why can''t boys just figure things out on their own?

[Delster]

Date: 3/25/2008 7:11:32 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Sometimes gals, you need to change your expectations because guys won''t change.

Even IF you got him to do it now, I can almost guarantee you that it would change after you are married. Some guys don''t have it in them. Either you drive yourself crazy or figure out a way to live with it.

We as women really do a poor job sometimes of realizing and appreciating how men DO show their love. If you (I''m using ''you'' generally here, not just to Smurfy) are not seeing his affection and care in other ways, then I would ask why you are with him.

My brother is a total romantic. Every valentine''s day, he would bring flowers for me and my mom. The reason? Because my father never did anything for my mom and I was single and he didn''t want us to feel left out. When I met TGuy he exclaimed with glee, ''Can I stop getting you flowers now?'' Ha...have I gotten flowers for vday since? Nope. Do I care? Nope. I still miss those flowers from my bro though because it was so genuinely sweet he would do that for me.

My bro still makes cards for his wife. Handmakes them. He takes a week off from work for her birthday every year and takes her on a trip. Anniversaries are celebrated in Hawaii every year. But this is WHO HE IS. He was ALWAYS that way. Sometimes it made me want to barf.

I pick my own presents. I''m lucky if I get a note on my birthday. Anniversaries? Uh, we both forget.

But TGuy doesn''t let me carry groceries in case I strain myself. He calls me everyday to let me know he''s on his way home from work. He likes me to come hang out with him, even if it''s with the boys. Is it romantic? Not in the traditional sense, no. But I do love that he THINKS of me even in those little things. Sometimes women are so fixated on the things for show, they don''t stop and notice the things that really come from the heart.

Yes, yes, yes - I agree 1000%!

Smurfy, talk to him. Telling him not to talk to you and then apologising because you''re scared you acted too harshly is clearly not working out, you know? He needs to know this is important to you and that this is part of your ''affection currency'' but it''s also important that he doesn''t feel forced into behaving in a manner that''s unnatural to him. There''s a happy medium in there somewhere.

BF and I actually had our five year anniversary recently. He bought me a subscription to Interweave Knits (you can''t get it in Ireland). It still hasn''t arrived, not even a confirmation email. I knit him one sock (yes, one sock) that was waaaay too big. He professed himself, eh, flattered

I ripped it back and reworked it and still haven''t finished the second sock!

 

[Smurfysmiles]

well the subject of anniversaries came up while driving back into town from easter dinner and i said can we do something fun this year, we didnt last year. and said no we probably wont do anything, im just going to work instead. to which i got visibly upset. obviously crying after that conversation isnt enough to show him i was upset? im just gonna get the same response if we have the same conversation again

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 3/25/2008 7:30:37 PM
Author: Smurfysmiles
i know that tgal
dont take this the wrong way but you always seem to know how to kick me when im down

Maybe it's because I'm always amazed at how you can't see it from anyone else's perspective but your own? And I don't try to kick you, but as I always say perception is everything, so I am sorry you perceive it that way. Wallowing in a bit of self pity is fine, especially here on the LIW forum, but don't be surprised that when you post a "vent" that people aren't going to say, "well, yanno...."

He is who he is, smurfy. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you will not have the heartbreak. TGuy and I recently had a 5 year anniversary of the day we met...I think there is a thread on it somewhere where I started thinking about this anniversary back in November, when the anniversary is February 3rd. It was a special one to me because 5 years ago he said he wouldn't even make it to the U.S. for a visit in 5 years. Fast forward 5 years and we're married and expecting.

I asked him to pencil in February 2nd for me and I made the reservation at the Croatian restaurant. I took care of everything. It was simple and wonderful, albeit not overly romantic but we just hung out and walked down memory lane.

But take note...I asked him to pencil in February 2nd. You know why? Because Feb 3rd was SUPERBOWL, and I was setting myself for grim failure if I was going to compete with football and a bunch of guys high five love fest. In the scheme of things, *should* a five year anniversary come ahead of an every year football event? Possibly. But it is what it is, and you gotta work with what you got. That is all I am saying.

