sparklestick
Shiny_Rock
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why are most so particular about clarity?
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elle_chris
Ideal_Rock
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I totally disagree that clarity above an SI2 is a waste of money. It all depends on what the person is comfortable with. What they think is worth spending money on. DiamondSeekers example of a Camry vs Lexus is perfect. They''re both beautiful and reliable but some people are willing to spend for extra quality.
I also think it depends on the size of the stone. I''ve looked at SI clarity stones in above the 2ct range. I could not find any that were eye clean. I''m sure they exist, but I don''t believe they''re so common.
I happen to be one of those that thinks it''s a waste of money to go down to an SI2 with an E color. But hey, different people have different priorites. To each their own.
I also think it depends on the size of the stone. I''ve looked at SI clarity stones in above the 2ct range. I could not find any that were eye clean. I''m sure they exist, but I don''t believe they''re so common.
I happen to be one of those that thinks it''s a waste of money to go down to an SI2 with an E color. But hey, different people have different priorites. To each their own.
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Sorry, I completely disagree. I would refuse to even spend the money on anything above an SI stone. No one is going to ever look that close to your diamond and say, "my my you have an inclusion in there!!" If it really bugs you, then spend the money, I personally do not think that diamond beauty is affected by a small inclusion here or there. Cutting and color are far more important variables.
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If you have diamonds that look like gravel, then they're probably I3 clarity or worse. However many SI stones are perfectly fine and you can't see any difference between them and a VVS or IF stone. You might see an inclusion more easily in an assher or emerald cut, but there are fine stones of those cuts in SI quality as well. After going to SMTR thread, and viewing a zillion picturs of gorgeous SI quality diamonds, I feel I can honestly say that SI is just as good as VVS or IF. Just go to the mall and see if you can see a difference in the rings in the showcases. I do feel really strongly about putting too much emphasis on diamond clarity, it's a bit ridiculous to waste your money on something you simply cannot see, and I think it's important to educate people on the unimportance of clarity to help them save money on a diamond. Now if the diamond has a huge feather that penetrates the stone or it is in a fragile area, like a corner, than that's one thing, and just make sure your SI stone doesn't have inclusions that may cause issues. However, most SI diamonds are perfectly fine and beautiful.
Since diamonds are artificially high in price, it's best to save your money on the variables that matter least, like clarity. If having a VVS stone helps you sleep better at night, go spend your money.
BTW, some I-clarity diamonds are gorgeous as well, and a very affordable option. DBL sells some colored I-quality diamonds that are real sparklers.
platinumrock
Ideal_Rock
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This is my point. I can visually SEE the difference between between a Camry and Lexus. I can even see the difference between the features offered/not offered for the price. THAT is the type of quality I am willing to pay more for, if I wanted a Lexus. Now if it was Lexus Vs. Lexus (same standard features, same year and model), and one offers the extra seating tha I am looking for, okay, I''m willing to pay extra. That is a visual difference that I can SEE.
So if two diamonds are an exact match in other parameters (2.0 cts, 8.2 mm spread, J, ACA), GIA certified, and I have to use a loupe to see which one is SI2 OR VS2, then paying extra for the VS2 is a matter of security, not necessarily quality.
You all are arguing over things that do not have a right or wrong answer. I pay more for nicer things (cars, homes, etc..) and knowing that it is nicer is worth it to me. I could care less what anyone else thinks... Quality is not always seen, it is often behind the scenes...... So all because you can't see something does not make it any less of a reason to pay more for it. Definitions of quality vary too so if SI is quality to you then so be it. If VS is better for you then go for it. But do not insult others by trying to convince them you are right and they are wrong. Clarity deals with rarity first of all, and if your want something rarer, so be it.
In the end I am happy and those of you that are trying to say you are right, question yourself and why you are trying to push your agenda. Arguing over clarity is kinda a waste when everyone has different standards. Just make sure you are happy in the end.
In the end I am happy and those of you that are trying to say you are right, question yourself and why you are trying to push your agenda. Arguing over clarity is kinda a waste when everyone has different standards. Just make sure you are happy in the end.
