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What do you think of this Spess?

All,

As I made very clear in my first post on this topic, my remarks have had little to do with any vendor's gemstone and a great deal to do with accurate grading methodology. How do you grade the from an image and the cut of a gemstone when viewing it 30-35 degrees off axis, those are the questions. If you can't deal with the argument, attack the person making it. The ad hominem response is an old logical fallacy extensively employed by Washington politicians and a number of members of this forum.

I understand now why the forum has lost so many good and thoughtful members over the past few years. Life is to short and it is a beautiful day in The Berkshires, so, why put up with name calling and personal attacks from people who hide behind the anonymity of a forum handle. Professionals keep silent because, for many, Pricescope has become an important source of income and anyone who dares to disagree is verbally bludgeoned by the members of a small clique who are doing their best to takeover and silence all descent. Lively disagreements are fine, but personal attacks are the real violations of the rules on this forum.

To those who have risked the slings and arrows and supported my position, I thank you. To those who have legitimate disagreements, I hope to continue the debate. To the hundreds of lurkers who read the forum, I hope my remarks have been useful and oh, by the way, I'll be back!

Best,
 
My last purchase was an alexandrite that was absolutely NOTHING at ALL like the video or the picture. Using every conceivable lighting combination I could not duplicate it. I have since bought NOTHING. And believe me that IS saying something. So I'm leery about giving opinions on gems without seeing them in person, or at least in the hands of a PS member who is photographing them at home in "real" life. Just my two or three cents. Have to agree about the attacks... they are getting a little crazy, and no one is learning anything from them.
 
Richard W. Wise said:
I understand now why the forum has lost so many good and thoughtful members over the past few years.
Click to expand...

Richard, I respectfully disagree with this. In my opinion, all forums lose and gain members, it's just the nature of the game, but I feel many are coming back because Pricescope is a unique and special forum. I want to especially thank the staff of Pricescope for doing such an awesome job at making this forum and website a unique, as well as a fun experience for me and so many others.

I will also say that I feel that Pricescope has some highly intelligent members, and they do offer a gret deal of information. I also think many more scientific minds are coming back here, and that's a good thing. I do post quite a bit, but that's because I love Pricescope, and I think many people can relate to that same feeling I have. People don't have to listen to what I say , and I've said that on many a occasion. Gems are just one of my interests. I am not a trade member, but I do love science, and gemology is part of that fascination I've had since I was very young.
 
Has Richard been commenting on the spessartite per se? Or, has he been commenting on what's being said about it?
 
Richard W. Wise said:
All,

As I made very clear in my first post on this topic, my remarks have had little to do with any vendor's gemstone and a great deal to do with accurate grading methodology. How do you grade the from an image and the cut of a gemstone when viewing it 30-35 degrees off axis, those are the questions. If you can't deal with the argument, attack the person making it. The ad hominem response is an old logical fallacy extensively employed by Washington politicians and a number of members of this forum.

I understand now why the forum has lost so many good and thoughtful members over the past few years. Life is to short and it is a beautiful day in The Berkshires, so, why put up with name calling and personal attacks from people who hide behind the anonymity of a forum handle. Professionals keep silent because, for many, Pricescope has become an important source of income and anyone who dares to disagree is verbally bludgeoned by the members of a small clique who are doing their best to takeover and silence all descent. Lively disagreements are fine, but personal attacks are the real violations of the rules on this forum.

To those who have risked the slings and arrows and supported my position, I thank you. To those who have legitimate disagreements, I hope to continue the debate. To the hundreds of lurkers who read the forum, I hope my remarks have been useful and oh, by the way, I'll be back!

Best,
Click to expand...

It would be wise for you to look at your posts to Kenny then. Then perhaps review this thread and look at how you tried to belittle Tan. To run away shouting "it's not fair and that's why nobody wants to be here and there's a clique .........." blah blah blah says more about the way you handle criticism than anything else.

