Why set a deadline?

[Maria D]

Date: 11/8/2006 9:24:17 PM
Author: Julian
If the woman isn't fought hard for, would he treasure her like a precious prize he has won from the heavens? Knights slayed dragons in fairytales. They climbed towers for princesses. They had to demonstrate huge feats of courage and devotion to win the lady's hand.

I know times are different now, but why should you change just because times have changed (for the worse, I might add)?

ETA: Although, also in fairytales... some ladies in waiting did just wait and wait and wait in their towers! LOL. But at least the poor knight was just trying to complete his quest for her hand! She knew it was coming, just after he slayed that darn dragon.

Ok, I know you're just waxing poetic, but therein lies the paradox! We've got "woman of the 21st century" entering into the relationship. She is educated, has a career, works hard for what she wants and deserves, expects to be a full partner. But when it comes to the most important decision of the entire relationship, she reverts back to a fairytale princess that her prince charming must slay the dragon and fight for -- and she's got no say or control on long it takes him to do it. That's not her job; she has to hole up in the tower! too funny.

I, for one, don't think times have changed for the worse. If women relate to being fairytale princesses, I don't think things have changed enough!

 

[KimberlyH]

I just have a horrid fear that boyfriends who don''t care can turn into husbands who don''t care -- apathetic, non-communicative and eventually someone who will take his wife for granted.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner! That is exactly my point, Julian. Why do women want someone they must cajole and convince into marriage? That they must forgive for ignorig promises that have been made. Being alone really isn''t so bad. You get to sleep in the middle of the bed. You get to eat ice cream at midnight. You get total control of the remote. You don''t have to arrange your plans around anyone else''s. Your holiday''s are spent argument free, your family wins every time! And on and on....

Relationships are hard work, they are wonderful and rewarding and comforting and satisfying, but they are hard work. And if the pre-engagement period is an indication of what one is headed for and my guy couldn''t follow through on the most basic of promises (i.e. I will propose by said date and I know you''ll leave if I don''t) then I would have to say most rational human beings would say "no thanks to that." Because it''s indicitave of a life sentence of always having to work too hard to get what one needs.

 

[Julian]

Date: 11/8/2006 10:40:10 PM
Author: Maria D

Date: 11/8/2006 9:24:17 PM
Author: Julian
If the woman isn''t fought hard for, would he treasure her like a precious prize he has won from the heavens? Knights slayed dragons in fairytales. They climbed towers for princesses. They had to demonstrate huge feats of courage and devotion to win the lady''s hand.

I know times are different now, but why should you change just because times have changed (for the worse, I might add)?

ETA: Although, also in fairytales... some ladies in waiting did just wait and wait and wait in their towers! LOL. But at least the poor knight was just trying to complete his quest for her hand! She knew it was coming, just after he slayed that darn dragon.

Ok, I know you''re just waxing poetic, but therein lies the paradox! We''ve got ''woman of the 21st century'' entering into the relationship. She is educated, has a career, works hard for what she wants and deserves, expects to be a full partner. But when it comes to the most important decision of the entire relationship, she reverts back to a fairytale princess that her prince charming must slay the dragon and fight for -- and she''s got no say or control on long it takes him to do it. That''s not her job; she has to hole up in the tower! too funny.

I, for one, don''t think times have changed for the worse. If women relate to being fairytale princesses, I don''t think things have changed enough!

Right, Maria! But I think women CAN have it all. Having a man who would lay down his life for you doesn''t preclude the woman from having a kicka$$ career & full partnership. I don''t think they are mutually exclusive.

But you are right. If the woman wants to take the lead in some cases, I don''t see why not. But it seems rare. I actually do think men and women are different. I have never seen a good husband who was cajoled into marriage but I sure have seen many amazing husbands who pulled out all the stops to marry the woman they love. You are right in that they must both want to marry...badly enough to remember it & lean on the love when times get rough.

 

[galeteia]

Interesting thread.

