When enough is enough - mental illness

[VirginiaZee]

My heart goes out to you. I know in the States sometimes families can find support through Al-Anon programs, I just wanted to mention it as another possible support network.

 

[kmarla]

Housecat, I just reviewed my comment to you and I'm blushing with embarrassment. I realize something I said could be misinterpreted. I sincerely hope you didn't think I was insinuating in any way that your step-son was "a creep." That is the nickname we use for the guy my daughter was involved with at the time and it just came out naturally when I was typing. We can't even stand to say his real name. Unlike your stepson, this guy was a predator, not a young love match.

Virginiazee, yes, I'd heard before that Al-Anon might be helpful. One of my friends goes to groups and I asked her about it some time ago. She has been to a few different chapters and from her experience she didn't think it was the right fit for us. She also has an adult child with challenges. I should go to a meeting myself and form my own impression. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Thank you again Tacori e-ring. I have been in touch already with CMHA as they are the conduit for the f2 program here. I'm waiting for the coordinator of the course to contact me, and it looks like there is one starting in April. Hopefully there will be space available for us. I'm also waiting for the CMHA facilities coordinator to call me back and see what other help is available. That could take up to 5 days. Good news, I found out that there is an f2 support group in our neighbourhood, and I'm going to e-mail the coordinator shortly. I've realized now that because of the dual diagnosis, we've always been funnelled through the autism branch, never the mental health branch. That's changing right now!

Azstonie, thank you for the link!

That is GREAT news! I know someone suggested Al-Anon. It is a great program but not sure it will be helpful in your situation since many of the techniques such a detachment does not work well when dealing with mental illness. However, I agree that only you can make that decision!

NAMI also has great resources online.

 

[AGBF]

I just wanted to say, in this thread, that I have been through this trouble with a child. I have written about it on Pricescope before and do not feel the need to go over everything again. Many of you have heard my story before. However, I am always open to being a resource to others. I have never hidden my situation. My heart goes out to all the rest of you who have suffered the trials of trying to raise children with emotional difficulties.

Hugs to all,
Deb

 

[Queenie60]

I just wanted to say, in this thread, that I have been through this trouble with a child. I have written about it on Pricescope before and do not feel the need to go over everything again. Many of you have heard my story before. However, I am always open to being a resource to others. I have never hidden my situation. My heart goes out to all the rest of you who have suffered the trials of trying to raise children with emotional difficulties.

Hugs to all,
Deb

Thank you Deb and hugs to you too

 

[D2B]

I don't have any personal experience at the level you are all talking about - but the glimpses I have had have made me profoundly aware that it can happen so easily to anyone of us at anytime.

I think that what we can all do is lobby our governments and medical providers for increased support and funding in this area - there needs to be more support and intervention for families and those affected. It is not going away - we need to talk about it so that the burden and trauma are made open and help is provided.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your loved ones.

d2b

 

[AGBF]

Thank you Deb and hugs to you too

Thanks, Queenie. When I read your story I thought of my best friend.

My adopted daughter, who had a totally normal childhood, started to develop some symptoms of depression at around age 12 and, ultimately, turned out to be bi-polar and and a complete, raging lunatic.

But my best friend's biological son developed bi-polar illness as a young child. Like your son, he inherited his illness from her family-in which many members (including her father and several of his siblings) were bi-polar.

Her son is three years older than my daughter and became ill as a child, so we always knew that he was bi-polar. The shock of finding out that my daughter was as well was beyond belief. What were the odds that best friends would have one adopted child and one biological and have both end up so ill and so similar? And they are similar, although on the surface they couldn't be more dissimilar. He trained as a photographer after high school and is very gifted, but no longer does photography. He is extremely overweight with a lot of red hair and, being over six feet tall with a beard, looks like a Viking. He also hoards and has taken on huge business deals with grandiose amounts of money and pawning things. He bought a yacht with some partners and it sank in slip somewhere off Manhattan.

I have told my daughter's story here before. But she tends to the anorectic and suicidal and is full of OCD symptoms and cuts up clothing. Yet my best friend and I are sure that we have the same child. You may have him, too.

