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What do I need to know about LGD

breanne

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
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510
Good morning,

I wanted to create this thread because I have been contemplating a LGD ever since I heard of them about a year ago. I'm still in the learning phase, so I thought to share where I'm at in hopes to get some advice and feedback. If you were to ask me if I'd prefer a diamond from the ground vs a LGD, I'd likely say a diamond from the ground, but I think that's because I don't really understand the difference.

It is my understand that a quality LGD does not differ to a diamond from the ground (can't recall the official term we are using). Is this in fact true? If I were to wear a LGD and a diamond from the ground, no one could tell the difference and it would maintain and wear the same over years to come?

I know in a post I had read a while back someone talked about the resale value, while I can understand this, and it did make me wonder too, I don't know if that is how I should be looking at it anyway? I think the reason the "resale" value on my current diamond was important was because I knew I wanted to upgrade, but if I were to get the carat size I wanted, this concern should be limited. In the event that I do lose the value, I would not care as much as I would not be as much out of pocket if I were to get it for the cost of a diamond from the ground. I hope that made sense. I would probably lose the same amount either way essentially, if not more for the *real diamond*.

What's most important to me is that they look identical, I know many love moissanite, but I personally can tell the difference (absolutely happy for anyone who loves what they love), but for me, I know I would not cherish it the same.

I am open to all information, I have a lot more questions about *choosing* the LGD, but I think that might come up in some of the responses.

Thank you very much!
Breanne

** also, I've attached a photo of the diamond size I love. She is on a tv network where I'm from, she was so kind to send a photo, but I didn't feel it would be appropriate to ask its dimensions/carat. I know this would be hard to answer, but what is the average dimension/carat I would need for this look on a size 5 finger?
 

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The good news is that a quality LGD is completely identical to an EGD: the chemical composition, the atomic structure, the refractive index, the hardness, and the single refraction*

You've already stated the primary concern: the potential loss of value the day you take delivery of an LGD, but you also understand that the amount you save on an LGD vs an equivalently 4C EGD is usually still much less than the delta between cost and realistic resale value of that EGD.

There are some things to watch out for:
Some HPHT can have traces of boron, making them a Type IIb and have a slight blue. For diamonds in the D-F colorless range that exhibit this tint, it will not be listed on the grading report...not from IGI, GIA, or GCAL. You'll often see it referred to as "undisclosed blue nuance".

Almost all CVD diamonds have PGT (post-growth treatment) to improve the state of clarity and color over how the rough comes out of the growth chamber. There are some lingering detractors to be cautious of and look out for:
- Striation/graining causing transparency issues.
- Brownish, brownish-yellow, and brownish-pink tints are probably the most common.
- *in rare cases, birifrengence can happen.
...my personal viewpoint is that I would never buy an EGD that needed treatment to improve color or clarity, so I am also going to apply that mindset to LGDs and not let unscrupulous growers continue getting away with a cheated growth process. My final stand is that any CVD diamond should be vetted by a knowledgeable gemologist to rule out any issues. Seems harsh, I know, but I like to take "quality for money" as the first priority when shopping for or making recommendations for LGDs.
 
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My guesstimate would be the diamond in the picture is somewhere between 1.6-1.9 carat (7.5-9.0mm diameter) on a size 5.

Do you have a budget in mind and any preferred (or avoidance) sellers in mind?
 
Yes they will look and behave and last identically. Maybe that pic is a 2ct? Have you checked out lightbox jewelry?
 
The good news is that a quality LGD is completely identical to an EGD: the chemical composition, the atomic structure, the refractive index, the hardness, and the single refraction*

You've already stated the primary concern: the potential loss of value the day you take delivery of an LGD, but you also understand that the amount you save on an LGD vs an equivalently 4C EGD is usually still much less than the delta between cost and realistic resale value of that EGD.

There are some things to watch out for:
Some HPHT can have traces of boron, making them a Type IIb and have a slight blue. For diamonds in the D-F colorless range that exhibit this tint, it will not be listed on the grading report...not from IGI, GIA, or GCAL. You'll often see it referred to as "undisclosed blue nuance".

Almost all CVD diamonds have PGT (post-growth treatment) to improve the state of clarity and color over how the rough comes out of the growth chamber. There are some lingering detractors to be cautious of and look out for:
- Striation/graining causing transparency issues.
- Brownish, brownish-yellow, and brownish-pink tints are probably the most common.
- *in rare cases, birifrengence can happen.
...my personal viewpoint is that I would never buy an EGD that needed treatment to improve color or clarity, so I am also going to apply that mindset to LGDs and not let unscrupulous growers continue getting away with a cheated growth process. My final stand is that any CVD diamond should be vetted by a knowledgeable gemologist to rule out any issues. Seems harsh, I know, but I like to take "quality for money" as the first priority when shopping for or making recommendations for LGDs.