I admit that I am also curious about what happens in the aftermath of an ignored timeline/deadline. I''m not one to make idle threats, and I have set deadlines for FF, but they were all related to immigration paperwork issues, so they were deadlines we both could see and were in agreement on. While he is the ''calm'' one in our relationship, I''m the one who lights a fire under his behind.

That kind of timeline I can understand. While the circumstances of my relationship are so specific as to make comparison impossible, I did have a similar ''or else'' deadline that I gave FF, with the ''else'' undefined even in my own mind. We needed his parents'' pledge to support us financially when it came to the immigration fees (hidden and otherwise) so he had to tell his parents we wanted to get married, and ask them for money.

Neither of us were happy about having to doing so. He really had to take his boys out of his pocket and put them on. We both knew this wasn''t going to be easy. He hemmed, he hawed, he dragged his heels until I gave him until ''the end of the week''. He did ask me to give him solid deadlines about things, because he''d need them. That made me uncomfortable, but if that was what it took... At 11:45 that Sunday, while visiting them for the weekend, he still hadn''t told them. I was not happy. He quickly realized that when I said ''by the end of the week'' I didn''t mean ''in about a week''.

I was devastated. It may seem like a small issue, but trust in one''s word is a very serious thing to me. I wasn''t willing to marry someone I couldn''t depend on to keep his promises, especially when a point has been made. Luckily, while I was crying on the phone with my mother, he zipped off right then and there, woke his mother up, and got her blessing and promise to ''work'' on his dad.

So when it came right down to it, he stepped up. That''s really what it''s about for me; whether or not he loves you enough to ''step up'' and do what it takes to be with you, whether that is proposing, facing down his family, etc.

I totally agree with what Julian and Kimberly said about a lackluster boyfriend turning into a worse husband. As my mother said, once they''ve ''got'' you and you''re safely married to them, they can stop being on their ''good'' behaviour. I wish more women realized that.

I worry that some women still have this idea that marriage will produce a ''happily ever after'', magically improving their relationships if not their partner himself. Is ''everything will be better after we''re married'' ever true?

 

[janinegirly]

i''m in agreement w/the majority that missed deadlines are signs of trouble to come in a marriage. but i still think each situation is different and it''s not always dire or horrid, but of course, it is a major red flag.
i laughed at kimberly''s reminder of all the good things of being alone. speaking of i was curious of your (kimberly''s) situation? You give a lot of advice and I''m relatively new, so I don''t remember if you''re married or any details. Are things just as you predicted they would be, are there any tensions/issues? I''m just curious...

 

[MustangFan]

Before I felt that my boyfriend never was going to propose in the beginning of our relationship, even though we hadn''t dated that long. I still felt like it was definitely never going to happen, because he wasn''t open to talking about it. When he became open to talking about it, I was more relaxed about the whole thing. Once in awhile I''d get antsy because I knew that he wasn''t looking at stones on his own and I hated to be the one that said ok come on already. Now my ring is much later than I expected in getting it. I was thinking i''ll definitely get it on the 4th of July with all the fireworks, but of course it didn''t happen that way and my boyfriend felt bad. He didn''t think it was going to be so much touble in picking something out. And then he switched jobs after that, he had to wait awhile to make sure he was stable enough to pursue a setting. I''m cool with it, I know it''s coming and don''t want to put pressure on him.

 

[Cailet]

ok I''m coming in kind of late to the whole thing here -
but my $0.02 is - don''t ever say "I''m doing X if you don''t do Y by such and such a time" unless you are planning on following through.

I''m kind of in a similar boat as Mandarine - we talked about marriage for a while, talked about kids, talked about goals -- agreed that this year seemed like a good time to get engaged. Then we would get married "whenever I''m done planning" as my bf says.

If we get to 2007 and we haven''t progressed any further, and there is no discussion or indication of what the hold up is -- or if he says "i''m not ready yet" I would definitely have to sit down and re-evaluate the situation.