And honestly, when you post, you pretty much sound miserable in your relationship.

 

[Smurfysmiles]

well it seems like you always write that way for every vent you read. i mean , would it kill you to just sympathize instead? thank goodness my real life friends are getting me out of the apt for awhile so that we can do just that

 

[Hera]

Date: 3/25/2008 7:11:32 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Sometimes gals, you need to change your expectations because guys won''t change.

Even IF you got him to do it now, I can almost guarantee you that it would change after you are married. Some guys don''t have it in them. Either you drive yourself crazy or figure out a way to live with it.

We as women really do a poor job sometimes of realizing and appreciating how men DO show their love. If you (I''m using ''you'' generally here, not just to Smurfy) are not seeing his affection and care in other ways, then I would ask why you are with him.

My brother is a total romantic. Every valentine''s day, he would bring flowers for me and my mom. The reason? Because my father never did anything for my mom and I was single and he didn''t want us to feel left out. When I met TGuy he exclaimed with glee, ''Can I stop getting you flowers now?'' Ha...have I gotten flowers for vday since? Nope. Do I care? Nope. I still miss those flowers from my bro though because it was so genuinely sweet he would do that for me.

My bro still makes cards for his wife. Handmakes them. He takes a week off from work for her birthday every year and takes her on a trip. Anniversaries are celebrated in Hawaii every year. But this is WHO HE IS. He was ALWAYS that way. Sometimes it made me want to barf.

I pick my own presents. I''m lucky if I get a note on my birthday. Anniversaries? Uh, we both forget.

But TGuy doesn''t let me carry groceries in case I strain myself. He calls me everyday to let me know he''s on his way home from work. He likes me to come hang out with him, even if it''s with the boys. Is it romantic? Not in the traditional sense, no. But I do love that he THINKS of me even in those little things. Sometimes women are so fixated on the things for show, they don''t stop and notice the things that really come from the heart.

I agree too. After ten years of marriage, I''ve given up on those things too. I no longer tell him how wonderful it would be for him to plan a vacation or buy me gifts. Now, I buy my own gifts and even plan my own birthdays. It doesn''t bother me, he shows his love in other ways like bringing me home my favorite candy bar and telling me how much he loves me out of his own words instead of Hallmarks.

 

[princesss]

Honey, some guys just don't get it. For Valentine's Day, I told my BF exactly what I wanted, because hints go way over his head. For the four weeks before V-Day, I would remind him about what I wanted. We are (finally) going on our V-Day date on Thursday.

But you know what? T-Gal is exactly right. So, your guy isn't romantic. If you want dinner, make the reservation. Order yourself the flowers. And then look for the small ways your BF shows his love. My BF puts my food in front of his in the fridge, and has daily "V-8 hour" so he can make sure that I get something decently healthy. That's how he shows me he loves me. We've had to talk about how each of us shows love so that the other one recognizes it. Maybe you and your BF just need to talk about *how* each of you shows your love, so that even if you don't always get what's important to you, you can see when he does show you his love. (I have noticed the guys I know tend to show their love in every day things, while the girls I know need bigger gestures every once in a while.)

Best of luck with this.

 

[LuckiestGuyonEarth]

Tgal has great insight.

People are almost always not going to change and to try will likely cause problems. On the flip side, you are always going to want something romantic, at the very least a card on a birthday, that is really weak(of him to not get one). So your options are to accept it, love him for all the other qualities/reasons you have been together for 3 years or, go and tap the other 50 million guys available to you in the US. One of them has to be a romantic type of guy, but then he may not have other qualities you want.

Texting someone and saying "don''t talk to me till you want to act like a boyfriend" is immature, and him actually playing that game and not talking to you also is immature. The fact that you "caved" and apologized for reasonably expecting him to do something nice is stupid in my opinion. What you prob want to do is sit down and have a discussion with him about it, how it made you feel and see what he says. If he truly doesn''t care or have remorse about it, then that is your call.

Those are obviously just my opinions, just going off what was originally posted. Good luck.