(((Queenie)))
Deb

 

[AdaBeta27]

...

We are not going to save her any more. An hour ago I checked the bank account and it has been cleaned out. She found a loophole around the restriction in place for withdrawals. I just got off the phone with the bank. She clearly had help doing this as it's not something she would know on her own. I think I mentioned that she has intellectual challenges as well (developmental challenges). One of my friends just told me that my daughter posted on Instagram that she's getting a new tattoo. She has several tattoos and piercings already, most of them souvenirs from other crises.

...

Okay, I'm hoping and trying to not be the prophet of doom here. But at this point, you need to also be vigilant about your own safety. I don't think that it's safe to assume that these people are benign. Your daughter could be very gullible, or could be turned against you, and there are certainly gangs, cults, and ISIS recruiters out there. Whomever she is running with, or she herself, especially if they get her into drug addiction, could try to rob you or worse. My brother and SIL have an estranged adopted son who is a sociopath who tried to kill my SIL and then turned drifter and criminal. They live in fear that he'll try to attack them and/or steal from them.
Good luck, sincerely. It's not fun to live with people who endanger themselves or you.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Deb,

You have all my support and prayers. Please let me know if I can ever help. (((hugs)))

 

[AGBF]

You have all my support and prayers. Please let me know if I can ever help. (((hugs)))

Thank you, Tacori. You have always been a sweetheart. Even when you were knee high to a grasshopper and were not yet a psychotherapist . You just have a therapeutic personality and that's a gift that no amount of training can give someone.

Hugs,
(((Tacori)))
Deb

 

[kmarla]

AGBF, thank you for sharing your story, and for your generosity in offering to be a resource. One of life's great lessons is that love can't fix everything. You can try to do all the right things, be loving, responsible, productive, and still not end up with the outcome you hoped for, for your child or yourself. I am sorry that you too are experiencing life wth a child with mental illness.

D2b, thank you for your words of support. Yes, people do need to lobby for more help. Here where we live, it's typically a lack of funding issue and wait lists that stretch into many years, when the need is immediate and urgent. One of the sad realities is that people immersed in the crisis are the ones who often have to somehow find time to become political as well. We went through this when our daughter was very young and diagnosed with autism. The wheels turn very slowly. By the time effective changes came into place, she had aged out and didn't quality for the new services. Other children benefitted though, so our time and energy was rewarded.

AdaBeta27, thank you for highlighting our very real concerns, and thank you for your support. In our case, our daughter is definitely a follower. We have taken what precautions we can. We did get the house key back, I did initially transfer most of her money out of her account in order to protect her from criminal activity. New deposits from her work, disability etc have since been made, and I can't legally withhold that from her. I did make a police report and give them all the information I had about who she's staying with. You can't control everything though. She has free will, and as we have been told by police and lawyers, people can legally make poor choices (not criminal choices) and you can't always protect them. One thing that our daughter has always been very adamant about is that she is completely against alcohol and illegal drugs. So far, neither of these has ever been an issue in her life. We can only hope that it continues. We have alcohol in the house, mostly for entertaining, and she has never touched it.

Our daughter did finally contact her dad by text, and she is still using her old phone. She says she had a happy day. Communication is short and sweet, but gives us huge relief. I've never been a big texter so this is just our family dynamic that her and her dad text, nothing personal against me.

Tacori e-ring, yes it is great news! I haven't heard back yet but will follow up again if I don't hear anything Monday.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

You have all my support and prayers. Please let me know if I can ever help. (((hugs)))

Thank you, Tacori. You have always been a sweetheart. Even when you were knee high to a grasshopper and were not yet a psychotherapist . You just have a therapeutic personality and that's a gift that no amount of training can give someone.

Hugs,
(((Tacori)))
Deb

Thanks Deb. You are one of the kindest people to have graced this site.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Our daughter did finally contact her dad by text, and she is still using her old phone. She says she had a happy day. Communication is short and sweet, but gives us huge relief. I've never been a big texter so this is just our family dynamic that her and her dad text, nothing personal against me.