 

[janinegirly]

ok, i'm going to be the devil's advocate, and ask if there's really much difference in setting a deadline which the man misses, and discussing a general timeframe which the man misses. IE say (JUST for hypothetical discussion), some of us who are waiting for holiday proposals (since that's all that's left in 2006) are disappointed. Yes, it would be a good idea to reassess, re-discuss things openly with the bf etc. but I'm not so sure that's sooooo different from setting an ultimatum which is missed due to various excuses. It's a softer version, but it's still a case of the man not coming through. I'm only bringing this up b/c it seems like a lot of people are saying "no way" to deadlines but then go onto describe something that's not as iron clad but still sounds awfully similar. Maybe not so much in the way it's presented and agreed to (neither party says If "x" doesn't happen by month, date, 200x, then "y" will happen), but if end result is timeframe not being adhered to, it's still just as much a red flag.
Something for me to think about too, b/c if it doesn't happen by end of 2006, I think I'll have to take some drastic measure.

 

[allycat0303]

Kimberly,

Well I personally couldn''t do a deadline. I think if I was really ready, I''d talk to him about it and see where he was in the whole process. If he wasn''t ready because of financial, school etc., reasons, then I''d wait until that was fixed, and then see where it stood. I don''t know if I''d be able to say "if you don''t by then........" Usually because I''m really strict on keeping my word. If you don''t hold to what you''ve said, then the guy is going to take you seriously the next time. And I do feel (as Dr. Phil said...and I really believe this) marriage is hard enough when BOTH people REALLy want to be in it.

However, I think sometimes guys might need a nudge. Maybe a little time to get used to the idea. So I think open discussions are good. Perhaps the guy isn''t in the same place you are. Although if I was with someone and I was ready, but he wasn''t because of financial, school constraints, I would give myself a kind of MENTAL "ok. when he''s accomplished what he wants, I''m going to see if he starts working on proposal, if not, I''m going to leave" Provided it''s reasonable. BUT I WOULD NEVER SAY IT TO HIM. Because I don''t throw the idea of marriage around lightly. If when he''s done with his stuff he doesn''t start working on it, I''m would take it as a sign, that he''s not that into marrying me. So relationship over. No more discussion, etc. because I personally feel that there are a lot of guys out there in relationships with girls they NEVER intend to marry but string them along with empty promises (and I''m definitely not referring to anyone here) and I don''t think I would like/appreciate a proposal that came because he was *afraid of losing me*

Although I''m not speaking from any experience here. I have to admit, in the last few weeks, I got a "where is this going" and I nearly jumped out the nearest window. Serious talks about the future are a little scary. So I can easily imagine how difficult it must be for a guy when he hears this for the first time. I think love has to do with it, but I think timing is really important too.

 

[Mandarine]

Janine - that would also be a red flag and hence why I get anxious (because even though I'm sure it wouldn't get to this point, there is always something in me that wonders 'what if'...but that's just how I am with everyday life...work, etc). I need to trust him period. But to your point, yes...that would be a huge red flag IMO.

If he came to me now and said "baby, I feel terrible...I know you've been waiting for 2006...but X and Y and I want to do this right". I wouldn't be jumping up and down with happiness...but at least I wouldn't feel as if he let me down or let me go through expecting something that wasn't happenning in the time frame we had discussed. If plans change I'm ok with that...as long as we can talk about them because they are OUR plans...not just his plans.

I guess I just don't see myself ever getting to a point were I need to give ultimatums. I just wouldn't wnat to be with someone that I have to corner in order for him to propose!.

Like Cailet said...I would re-evaluate things with him...to discuss our plans then and as long as I feel comfortable, happy, in a loving, open and honest relationship then I will be there. If it ever doesn't feel that way then it's time for me to move on....no ultimatums needed for me to move on at that point.

M~

ETA: Just clarifying first sentence...

