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Wholesale price on chrome diopside?

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jszweda

Shiny_Rock
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Sep 17, 2005
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Hi all..

I have been trying to find a price guide or buyers guide on chrome diopside, and I have only found one. Unfortunately, it doesn''t go past a carat on the wholesale prices.

I have heard that if you want something over 1-2 carats and clean in that material, it''s tough to find and the price goes up accordingly. The one price guide I found said as the stone goes past 2 carats, the price increases significantly. I can''t remember what they go for wholesale. I emailed one vendor and am awaiting a response.

Does anyone have an idea as to what something in the 5-6 carat range wholesales for in the VVS range, bright imperial green/kelly green? I can''t find anything past the 9x7 range in what I can find online. What I am talking about shatters that size.

Thanks in advance.
-joe
 
Hello Joe,

I bought one a few years ago that is about 4 - 5 carats for about $50/ct since it was concidered rare.

Regards,
Maurice
 
Maurice,

Thanks for the reply. That price sounds way cheap compared to what I am seeing on the one price guide I can find. I found one that says if it''s 2 carats, $100-$120 a carat is within range as of last year. I heard past 2 carats the price goes up considerably. I found one stone that is somewhere between SI and VS clarity in a 3.68 carat, and I saw the list on that. I can''t find a current price guide that goes up that high for nothing. I have never seen anyone sell anything past 3 carats till the other day.

So you figure if yours wholesales for $100 a carat, you got a nice little return on your invesment.
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I just thought about this and meant to ask in my last post but forgot. Do you know what the dimensions are on yours? I am just trying to get an idea and compare it to certain formulas that give ball park estimates on weights.
 
Hello Joe,

I don't remember the actual weight. I know it is over 4cts but under 5cts (probubly 4.25cts). I can't find my scale right now. (my wife cleaned up my mess ). It's a shallow cut stone but very clean for chrome diopside. Only a few small black inclussions in one corner. The dimenssions are 15 X 8.5 and 5.5 deep. I bought it before anyone new what it was in about 2001. I bought it from a guy that was selling OYO tourmaline to me at $25/ct then. Great medium blue OYO Nigerian VVS tourmaline was $100/ct for 4ct stones. I bought a few of those from him along with a 20ct Brazilian orange precious topaz fior $800.

Regards,
Maurice
 
Perhaps larger stone are rare - don't know that. But there is one more thing that makes large cut green diopsite unusual - the material is dark, so large stones appear black. Some may cut it large anyway... but...

I know that large pieces of rough are not all that rare - but inclusions are a problem and you'd never see cut stones that are not eye clean given the low price.

There is some light green diopside too - but that is too light. I think it has a trade name already 'Kashmirine' or something.

If MJO has a large one with nice color to boot, that's quite lucky as far as I know
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Hello Ana,

I bought the Chrome Diopside because I never saw a large cut stone. It''s mediam dark tone but no fire since it is a shallow cut. Being shallow it isn''t as dark as a normal cut. I also bought a 40ct eye clean moldavite from him again just for collection purposes since it is also shallow cut but large for this speciman.

Regards,
Maurice
 
Date: 10/20/2005 11:06:19 PM
Author: valeria101
the material is dark, so large stones appear black. Some may cut it large anyway... but... There is some light green diopside too - but that is too light. I think it has a trade name already 'Kashmirine' or something.
Click to expand...

My price guide says $50 to $300 ct. RETAIL over 3 carats. That's no doubt due to the "darkness factor" on large stones Ana mentions: no premium for larger gems. Chrome diopside is very tricky to cut, soft, often has inclusions -- and is a perfect tsavorite look-alike when well-fashioned.

"Kashmirine" (LOL, close but no cigar!) is a trade-name for spessartite garnet from Pakistan. "Tashmarine" is Columbia Gem House's trademarked name for light-colored diopside from Kazakhstan. It's also soft and tricky to cut but is a very attractive light green color.

Richard M.
 
Date: 10/20/2005 11:25:16 PM
Author: Richard M.

''Tashmarine'' is Columbia Gem House''s trademarked name for light-colored diopside from Kazakhstan. It''s also soft and tricky to cut but is a very attractive light green color.
Click to expand...
Yes. That is it. I didn''t even know of the other!