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I''m sorry you''re insulted, but my real issue on pricescope is to educate people to put their hard earned money in the important aspects of a piece of jewelry or a gemstone. VS is not better quality in the terms that your VS diamond is so much better than an SI one with all other things being equal, but the price point makes it seem that way. It''s a marketing scheme by DeBeers to make more money. The fact that I can see two tiny inclusions in a SI diamond with a 10x loupe vs seeing a small inclusion with a microscope in your VVS stone is ridiculous to the point of insulting. I think the consumer should be advised, and stay clear of VVS, VS and IF stones unless you have money to burn. Now, I do think you should pay more for an SI stone than an I stone with eye visible inclusions, if those inclusions really bother you.
diamondcookie
Rough_Rock
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My SI2 center stone isn''t eye-clean at all - there is one large carbon thread inclusion, right under the table. Nevertheless, my fiance picked it, and I wear it proudly.
I guess my point is: higher clarity grades are sometimes worth paying for, because not all SI''s are eye-clean, and therefore wouldn''t be satisfactory to alot of people. But on the flipside, when your man proposes... even as a diamond enthusiast, how can you turn down a ring he picked just for you?
I guess my point is: higher clarity grades are sometimes worth paying for, because not all SI''s are eye-clean, and therefore wouldn''t be satisfactory to alot of people. But on the flipside, when your man proposes... even as a diamond enthusiast, how can you turn down a ring he picked just for you?
Just an FYI, I have yet to see an SI or even a VS2 that is eyeclean to MY standards (however, VS2 is usually where I fall). I have worked with several PS vendors who have sent me many stones 1.5-2.5 cts that were "eyeclean" S1's and VS2's and they were NOT to me. These stones were even judged based on my parameters by several sales associates. I know it was not done on purpose, but my point is that everyone has different vision and some people can see things in SI's that you cannot. Your vision is very different than mine and I seem to have abnormally good vision.. Vision is different to everyone and w/o a loupe I could see inclusions almost a foot away on those "eyeclean" stones. Your suggestions are very bold and I would suggest to any person reading this thread to buy a diamond that makes you happy and is eye clean and perfect to your standards. People like the range of S1 to VS so do what works for you!!! If you like vvs clarity great! Everyone is different and there is no recipe....
emeraldlover1
Ideal_Rock
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Can't you honestly say that of stones that are J or lower color? There are tons of beauties on here.
Two more questions for you... Where does your thought process on DeBeers come from? I really don't know anything but I'm asking because I've heard more than one of my fiance's friends discussing how DeBeers owns most of the worlds diamonds and keeps them out of circulation (the whole blood diamond premise). Is this stuff proven or stuff people make up? I haven't done any research into it so it may be plain and clear but I really don't know. I figured since you mentioned DeBeers you must know something about them. Thanks!
ETA: you briefly mentioned this but since the op hasn't specified what shape stone he is looking for, if it were me I would not buy a SI1 emerald cut. We looked at a lot of stones and no SI1's were eye clean to my standards. There are some out there but since some people are buying online without pictures a emerald cut SI1 would NOT be in my safe zone. Completely personal preference I suppose.
coatimundi_org
Ideal_Rock
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beach--we have the same vision--loupe vision!
Here's a fun history/breakdown of the GIA, AGS, IDC, CIBJO clarity grading systems.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_clarity
Choose whatever clarity you like folks!
glitterata
Ideal_Rock
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I''m going to go even further and say that I don''t even need a stone to be eye clean, as long as I find the inclusions appealing and they''re not interfering with the sparkle.
I don''t expect anybody to agree with me. That''s fine. It''s just my personal taste. I also like brussels sprouts and hate tiramisu.