 

[Mara]

i think there are different types of deadlines.

i agree with having a discussion between the two people where they can set a mutual ''deadline'' or a timeline as to the progression of the engagement. i am not a huge fan of ultimatums where they have to do something like propose before XYZ...as i think those can backfire. i think people tend to set deadlines or ultimatums when they feel hopeless, frustrated, and like a date is a form of ''action''. but in reality no one can make someone *act* unless they really want to...so i would focus more efforts on figuring out if that person wants to act or when they might feel comfortable with acting, rather than trying to control the situation by giving a date on when ''action'' has to take place.

for me, it was a mental deadline of ''i need to know that we are both on the same page with where we want to go and i don''t think that 6 months is an unreasonable timeframe for you to tell me that YES i am the woman you''d like to spend the rest of your life with. i don''t require a ring or a proposal or anything other than you saying YES to me in the future.'' and he said ''yes i think that is fair.'' and we didn''t have another discussion bout it. i didn''t want to be nagging him or assuming he wasn''t thinking about it or whatever. and then like some of the other gals, i just would kind of bring it up here or there like ''are you thinking bout our conversation?'' and he''d say ''what conversation''...teasing me of course. i would just laugh and give him the look but that was pretty much it. it surprised me that he was mentally ready within 6 months to propose. i was just hoping for him to say ''yes you are the one i want to be with and i will take the appropriate steps to show that!''

the funniest part is that when he was mentally ready, he was SUPER gung-ho after that. like more than me almost. it was definitely a case of him figuring out what he wanted and then being very at ease with it. but it was getting to that point mentally for him which i''m sure took some doing. but once he was there, he didn''t look back.

in terms of what i would have done if he had not been mentally ready to say yes to me forever in 6 months...i know i would have broken it off. because i am really not the type of gal to stick around and hope and wait for something if it''s unsure it might happen. i have seen way too many other friends do that with mixed results. and i feel like women have to respect themselves and what they want enough to know what they deserve. and realize that if the man they are with does not give them what they need, then that man may not be the right one for them after all. it would have been VERY hard to leave after those 6 months, but if he was waffling at that point, i would have had no choice. also if i had stuck around then i would have lost some respect for myself, because i gave that deadline and gave a big talk about how i wouldn''t wait around, so if i did, then i couldn''t take myself seriously, why would i expect him to.

just some thoughts. of course every relationship and people in it is different, but that is just my take on it. i have never been the type to wait around though, esp when i feel sure about something. so i would not have been happy just waiting and hoping. that''s not me.

 

[JCJD]

Date: 11/8/2006 11:00:07 PM
Author: KimberlyH
I just have a horrid fear that boyfriends who don''t care can turn into husbands who don''t care -- apathetic, non-communicative and eventually someone who will take his wife for granted.



Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner! That is exactly my point, Julian. Why do women want someone they must cajole and convince into marriage? That they must forgive for ignorig promises that have been made. Being alone really isn''t so bad. You get to sleep in the middle of the bed. You get to eat ice cream at midnight. You get total control of the remote. You don''t have to arrange your plans around anyone else''s. Your holiday''s are spent argument free, your family wins every time! And on and on....


Relationships are hard work, they are wonderful and rewarding and comforting and satisfying, but they are hard work. And if the pre-engagement period is an indication of what one is headed for and my guy couldn''t follow through on the most basic of promises (i.e. I will propose by said date and I know you''ll leave if I don''t) then I would have to say most rational human beings would say ''no thanks to that.'' Because it''s indicitave of a life sentence of always having to work too hard to get what one needs.

But if those men miss the deadlines/timelines/ultimatums, do they become husbands? Seems rather like a blessing in disguise.

And as good as single life can be, unfortunately many women simply find their self-worth in their relationships with men and for them, being single can be unacceptable, frightening, and intolerable, even though the alternative to singlehood is being with men who treat them poorly. Some of the women I am friends with who tend to do this were abused as children, so there is a lot more going on than a simple lack of assertiveness in following through. I know this isn''t where this thread was intended to go, but there you have it.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 11/8/2006 11:00:07 PM
Author: KimberlyH
I just have a horrid fear that boyfriends who don''t care can turn into husbands who don''t care -- apathetic, non-communicative and eventually someone who will take his wife for granted.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner! That is exactly my point, Julian. Why do women want someone they must cajole and convince into marriage? That they must forgive for ignorig promises that have been made.