The largest nice color chrome diopside I cam across was cut briolette: not brilliant, as usual, but at least not too dark to show color either.
 
Date: 10/20/2005 11:32:57 PM
Author: MJO
Web link to story on Tashmarine:
Click to expand...

Thanks. Another, but I was wrong about Kazakhstan. If I read correctly China is the location: Tashmarine

Richard M.
 
Date: 10/20/2005 11:51:18 PM
Author: Richard M.

Date: 10/20/2005 11:32:57 PM
Author: MJO
Web link to story on Tashmarine:
Click to expand...

Thanks. Another, but I was wrong about Kazakhstan. If I read correctly China is the location: Tashmarine

Richard M.
Click to expand...
Hi Richard,

Thanks for this link. The link I gave has some other neat stuff on other pages. Did you take a look? It''s articals are short and gives some pictures. I need that at times like this after I take my sleeping pill and am noding off.

Regards,
Maurice
 
Ana,

You are right as for the dark color and the inclusions. From what I understand, if it''s included, that''s not uncommon. If it''s clean, and it''s large, that''s another story.

The more yellowy looking stuff comes from Africa. What I am looking for is a price/carat for something that is kelly green and just shy of loupe clean. I think that $100-$300 per carat is a wholesale price and not retail. I have seen one price guide that says $100/carat give or take for something up to 2 carats wholesale.
 
Maurice,

It sounds like yours is a ~4.85 ct. Does that sound within range? I am just curious as to how close the formula I have is...and assuming I got the SG right. LOL
 
Richard,

Thanks for the reply. Here are 2 links that I found..here is what I found from the buyers guide I could find online that is just over a year old:

http://diopsidemines.com/buyers_guide.php

If you go by the list price on this link, your price guide is inline with this:

http://www.shopnbc.com/product/?familyid=J152488&taxid=2&track=-10451

Now, picture that only bigger, brighter as in it would compete with a tsavorite under good lighting and cleaner than the closeup image. That''s what I am trying to find a price on. Do you have a link to your price guide or is it in print form? I ask just so I can compare notes, not to dispute the validity of anything.
 
Hello Joe,

The shopping channel stone is dark. It''s even darker than mine.

Regards,
Maurice
 
Date: 10/21/2005 12:40:23 AM
Author: jszweda
Do you have a link to your price guide or is it in print form? I ask just so I can compare notes, not to dispute the validity of anything.
Click to expand...

Price guides are just that -- stones sell daily higher and lower. It all comes down to a deal between two people and no two deals are really the same. Exceptional stones bring exceptional prices but there''s always the problem of the seller finding the right buyer.

You requested info and I responded with information pubished by the International Gem Society in 2002. This is a fee-membership group and gem price guidelines are published annually in its journal, "Color & Light." Since chrome diopside isn''t really a "hot" gem at the moment I''m not aware of any big price swings from three years ago.

Richard M.
 
I just saw the new Winter 2005/2006 issue of THE GUIDE which puts 2-5ct chrome diopside in EX FINE quality at $50-$80/ct

Maurice
 
Maurice,

I agree that the one on the shopping channel is way too dark. I get the distinct impression that what you have is what they refer to as Imperial Russian Diopside, which is still a chrome. The different that I am under the impression of is that the imperial stuff has way less tone than that, and a lot brighter. That''s the really good stuff which is what I am trying to find some more info on. If yours is that color like I suspect, its awesome.
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Date: 10/21/2005 3:12:25 PM
Author: jszweda
Maurice,

I agree that the one on the shopping channel is way too dark. I get the distinct impression that what you have is what they refer to as Imperial Russian Diopside, which is still a chrome. The different that I am under the impression of is that the imperial stuff has way less tone than that, and a lot brighter. That's the really good stuff which is what I am trying to find some more info on. If yours is that color like I suspect, its awesome.
21.gif
Click to expand...
Hi Joe,

It is Russian Chrome Diopside. That is what the guy I bought it from told me. He told me it was hard to find large peices and it was still low priced so I bought it. He's still around on ebay under the name Ravenstein-investment-gems if you want to see if he has more. I know he bought a big stock of Checkoslovakian (s?) Moldavite he is selling. It is interesting in that it is supposed to be made by the heat of a meteorite impact millions of years ago and that dust from the meteor is included in it. I guess you could call it out of this world (Hahaha).