Tacori e-ring, yes it is great news! I haven't heard back yet but will follow up again if I don't hear anything Monday.

I am so glad you heard from her.

 

[kmarla]

Just a quick little update to say that we are now confirmed on the f2 (family to family) April course!

 

[Queenie60]

Just a quick little update to say that we are now confirmed on the f2 (family to family) April course!

Great news! This will provide you wish so much helpful information. In the mean time - I hope you can keep her safe.

Sending good thoughts your way.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Just a quick little update to say that we are now confirmed on the f2 (family to family) April course!

That is great news!!! I know how helpful it has been for parents especially. I hope you get the support and education you need so that you can all be safe and healthy!

 

[missy]

Kmarla, I just wanted to let you know I am so sorry for all you are dealing with and sending you lots of good thoughts and wishes and hugs.

 

[kmarla]

Queenie60, Tacori e-ring and missy, thank you so much for your support and kindness

 

[House Cat]

Housecat, I just reviewed my comment to you and I'm blushing with embarrassment. I realize something I said could be misinterpreted. I sincerely hope you didn't think I was insinuating in any way that your step-son was "a creep." That is the nickname we use for the guy my daughter was involved with at the time and it just came out naturally when I was typing. We can't even stand to say his real name. Unlike your stepson, this guy was a predator, not a young love match.

Virginiazee, yes, I'd heard before that Al-Anon might be helpful. One of my friends goes to groups and I asked her about it some time ago. She has been to a few different chapters and from her experience she didn't think it was the right fit for us. She also has an adult child with challenges. I should go to a meeting myself and form my own impression. Thanks for the suggestion.

Oh no!! I didn't take it that way at all!

I am glad that you have heard from your daughter.


How are YOU?

 

[kmarla]

Housecat, I'm glad we heard from her too. I'm doing okay, and starting to think about a different future than we planned before, in a good way! I think it's going to take a while to get over this latest crisis because it's such a game changer. I'm trying to stick to our routine as much as possible but noticing it's taking longer to get things done i.e., Christmas decorations still not all put away etc. I guess I've been very distracted. There is a meeting for an f2 support group in my neighbourhood next week and I plan on going. My husband has inquired about counselling through his workplace and we're waiting to hear back. I decided that by the end of the month, if she hasn't come to collect her stuff, I'm going to organize and pack up it up. We'll store everything in the basement, but I don't need to see it everywhere. She didn't even take any of her Christmas presents with her. She can then come and get it when she wants. I think this will help reinforce our decision that she's not coming home again to live. I'm also going to fix/repair her bathroom. The ceramic floor needs to be replaced etc. You know, take back my house! These are things that need to be done anyway, but I think they'll help us. I'm feeling all the things you probably felt, sadness, anger, betrayal, worry, hope, relief,empowerment etc. A mixed bag of emotions!

 

[Queenie60]

Need to vent - just had a terrible night with our son. He is extremely mad at Bob and I and had an outrage this evening. He was so angry that I though he was going to harm us. Well, he left and we aren't sure when he will return (personally I hope that he does not return) - We are now headed to our room, escape plan in motion, in the event we need to escape and emergency phone near the bed with gate keys, etc so that we can leave our property if the need be. Don't know how much more of this I can take - I am so upset that I don't know if I can sleep tonight. Am prepared to call 911 if the need be - hope we can find a good solution to this very complicated situation. Hope to move him out real soon before something happens that he will regret. Mental Illness - - - - - - - - HELL

 

[AGBF]

Need to vent - just had a terrible night with our son. He is extremely mad at Bob and I and had an outrage this evening. He was so angry that I though he was going to harm us. Well, he left and we aren't sure when he will return (personally I hope that he does not return) - We are now headed to our room, escape plan in motion, in the event we need to escape and emergency phone near the bed with gate keys, etc so that we can leave our property if the need be. Don't know how much more of this I can take - I am so upset that I don't know if I can sleep tonight. Am prepared to call 911 if the need be - hope we can find a good solution to this very complicated situation. Hope to move him out real soon before something happens that he will regret. Mental Illness - - - - - - - - HELL

I am so very sorry, Queenie. Have you ever called 911 before? I remember when calling 911 because my daughter was out of control seemed taboo to me. I had had to call it when she attempted suicide, of course. But then once I decided to do it whenever she became violent, we both began to know that I would do it. I realize that to people who do not have mentally ill children that this will read as bizarre. Who wouldn't call the police if someone was violent? Am I crazy myself? But when you have been trying so hard to work with someone who is waaaaay out in left field, you have your eye on some goals that other members of society would not.
You lose your focus.