I wonder about this too ... there was a thread on Indiebride I think where a woman was saying her mom told her to make sure she married a man who loved her more than she loved him. Some kind of cultural thing. I obviously don''t agree with THAT but I think it speaks to the same point: you want a man who WANTS to marry you - or else it''ll NEVER work out.

To find out how true this is ... I started a thread in Hangout to poll people who''ve been married over 10 years ... check out the results.

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 11/9/2006 9:11:23 AM
Author: janinegirly
i''m in agreement w/the majority that missed deadlines are signs of trouble to come in a marriage. but i still think each situation is different and it''s not always dire or horrid, but of course, it is a major red flag.
i laughed at kimberly''s reminder of all the good things of being alone. speaking of i was curious of your (kimberly''s) situation? You give a lot of advice and I''m relatively new, so I don''t remember if you''re married or any details. Are things just as you predicted they would be, are there any tensions/issues? I''m just curious...

Let''s see if I can keep this brief so as not to bore you...

I dated several wrong guys for me. One for four years straight out of HS who was just a ton of fun but not at all right for me. I thought we''d get married, instead I moved to finish college and we went our separate ways, thank goodness! My last year in college the guy I was dating proposed to me. I had no idea it was coming and said yes out of shock more than anything. Another not at all right for me guy. I called the wedding off 2 months before wedding bells were supposed to ring. Add another thank goodness to my list! I spent a bit of time focusing on me, lost a bunch of weight, adjusted to life post-college and met someone. He did some evil things that I discovered about 10 months into our relationship. I decided it was time for me to spend some time alone because I was making poor dating choices.

I spent about a year not dating during which I spent a lot of time discovering myself. I learned that being alone was more than not so bad; it was a ton of fun. I developed some amazing friendships, delved into the things I enjoyed doing and just learned to be comfortable in my own skin. I decided that if I never got married that would be more than okay and moved forward with the mindset that it wasn''t necessarily for me.

I met a guy through a friend, he was nice enough but in a bit of a tough spot in his life. We kept it light and fun and just enjoyed each others company. It was nice to have a Saturday night date but get to spend Sunday alone. He popped in and out of my life for a few months and in the mean time I met my now husband. He lived in San Diego and I was in Sacramento, it took a few months of emailing and such before we actually started dating and things grew from there. Eventually we decided to see if we could get along in the real world together so I moved to San Diego. We were engaged within the year. He set a deadline for himself (fall 2005) and never once wavered, and I never doubted he would follow through. We joked about it a lot (I told him my ring finger was lonely, etc.) but there was never a time, once we decided that we were going to become engaged, that I worried he might not follow through. We were married 8 months after he proposed, I am so glad we are. We have an amazing relationship based on mutual respect, trust, honesty, commitment and friendship and I wouldn’t change a thing about it. But if it hadn’t turned out this way, if we had broken up or determined marriage wasn’t for us, than that would have been okay too.

I won’t say I never had moments where I thought I wanted to get married and freaked out a bit because I wasn’t sure he did, but it happened twice, it was never an ongoing issue in our relationship. Both times, we talked it through and I concluded that outside pressures (which were a major factor in my moments. i.e. friends getting married, pressure from mom) should never lead me to desire something we weren’t both ready for (and may have never been). In my heart I had found contentment in just being me sans relationship or partner, so even though I had those rare moments I knew I’d be okay no matter what happened.

My apologies for the lack of brevity.

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 11/9/2006 1:32:27 PM
Author: JCJD

Date: 11/8/2006 11:00:07 PM
Author: KimberlyH
I just have a horrid fear that boyfriends who don''t care can turn into husbands who don''t care -- apathetic, non-communicative and eventually someone who will take his wife for granted.



Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner! That is exactly my point, Julian. Why do women want someone they must cajole and convince into marriage? That they must forgive for ignorig promises that have been made. Being alone really isn''t so bad. You get to sleep in the middle of the bed. You get to eat ice cream at midnight. You get total control of the remote. You don''t have to arrange your plans around anyone else''s. Your holiday''s are spent argument free, your family wins every time! And on and on....


Relationships are hard work, they are wonderful and rewarding and comforting and satisfying, but they are hard work. And if the pre-engagement period is an indication of what one is headed for and my guy couldn''t follow through on the most basic of promises (i.e. I will propose by said date and I know you''ll leave if I don''t) then I would have to say most rational human beings would say ''no thanks to that.'' Because it''s indicitave of a life sentence of always having to work too hard to get what one needs.

But if those men miss the deadlines/timelines/ultimatums, do they become husbands? Seems rather like a blessing in disguise.

And as good as single life can be, unfortunately many women simply find their self-worth in their relationships with men and for them, being single can be unacceptable, frightening, and intolerable, even though the alternative to singlehood is being with men who treat them poorly. Some of the women I am friends with who tend to do this were abused as children, so there is a lot more going on than a simple lack of assertiveness in following through. I know this isn''t where this thread was intended to go, but there you have it.

Unfortunately, sometimes they do. One of my closest friends went through this whole mess of deadlines and waiting and such, he finally gave her a rock and a quicky elopment. They still don''t live together and have the most bizarre and unhealthy relationship you could ever imagine. My heart breaks for her.

 

[diamondglee]

[/quote]

But if those men miss the deadlines/timelines/ultimatums, do they become husbands? Seems rather like a blessing in disguise.

[/quote]

Im a firm believer that a man might miss deadlines with one woman, because there are hidden issues or shes just not the "right" one for him....and very soon ater the breakup he will find a woman HE WANTS to propose to and will do it on his own, and very quickly.

I have seen it time and time again. I have friends that languish in relationships that really go no where despite a lot of discussion, threats, deadlines etc. The woman will peg the man as not abe to commit....and the month after they breakup (or comparitively soon), they have asked the new girl to marry them.

I think a lot of women just dont want to face the fact that he may just not be that into her and the relationship. Communication is great and very neccessary...but actions speak louder than words.

 

[dmbfan]

deadlines, timeframes ultimatums...it doesn''t matter what you call them, will always be difficult to act on them. If we are we someone that you want to take it to the next step and are considering spending the rest of you life with. Is tough to say ok, we are done because you didn''t do anything by this time. Obviously enough time, effort and feelings are invested on this person that calling it quits is not that easy.

I''ll say this based on my own experience that just went through, It was about 8 months from the day that I started asking her if she wanted to spend the rest of her life with me until I made the decision to walk. I didn''t set a deadline. Now I probably waited more that any rational person would have. I believed in what we had, I knew what we could be. She didn''t see it then, but she might realize it later. it shouldn''t be a date or time specific, you need to realize and think on why is not happening. There is a huge difference between having someone that does not want to move forward than with someone that is trying but cant figure out why or what is holding that person up. I went through the last one. I know she loves me and misses my and will question the rest of her life why she couldn''t figure it out (gotten emails the last few days). I just got to a point that I didn''t want to wait any longer. there is no right or wrong answer, there are no specific timeframes. Each relationship is different and its up to each individual to figure when to move on....

thats just my thoughts

 

[firebirdgold]

I find the poll in the hangout to be rather telling! Only 1 out of 23 had to issue a deadline, and all the rest had fi''s who were as eager or more than they were.

There are always exceptions to the rule, but I just don''t believe it''s a good idea to marry a guy you had to strong-arm into the commitment. Both parties should be happy and excited by the prospect!

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 11/9/2006 5:26:47 PM
Author: IndieJones
I find the poll in the hangout to be rather telling! Only 1 out of 23 had to issue a deadline, and all the rest had fi''s who were as eager or more than they were.

There are always exceptions to the rule, but I just don''t believe it''s a good idea to marry a guy you had to strong-arm into the commitment. Both parties should be happy and excited by the prospect!