I found him selling this siberian chrome diopside:

http://cgi.ebay.com/R-Siberian-CHROME-DIOPSIDE-48-07ct-INVESTMENT-Crystal_W0QQitemZ5045375175QQcategoryZ493QQcmdZViewItem


Regards,
Maurice
 
Maurice,

Maybe either you or Richard could shed some insight on this for me. I guess people know what a chrome tourmaline looks like and what a chrome diopside looks like. Now either there is some rediculous markup on something somewhere, or something is missing from the equation.

Here is how this whole interest in this started with me. I have always loved emeralds. However, if they''re not clean, forget it. I always thought it would be cool to have a gents ring with an emerald in it. Then one day, I woke up to reality and said this isn''t going to happen in my lifetime. LOL.

So I saw green tourmaline, which is OK. Then I saw a chrome tourmaline. Most of the ones I have seen were a little too on the forest green side, and I could see a grey tone in it. So that really didn''t impress me as much as a good kelly green tourmaline which are hard to find (or so it seems). Then I found out about tsavorites.
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Then I found out about the price on those.
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Sometime over a year ago, my mother got a ring with some small chrome diopsides in them, and I thought they were really good emeralds. Then she told me what it was. I thought to myself, those look a lot nice than any chrome tourmaline I have ever seen. The thing is, you generally find very small ones and not the big ones.

Until very recently, the only place I knew of that had some larger chrome diopsides was one of these shows-if anyone knows who "Uncle Fester" is, then you know who I am referring to. That guy has some extremely clean, and super intense green stuff. They are about as bad as a good chrome tourmaline, and what he has isn''t cheap pricewise.

Now, I know that the terrain where that stuff is makes it tough to get, and the weather doesn''t help. So how come is it that if you find a really clean diopside that looks every bit as good as an awesome tsavorite, why are we seeing price guides that say retail $100-$300 a carat unless it''s referring to that really dark stuff and not the imperial Russian stuff? Is it possible that the dark stuff that you generally find is one thing, but if you have one that isn''t as dark but green (not the stuff from Africa) that if that is the case it makes that big of a difference? Is someong just making killer profit or does it just depend on the market?
 
Hi Joe,

I will have to answer later. Just got back from ER. I accidently splashed clorox in my eye and am not allowed to keep it open or go on the computer for long. I''m having a hard time seeing to write this.

Regards,
Maurice
 
Hi Joe, It sounds like you are saying that because the two different type stones look alike why are they not priced alike? Regards Doug PS Maurice, sorry to hear of your accident.
 
Hi Doug.
emsmile.gif


First off to Maurice, make sure you''re OK before you go reading emails! I am sorry to hear what happened to you, and it''s not worth the risk if you can''t see and you injure yourself even more. Then you can''t see all these goody goody things anymore.

As for what you were asking Doug, this is exactly what I am saying. The good imperial Russian diopside as I refer to is (since that is what some of it is called) has a lot more pure green to it than a given chrome tourmaline. From what I have seen up close and in person on a chrome tourmaline, it''s more of a forest color and the tone is on the grey side. Don''t get me wrong, I have nothing against chrome tourmaline. I have seen the wholesale and list prices on those things, and they aren''t cheap-mainly from the 2-3 carat range on.

Now I have seen really good chrome diopside. When I say good, I mean eye clean (at least) and a purer green. While there is tone, to me it''s more subtle than what I have seen in the tourmalines that have chrome in them. From what I remember though, the retail price on a chrome diopside was as bad if not worse than the same size in a chrome tourmaline. Now I know the wholesale price is a different ball game.

I am under the impression that the markup for a good chrome diopside might be a lot more than what it is traditionally. I know that the olive colored stuff is a little pricey from what I have seen in list prices. Most of what I can find online is that shade, and the really good stuff like the one Maurice has is a lot tougher to find, and clean.