Thank you greatly! I have seen many of your posts, I'm in graduate school so I sometimes have more time than others to go through forums.

I googled HPHT and CVD, so my understanding is because most CVD have PGT, likely not a great choice? So, would the more ideal choice be HPHT?

I would use someone to help me choose, I did with my EGD, I am very happy with it. I get a tonne of compliments, I used to remember the reason why I chose these specs, but all I know now is that its sparkles beautifully. I had thought the image I sent was much bigger than a 2 carat, I will attach another from her IG, it looks quite large, I was under the impression maybe 3.5-5 ... clearly I have no idea what the size is then haha.

At this point I would be looking somewhere between 3-5 carat as I feel if I can't get any value from the LGD (assumingly lets say), I rather have something I know I can be happy with long term. The expense may not be that of a EGD, but it is still substantial for something on your finger.

I am Canadian so the price is hard to say because I know prices are in USD, even for my EGD it was. All of this to say, I am not sure how far my dollar would go for the specs I would need. I am also unsure how a J color would be in a larger diameter, I certainly don't mind it now, but that is something I can't speak to for anything larger. I don't mind a lower clarity as long as it's eye clean (assuming that is a thing with LGD as well?).

I would not want to compromise cut for anything, then of course the details you provided to be cautious of.

My current diamond is:
Round - 1.43 J SI1 (eye clean)
Measurement 7.17-7.23 x 4.42mm
HCA Score 1.2
Fluorescence none
Depth 61.4
Table 58
CA 34
CH 14.5
PA 40.8
PD 43
Star length 50
Lower half 80
Girdle med to slightly thick, faceted 4.0
Culet none
 

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Thank you greatly! I have seen many of your posts, I'm in graduate school so I sometimes have more time than others to go through forums.

I googled HPHT and CVD, so my understanding is because most CVD have PGT, likely not a great choice? So, would the more ideal choice be HPHT?

I would use someone to help me choose, I did with my EGD, I am very happy with it. I get a tonne of compliments, I used to remember the reason why I chose these specs, but all I know now is that its sparkles beautifully. I had thought the image I sent was much bigger than a 2 carat, I will attach another from her IG, it looks quite large, I was under the impression maybe 3.5-5 ... clearly I have no idea what the size is then haha.

At this point I would be looking somewhere between 3-5 carat as I feel if I can't get any value from the LGD (assumingly lets say), I rather have something I know I can be happy with long term. The expense may not be that of a EGD, but it is still substantial for something on your finger.

I am Canadian so the price is hard to say because I know prices are in USD, even for my EGD it was. All of this to say, I am not sure how far my dollar would go for the specs I would need. I am also unsure how a J color would be in a larger diameter, I certainly don't mind it now, but that is something I can't speak to for anything larger. I don't mind a lower clarity as long as it's eye clean (assuming that is a thing with LGD as well?).

I would not want to compromise cut for anything, then of course the details you provided to be cautious of.

My current diamond is:
Round - 1.43 J SI1 (eye clean)
Measurement 7.17-7.23 x 4.42mm
HCA Score 1.2
Fluorescence none
Depth 61.4
Table 58
CA 34
CH 14.5
PA 40.8
PD 43
Star length 50
Lower half 80
Girdle med to slightly thick, faceted 4.0
Culet none

I'm going to link but one example from JA to give you a basic idea of pricing from one of the more popular sellers that has a vast inventory of HPHT diamonds.


With a bit of searching, there are a handful of other recommended vendors that also have quality LGD diamonds, so a great deal can be had.
 
So, I think the diamond you posted is somewhere around 3-3.5 carats, here is a 3 ct on my size 4 finger (in pretty much the exact same setting as the inspiration picture too!):
20220129_111737.jpg
20220129_111337.jpg
 
So, I think the diamond you posted is somewhere around 3-3.5 carats, here is a 3 ct on my size 4 finger (in pretty much the exact same setting as the inspiration picture too!):
20220129_111737.jpg
20220129_111337.jpg

I stand corrected...the one posted is definitely bigger than my initial guess of 1.6-1.9ct.
 
Thank you greatly! I have seen many of your posts, I'm in graduate school so I sometimes have more time than others to go through forums.