"Experts" aren't always right. Who's to say that because you've worked in the industry for X years, you know more about colour, tone, saturation, hue than a collector of the same number of years? Just because they've chosen a different profession doesn't mean that they're "wrong" or any less able to see a colour than you. Please review this thread. Look how many people "see" brown in that stone. You say you don't and I'm sorry to say this but you're clearly in the minority. Does that mean everybody else is wrong and you're right? I doubt it.
 
Richard W. Wise said:
Portia,

There is an ongoing discussion on this forum about the reliability of images as a basis for judging the quality and value of a gemstone. As a vendor, usually I hold my tongue when it comes to specific questions about quality based on photos because images are inaccurate and misleading and because it unprofessional to comment on potential competitors. In this case I would like to comment as I see this as an opportunity to make a point.

I disagree with the members who say that the stone is windowed and brownish. The stone sits at a 35 degree angle in both the video and still image. Faceted stones are designed to be viewed perpendicular to the table. Many well cut stones, viewed at that angle would exhibit a false window, though if this one did, you would be able to see the white background (see through effect) in both images and I can't see that, can you?

Colorwise: The gem appears to have an orange primary hue with a strong yellow secondary. I SEE NO BROWN. The hue is about 50% tone. The face up mosaic (key color) of the gem is complex. Brown is a deep/dark orange. At this tone it is unlikely that it has a brown mask, at least I don't see one. Price: I also disagree with the statements on availability. Six carat stones of fine quality are difficult. The wholesale price per carat of six carat stone, given that I am correct in my analysis, is quite a bit more than the asking price for this gem, thus it is a good buy. It would be interesting if it could be obtained long enough to have it examined by a professional. Several sets of eyes coming up with conflicting analysis. Which is correct? As Gene said on the NSC post, given the difficulty of grading by image, the best guarantee is a good return policy.
Click to expand...

Harriet - I think you'll find that he did comment specifically on the stone.
 
Harriet said:
Has Richard been commenting on the spessartite per se? Or, has he been commenting on what's being said about it?
Click to expand...

Harriet - there were a number of comments that were removed by the moderators due to policy (where yes, RW was commenting directly about another vendor and their merchandise).
 
I'll defer to the moderators' better judgement. However, can we please remember that this thread is about Portia's search for a gem?
 
Richard W. Wise said:
All,

As I made very clear in my first post on this topic, my remarks have had little to do with any vendor's gemstone and a great deal to do with accurate grading methodology. How do you grade the from an image and the cut of a gemstone when viewing it 30-35 degrees off axis, those are the questions. If you can't deal with the argument, attack the person making it. The ad hominem response is an old logical fallacy extensively employed by Washington politicians and a number of members of this forum.

I understand now why the forum has lost so many good and thoughtful members over the past few years. Life is to short and it is a beautiful day in The Berkshires, so, why put up with name calling and personal attacks from people who hide behind the anonymity of a forum handle. Professionals keep silent because, for many, Pricescope has become an important source of income and anyone who dares to disagree is verbally bludgeoned by the members of a small clique who are doing their best to takeover and silence all descent. Lively disagreements are fine, but personal attacks are the real violations of the rules on this forum.

To those who have risked the slings and arrows and supported my position, I thank you. To those who have legitimate disagreements, I hope to continue the debate. To the hundreds of lurkers who read the forum, I hope my remarks have been useful and oh, by the way, I'll be back!

Best,
Click to expand...

Richard, this post considering the scheme of the last 48 hours or so really does not make much sense to me.
Yes, consumers offered up criticisms towards some of your business practices and parts of the discussion became heated- but if we read back over these threads, time and again I have seen only you taking it to the realm of attacks of a personal nature (ie. Kenny), or
generalizing about members and posters on PS in a negative light.
If I am wrong, please show me where you were personally called names?