So what I am wondering is if there is that much more of a markup on the CD at a retail level with the logic, if it will rival a good chrome tourmaline or tsavorite, let''s see if we can match the price too. I don''t know. From what I do remember on that one channel though, that one guy charges a pretty price on something pushing 3 carats that is clean. I have checked into some of his list prices, and they are accurate. I also talked to Richard Sherwood earlier via email (specail thanks to him), and he gave me a price guide for a wholesale level for chrome diopside.

From the one chain retailler I remember seeing here, it was not cheap and that was for small stones. I have never seen the big ones untill very recently locally. So if retail from what someone was saying on here is $300 a carat worse case, how come a chrome tourmaline in the same size and color can be $750/carat or better? That is what I don''t understand unless I have some out of wack information or something. LOL

Thanks in advance.
 
From what I can see chrome tourmaline from 3 to 5cts starts at $ 50 a ct commercial. and goes up to $450 to $625 a ct for ex fine wholesale. My source is a little out of date though. Chrome tourmaline has probaly gone up in the two years since this was published. Regards Doug
 
Joe,

Chrome diopside, tsavorite and chrome tourmaline are three entirely different minerals with different properties. The biggest problem with diopside apart from its unfortunate name is its perfect cleavage in two directions. That makes it very difficult to cut and unreliable in wear since it can split fairly easily. It''s also a lot softer than the other two minerals. Best color generally shows in shallow brilliants and step cuts.

Tsavorite was introduced and named by Tiffany & Co. and Campbell Bridges, its Indiana Jones-like discoverer, which gave it high-end cachet to start with. It''s also very beautiful and has more brilliance than the other two stones. It''s singly refractive so has no secondary pleochroic hue.

Chrome tourmaline is much prettier than chrome diopside IMO and is harder. While some can be too dark, it can generally be cut to proper angles for best brilliance and rich color. The supply of top material is regulated by the mine owner in Africa, I''m told, so good stones are always in short supply which increases the price. That''s about all I can tell you. Good luck with your stone.

Richard M.
 
Maurice,

Hope there''s no permanent damage. I got hydrochloric acid in my eye once when testing gold so I can really sympathize.

Richard M.
 
Date: 10/22/2005 10:51:07 PM
Author: jszweda

So if retail from what someone was saying on here is $300 a carat worse case, how come a chrome tourmaline in the same size and color can be $750/carat or better? That is what I don''t understand unless I have some out of wack information or something.
Click to expand...

Joe, first...I don''t think you''ll find much chrome diopside selling retail at 300 per carat, and second...one of the major reasons you won''t find chrome diopside commanding the prices of chrome tourmaline and tsavorite is because it is a soft stone with perfect cleavage, which precludes it from usually being a good candidate for a ring stone.

Both the chrome tourmaline and tsavorite make good ring stones. Many people also prefer the color and "crystal" of the tourm and tsav over diopside as well. Mineralogically, the tsavorite is much more rare than the diopside, and in most cases fine chrome green tourmaline is more rare as well.

That said, the chrome diopside is a beautiful stone in its own right. You''re just comparing oranges to apples is all.
 
Richard,

Thanks for the reply. I understand about the rarity of a tsavorite and such, don''t get me wrong. I also understand about the softness factor and all, then again that doesn''t seem to affect other very soft stones like opals and tanzanite. I know of someone who replaced a significant number of those before it became the commodity it is today.

As for the color and such, for exemplery purposes...compare the colors here..

http://www.ajsgems.com/DIC/DIC.htm
http://www.ajsgems.com/TCH/TCH.htm

This guys pics tend to be a little dark sometimes, but look at the brighter green diopsides and look at the tourmalines. If worse comes to worse, click on some pics just to compare the color. I know you''re a GG and I don''t mean to insult you or anything. LOL. However, typically what I have seen in the chrome isn''t as bright. I am not saying you can''t find it bright like that and vice versa with the diopside.

Barring someone doing some photoshop tricks or something like that, compare the color alone of a tsavorite, a chrome tourmaline, and a chrome diopside. I am sure you can find stones that are within range of the other online. I am not saying they have the same exact spectral properties or anything like that...don''t get me wrong. What I am saying is with the unaided eye, look at some of these things.
emsmile.gif
Now in that case, are those colors all that radically different? LOL
 
Hi Joe if we carry this logic a little further diamond , zircon, sapphire, topaz ,danburite should all be in the same price range as well. Regards Doug
 
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