Ben

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 3/25/2008 7:45:46 PM
Author: Smurfysmiles
well it seems like you always write that way for every vent you read. i mean , would it kill you to just sympathize instead? thank goodness my real life friends are getting me out of the apt for awhile so that we can do just that

I *do* sympathize. And I don''t write that way for "every" vent I read...maybe *your* vents because they kind of make me raise an eyebrow. I obviously have a guy who is more like yours than a romantic, so I do feel for you. I think that you are and I different in our mindsets, and that is probably the main difference. But different strokes for different folks. Some people don''t like hearing anything but "poor you", I guess.

If you want me to sympathize, I''ll say this: Your guy sounds darn insensitive if he can''t even make an effort when you try to talk to him. While I think women can be better at appreciating men, yours sounds like he doesn''t appreciate you at all. So you''re entitled to be upset...go, whoop it up with your girfriends and forget about him for a night.

 

[rizz]

I totally agree with Tgal...I have to make the romantic moves for things I consider romantic, but I must admit I give him A LOT of credit for the other loving things he does.

The behaviour analysts in me says...reinforce highly on good behaviours so the probability of them occuring again increases

 

[Kayakqueen83]

Smurfy,

I really think that TGal''s post makes a lot of sense and although it''s from a different position then I think you want right now, I think it may help you in your relationship to look at the positives in regards to your boyfriend instead of the negatives. I know you are angry but nasty text messages aren''t going to help the situation with your relationship and I think everyone is just trying to help you to see a possible (as we don''t know him) positive side of your sometimes insensitive boyfriend.

Now by all means if your boyfriend has absolutely no consideration over your feelings on the issue (like you crying in the car and him still not making an effort to appease you) Well, then I think there is more problems then just an unromantic boyfriend.

In any case I think that it was a good idea for you to apologize to your boyfriend after the text message because I think it didn''t help the situation at all other then to hurt him like he hurt you.

I think it''s good that you are going out with your girlfriends to release some steam. Sometimes you just have one of those days. I hope you feel better soon!

 

[Smurfysmiles]

to clear things up i do recognize the nice things he does for me
but he knows that anniversaries are a big deal to me which is why i got so upset
i talked to him and told him that i was upset that he just seemed to blow it off completely
he is still not talking to me but hopefully it is because he is contemplating what i said and not bc he is pissed off

 

[LostSapphire]

Hello SmurfySmiles.

I am sorry you are unhappy. I hope you can look at the situation from a different perspective, and learn to love his way of showing you he loves you. If that is a dealbreaker for you, that's for you to figure out I guess.

Here's an example of a totally unromantic gesture (Like T-Gal, we don't do anniversary, birthday, valentines stuff either, even after being together 25+ years)....

BUT, once, about 5 years ago, I actually received a gift for V-Day: my DH bought me a bit of land....now, he bought it as part of a deal for another parcel abutting to our house, but, he bought this little 6 foot wide strip x 120 ft long for me alongside our property.

I thought that was TOTALLY stupid and told him could he not JUST ONCE get me flowers, chocolates and a card like "normal guys" do????

Fast Forward 5 years: we then had a neighbour building next to us. (we're out in the country so that is a big deal). What did he do for my birthday last year? He PLANTED MATURE TREES ALONG THAT STRIP OF LAND!!!

So now I don't feel I've lost my privacy from the new neighbour, and every morning when I pull out of the garage for work I drive along my little strip of land with these gorgeous trees...

WHAT AN AMAZING, INSIGHTFUL, FORWARD THINKING GUY. I love him to death for what he did for me.....who cares about chocolates, cards and flowers!

ETA: I hope you find your happiness.

 

[icekid]

Smurfy- I totally agree with Tgal. My husband is a complete sweetheart, in most ways. However, he is not great at the sometimes silly romantic things. but he does at least give it a try once in a while because he knows I appreciate it. For example: when he proposed, I knew exactly how & when he was going to ask. I found this a little disappointing. At the same time, it is endearing too because it is SO HIM. He just cannot keep a secret from me, because he is so excited about whatever it is that he''s done for me. Sometimes we forget how much the litte things count! It makes me teary to think about the small things he does for me everyday, b/c most of the time I take them for granted. I try not to... but I get used to being treated like a princess!