I googled HPHT and CVD, so my understanding is because most CVD have PGT, likely not a great choice? So, would the more ideal choice be HPHT?

I would use someone to help me choose, I did with my EGD, I am very happy with it. I get a tonne of compliments, I used to remember the reason why I chose these specs, but all I know now is that its sparkles beautifully. I had thought the image I sent was much bigger than a 2 carat, I will attach another from her IG, it looks quite large, I was under the impression maybe 3.5-5 ... clearly I have no idea what the size is then haha.

At this point I would be looking somewhere between 3-5 carat as I feel if I can't get any value from the LGD (assumingly lets say), I rather have something I know I can be happy with long term. The expense may not be that of a EGD, but it is still substantial for something on your finger.

I am Canadian so the price is hard to say because I know prices are in USD, even for my EGD it was. All of this to say, I am not sure how far my dollar would go for the specs I would need. I am also unsure how a J color would be in a larger diameter, I certainly don't mind it now, but that is something I can't speak to for anything larger. I don't mind a lower clarity as long as it's eye clean (assuming that is a thing with LGD as well?).

I would not want to compromise cut for anything, then of course the details you provided to be cautious of.

My current diamond is:
Round - 1.43 J SI1 (eye clean)
Measurement 7.17-7.23 x 4.42mm
HCA Score 1.2
Fluorescence none
Depth 61.4
Table 58
CA 34
CH 14.5
PA 40.8
PD 43
Star length 50
Lower half 80
Girdle med to slightly thick, faceted 4.0
Culet none

I agree with vintageinjune that your inspiration ring looks to be 3-3.5cts. vintageinjune, your set is gorgeous! :love:

HPHT has fewer potential issues to sort through, and is closer to a natural diamond in the way it's made, so I feel it's a "safer" choice. However, there are beautiful CVD diamonds with GCAL 8x reports. And vendors like Distinctive Gem run full analyses on their diamonds, so you could find a good CVD through them.

If you have a J now, I think you could easily go to G in a 3ct+ stone. Clarity is the same as with natural diamonds--in a 3-3.5ct, I'd go with an eye-clean VS2 or a VS1.
 
I'm going to link but one example from JA to give you a basic idea of pricing from one of the more popular sellers that has a vast inventory of HPHT diamonds.


With a bit of searching, there are a handful of other recommended vendors that also have quality LGD diamonds, so a great deal can be had.

Thank you! I think I may need to go check out a 3.5-4.5 carat to see where I'm at in terms of size. Might be a good starting point, I had tried to do this sometime last year, but with COVID and constant lockdowns, I had to put things on the backburner.

This may be a foolish question, but why do LGD still have inclusions etc. Are they able to create the *perfect* stone each and every time, or is this just the process?
 
Thank you! I think I may need to go check out a 3.5-4.5 carat to see where I'm at in terms of size. Might be a good starting point, I had tried to do this sometime last year, but with COVID and constant lockdowns, I had to put things on the backburner.

This may be a foolish question, but why do LGD still have inclusions etc. Are they able to create the *perfect* stone each and every time, or is this just the process?

It's all in the process. Since they are grown in chambers under intense conditions, there can be microscopic to near-microscopic bits of metallic flash, as well as some types of inclusions that also occur naturally such as crystals, feathers, pinpoints, clouds, and the like.

Here's a sizeable HPHT with beautiful proportions and angles that looks to be a stunner. Not sure if it would be within budget.

 
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It's all in the process. Since they are grown in chambers under intense conditions, there can be microscopic to near-microscopic bits of metallic flash, as well as some types of inclusions that also occur naturally such as crystals, feathers, pinpoints, clouds, and the like.

Here's a sizeable HPHT with beautiful proportions and angles that looks to be a stunner. Not sure if it would be within budget.


Holy, this is beautiful. Definitely out of my budget, but it does make you appreciate the crispness of the colorless range. I don't know if I *need* to go colorless, although I do admit I may need to come up from my J given the size increase. I also don't think I *need* the clarity to be that high either, but I am open to many possibilities.

I would say my budget is under 20k. With that said, I just poked around, is this because it's a CVD that it's priced so *low*.

 
Holy, this is beautiful. Definitely out of my budget, but it does make you appreciate the crispness of the colorless range. I don't know if I *need* to go colorless, although I do admit I may need to come up from my J given the size increase. I also don't think I *need* the clarity to be that high either, but I am open to many possibilities.

I would say my budget is under 20k. With that said, I just poked around, is this because it's a CVD that it's priced so *low*.


