What's the best value in a 2 ct round stone?

[gobble]

Sure, why wouldn't anyone comment just because the reports say EGLUS and not GIA? Right or wrong I'd rather spend the premium I'd pay for GIA on something else. None of her friends are going to look at this stone under a microscope.

Did you see the prices I can buy these for?

 

[liaerfbv]

Sure, why wouldn't anyone comment just because the reports say EGLUS and not GIA? Right or wrong I'd rather spend the premium I'd pay for GIA on something else. None of her friends are going to look at this stone under a microscope.

Did you see the prices I can buy these for?

I think you're missing the point - the "premium" you pay for GIA is actually just an accurate grade. You're only getting a deal with EGL because the grades are soft, so really it's not a deal at all. At least with GIA you know what you're getting.

 

[WinkHPD]

Sure, why wouldn't anyone comment just because the reports say EGLUS and not GIA? Right or wrong I'd rather spend the premium I'd pay for GIA on something else. None of her friends are going to look at this stone under a microscope.

Did you see the prices I can buy these for?

You must be unable to understand the FACT THAT YOU ARE PAYING A HUGE PREMIUM FOR THOSE EGL STONES BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT WHAT YOU THINK THEY ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are NOT paying a premium for GIA you are actually getting what you pay for. You are clearly the right target for the dishonest dealers who use EGL to fool you.

You are absolutely correct, no one is going to grade her diamond while it is on your hand, but if you want a lower quality diamond, just buy it knowing what it is. I sell a lot of lower color and clarity diamonds because of their pricing, but I would never expect you to believe that it was a higher color or clarity than it really is.

It is your money, spend it how you like. Just don't expect us to enable you.

Wink

 

[Roqsteady]

To put it another way - that "premium" that you think you'd be paying for in a GIA is for 1,2, maybe even 3 grades higher on color and clarity. So you shouldn't be comparing an EGL G VS2 to a GIA G VS2 for price comparison. In reality it's more like an EGL G VS2 to a I/J SI2. So yes, if you were comparing a GIA G VS2 to a GIA J SI2 for the same 2 ct range, You'd be looking at a 5k+ disparity, easily.

Also, the crown/pavillion angles on some of those don't look good. Start with the HCA as an elimination tool to evaluate the cut of your diamond. You want to stick around a 34-35 crown angle with a 40.6-41 pavillion, and the closer you are to the center of that range, the better.

 

[gobble]

Sure, why wouldn't anyone comment just because the reports say EGLUS and not GIA? Right or wrong I'd rather spend the premium I'd pay for GIA on something else. None of her friends are going to look at this stone under a microscope.

Did you see the prices I can buy these for?

You must be unable to understand the FACT THAT YOU ARE PAYING A HUGE PREMIUM FOR THOSE EGL STONES BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT WHAT YOU THINK THEY ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are NOT paying a premium for GIA you are actually getting what you pay for. You are clearly the right target for the dishonest dealers who use EGL to fool you.

You are absolutely correct, no one is going to grade her diamond while it is on your hand, but if you want a lower quality diamond, just buy it knowing what it is. I sell a lot of lower color and clarity diamonds because of their pricing, but I would never expect you to believe that it was a higher color or clarity than it really is.

It is your money, spend it how you like. Just don't expect us to enable you.

Wink

But even if I grade them down a few notches aren't these still great prices? EGLUS is saying 2.0 ct, ideal plus, D, VS2 with the nice hearts and arrows pattern. I can buy that stone for $24,400. Putting down the GIA bias and the fact that people on here view me as knowing very little about diamonds, isn't that a pretty good deal and I'd pay a bunch more going through a retail dealer or web store?

I'm not trying to question anyone's expert opinion, just looking for the best deal. I don't see diamonds as a great investment and want to get by with something nice for a good price.

 

[gobble]

To put it another way - that "premium" that you think you'd be paying for in a GIA is for 1,2, maybe even 3 grades higher on color and clarity. So you shouldn't be comparing an EGL G VS2 to a GIA G VS2 for price comparison. In reality it's more like an EGL G VS2 to a I/J SI2. So yes, if you were comparing a GIA G VS2 to a GIA J SI2 for the same 2 ct range, You'd be looking at a 5k+ disparity, easily.

Also, the crown/pavillion angles on some of those don't look good. Start with the HCA as an elimination tool to evaluate the cut of your diamond. You want to stick around a 34-35 crown angle with a 40.6-41 pavillion, and the closer you are to the center of that range, the better.