I don''t expect anybody to agree with me. That''s fine. It''s just my personal taste. I also like brussels sprouts and hate tiramisu.
elle_chris
Ideal_Rock
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coatimundi_org
Ideal_Rock
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I don't want to go into specifics because it will probably open a can of worms, but no other stone is as scrutinized for clarity as are diamonds. I cannot think of any other gemstone that it will cause grief if there is a microscopic inclusion. DeBeers controls most of the world's supply of diamonds, and they control prices according to the grades, and that includes clarity within the 4 C's. If the marketing campaigns that DeBeers has introduced didn't give the impression that clarity was so important, then people would pay less attention to it and the monetary prices would not be so different according to the clarity grades. Again, you may all love your VVS, VS stones, but believe me that in your lifetime, unless you have a friend who is a gemologist, if your stone is a beautiful color, great cut and a decent size, no one will ever look at your VVS stone any differently if it was an SI. Of all the four C's, I actually think cut is most important. Put a ACA H-SI2 next to a badly cut F-VVS1, the ACA will look a million times better. I've seen it with my own eyes time and time again.
CharmyPoo
Ideal_Rock
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No more fighting! Bottom line is to each their own. Some people like green ... others like pink. Some like VS and above diamonds ... others like SI and below. some like their diamonds white ... others like some warmth. Some are motivated to buy the best grading they can ... others are looking for the best value. We all have our own tolerance levels. It really doesn't matter. That's what makes us all unique!
By the way, I also love brussels sprouts!
By the way, I also love brussels sprouts!
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The point was kind of missed about the Camry and Lexus. The primary purpose of that purchase is for transportation, not something to sit around and look at. Both supply totally reliable transportation. But one costs a heck of a lot more than the other. Some are willing to pay for it, and some or not. But a better example would be why some buy a diamond ring from Tiffany''s when they could get the same thing elsewhere for half the price. To some, the Tiffany name is worth paying for, and if they can afford to get the size they want there, why not???
I''ll definitely differ on the last statement. The pricing structure says the higher the color, cut, and clarity, the more rare the stone and the more costly it is. If someone can afford D VVS, more power to them! For me personally. I wouldn''t pay for more than F-H VS1, but that has to do with my preferences and what our finances allow. If I were a multi-millionaire, I would still go for high color, cut, and clarity over a huge size.
This is all about personal preference and what each person is willing to pay for. It is fairly ridiculous for someone to say that it is a waste to buy higher than SI clarity. I can just as easily say I think it is a waste to buy VVS. But there are people who want D IF, and that is fine for them. I remember a guy on here who was marrying a dentist and she did not want a large diamond. So he bought her a 1 ct. D IF because he could afford that. Even though everything in me would say, "oh, why not go to 1.5???", he got exactly what SHE wanted, so it was NOT a waste of money for them!!!
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TL, I think where we differ is that I could care less about what anyone else thinks about my diamonds! I don''t buy them to impress anyone else! I could have bought a 2 ct. stone easily for the money we spent on my diamond, but the truth was and is, I didn''t want a 2 ct. stone! So I went with a color and clarity that I liked (in an ideal cut stone, of course).
And incidentally, I have the same standards for colored gems. I want a nice balance of great color, great cut, and high clarity, which may take a long time to find. This means I won''t have a large sapphire, either. But I''ll have what pleases ME, and that is why I buy jewelry!
Dreamer_D
Super_Ideal_Rock
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I agree with this statement completely. Diamonds are a luxory product with no inherent value except what we impart to them, and selecting that type of product, IMHO, can only ever be a truly subjective process. Like buying art!
That said, when I try to help people here in Rocky Talky I do usually try to point out that they do not NEED to pay for higher clarity and color. Many jewelers really push the importance of those factors and I feel this misleads consumers into thinking they are getting "poor quality" if they go lower than E color and lower than VVS1. This seems like a money grab to me and I hate money grabs! I think it is totally fair for people to make their own choice about where on the clarity and color scale they are most comfortable, but I think as consumers it is important that we know that our choices in those areas are exactly that: Choices, preferences, whims. Whatever.