And I really wonder what exactly draws you to your boyfriend. You''ve told him that anniversaries, holiday, etc are important for you and he cannot even get it together to get you a card? Really? And he says something that he must know will hurt you (re: anniversary) and then blows it off when you''re upset about it? In addition to not romantic, your guy seems to be downright callous toward your feelings and that is not a quality I would personally seek out.

I hope some time away with your girlfriends is just what you need!

 

[moderatelypoorstudent]

Wow, there are so many ideas here it''s almost overwhelming.

Sorry to hear things aren''t going great with your boyfriend, Smurfy. I think there are a lot of different ways to look at your situation.

I really get the whole: but I said it so many times, how could he not know?!! But sometimes, I realize that the MORE I say something... the less people are listening to me. Because if your mom came in your room everday and yelled at you to clean it up, eventually you would just get used to the nagging and it wouldn''t be effective. Not that we''re all children, but we are all able to be conditioned to certain things.

The other idea that crossed my mind here is productive fighting. I think sometimes, at least I used to do this -- don''t know about anyone else, I would get so angry in an argument that I behaved like I was out to get him, and HE was out to get ME. Instead of saying things like: I''d be so much happier if you did X. I''d say something more like: you never do X for me because you''re uncaring/stupid/fat/ugly (insert adjective). And ... it got us nowhere.

I don''t mean to sound like some sort of a manipulative psychologist, but it can be so helpful to approach an argument as though you are trying to bargain in some ways for what you want. And it''s important that your partner recognize the importance of helping you get what you want in order to be happy.

I agree with Tgal in the sense that, men show their love differently and we should appreciate all those aspects of love they show us as well. At the same time though, I think there are instances where you really need them to express something to you, your way. And if they see and understand that, just knowing how important it is to you should be enough for them to put forth some effort.

So make sure your SO understands that this one night is important to you. But also, concede a couple of things: I mean truth be told, if 364 days out of the year you two are a wonderfully happy couple... going out on the town and waving a big banner declaring so for that 365th day doesn''t actually make you a happier couple, right? So the anniversary is really just a symbol for all the SUBSTANCE that makes up your relationship, and I think it goes a long way to at least tell him you recognize it''s just a symbol.

I hope that helps.

 

[Smurfysmiles]

i know the ways he shows his love (i already said this once)
the point i am trying to get across to him is that our anniversary is important to me and i would like him to see it the same way. i told him this and am still getting the silent treatment.

 

[moderatelypoorstudent]

Hi Smurfy,
I didn''t mean to imply that you don''t know the other ways in which he expresses his love... I actually mean something that I think sounds silly but it really works:

When my BF remembers to pick up his socks off the floor: I say: Aww, sweetie!!! You cleaned up after yourself, doesn''t the house look nice now? I know he isn''t five... but somehow, men behave better with positive reinforcement, I think we all do. I think what I really mean is: reward all positive behavior, even if by your standards, it''s just expected. I mean... before I lived with my SO... I assumed all people picked their own socks off the floor and put them in laundry baskets, right?

And I agree that in an ideal world: he would see your anniversary as actually BEING IMPORTANT to him too.
But if he isn''t that type of guy, perhaps you could be satisfied with: I''ll make an effort, just because it''s important to YOU.
I hope the two of you can talk it out because I think the silent treatment thing sorta sucks!!

This reminds me of a very silly story of mine (feel free not to read): the 1st year we could actually spend Valentine''s together, my SO was on call. And for some reason, I nearly threw a fit that we wouldn''t be able to spend the actual day together. (As a resident, he''s in by 6 am and not out till the next day at 11am) I had a very poor understanding of how impossible it was to switch call. Anyway, long story short: he made the day before Valentine''s a big celebration with candles and he cooked dinner. A couple valentine''s later, I told him that it wasn''t even important to me anymore and I knew he was just doing all this extra work because I thought it was such a big deal.

And when he asked me why we didn''t have to do Valentine''s day anymore, I said: well, now that I realize that you''d do it for me, even if you think it''s stupid, just because I care about it... well... that says it all, doesn''t it? The day is irrelevant now. I could pick any day of the year and if it was so important to me, you''d make something happen. Just knowing that, was enough.