Good question! Im curious too now
 
Holy, this is beautiful. Definitely out of my budget, but it does make you appreciate the crispness of the colorless range. I don't know if I *need* to go colorless, although I do admit I may need to come up from my J given the size increase. I also don't think I *need* the clarity to be that high either, but I am open to many possibilities.

I would say my budget is under 20k. With that said, I just poked around, is this because it's a CVD that it's priced so *low*.


Mostly the color grade and maybe even lower quality of the rough is driving the price point.
IGI J could be equivalent to GIA J-M.

$20k is a very healthy budget that'll get you an amazing LGD.

Here you go!

Here's the rotational view of this same diamond:
 
No worries about a decent quality LGD looking different. @DejaWiz gave you a rundown.

I’ll just add that there is a continuum of quality and some personal preference involved. For example, some people like the pinkish brown tint of certain CVD diamonds and seek them out. Some people like blue nuance in HPHT diamonds the same way some people like blue fluorescence in EGD. LGD may have orange phosphorescence under UV light but some of us think that’s cool, too.

I have not heard anyone claim that they can tell with the naked eye that a diamond is lab grown. If you get a HPHT with blue nuance and visible black metal inclusions that make the diamond magnetic, someone who knows diamonds might catch on that it is a LGD. But you should be able to avoid those by going with a reputable vendor.
 
No worries about a decent quality LGD looking different. @DejaWiz gave you a rundown.

I’ll just add that there is a continuum of quality and some personal preference involved. For example, some people like the pinkish brown tint of certain CVD diamonds and seek them out. Some people like blue nuance in HPHT diamonds the same way some people like blue fluorescence in EGD. LGD may have orange phosphorescence under UV light but some of us think that’s cool, too.

I have not heard anyone claim that they can tell with the naked eye that a diamond is lab grown. If you get a HPHT with blue nuance and visible black metal inclusions that make the diamond magnetic, someone who knows diamonds might catch on that it is a LGD. But you should be able to avoid those by going with a reputable vendor.

Thank you! I know it can be hard to answer these types of questions as some of it will come down to preference as you mentioned.

I guess my main concern is, if I were to get a quality LGD, does it sparkle the same as it's EGD comparison in all light settings? And will it stay like that forever, like a EGD.

If they act the same and hold up the same, I don't have any reason not to choose a LGD. I know many prefer the EGD, just as many need to have a close to flawless clarity, some people can't even do eye clean, they need mind clean, or even colorless, so again, these things come down to preference.

I wouldn't value it less because it's lab made, I value the beauty, which is where I think I might be a good fit for a LGD. Of course because my desire would be to *invest* in a larger stone, I want to make sure I'm filtering out some of the obvious drawbacks a LGD might present. This is still an expensive purchase, so while it may not be as expensive as it could be, it's a considerable purchase.

Also, since I will likely have to stick with this stone for a long time, is there a possibility that the quality of it would change? Not in the actual stone itself, but could it eventually be seen as less superior than a newer advancements for LGD? I hope that makes sense.
 
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So this one does have a slight bit of blue nuance, but it caught my eye:

https://www.adiamor.com/Lab-Diamonds/3.55-ct-G-VS1-Affinity-Cut-Round-Diamond/D48962184?rfr=search - $17,330

Hi, thank you so much! :)

The 17k is actually in USD, so it comes up to around 23k CAD. Not too bad, but you can definitely see how the USD rate really changes the cost for us Canadians lol.

I am going to email a jewelry store tomorrow to see if they have any larger stones, this way I can tackle a size range better than just an idea off the top of my head.
 
Thank you! I know it can be hard to answer these types of questions as some of it will come down to preference as you mentioned.

I guess my main concern is, if I were to get a quality LGD, does it sparkle the same as it's EGD comparison in all light settings? And will it stay like that forever, like a EGD.

If they act the same and hold up the same, I don't have any reason not to choose a LGD. I know many prefer the EGD, just as many need to have a close to flawless clarity, some people can't even do eye clean, they need mind clean, or even colorless, so again, these things come down to preference.

I wouldn't value it less because it's lab made, I value the beauty, which is where I think I might be a good fit for a LGD. Of course because my desire would be to *invest* in a larger stone, I want to make sure I'm filtering out some of the obvious drawbacks a LGD might present. This is still an expensive purchase, so while it may not be as expensive as it could be, it's a considerable purchase.

Also, since I will likely have to stick with this stone for a long time, is there a possibility that the quality of it would change? Not in the actual stone itself, but could it eventually be seen as less superior than a newer advancements for LGD? I hope that makes sense.