You're right some of these stones don't do very well on the HCA score.

 

[WinkHPD]

Sure, why wouldn't anyone comment just because the reports say EGLUS and not GIA? Right or wrong I'd rather spend the premium I'd pay for GIA on something else. None of her friends are going to look at this stone under a microscope.

Did you see the prices I can buy these for?

You must be unable to understand the FACT THAT YOU ARE PAYING A HUGE PREMIUM FOR THOSE EGL STONES BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT WHAT YOU THINK THEY ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are NOT paying a premium for GIA you are actually getting what you pay for. You are clearly the right target for the dishonest dealers who use EGL to fool you.

You are absolutely correct, no one is going to grade her diamond while it is on your hand, but if you want a lower quality diamond, just buy it knowing what it is. I sell a lot of lower color and clarity diamonds because of their pricing, but I would never expect you to believe that it was a higher color or clarity than it really is.

It is your money, spend it how you like. Just don't expect us to enable you.

Wink

But even if I grade them down a few notches aren't these still great prices? EGLUS is saying 2.0 ct, ideal plus, D, VS2 with the nice hearts and arrows pattern. I can buy that stone for $24,400. Putting down the GIA bias and the fact that people on here view me as knowing very little about diamonds, isn't that a pretty good deal and I'd pay a bunch more going through a retail dealer or web store?

I'm not trying to question anyone's expert opinion, just looking for the best deal. I don't see diamonds as a great investment and want to get by with something nice for a good price.

It is impossible for me to guess whether or not they are good deals since I have no way of knowing what they really are until I personalluy grade them.

In addition to just price, what kind of trade up or buy back policy do they come with. If you have a sick child or your wife gets seriously ill, you may take ten to twenty cents on the dollar selling your diamond. You might be one whale of a lot better off buying from someone who will treat you fairly on the buy back or trade up if life is going well.

You are going to buy a pig in a poke because you think it is a great pig. Who knows, it might be, but...

Wink

 

[Boatluvr]

You get what you pay for, period.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/?CaratFrom=2.00&CaratTo=2.27&Color=H&Clarity=SI1&PriceFrom=400&PriceTo=999000&Sort=Carat%20asc,%20DefaultOrder&TabSelected=3&DiamondID=228145,261292,239199

 

[kellc]

If you assume going with EGL, each stone is several grades below what it says on the certificate, you can see that it's not really a good deal at all to spend around 14k. For instance, here's a site where I searched for round stones that are all GIA certified (so, the stats on the certificate are accurate), and you'll see many 2ct stones from 11k and up. If you want to spend around 14k, go for it! That's still a good budget. But why not spend 14k and know what you're getting, plus have the benefit of a buy-back / trade-up policy?

http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/index.php

 

[momma2boys]

Sure, why wouldn't anyone comment just because the reports say EGLUS and not GIA? Right or wrong I'd rather spend the premium I'd pay for GIA on something else. None of her friends are going to look at this stone under a microscope.

Did you see the prices I can buy these for?

You must be unable to understand the FACT THAT YOU ARE PAYING A HUGE PREMIUM FOR THOSE EGL STONES BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT WHAT YOU THINK THEY ARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are NOT paying a premium for GIA you are actually getting what you pay for. You are clearly the right target for the dishonest dealers who use EGL to fool you.

You are absolutely correct, no one is going to grade her diamond while it is on your hand, but if you want a lower quality diamond, just buy it knowing what it is. I sell a lot of lower color and clarity diamonds because of their pricing, but I would never expect you to believe that it was a higher color or clarity than it really is.

It is your money, spend it how you like. Just don't expect us to enable you.

Wink

But even if I grade them down a few notches aren't these still great prices? EGLUS is saying 2.0 ct, ideal plus, D, VS2 with the nice hearts and arrows pattern. I can buy that stone for $24,400. Putting down the GIA bias and the fact that people on here view me as knowing very little about diamonds, isn't that a pretty good deal and I'd pay a bunch more going through a retail dealer or web store?

I'm not trying to question anyone's expert opinion, just looking for the best deal. I don't see diamonds as a great investment and want to get by with something nice for a good price.

Numbers and grades only tell you a small percentage of the story. You need to look at these stones or at least get images that tell you light performance and basically how the stone performs overall. Everyone is trying to tell you that good deals in the diamond business typically don't happen bc what you think is a deal truly isn't if you examined things fully, and you really know nothing until you find out more about the diamonds than just the grade, price, etc

 

[gobble]

Maybe these prices aren't that spectacular when compared with other online sellers of EGL US diamonds....