At any rate, in my case when I began to call the police every time my daughter threatened my belongings or threatened me, the violence died way down. But her brain also matured and she also had the experience of confronting the legal system, which took quite a toll on me. I mean, I called the police, but then I had to be in court with her and take her to the psychiatrist and to programs mandated by the court and back and forth to court dates for years and years. And this happened for each offense.

Good luck, my friend!!!

Hugs,
Deb

Edited to add: just for a little levity, let me add one anecdote. My daughter was arrested for one incident that she used against me in the court of public opinion among her friends, who supposedly said that their mother would never have called the police over such an incident. But I thought that she was well served to have the matter put into the local newspaper. We had been at the local shopping center because we were going to the home of her current boyfriend's grandmother and I wanted to bring some pastries with us. We went to the bakery and bought a box of pastries, then went to the Jeep. She wanted lip gloss from the CVS and I said I wouldn't buy it, so she began to threaten me. I had me cell phone in my hand. She had recently assaulted me inside my Jeep and then followed me outside the Jeep, punching me in the head numerous times. So we had a history. I warned her I would call the police. She went into the Jeep and smashed the pastries. I called the police. She was arrested with custard all over her hands. The newspaper put in the police blotter that she had been arrested for smashing pastries. But I had to clean up my Jeep. And I still had to bail her out of jail and deal with all the new court dates and so forth.

 

[kmarla]

Queenie60, I am so terribly sorry. I hope that the night passed safely for all of you. I'm keeping you and your family in my thoughts (((((hugs)))))

AGBF, I totally hear you. It's not just the actual event you deal with. It's all the fallout afterward. Giving consequences and following through creates a lot of extra work for us parents, but it's the right thing to do, both for the short term and long term for our children. It's exhausting though!

 

[House Cat]

Need to vent - just had a terrible night with our son. He is extremely mad at Bob and I and had an outrage this evening. He was so angry that I though he was going to harm us. Well, he left and we aren't sure when he will return (personally I hope that he does not return) - We are now headed to our room, escape plan in motion, in the event we need to escape and emergency phone near the bed with gate keys, etc so that we can leave our property if the need be. Don't know how much more of this I can take - I am so upset that I don't know if I can sleep tonight. Am prepared to call 911 if the need be - hope we can find a good solution to this very complicated situation. Hope to move him out real soon before something happens that he will regret. Mental Illness - - - - - - - - HELL

What you can do now is call your local NAMI office and see if there is a Crisis Intervention Team in your area. I recommend this over 911 because sometimes, the police aren't as understanding toward mental illness, where the CIT knows what they are doing. However, if 911 is your only option, do not hesitate to call it and say, "My son is mentally ill and is having and episode. We are currently afraid for our safety. We believe he will harm himself or others."

Then, hopefully they will bring an ambulance and hospitalize him. In the hospital, hopefully they will medicate him while on the 51-50 hold. If he still seems like he is a danger to self or others past the 72 hour hold, they can keep him longer.

Queenie, I am sorry. Take care of yourself.

