I am feeling repressed.



Grow up, is what people say when they don't know how else to express themselves, often voiced by frustrated parents to their children. I don't really see how it is applicable in this scenario.

1st point. Okay. I can see that. Maybe there are people with poor comprehension of cause and effect that do not understand that when Ella says "if you keep doing this, we're going to shut down the board," that's what will happen if they do not modify their behavior. Personally, I don't think it's the comprehension that's the issue. I don't think that they don't get it. I think that they get it. They just don't seem to care.

I don't see poor comprehension with Ruby's comment, or with my thoughts. I am quite aware of cause and effect and feel confident that everyone reading is well aware of the consequence of losing the board if the flipping continues. Of course there are those who just don't care, and hopefully they will be called to task, instead of everyone else.

Second point, calling it obey or not doesn't change the fact that the choices are "obey" or "leave". At no point does: "ruin the boards for everyone else because you don't agree with the rules" become one of the choices.

IMO, the way you were using the term obey, conveys a sense of mindlessness, therefore derogatory in most peoples minds.

Third point. Didn't you just imply that *I* was the one being nasty? Pots and kettles, m'dear.

I am trying to be objective. Telling someone to grow up, arouses a certain response, and it is not a warm and fuzzy one, wouldn't you agree?

 

[movie zombie]

geez, what's gotten into everyone?!
everyone got Ella's point.
they either care or they don't.
pissing, moaning and groaning at one another isn't going to change that.
perhaps this forum should be shut down if its going to create havoc and the desire to go for one another's throats.

 

[hlmr]

geez, what's gotten into everyone?!
everyone got Ella's point.
they either care or they don't.
pissing, moaning and groaning at one another isn't going to change that.
perhaps this forum should be shut down if its going to create havoc and the desire to go for one another's throats.

Not pissing or moaning at all, just talking. I heard Ella loud and clear.

I know you expressed your feelings on this topic by saying you are put off by this forum because of flipping.

I was just expressing mine. I certainly don't want to see this forum shut down either.

 

[nala]

I was also accused of flipping and I tried to reason with Ella that I was not flipping. Like all the other jewelry addicts, I made a hobby of buying estate jewelry, enjoying it, only to find that I needed to sell it to fund other new purchases...it's very addicting to get caught in this cycle. Not ever did I make a profit...I was lucky if I ever recovered 80% of my original cost. I sold most of my items on EBAY and not once did I sell (to my knowledge) to a Pricescoper. I did find it very unfair that I was accused of flipping when there are SEVERAL other regular posters who post and sell their items on a REGULAR basis. I questioned Ella why certain members were allowed to post items with a high frequency under the titles:" liquidation, clearing out jewelry box, etc". and why I was suspected immediately....she never addressed this question and instead insisted that I was a flipper. I felt indignant so I stopped posting on preloved, but I am glad that issue is finally being addressed.

 

[IE_Princess]

Also, someone should alert JBEG, but it does puzzle me how both she and Mr. Atlas could not detect the ring was not brand new.

Maybe I'm not looking at the right piece, but it doesn't appear that David Atlas did a pre-qualitative report on the Kwiat band, so I wouldn't blame him. I don't think they send every piece to him, and the ones that the do always have the report as one of the smugmug images.

 

[FrekeChild]

I did find it very unfair that I was accused of flipping when there are SEVERAL other regular posters who post and sell their items on a REGULAR basis. I questioned Ella why certain members were allowed to post items with a high frequency under the titles:" liquidation, clearing out jewelry box, etc".

Hmmm...Sounds to me like you were trying to divert some blame. I have posted lots of my stuff here and luckily sold most of it under titles such as "Another Freke Liquidation". Sound familiar?

I'm always positively delighted when I get anywhere close to making my money back, which is actually pretty rare. And I think most people around here are happy to get close to what they paid. I know that when I buy something, I usually make an emotional connection to that item, and I'm typically really sad to see things go (I won't cry any more tears about that emerald spinel!)

Selling a whole jewelry box of one's items does not constitute as flipping, and really, why should it? Buying low and selling quickly for a profit does. But that requires proof. There has to be a tangible virtual paper trail that a person is flipping, for the mods to give it ANY consideration, and I hope they don't take offense to me saying that, as we aren't supposed to talk about what they do on the forum.

Anyone that buys off of ebay needs to realize that there are probably at least a dozen PSers watching those very same auctions, and ebay lists how much things sold for long after the auction is over. Those same PSers are watching DB and LT. It's not rocket science, people!