 

[Gypsy]

You just aren't getting it.

EGL is ON AVERAGE a few grades off.

Do you know how to average? You take the high and the low. And then you get an average.

What does that mean? That means that in order to get an AVERAGE of 2 grades off you have stones that are graded correctly and stones that are 4 or 5 grades off.

So that D? It could easily be a G. Or it could be a D. Or it could be an H. NO WAY TO TELL.

How is that getting what you paid for?

At the least you need a VERY GOOD appraiser to tell you what the GIA color is on THAT EXACT STONE. https://www.pricescope.com/appraisers

You want to waste your money... go ahead.

But I don't know why you are still wasting our time when you just don't seem to want to take any of the advise you are being offered.

 

[TC1987]

Sure, why wouldn't anyone comment just because the reports say EGLUS and not GIA? Right or wrong I'd rather spend the premium I'd pay for GIA on something else. None of her friends are going to look at this stone under a microscope.

Did you see the prices I can buy these for?

DID YOU READ ANY OF THE COMMENTS THAT PEOPLE HAVE WRITTEN FOR 3 PAGES? Pricing follows whatever the true GIA grade would be, Wink and others have told you.

I myself already said, on Page 1, that cutters and owners shop for the best-sounding report. If a stone has the type of cut that meets AGS 000, then that's probably where it's going to be sent for grading. If it has something about it that won't make ags's top grade, but will make the GIA excellent, then probably it would go to GIA. But if the cutters / owners know that it won't get an Excellent grade from either of those 2 labs, or it's an older cut that's out of fashion, or it's got a big table, or some wonky old symmetry, etc., and EGL won't be so hard on it... well, then it goes to EGL.

You have the papers and you can run HCA yourself. Another thing to consider is that as you hit the 2ct mark, the cutters start trying to retain weight, not wring out the highest performance, and it gets more difficult and more expensive to find an ideal-cut (by Pricescope standards) RB.

Also take a look at this:
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/laboratory_cut_grades_what_report_doesn%E2%80%99t_show

Yes, it's possible to get a nice-looking diamond that is round but it's not a modern hearts and arrows and it's outside this PS "cheat sheet:"

depth - 60 - 62%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - thin to slightly thick, thin to medium, etc (avoid very thin or thick)
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!

Also, configurations depend on each other. A little give here can still work with a little take there.

With that said, here''s a "Cliff''s Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.

I have diamonds like that. they are not modern "ideal" stones. They all have their own odd quirk or two. Some have big tables and lots of brilliance but not much fire. One always looks dark close-up because it's only 58% deep and it what is generally called "a pendant stone" but it's set in a ring. Pendant stone = shallower stone that is best seen at arm's length than closeup due to head obstruction (search that term here.) Some perform better in one type of lighting, or better in bright sunlight, etc. As long as you and she like the stone, AND you don't pay too much for it, there's nothing wrong with that. But I also have 3 h&a modern diamonds of varying sizes and those are the rings that always have people grabbing my hand to get a closer look. Cut is king.

Hey, and as diamond get larger, the size of inclusion allowed to be called Vs1 or Si1 or Si2 gets larger. Those lower priced diamonds may not be eye-clean enough to suit you or her.

 

[gobble]

Sure, why wouldn't anyone comment just because the reports say EGLUS and not GIA? Right or wrong I'd rather spend the premium I'd pay for GIA on something else. None of her friends are going to look at this stone under a microscope.

Did you see the prices I can buy these for?

DID YOU READ ANY OF THE COMMENTS THAT PEOPLE HAVE WRITTEN FOR 3 PAGES? I myself already said, on Page 1, that cutters and owners shop for the best-sounding report. If a stone has the type of cut that meets AGS 00, then that's probably where it's going to be sent for grading. If it has something about it that won't make that grade, but will make the GIA excellent, then probably it will go to GIA. But if the cutters / owners know that it won't get an Excellent grade from either of those 2 labs, or it's an older cut that's out of fashion, or it's got a big table. etc., and EGL won't go so hard on it... well, then it goes to EGL.

You have the papers and you can run HCA yourself. Another thing to consider is that as you hit the 2ct mark, the cutters start trying to retain weight, not wring out the highest performance, and it gets more difficult and more expensive to find an ideal-cut (by Pricescope standards) RB.