Ditto.

Great poll, deco, it''s really interesting.

 

[Mandarine]

The poll is interesting, but IMO doesn't really relate to this thread (no offense to anyone).

I think pretty much anyone could have predicted the results of that poll with those questions.

First of all, what girl will honestly say her DH wasn't eager to marry her?. What guy gets engaged, then married and is not eager about it? and what girl will say yes to this?...well...probably not one that will be in a long, happy, loving relationship. Or maybe their DHs were not eagr at *first* and needed a little nudge to get over their fears or whatever it is that is holding them back. Or like Mara mentioned, Greg got on the boat and was maybe even more eager than her once they had their timeline talk. So was in this case Greg eager?...yes he was, absolutely...but as Mara has said before, he needed a little nudge and that was it.

I don't think that question is the same as to which ladis had a timeline with her DH before they got engaged?. Just like you have a general timeline of when you want to buy a house, when you wnat to have kids, etc. Whish is also very different than how many of you needed to give al ultimatum in order for your DHs to propose?.

All different questions...

If I wasn't sure that my BF was honest and loved me...why would I be with him?. This is the problem here....girls that have these deadlines with consequences have them because they're unsecure in that relationship but need an excuse to walk out. Many won't be strong enough and will continue to stay through many missed deadlines simply because they can't see (or don't want to accept) what is right in front of their eyes). We also see time and time again...how many girls stay just because they're scared or don't want to start over with someone else.

Now let's get ready for some Grey's and a little Mc Dreamy

M~

ETA: I do love reading all the stories from that poll!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I did not read this whole thread so I am sorry if I am repeating someone. I didn''t really set a deadline but he did (more to shut me up

). I always KNEW we would get married but actions speak louder than words. Maybe it is hard to believe but even though he gave himself a year, it made me feel calmer to have the deadline. DH and I were together almost 5 1/2 years by the time we got married. I think that is a pretty long courtship (though not as long as some on here). I got frusterated. I got disappointed. I got tired of waiting. I let him know that if his self-imposed deadline came and went that I would be very angry, sad, and concerned for our relationship. I think unless you have been in the same situation you don''t know how hard the waiting really is. When you see people meet after you met and marry before you are proposed too it is only normal to feel jealous and compare your relationship to theirs. I really think my DH got comfortable in our relationship and didn''t see my rush (as if 4 + years is rushing it

). Also he has always had the "peter pan" complex. Sometimes I think he thinks he is still 18. Grown-up stuff sometimes scares him. I know he also wanted it to be special (even to suprise me!) and wanted to be able to buy my dream ring in cash. He met his deadline (a month shy) so I never had to deal with the after math. I know (or think) I would have at least left town for a few days so he knew I was serious and in the end maybe even move out. I cannot even imagine the disappointment of your bf missing a deadline you agreed on. I think sometimes it might be more of a control issue.

His boy time is MUCH slower than my girl time. Even though it was worth the wait I still remember how hard it was. I only wish I found this sight *before* I was engaged. There is SOOOO much support here and I think it is so wonderful. Knowing you are not going through it alone must make it easier.

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 11/9/2006 8:28:59 PM
Author: Mandarine
The poll is interesting, but IMO doesn''t really relate to this thread (no offense to anyone).

I think pretty much anyone could have predicted the results of that poll with those questions.

First of all, what girl will honestly say her DH wasn''t eager to marry her?. What guy gets engaged, then married and is not eager about it? and what girl will say yes to this?...well...probably not one that will be in a long, happy, loving relationship. Or maybe their DHs were not eagr at *first* and needed a little nudge to get over their fears or whatever it is that is holding them back. Or like Mara mentioned, Greg got on the boat and was maybe even more eager than her once they had their timeline talk. So was in this case Greg eager?...yes he was, absolutely...but as Mara has said before, he needed a little nudge and that was it.