Now cut on the other hand, THAT is not subjective at all!
platinumrock
Ideal_Rock
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Not all SI stones are created equal, in that case, you can find SI stones that do not have eye visible inclusions when looking down at the table. As I mentioned previously, inclusions should be looked at to make sure they don't disturb the integrity of the stone. If the inclusion is something that really bothers you, there are a myriad of SI stones with inclusions that are very difficult to see. I have several diamonds (all colored) with inclusions that are very very difficult to see unless you turn the stone on it's face or look at it with a loupe. It's often much easier to see inclusions from the pavillion (face down) than through the table. Even the type of inclusion can make it less noticable, like a small cloud or feather vs a carbon spot.
surfgirl
Ideal_Rock
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Like beach, I can see inclusions a mile away. And I dont want them in my stones. I'd much prefer to buy a smaller stone with the best cut, color and clarity that I can afford, and sacrifice on the carat weight. And since I usually buy antique stones, my choices are limited but clarity is a must for me as well. I personally wouldn't want an ering stone that was under a VS1 because I see every little thing and it would bug me to see little things in my stone, particularly if I could see them with my eye.
But to say that people are basically ridiculous for buying anything over an SI grade? That's actually doing a huge dis-service to people coming here for knowledge and information. TL, just because you are happy with an eye clean SI stone doesn't mean others have to feel the same way. And to chastise people for wanting to place emphasis on one of the 4C's more than the others, that seems odd to me. It seems more like you're taking personal offense because you have an SI stone and some other people on this thread prefer VS or VVS. As long as you love YOUR stone, live and let live.
ETA: I would say that being able to tell which stones are actually eye clean from looking at photos in the SMTR thread is a little bit different that seeing those stones in real life...
But to say that people are basically ridiculous for buying anything over an SI grade? That's actually doing a huge dis-service to people coming here for knowledge and information. TL, just because you are happy with an eye clean SI stone doesn't mean others have to feel the same way. And to chastise people for wanting to place emphasis on one of the 4C's more than the others, that seems odd to me. It seems more like you're taking personal offense because you have an SI stone and some other people on this thread prefer VS or VVS. As long as you love YOUR stone, live and let live.
ETA: I would say that being able to tell which stones are actually eye clean from looking at photos in the SMTR thread is a little bit different that seeing those stones in real life...
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Absolutely not, and why would I care if someone had a VVS stone? It''s not a jealousy thing, believe me. I think it''s a huge disservice to people on this forum to not bring up the issues with clarity. I get so upset when I see a person have a heart attack over a cloud in a stone they cannot see with their naked eye. Someone has to get the word out to people that clarity is the least important of all the four C''s. Several jewelers even admitted this to me, and one said that the best value for your money is an F-SI2 for color/clarity combination. It''s important that YOU love your diamond, yes, but it''s also important that you are getting something tangible for your money.
surfgirl
Ideal_Rock
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But you seem to be the one with issues about clarity. Others discuss it but you sound like an evangelical preacher (sorry, I couldn''t come up with any other analogy) over this. It''s one issue of many that a prospective buyer should be aware of. YOU are saying that for YOU clarity is the least important of the 4Cs, and that''s fine. For you. That doesn''t mean that on the back of the Ten Commandments it says "Thou shalt not buy above SI diamonds." Honestly, it''s bizarre how fanatical you are over this issue. Believe it or not, many people find clarity important, to varying degrees. Many people think carat weigh is the least important aspect of the 4Cs because they want the most naturally perfect stone they can afford. That''s not ridiculous. And it''s not some global conspiracy (yes, I saw your rant on DeBeers continuing in the Colored Stone arena...for real?), it''s people wanting different levels of something. You want a Toyota, I want a loaded Honda, someone else wants a Benz. It''s not for you to say which aspect of the 4Cs is the most important, you can only say what is most important to you.
As for "getting the word out", seriously?
As for the "several jewelers who''ve admitted that clarity is the least important of the 4Cs", well, I cant really compete with several jewelers, can I? Though I know more than several jewelers in several cities and I wouldn''t buy anything from any of them. But that''s another story altogether!
As for "getting the word out", seriously?
As for the "several jewelers who''ve admitted that clarity is the least important of the 4Cs", well, I cant really compete with several jewelers, can I? Though I know more than several jewelers in several cities and I wouldn''t buy anything from any of them. But that''s another story altogether!