 

[CNOS128]

ModeratelyPoorStudent -- positive reinforcement is absolutely vital. Maybe it''s because I used to teach special ed, or something, but it''s second nature to me to reinforce good behaviors with praise and even a little affection... "Oh, honey, look how you cleaned all your beard hair out of the sink! It''s lovely!"

Smurfy -- it REALLY bothers me that your BF has decided not to speak to you. I just don''t think this is an okay reaction, even though you told him not to talk to you until XYZ. Maybe this is the custom in your relationship, so I don''t want to tell you what''s appropriate and what''s not... but it''s obviously not all right with you, either. I do sympathize with you, but advise you to proceed with caution. You deserve to be in a relationship where you can speak to each other openly and honestly about your feelings and not be shunned by your partner because of it. Don''t you think?

 

[FrekeChild]

I consider it a seriously romantic gesture from BF if he doesn't complain about where I want to go eat. I told him this and he laughed, because he knows its true.

He remembers my birthday, Valentines Day, and our anniversary but it's because: I start talking about my birthday at least a month in advance and I plan my own thing, everyone else celebrates valentines day and reminds him about it, and our anniversary falls on Cinco de Mayo. He told me he wanted to get married on a date like 8.8.08 so he wouldn't forget it. He's just goofy like that.

But its like choro said, he gives me: praise, affection, assistance, attention and support. I remind occasionally him when I need romance, and I am always rewarded.

Take a deep breath and relax. Go out with your girls. Sometimes we need to get away from men just because.

{{hugs}}

P.S. I'm having Girls Night Out for my birthday (28 days!) because I think the girls in my life (all in serious relationships, engaged, or married could use a night out and away from our men.

ETA: TheBigT- LMAO at the bear hair comment!!!

 

[KimberlyH]

If he doesn't get it now, he probably never will. And no, it's not because "Men are horrible" (I know you didn't say this, smurfy, but geez I hate this line of thinking, it's just plain ridiculous), it's because his priorities are not the same as yours. And now you are playing games with one another (text messages, silent treatment) instead of treating each other as equal partners in a relationship who both have needs and should be working towards compromise (dinner out on a different night?). Is it all your fault, smurfy? Nope. Should he make a small amount of effort because you've expressed how much it matters to you? Sure. But he's who you picked, and he's shown you repeatedly, that he just isn't going to, at least that's what you're telling us. Accepting that now will make your life a whole lot easier and more pleasant for both of you, especially if you plan on marrying the guy.

 

[princesss]

Smurfy, I think KimberlyH has hit on what I was trying to say in my original post. He's not going to think anniversaries are important. He's really not. He may hear that they're important to you, but not get why, so he ignores it. He may end up getting you a card. He may not. What it comes down to, is you've got to know the little ways he shows love because you've got to know if you're okay with them or not. (ETA: Just to clarify, I know you said you know the ways he shows love, and I'm not trying to say you don't. I'm just saying it's important that you know those because...) You have to know if, in 10 years, you're going to be okay if he still doesn't care much about anniversaries. If the other ways he shows his love are enough, then good. If not, that's something you seriously need to take into consideration. You also have to decide if somebody who gives you the silent treatment because you got upset when you felt your emotional needs were being ignored is somebody you want to marry. I'm sure he's a great guy 99% of the time, but I really think it's whether you can handle that 1% (in this case, the silent treatment and him not making an effort for anniversaries) that makes or breaks the relationship.

 

[bee*]

ditto everything that TGal said. D is about as romantic as an old boot-seriously-it just doesn't cross his mind to do things (although I'll give him credit for his proposal!). It took me so long to figure out that he wasn't going to change. D and I work all our anniversaries and all of the special days usually. His way of thinking is not to buy gifts, he'd much rather make something for me, or take Amber for a walk, which to me is one of the nicest things he can do (I'm crazy about my dog!). He encourages me to buy expensive shoes and always loves when I wear them out. Not romantic things per se, but I love them. I think for you to be happy, the games have got to stop. As others have said, he's who you picked and chances are, he's not going to change. It's immature that he is not talking to you after you've apologised also. A bit sit down is in order to work out everything cos the way things are at the moment, neither of you seem happy.