Or perhaps you are talking about this in a wider, and not defensive sense - with that in mind, all I can do then is agree with you in your statement that such personal attacks are violations of forum rules and simply do nobody any good with regards to anything.
Regarding your comments about professionals disagreeing and being 'bludgeoned' for it - well, I would simply have to disagree with you there ;))
Without naming names of those who do it well, people have mentioned time and again it is about how the vendor or professional presents their argument / opinion to the group, which will determine how the conversation unfolds and how much merit it can purvey - is this so difficult to understand..? It is after all just how any conversation should and does play out *in real life*.

If you take issue with the way gems are assessed or colour is discussed, or anything else on PS, why not start a thread or multiple threads, and use your experience and knowledge to educate others on what you see the issues as being, how they can potentially be addressed, and so on..to start an actual discussion, instead of wading into threads and complaining that the posters are doing it all wrongly? :confused:

This Education and the sharing of information, knowledge and experience is the true spirit of PS and the intent of, I believe, the majority who hang around here for an extended period.

As far as your comment regarding posting on PS vs enjoying 'real life', I couldn't agree with you more - which is part of why every now and then I will take a break and not post or visit for a period of time. I come hear to learn about, discuss and mostly enjoy gems and jewellery - not to argue with some strangers on the other side of the world.




Portia, please accept my sincere apologies for being off topic.
 
Harriet said:
I'll defer to the moderators' better judgement. However, can we please remember that this thread is about Portia's search for a gem?
Click to expand...

:bigsmile: Chairs/meeting for a gem show? It's a bit rich to ask others to stay on topic! :bigsmile: ;))
 
I am politely requesting that a poster's search not be sullied by other people's agendums. I have no wish to be the class monitor.
 
Harriet said:
I am politely requesting that a poster's search not be sullied by other people's agendums. I have no wish to be the class monitor.
Click to expand...

Harriet you really ought to practice what you preach. May I politely request then that all the "why don't we meet at X, Y Z comments" are stopped? Unless of course you'd like to meet me when I'm in Denver next month for a conference? ;))
 
arjunajane said:
Richard W. Wise said:
All,

As I made very clear in my first post on this topic, my remarks have had little to do with any vendor's gemstone and a great deal to do with accurate grading methodology. How do you grade the from an image and the cut of a gemstone when viewing it 30-35 degrees off axis, those are the questions. If you can't deal with the argument, attack the person making it. The ad hominem response is an old logical fallacy extensively employed by Washington politicians and a number of members of this forum.

I understand now why the forum has lost so many good and thoughtful members over the past few years. Life is to short and it is a beautiful day in The Berkshires, so, why put up with name calling and personal attacks from people who hide behind the anonymity of a forum handle. Professionals keep silent because, for many, Pricescope has become an important source of income and anyone who dares to disagree is verbally bludgeoned by the members of a small clique who are doing their best to takeover and silence all descent. Lively disagreements are fine, but personal attacks are the real violations of the rules on this forum.

To those who have risked the slings and arrows and supported my position, I thank you. To those who have legitimate disagreements, I hope to continue the debate. To the hundreds of lurkers who read the forum, I hope my remarks have been useful and oh, by the way, I'll be back!

Best,
Click to expand...

Richard, this post considering the scheme of the last 48 hours or so really does not make much sense to me.
Yes, consumers offered up criticisms towards some of your business practices and parts of the discussion became heated- but if we read back over these threads, time and again I have seen only you taking it to the realm of attacks of a personal nature (ie. Kenny), or
generalizing about members and posters on PS in a negative light.
If I am wrong, please show me where you were personally called names?

Or perhaps you are talking about this in a wider, and not defensive sense - with that in mind, all I can do then is agree with you in your statement that such personal attacks are violations of forum rules and simply do nobody any good with regards to anything.
Regarding your comments about professionals disagreeing and being 'bludgeoned' for it - well, I would simply have to disagree with you there ;))
Without naming names of those who do it well, people have mentioned time and again it is about how the vendor or professional presents their argument / opinion to the group, which will determine how the conversation unfolds and how much merit it can purvey - is this so difficult to understand..? It is after all just how any conversation should and does play out *in real life*.