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You guys crack me up
and that's one of the things I LOVE about PS'ers, our sense of humour and differing diverse tastes!!
For what's it's worth, I *HATE* brussel sprouts with a vengence (I call them the devil's vegetable
) and I *adore* tiramisu (and this is coming from someone who is not particuarly fond of desserts).
For me, an engagement ring (which includes an upgraded ering) has a special meaning and I cannot possibly think about anything below F colour VS2 for an ering. A RHR however is entirely different and is "fair game" as far as I am concerned. I have an H SI2 for my RHR which I completely *adore* and which receives far more compliments than my ering.
At the end of the day though, it's all about personal preferences. Some people go for size (and I am rather guilty here, tee hee), some go for clarity, some go for colour. Most (at least most PS'ers) go for *CUT* first, followed by colour/ clarity/ size - whatever takes your fancy.
Again, for me, anything below J or even I is not acceptable. I recently bought K colour stud earrings and I am completely unhapphy with the yellow colour and am therefore upgrading to J or even I coloured studs (I am still trying to decide if J is ok for me). There are many many PS'ers here who are very happy with their J or K coloured stones. Clarity wise, I *HATE* black crystals, BUT only if they are eye-visible (and then for erings, that's not acceptable, even if they're only visble under 10 times magnification). But that's just *me*, I would never claim to be right.
I've read on PS many many posts about people not liking feather. For me, as long as a feather doesn't break the surface, I'd rather have a feather than a black crystal inclusion - any time!
At the end of the day, do that makes *YOU* happy. There's no right or wrong answer.
For what's it's worth, I *HATE* brussel sprouts with a vengence (I call them the devil's vegetable
For me, an engagement ring (which includes an upgraded ering) has a special meaning and I cannot possibly think about anything below F colour VS2 for an ering. A RHR however is entirely different and is "fair game" as far as I am concerned. I have an H SI2 for my RHR which I completely *adore* and which receives far more compliments than my ering.
At the end of the day though, it's all about personal preferences. Some people go for size (and I am rather guilty here, tee hee), some go for clarity, some go for colour. Most (at least most PS'ers) go for *CUT* first, followed by colour/ clarity/ size - whatever takes your fancy.
Again, for me, anything below J or even I is not acceptable. I recently bought K colour stud earrings and I am completely unhapphy with the yellow colour and am therefore upgrading to J or even I coloured studs (I am still trying to decide if J is ok for me). There are many many PS'ers here who are very happy with their J or K coloured stones. Clarity wise, I *HATE* black crystals, BUT only if they are eye-visible (and then for erings, that's not acceptable, even if they're only visble under 10 times magnification). But that's just *me*, I would never claim to be right.
I've read on PS many many posts about people not liking feather. For me, as long as a feather doesn't break the surface, I'd rather have a feather than a black crystal inclusion - any time!
At the end of the day, do that makes *YOU* happy. There's no right or wrong answer.
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Surfgirl,
It's my opinion, nothing more. I am simply here on PS trying to help people make an educated decision. Many people want to spend their money wisely on a diamond. If you are a rich person, than buy what you like, but for the others, it really breaks my heart when they spend their hard earned money on somethng they cannot see. Of all the four C's, I do believe clarity is the least important, and not just any jeweler has told me that, but ones from high-end stores and well known diamond dealers.
I apologize if I'm sounding evangelical, often the written word comes out sounding differently. As for color, I'm not going to say an F is better than a J. Some people actually prefer a tint to their diamond, and that's a matter of taste and something you can see (although we can get into the topic of a D vs an F color, but I don't care to). However, for an SI diamond without eye-visible inclusions vs. a VS, I don't see a difference, except in the pocketbook. However, if you have the money to spend on a VS diamond, go for it if it makes you happy. Your diamond dealer will be thrilled!
As for DeBeers, I made one statement about them in the colored stone section, and I don't consider that "ranting." As someone who has collected colored stones as well as colored diamonds for twenty plus years, I do see things a little a little differently than the first time consumer going to purchase their first engagement ring.
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