 

[JAMSRING]

I also HIGHLY suggest the love launguage books. I thought it would be stupid, but it made so much sense. MY fiance and I are pretty much the same love language but the book really helped me understand my family and friends. Gifts are not that important to me. I am a last min shopper for friends,etc. However I have a friend who gifts is her total love launguage. she spends hours picking out something and sending it to me. I now take the time to send her stuff even though its a pointless to me because I know it will mean the world to her. I am all about quality time. that is why my previous long term relationship did not work out. He was a workaholic. He bought me tons of stuff but that meant little to me. The books have a quiz you can take to find out your laungages.

 

[Delster]

Smurfy I was thinking about this thread last night and how you said TGal kicked you when you were down. Honestly I think her advice is really good and it really is meant in the best way. She’s not kicking you, she is trying to help. If your girlfriends read this thread I am sure they would say the advice given was well meant.

Please, do have a think about the way you and your BF handle disagreements. I say this because you remind me of myself before I met BF. When we first started going out, if we had a disagreement I’d snipe at him and then I’d sulk and refuse to talk until he grovelled (yes, grovelled, I really was that bad). BF just ignored all my bad behaviour and continued on as normal. It was a shock to the system at first but I needed to learn to fight fair. I learned the nasty fighting from my Mam, who has done it for a lifetime and has no intention of ever changing. And it’s horrible to live with.

Please know that I’m not attacking you, it’s just that I notice some elements of my past bad behaviour in both you and your BF as you’ve described the argument. My relationship is a thousand times better since I re-evaluated how I fight and I just think it might be worth thinking about.

I also agree with all the posters who said you need to evaluate whether you want to be with someone who disregarded you when you explained that these particular days are important to you and you would like them marked. But I also think you need to be sure that the conversations you’re having about these issues are calm and gentle ones, where both of you are heard loud and clear, before you can know for sure that he is disregarding your needs. Of course, you should disregard me if the past discussions were clam and gentle ones!

You seem like a lovely warm and caring person. That really shines through particularly in your posts about your Mom (and I hope she’s doing well). I hope you had a good time out with your girl pals last night and that it helped to let off some steam. And I genuinely hope you can sort this out with your BF.

 

[sandia_rose]

I''m coming to this thread really late (scrolling down at all the replies, I''m thinking, "Dang! Do you gals never sleep?" Hee hee.)

First off, no, you''re not insane at all. Not knowing your situation, I would say that if
a) he''s not a police officer or medical professional that MUST appear for work when asked or b) that he''s not out of vacation time, on probation at work or some other reason where he has to show up or get fired, then yes I would be livid. Beyond livid.

This happened to me this past year on my birthday. My BF, as most of you know, is in a band. My birthday almost never has fallen on a weekend, and this past year, my birthday weekend fell on a weekend where my son was scheduled to be with his father. So, I had all weekend to do whatever - go on a long weekend, go somewhere fabulous like NYC, stay out all night without having to be hoe early for kids, etc. I told my BF for MONTHS in advance that I wanted to do something special for my birthday, because it''d been a hard year and I needed to cut loose. I thought, telling him 20-30 times that I wanted to do something would cement it in his mind. NOT. A couple weeks later, he asked me to update the website calendar for his band gigs (I''m their webmaster). And I noticed on the scrawled list that he gave me that he scheduled a gig on September 29, which was the Saturday before my birthday. I HIT THE ROOF.

He wouldn''t cancel the gig, and I hit the roof AGAIN. Wouldn''t talk to him for almost a week. His rationale was, "Well, it''s a paying gig and I had to try like h*ll to get into this club." Well, in asking his keyboard player how much the gig was worth....well, each guy wouldn''t even make $200. I told him that if playing a single gig meant more to him than my birthday, then I was out of here. Another several days, no contact.