If you take issue with the way gems are assessed or colour is discussed, or anything else on PS, why not start a thread or multiple threads, and use your experience and knowledge to educate others on what you see the issues as being, how they can potentially be addressed, and so on..to start an actual discussion, instead of wading into threads and complaining that the posters are doing it all wrongly? :confused:

This Education and the sharing of information, knowledge and experience is the true spirit of PS and the intent of, I believe, the majority who hang around here for an extended period.

As far as your comment regarding posting on PS vs enjoying 'real life', I couldn't agree with you more - which is part of why every now and then I will take a break and not post or visit for a period of time. I come hear to learn about, discuss and mostly enjoy gems and jewellery - not to argue with some strangers on the other side of the world.




Portia, please accept my sincere apologies for being off topic.
Click to expand...


AJ - a superb post. Thank you. Like you (thankfully) I have a life outside gems!

Portia - can I reiterate that I'm sorry if your search for a lovely Spess has been somewhat sidetracked. If you're still interested, there have been some great suggestions on this thread of other gems for sale. Perhaps we could open a thread and post all of those links in there to save you wading through pages of nonsense!!! Say the word and I'll go through this one and do it for you. xxx
 
Replace "agendums" with "negativity" then. To that end, I will respond no further to you on this thread.
 
Harriet said:
I'll defer to the moderators' better judgement. However, can we please remember that this thread is about Portia's search for a gem?
Click to expand...

Thanks, Harriet! I kind of glossed over the heated areas of the discussion in the thread since it didn't really pertain to my search.

I will say it was interesting to read the discussion about color. I just don't have a good eye for it yet since I haven't seen many fine gems in person. I think I'm going to the advice given here and go seek them out so I can see for myself and learn more.
 
LovingDiamonds said:
AJ - a superb post. Thank you. Like you (thankfully) I have a life outside gems!

Portia - can I reiterate that I'm sorry if your search for a lovely Spess has been somewhat sidetracked. If you're still interested, there have been some great suggestions on this thread of other gems for sale. Perhaps we could open a thread and post all of those links in there to save you wading through pages of nonsense!!! Say the word and I'll go through this one and do it for you. xxx
Click to expand...

LD, No worries. That would be a lot of work creating a new post. I think I've gotten some great advice and as I continue looking I'm sure I be back to ask for more.
 
arjunajane said:
Portia, please accept my sincere apologies for being off topic.
Click to expand...

No apologies necessary, AJ. :))
 
Harriet said:
portia said:
Harriet said:
portia said:
Yes, I'm familiar with Fanta orange soda. I love that color so much I have a modern chair in my living room in that exact color. The chair is called the Pop - and it certainly is a pop of color! Love it!

Where would you go to see a fine fanta orange spessartite? Would any of the high-end stores have them or do you need to go to a dealer that has fine gems? I would just like to actually see one - not in photos.
Click to expand...

Portia,

Is the chair by any chance from Kartell?

I have seen fine examples at VCA in New York and at Graff in Bal Harbour.
Click to expand...

Hi Harriet,

The chair is actually from Ligne Roset.

I don't live in New York, but I do live near a VCA. Maybe I'll take a look over the weekend. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Hi Portia,
Ah. So that's why it sounded familiar! Are you happy with the Ligne Roset quality? I'm awaiting a shipment from them. (Sorry for the aside.)
Click to expand...

Ok, I know... off topic, but since it's my thread... LOL

Harriet,

I'm very happy with LR quality and love the design of their pieces. The Pop chair I have has been through a lot of abuse. One of our cats uses that chair as a springboard, crash pad, jungle gym and nap chair. LOL It definitely has a "patina", but it is in great shape considering the use. I had the Extensia dining room table which was great, but now have a different LR dining room table that seems a bit lesser quality and scratches more easily. However, I also have the Peter Maly bedroom set and that has stood the test of time - I purchased it about 9-10 yrs ago and it looks like new. I hope you enjoy your pieces! :))
 
Please keep the thread on track and devoid of personal attacks or it will be closed. Last warning.
 
pala has lovely gems and prices to match: they have developed their eye and they charge for it. please note they do not list their prices and one must go through a jeweler that is on their "approved" list and have the gem sent to said jeweler in order to view it.