 

[Queenie60]

Thank you all for your kind words. Yes, we made it through the night. I have called 911 in the past and the police in my local area are well trained to deal with mental illness. They tend to ask the standard questions - does he have a weapon, is he suicidal, etc. This time I had ran out of the house with the cordless land-line in my hand however, he left and did not come back until about 2 am. I felt no need to call police because he left which is all that I wanted. I heard him go directly to his room and close the door. I am feeling so bad this morning as I did not sleep well and I just want him out of my home for good! Am now searching for an apartment to put him in and hopefully this will come my way real soon. I am to the point where it is enough and at this time have no maternal feelings for him. I told Bob that if it becomes bad I will have an emergency restraining order - change all alarm codes and have the locks changed as well. I am so grateful that my daughter left for college on Sunday and did not witness this latest outburst. I will take actions as I am not willing to jeopardize my health - God willing.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I have worked in several in-patient psych units. It can be very difficult to call 911 on your loved one however, having county involvement can be a plus. Involuntary admissions can lead to mandated counseling, case managers, and medication management. People struggle to find services on their own. Also county HAS to pay if there is no insurance. In the US, I suggest looking on your county's website under "health and human services." Look for a crisis number. Not every police department is well trained and I would NOT reply on them to understand the situation. Under involuntary admission they can be held up to 72 hours not counting weekends and holidays. Then there is a "hearing." Folks either get discharged from court of need to come back. Second hearing is 2 weeks (in the counties I have worked with). Another option is called a "3 party petition." That is where three different people testify the person is a danger to themselves or others. They are held until a judge can hear the case. Usually it is a few weeks. If anyone has specific questions, I am happy to try to answer them. I know all the information can be overwhelming.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Well, you all have my empathy. We have a biological son who was diagnosed with various things until we basically figured out on our own that bipolar and Asperger's fit his issues the most, and then sought the evaluations for those. Prior to that, however, we had to deal with substance abuse because he wasn't getting the meds he needed...or rather, that we thought he needed. (Incidentally, our adopted child has been a dream. Go figure.)

I have come to a conclusion, however, that the meds are kind of a mixed bag. You first have hope that a pill will fix things, but it really does not. It might have a placebo effect or maybe even work for a little while, but eventually it stops working, you deal with the effects of that, then you're desperate to try the next one. He wants to feel normal so so badly, but in reality, we haven't found a way for him to be well for any period of time. He has always taken whatever meds he was given, but sadly they just don't necessarily fix anything. We've tried all kinds of professionals, doctors, counseling, etc. Family doctor is the one person we trust and actually seems to care.

We've tried him living here, then moved him to a cheap apartment when things weren't going well. The isolation drove him into a much worse condition where he was fairly hopeless and substance abuse began again. We finally had to pull him out of there before he ended up dead.

He is living in a room in our extra detached garage so we can sleep at night. His sleep is irregular so he is up at various times of the night, so at least we can sleep. We don't think he'll ever be able to hold a regular job. Our thoughts now are planning for him after we are gone. No one else would love him enough to deal with it. He is not abusive to us and most of the out-of-control times in the past had to do with alcohol or drugs (and yes, he's had legal issues related to that). But there have been times that I was afraid. He struggles to try to stay away from substances and can be successful for long periods, but sometimes he fails. It's like he's drowning and just can't quite reach the life raft even though he is swimming towards it. It is draining on me because I am the one he communicates with the most, but that is mostly by email because of his severe social anxiety. He IS trying. I am surprised he hasn't given up. There have been many, many times that I have not heard from him for a day or two and wonder if he is okay or not. He suffers deep depression and severe social anxiety.

I wasn't even going to go into it here. I choose not to go to counseling because I prefer to not spend one extra moment of time thinking or talking about this. There really isn't any advice anyone can give me that I haven't read on my own. I just wanted to say that I feel for all of you who have loved ones, especially children, with mental illness. No one understands if they have not lived it. I'd give you all a hug if I could.

And I fully agree....mental illness = HELL on earth

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I am so sorry J. (((hugs)))

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I am so sorry J. (((hugs)))

Thank you, S. I appreciate people like you who have learned through personal experience as well as going through extensive training to help others. That takes a very special person.

I should add that PS has been my great escape over the years giving me much needed breaks!

 

[AGBF]

Love you, DS. We share two things, as we have known for years: each of us has a daughter adopted from a foreign country and each of us has a mentally ill child. Now if anyone were able to dig up those photos of our dining rooms-the ones in which Jewel Freak kept mixing up whose house was whose-they might wonder why we share so many similarities!!!

I am so glad you posted here!

Hugs,
(((DS)))
Deb