Eventually, he apologized and told me that he made the gig without a calendar in his hand, and he forgot my birthday. And he did make up for it the next kid-less weekend. But I told him that if anything remotely happened like that again, that I would be gone.

This might sound immmature and harsh, but in my viewpoint, the little things mean a lot, and if you ignore the little things, the big ones will follow soonafter.

Having said that, my advice would be to cool down and talk it out with him when you''ve cooled off.

Bridget in COnnecticut.

 

[CrookedRock]

Date: 3/26/2008 8:22:50 AM
Author: Delster

Smurfy I was thinking about this thread last night and how you said TGal kicked you when you were down. Honestly I think her advice is really good and it really is meant in the best way. She’s not kicking you, she is trying to help. If your girlfriends read this thread I am sure they would say the advice given was well meant.

Please, do have a think about the way you and your BF handle disagreements. I say this because you remind me of myself before I met BF. When we first started going out, if we had a disagreement I’d snipe at him and then I’d sulk and refuse to talk until he grovelled (yes, grovelled, I really was that bad). BF just ignored all my bad behaviour and continued on as normal. It was a shock to the system at first but I needed to learn to fight fair. I learned the nasty fighting from my Mam, who has done it for a lifetime and has no intention of ever changing. And it’s horrible to live with.

Please know that I’m not attacking you, it’s just that I notice some elements of my past bad behaviour in both you and your BF as you’ve described the argument. My relationship is a thousand times better since I re-evaluated how I fight and I just think it might be worth thinking about.

Delster, you read my mind. I thought about this last night and this morning trying to think what to say as well. I too believe that TGal was trying to help with her best intentions, but I do understand that when you are angry it is hard to step aside and see another view of the situation.

I also had a flashback to how my bf and I used to be. We have been together almost 8 years, but given that we started dating when I was 17, him 20, we have had our ups and downs to say the least. We totally used to fight like this too, and when friends and family told me that it was not ok to fight in a such a manner I wanted to hear no part of it as I thought they were being jaded and not understanding of where I was coming from.
My point: I think that we developed bad habits when it came to fighting, and mostly bc of our ages. (Smury I think we are about the same age, so this is not a hit on you, trust me) And honestly it was much more me not fighting fairly than him. It actually took us breaking up and me moving across the country and hardly speaking for us to grow up. And that''s exactly what I did. I grew up! We were able to get rid of our bad habits and come back to each other with a new more positive outlook on relationships. I even dated a much older guy who made me realize that if I didn''t grow up I would end up playing these games like he was in my 40''s. And let me tell ya... Not so cool!
Another thing I had to get across to my bf was that no matter what the feeling is that I am having, it is valid bc I have it. And bc it''s valid he has to acknowledge it, and vice versa. This has been very awakening for both of us, and we don''t fight about how one another feels anymore, we discuss it. And thank god for that, bc we would have never made it this long had we not put that rule in place.
I can tell you that moving away and being without my bf was by far the hardest thing I have yet to do, but I would not change a thing about it. I am not suggesting you move away or even break up, but I do think for your own happiness you have to get your point across and he has to respect it whether or not he agrees, he still needs to respest. Have a sit down, a heart to heart, whatever it takes to get the problems out now... Bc I can promise you that you are heading down the same road I did, and you will soon start to resent him for these things, and it will only get worse. He sounds like he has a big heart, and he must to be with you bc we have all seen how sweet you are. Do yourself this favor, bc in the end you have to be happy too!!
Hugs to you girlie, I really do sympathize with you!

 

[Delster]

CrookedRock, I just pulled out these two bits of your excellent post cos they in particular hit home for me so much:

Date: 3/26/2008 8:52:46 AM
Author: CrookedRock
I even dated a much older guy who made me realize that if I didn't grow up I would end up playing these games like he was in my 40's. And let me tell ya... Not so cool!

Another thing I had to get across to my bf was that no matter what the feeling is that I am having, it is valid bc I have it. And bc it's valid he has to acknowledge it, and vice versa. This has been very awakening for both of us, and we don't fight about how one another feels anymore, we discuss it. And thank god for that, bc we would have never made it this long had we not put that rule in place.