MoZo
 
Africagems.com was mentioned earlier as well as Andrew Sarosi. I believe Andrew Sarosi is the father of Marc Sarosi, the owner of Africagems.com. On this page, and probably others, are some gorgeous examples of his spessartites in rings that Andrew designed. Some are sold, but it gives you an idea of the variety of color range within some nice colored spessartites.

These really pop if the photos are accurate.
http://www.africagems.com/reg-gemstone-rings-100.html

This particular one is exceptional if it's like the ones I saw in Andrew's booth. However, I can attest to the fact that the finest ones really look like the color in this photo. You may want to email Marc to see if his father can obtain an unset one if you tell him your budget, but it's probably good to see them in person first.
http://www.africagems.com/gemstone-ring-g-78-1-andrew.html

This one is a very good buy in my opinion, even though it's slightly yellowish and not as saturated as the one in the link above. It is still a very nice gem IMO, especially for the price!! ParaibaInternational.com is also a very reliable company. The clarity on this gem is exceptional for a 4+ carat stone. PI also takes offers.
http://www.paraibainternational.com/product_info.php?product=582
 
This is not a spessartite, but it is actually reminiscent of the color I've seen on some exceptional spessartite material. It is a fire opal and is part of the Grainger Hall of Gems at the Field Museum. If you do go there, check it out please. It's a very neon orange, and this was taken with a very poor camera.

grainger_fireopal2.JPG
 
tourmaline_lover said:
Africagems.com was mentioned earlier as well as Andrew Sarosi. I believe Andrew Sarosi is the father of Marc Sarosi, the owner of Africagems.com. On this page, and probably others, are some gorgeous examples of his spessartites in rings that Andrew designed. Some are sold, but it gives you an idea of the variety of color range within some nice colored spessartites.

These really pop if the photos are accurate.
http://www.africagems.com/reg-gemstone-rings-100.html

This particular one is exceptional if it's like the ones I saw in Andrew's booth. However, I can attest to the fact that the finest ones really look like the color in this photo. You may want to email Marc to see if his father can obtain an unset one if you tell him your budget, but it's probably good to see them in person first.
http://www.africagems.com/gemstone-ring-g-78-1-andrew.html

This one is a very good buy in my opinion, even though it's slightly yellowish and not as saturated as the one in the link above. It is still a very nice gem IMO, especially for the price!! ParaibaInternational.com is also a very reliable company. The clarity on this gem is exceptional for a 4+ carat stone. PI also takes offers.
http://www.paraibainternational.com/product_info.php?product=582
Click to expand...

I have worked with Africagems and Marc Sarosi is extremely professional and pleasant to work with. So far I bought two stones, and I am happy with both of them. I have not worked with Paraiba but had a conversation with them when I planned to buy a spessartine. The owner (I forgot his name, it was a while ago) was a very flexible and nice guy. I think he can find you a stone according to your requirements.
By the way - both of them have pretty decent return policy.
 
Crasru, the owner of ParaibaInternational.com is Adam Gill. I was once considerng a stone from Africagems.com and Marc was very honest about it, and patiently answered all my questions. I have heard from others that Adam is the same way.
 
Lisa Elser has a 4.4ct Spess in her catalog that appeared today that you might want to take a look at. There's around a 25% discount for PS members.
 
AN,
What is Lisa's website?
 
Wow... I just popped on here briefly and saw all the new info. Thanks everyone!! I can't look through it right now (busy with work), but will check back tomorrow and look at the links. Thank you so much!!
 
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