Also take a look at this:
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/laboratory_cut_grades_what_report_doesn%E2%80%99t_show

Yes, it's possible to get a nice-looking diamond that is round but it's not a modern hearts and arrows and it's outside this PS "cheat sheet:"

depth - 60 - 62%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - thin to slightly thick, thin to medium, etc (avoid very thin or thick)
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!

Also, configurations depend on each other. A little give here can still work with a little take there.

With that said, here''s a "Cliff''s Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.

Thanks this was helpful. I'm always looking for a deal and there may be none to be found.

 

[Mayk]

Please buy and EGL. You are making all the people on here who wanted to help you bang their heads against their computers . How many ways can you be told? EGL is a ripoff, the grades are soft you are only thinking you are getting a deal. So if it makes you happy...Please waste your money then comeback and complain when the diamond doesn't perform like you would hope and we can ALL say... "Told you so".....

 

[gobble]

I hope you can understand that my thinking on diamonds is good enough is good enough. If I can get by with something other than GIA for a lesser price I will. If I can't I won't. I'm learning, the comments are helpul, but some unnecessary.

I'm not going to spend $25,000 on a diamond. That's insanity.

If the paper says she has something nice she'll think she has something nice. I've seen a GIA I next to an EGL H and I couldn't tell the difference. Some probably would cringe at the EGL H, I don't know. Right or wrong I'd rather spend the extra money on tires for my Lamborghini or heat for my house. I don't want to buy crap though which is why I haven't pulled the trigger on anything.

 

[Gypsy]

Jeez.

THAT EGL H might have been an H. Or an I. Who knows.

That doesn't mean that all EGL H's will.

That's the point. THEY ARE NOT RELIABLE.

Why can't you understand this?

Please stop posting you are wasting EVERYONE's SIZE.

Get your lady whatever you think is "good enough" to make her happy. We don't care anymore.

 

[gobble]

Yes, I get that.

But you're basically saying I'm an idiot if I don't spend $25,000 on a diamond. I'd respond that I'm an idiot if I do spend $25,000 on a diamond. Some would say a martini made with Grey Goose is far superior to one made with Absolut. Others would say save your money, pour the Absolut, and you won't taste a difference. I'm getting the point that might not be true with diamonds but I wouldn't learn if I didn't ask the question. It's not like I'm suggesting I buy something from a mall jeweler....

My guy is getting me some GIA certs so I'll see what's in there and make a decision, hopefully.

 

[UberClaire]

"Good enough is good enough....If the paper says she has something nice she'll think she has something nice....I'd rather spend the extra money on tires for my Lamborghini." That's what every woman wants to hear before getting engaged.

 

[gobble]

"Good enough is good enough....If the paper says she has something nice she'll think she has something nice....I'd rather spend the extra money on tires for my Lamborghini." That's what every woman wants to hear before getting engaged.

That's the way we think. And she drives the car as much as I do so that benefits her as much as me.

 

[gobble]

Some are more materialistic than others and she'll be happy with whatever. I'd like something nice though that doesn't break the bank.

I'm talking about spend $20,000! on a tiny piece of glass and people are giving me a hard time. Crazy.

 

[Gypsy]

Yes, I get that.

But you're basically saying I'm an idiot if I don't spend $25,000 on a diamond. I'd respond that I'm an idiot if I do spend $25,000 on a diamond. Some would say a martini made with Grey Goose is far superior to one made with Absolut. Others would say save your money, pour the Absolut, and you won't taste a difference. I'm getting the point that might not be true with diamonds but I wouldn't learn if I didn't ask the question. It's not like I'm suggesting I buy something from a mall jeweler....

My guy is getting me some GIA certs so I'll see what's in there and make a decision, hopefully.

No. That's not what I am saying.

what I am saying is... we've spent 3 pages giving you advice. NO ONE advocated you spending money you don't want to. But after ALL THIS TIME you still don't get what we are trying to say which is:

Buy the nicest diamond you can with WHATEVER budget you want. But don't expect to get a 2 carat for less than market value. Because that's unreasonable.

If you want to spend 10k. GREAT. We don't care. We help people who want to spend 2k. And we help people who want to spend 100k. What we DO care about is that you want to get something that 10K will NOT BUY YOU, in any type of good quality.

So what we are saying is something has to give. If your budget is firm. GREAT. Tell us what that is and we'll find a nice stone for it. BUT IT WILL NOT BE A TWO CARAT D-G VS stone. It might be a 1.5 carat. But it will be BEAUTIFUL.