 

[nala]

Frekechild, diverting blame would assume that I actually had any blame to begin with. If you found a reference to any of your posts in my post, and you are a regular poster, that is your own conclusion and maybe you yourself are trying to come clean.....

The reason that I posted about my accusation is that I felt that Ella doubted that someone like me could actually own all of the preloved pieces and that like you, I too could be clearing out my jewelry box for the same reason that you do every so often! I didn't realize that you had to be on special terms with Ella to be allowed several posts on preloved. I don't recall Ella ever taking inventory of my jewelry box or auditing my bank account, to see if indeed I had the resources to own those pieces that I was trying to unload. The only difference between your posts and mine is that you lump all of your items together and call them a liquidation, whereas I would take my time and list them individually (I had to go through a selection process).

Please show me proof that I was buying off EBAY or other sites and FLIPPING because that is simply not true! Where is all this proof?

 

[Ella]

Ladies, enough. If you wish to discuss our actions with us we would be happy to discuss it off the forums. On a forum where individuals show off their jewelry each time they get a new piece, often with details of how much they paid or when they aquired it, we tend to watch preloved listing that have never appeared on PS before, particularly for high value items and in many different sizes.

Nala, we politely asked you to be careful, and you are taking it out of proportion. If you recall, you have an ebay account with over 5,000 items sold, many of them jewelry, and many of them sizes other than your size, makes us suspicious that something was occurring other than cleaning out a jewelry box. We are making no judgements on who can or cannot afford an item, but a large ebay store with many jewelry listings will get us suspicious.

Generally we keep these details private, but since you wish to discuss our private conversations publicly, we can easily share our side as well.

 

[nala]

Ella, You may discuss openly about me...I have nothing to hide. You never once showed me proof. Selling old pieces on ebay, none of which were purchased on ebay or other sites, does not prove flipping...it proves that like all the others here, I WAS UNLOADING MY UNWANTED ITEMS....and as to the sizes that varied in 1 or 2 sizes....THERE ARE DIFFERENT SIZED FINGERS!!! AND WHO IS TO SAY THAT I COULD NOT BE SELLING A RING FOR A RELATIVE? ALL THE ONES THAT I POSTED ON THIS SITE WERE ACTUALLY MINE AND MY SIZE.

EVEN NOW, ELLA, YOU ARE GOING OUT OF YOUR WAY TO SINGLE ME OUT!

 

[Ella]

No, I am not Nala. You are taking it very personally. We have had similar conversations with others who were also selling large volumes of items that we have never seen on Pricescope. We did not ban you from posting or ask you to stop selling, just to be careful as others also thought your listings were suspicious.

That is very different than removing someone's listings with proof they are flipping, which is what we have done recently to a number of posters.

If you would like to discuss, please email us without attacking and we would be happy to discuss it.

 

[nala]

Ella,
Thank you for clarifying...this is what I was getting at in my original post...that I am glad that you are finally addressing this issue.

 

[Laila619]

IMHO flipping creates bad feelings. I sold a diamond ring to someone once, and reduced the price because the buyer had limited funds, and wanted to wear the ring as an engagement ring. I was really hurt to see the ring dismantled, and the diamonds sold (with a jeweler's appraisal to size and clarity) two weeks after the buyer received the ring. The buyer made a smart business move and made a tidy profit. I could have done the same if I did not believe in the "preloved" nature of the ring. The ring was loved, and I was willing to sell it cheaper to someone who would love it as well. I think most people are mindful that this forum is a "diamond and jewelry community" and not a place of business when it comes to preloved items. I think banning members who flip for a profit is much better then closing the forum.

This. Nagged me to death about reducing the price. And then resold here for a tidy profit. Still leaves a bad taste in my mouth about Preloved.

I'm sorry someone did that to you, Lisa and ruby. I can see how that would be very upsetting.

 

[movie zombie]

ok, i'm going to say this once: don't like the rules, don't post your items for sale.
the website is a privately owned entity.
as such it is entitled to set the rules.
don't like the rules?
don't post items for sale.
it really is that simple.

Ella, your patience is unlimited.....not a bad thing but not necessarily a good thing either.
just sayin'.

 

[AGBF]

I know I said (on July 19) that I was going to come here more often, but I think I really thought all the action was in Hangout due to the spirited debate over the birth of Prince George of Cambridge and the attendant questions about British royalty that ensued. Little did I know that the big guns were out here and that you had gotten Ella engaged without getting the thread closed. Wow.

Deb

 

[pregcurious]

Can you please sticky this?