Short answer: no, it won't change in appearance over time. Just as with EGDs, LGDs are also forever. They truly are a wonder of science...that humans have "cracked the code", so to speak, to be able to synthesize in a matter of weeks what takes the Earth eons.
 
Short answer: no, it won't change in appearance over time. Just as with EGDs, LGDs are also forever. They truly are a wonder of science...that humans have "cracked the code", so to speak, to be able to synthesize in a matter of weeks what takes the Earth eons.

Maybe that's why I keep asking a similar question in different ways, it seems like a code was cracked! haha. Pretty exciting.
 
Good idea on contacting your local jeweler to see if you can view sizes IRL. Now, the diameter of my stone is 9.1mm, so 9.5+ should give the same effect on a size 5 finger.

Knowing you are trying to keep it under $20k CAD, I found this one - 3.51 ct, H, VS1, with a 9.71-9/64 spread for roughly $17,900 CAD.
 
Also, since I will likely have to stick with this stone for a long time, is there a possibility that the quality of it would change? Not in the actual stone itself, but could it eventually be seen as less superior than a newer advancements for LGD? I hope that makes sense.

I think HPHT would be a better bet with regard to this question, just because it's closer to the way a natural diamond is made. This is purely speculation on my part, but I feel like CVD technology could get better over time, where stones won't have as many striations or need post-growth treatment to improve color and clarity. Whereas I feel like if you find an HPHT stone without blue nuance, it's as good as it's going to get for LGD.
 
I don't know how to tag more than one of you, but I had a question regarding "buy back." I don't know if that's the official term, but are there any LGD suppliers that have this sort of option.

It's not a deal breaker for me, just trying to get all the information I can on different suppliers and what options are out there.

Also, since I'm here. When I bought my EGD, I used someone to help me. I didn't have to pay him, I guess maybe he somehow got paid by who he got the diamond from? Not sure how it works, is this the same internationally as well since I am in Canada?
 
I don't know how to tag more than one of you, but I had a question regarding "buy back." I don't know if that's the official term, but are there any LGD suppliers that have this sort of option.

It's not a deal breaker for me, just trying to get all the information I can on different suppliers and what options are out there.

Also, since I'm here. When I bought my EGD, I used someone to help me. I didn't have to pay him, I guess maybe he somehow got paid by who he got the diamond from? Not sure how it works, is this the same internationally as well since I am in Canada?

**edit, I think I mean trade up.
 
**edit, I think I mean trade up.

Yes, I know for sure that Distinctive Gem (Private Reserve line) and James Allen have a trade-up policy for their LGDs.
And I think the type of service you are referencing would be called a “concierge service.” Jonathan at Distinctive Gem does that: https://www.distinctivegem.com/pages/rhinos-diamond-concierge
Others may have these policies as well, but these are the ones I’m familiar with.
 
In conjunction with the sellers mayaINaU mentioned... Some others that have LGD trade-in programs:






I'm sure there are quite a few others!
 
In conjunction with the sellers mayaINaU mentioned... Some others that have LGD trade-in programs:






I'm sure there are quite a few others!

Are there any that seem to be favoured by most?
 
Are there any that seem to be favoured by most?

DG, JA, TAoJ, FD, and Ada would likely be the first that I look at.

Diamonds by Lauren has their upgrade policy on their website, but no specific mention if it includes their LGDs. Would definitely reach out to David and crew there and get clarification.
 
Just weighing in as I adore my CVD Asscher but it's also a lower colour stone (L) so I can't say if an HPHT is better where higher colours are concerned. I have HPHT studs that are graded H and love them too.

I think your choice in which type of lab stone you choose will come down to availability of the cut you want. I had no qualms buying a CVD Asscher as the perfect step-cut is really hard to come by, lab or earth mined. You can be more choosy with MRBs as there's a lot of those around :) Put it this way, if you love the cut/colour/carat/price of a stone, then you shouldn't worry if it's a HPHT or CVD: both are physical diamonds and one won't wear or break easier than the other.

As for resale, I think regardless of lab or earth mined, don't go into a purchase thinking about its resale value. That's not what I think enjoying a diamond is about. Of course, it's pragmatic to consider resale if you have an upgrade policy to consider or if it may be necessary to sell off assets, 'just in case'. You're just not going to necessarily be able to sell an earth mined stone easier and for a higher percentage of original cost these days. I have an earth mined F I1 1ct marquise that I think will be harder to sell (for a reasonable price) compared to my lab Asscher.
 
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