But you need to understand what your budget REALISTICALLY buys. And buy THAT.

And that's it. It might be a 2 carat J color. Or a 1.8 carat I color.

DOESN'T MATTER to us. But you have to be REASONABLE about what your budget buys.

Not throw a tantrum and accuse us of being unreasonable because your budget doesn't buy you want you think it should. The diamond market doesn't adjust to make you happy. You need to adjust your expectations for what your budget can afford and buy THAT.

 

[UberClaire]

People aren't giving you a hard time, they're telling you how to get the most value for your money. You came to a forum full of diamond experts and then dismissed everything they had to say.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Sure, why wouldn't anyone comment just because the reports say EGLUS and not GIA? Right or wrong I'd rather spend the premium I'd pay for GIA on something else. None of her friends are going to look at this stone under a microscope.

Did you see the prices I can buy these for?

They are cheap for good reasons... You can't buy filet mignon for hamburger price...

 

[gobble]

This seems nice for the price? Or does the flourescence kill it?

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.03-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-sku-288834

 

[Gypsy]

This seems nice for the price? Or is color too low?

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.03-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-sku-288834

Color is fine. Not going to be eyeclean.

Not well cut.

Use HCA: https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca 2 and under pass. 2.5 and under maybe. 2.6 and over fail.

Get an idealscope on any stone that passes or is a maybe (JA can provide one).

If you are finally ready to be reasonable post your REAL budget (not this 20k number you keep SAYING, but we both know you don't want to spend) and let's see what we can find you.

 

[WinkHPD]

I hope you can understand that my thinking on diamonds is good enough is good enough. If I can get by with something other than GIA for a lesser price I will. If I can't I won't. I'm learning, the comments are helpul, but some unnecessary.

I'm not going to spend $25,000 on a diamond. That's insanity.

If the paper says she has something nice she'll think she has something nice. I've seen a GIA I next to an EGL H and I couldn't tell the difference. Some probably would cringe at the EGL H, I don't know. Right or wrong I'd rather spend the extra money on tires for my Lamborghini or heat for my house. I don't want to buy crap though which is why I haven't pulled the trigger on anything.

LOL, It's okay to knowingly lie to her, so long as she thinks it is nice?

Have a nice life.

Wink

 

[gobble]

I hope you can understand that my thinking on diamonds is good enough is good enough. If I can get by with something other than GIA for a lesser price I will. If I can't I won't. I'm learning, the comments are helpul, but some unnecessary.

I'm not going to spend $25,000 on a diamond. That's insanity.

If the paper says she has something nice she'll think she has something nice. I've seen a GIA I next to an EGL H and I couldn't tell the difference. Some probably would cringe at the EGL H, I don't know. Right or wrong I'd rather spend the extra money on tires for my Lamborghini or heat for my house. I don't want to buy crap though which is why I haven't pulled the trigger on anything.

LOL, It's okay to knowingly lie to her, so long as she thinks it is nice?

Have a nice life.

Wink

How is having a certification from a lab that's been in business for over 30 years lying to her? Buying an EGL graded diamond is lying to her? It's not like I'm forging a certificate of my own. Geez.

This little stone on her finger is sooooo insignificant compared to everything else we have together. A $15k stone on her finger will make her very happy and won't look a bit different that a $25k stone unless some insane diamond lady is judging her by her ring. I know there are people like that out there but she's not one of them.

 

[Gypsy]

I am going to assume that 18.5k is going to be okay.

Here are your choices. Put them on hold and ask if they are eyeclean. Ask for an idealscope image of the ones that are. Post them, and we'll tell you which to pick.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.01-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-267577 Personal favorite.
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.01-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-231836 If eyeclean
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.01-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-267578 If eyeclean

 

[gobble]

This seems nice for the price? Or is color too low?

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.03-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-sku-288834

Color is fine. Not going to be eyeclean.

Not well cut.

Use HCA: https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca 2 and under pass. 2.5 and under maybe. 2.6 and over fail.

Get an idealscope on any stone that passes or is a maybe (JA can provide one).

If you are finally ready to be reasonable post your REAL budget (not this 20k number you keep SAYING, but we both know you don't want to spend) and let's see what we can find you.

I just ran the HCA calculator and it came out to 1.6. Did I do it wrong?

I'd say my upper limit is $20k but of course I don't want to spend that much if I can get away with less. That being said I'd spend $30 if I knew I was getting a killer deal (although they don't seem to exist).