The first sentence because it reminds me of my parents

And the second because I agree that recognising the validity of feelings is super important. Smurfy I would be so hurt too if my feelings were disregarded. Your feelings are your feelings and they are valid.

 

[Patiently_Waiting]

Date: 3/25/2008 7:11:32 PM
Author: TravelingGal

But TGuy doesn''t let me carry groceries in case I strain myself. He calls me everyday to let me know he''s on his way home from work. He likes me to come hang out with him, even if it''s with the boys. Is it romantic? Not in the traditional sense, no. But I do love that he THINKS of me even in those little things. Sometimes women are so fixated on the things for show, they don''t stop and notice the things that really come from the heart.

IAWTC 1000%! In the two years my boyfriend and I have been dating, I''ve only gotten a flower once - and it was one he''d picked outside of his house. I know he''s not the flowers type and not romantic in the tradional sense, but it''s all the little things he does for me that mean so much and show me how much he cares.

 

[Miscka]

I haven''t read all the responses (I did skim them) but I just want to say that Tgal your first post was so insightful! I really never thought about things that way. Thanks for making me look at things a little differently. I love PS. Now, that being said Smurfy I do see where you are coming from. I think that you have a right to feel like anniversaries are important to you, and to want to celebrate them. But, you have to ask yourself, is he going to ever "get" this? Or will you be upset every year? Is it negotiable to you? Can you live with it not being a big deal? Its all about what you are comfortable with.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 3/25/2008 10:41:02 PM
Author: Smurfysmiles
i know the ways he shows his love (i already said this once)
the point i am trying to get across to him is that our anniversary is important to me and i would like him to see it the same way. i told him this and am still getting the silent treatment.

And the point nearly everyone else is making is that he may not EVER see it the same way...so can you live with this?

What about if he just doesn''t care about annivesaries and he would like you to understand that it''s just another day? Could you see it the same way?

I was thinking about this last night and I want to say I am the last person to discourage having a romantic, exciting, relationship. We had a girl''s night recently where quite a few of my friends were husband-bashing. One was pissed off that her husband hopped over to Ben Bridge and bought her jewelry for every single occasion because they could not afford it and she wished he''d just do something that wasn''t so "easy" and obvious, plus she ended up paying anyway because he puts things on a payment plan. The others were saying "at least" she *got* something, because they never got squat. Then finally one of my friends said "you all just expect too much...I just gave up on my husband and I am a lot happier now. I don''t bother looking to him for anything. In fact, he still owes me money for the birthday present I bought for myself on his behalf."

All of these scenarios just made me a bit sad...but the last one especially (even though I laughed at her bday present line). I don''t ever want to "give up" on TGuy. I am not saying anniversaries AREN''T important, or that they shouldn''t be celebrated, but maybe the mindset of how it happens might have to be adjusted?

So maybe change your strategy. I don''t know exactly how to advise on that front because it seems you do tell him what''s on your mind. It''s just that sometimes even though we feel like we are "communicating" in a fair and loving way, all men hear is an "attack" and another thing they just can''t do right. I know TGuy is often like that.

 

[Smurfysmiles]

update

we are back on good terms. this is really only the 3rd real fight so and i have had in our 3 years (well almost) of dating. normally we just tell each other straight up but if one of us is really irked off we go all out. i read once that a lot of couples pick fights to add passion into their relationship, i dunno if thats true or not but definitely could have been the case as well because we had fallen into a dull kind of routine with us, usually when we fight that is what has happened.
also, so read me completely wrong, i still dont know how he got this out of what i said (ok maybe i do and i totally shouldn''t have said it because i was a bigtime jerk)...i told him "dont speak to me until you are ready to act like a boyfriend" which he took to mean "i want to break up with you" hence him not speaking to me for two days until i called him out on it. after lots of crying and lots of apologizing we are back to our old selves. we both got everything we had to say out of our systems and cried and then ordered pizza because we had both been living off a loaf of bread and butter and a jar of kool-aid for 3 days straight and its also true when they say makeup sex is the best kind.
soooooooooooooooooooooo with all that said...im gonna go eat some leftover pizza.