I don''t think that question is the same as to which ladis had a timeline with her DH before they got engaged?. Just like you have a general timeline of when you want to buy a house, when you wnat to have kids, etc. Whish is also very different than how many of you needed to give al ultimatum in order for your DHs to propose?.

All different questions...

If I wasn''t sure that my BF was honest and loved me...why would I be with him?. This is the problem here....girls that have these deadlines with consequences have them because they''re unsecure in that relationship but need an excuse to walk out. Many won''t be strong enough and will continue to stay through many missed deadlines simply because they can''t see (or don''t want to accept) what is right in front of their eyes). We also see time and time again...how many girls stay just because they''re scared or don''t want to start over with someone else.

Now let''s get ready for some Grey''s and a little Mc Dreamy

M~

ETA: I do love reading all the stories from that poll!

Hi Mandarine,

I think does relate to this thread in that women who don''t have to push their sig others into engagement seem to be in happier marriages but the poll is very unscientific and you are correct, it''s easy to rewrite history, so to speak, because who wants to admit their husband wasn''t as eager to marry them as they were him (not that anyone is lying when they add themselves to the poll, just that they are more likely to respond).

That being said, I think men who are excited about marriage or content in their decision -- as opposed to be strong armed into popping the question -- are more likely to stay married. That has less to do with setting timeframes and more to do with states of mind. Nudging is different then berating and harping. It''s a very fine line.

And while you can confidently say that your bf loves you and wants to marry you (I know you have your moments, but deep down you know he''s going to come through), a lot of women can''t, that''s part of the obsession, wanting to pin him down. And while she may be successful in the short term, her marriage will be rocky and tumultous, more likely than not. Of course there are no absolutes, but I think that is the case more often than not.

 

[galeteia]

Where is the poll? I can''t seem to find it?

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 11/13/2006 11:24:14 PM
Author: Galateia
Where is the poll? I can''t seem to find it?

Here ''tis
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/married-over-ten-years-twenty.53170/

 

[TravelingGal]

Yeah, it''s not a scientific poll but I am inclined to believe it. When I am forced to clean the house, I tend not to do a good job. I''ve gotta get bitten by the bug!

 

[Mandarine]

I said nothing about the poll being scientific or not...or whether or not I believed it! Of course I believe it...I said it was predictable.

I could never give my BF an ultimatum...if I ever fel like that''s what I needed him to do "in order for him to propose" I wouldn''t. I would simply walk away, heart broken, but I would walk away.

What I mean is the way the questions are phrased, don''t directly directly to this topic in the way we have been discussing it). Because you can have a timeline, a healthy timeline (not a deadline or ultimatum), and that doesn''t mean your BF is not eager.

I agree with what you''re saying Kimberly and agree that the results of the poll are true (I never doubted that!) and have always been one of the first gals here to be against ultimatums or "plans or tricks" to get your BF to propose. Yes, I made the engagement chicken...but more for fun not because I''m looking for magic!...hehehe.

My point is just that there is a difference between a timeline, a mental timeline, a deadline, an ultimatum, etc...

M~

 

[ChargerGrrl]

I kinda skimmed through this, so my apologies if I''m saying the same as someone else (then again, it''s also my POV!)

DH and I didn''t set deadlines or ultimatums. I can honestly say that things just naturally "happened". Yes, we did have conversations to make sure we were on the same page, and had the same timeline going. That was important to me, as I''m 35 and really didn''t want to date for 4-5-6 years. DH is 5 years younger than me, and was actually more eager to settle down and move forward. There were a couple of things that I wanted to take my time with- like moving in together. He wanted it to happen waaay sooner- like once we got engaged in December, and I was OK with doing it just before the wedding. We compromised, and I moved in this past June (we were married in Sept.)

We also kinda went "backwards" with the timeline. I mentioned to him that I wanted to get married in September. He liked the sound of that, and made his proposal plans in line with the goal of getting married that month. His "proposal window" was about 3 months long, and that was when I thought I was going to go nuts! Thank goodness for the BIW forum!

Lastly, I too agree with Mandarine that there is a difference between timelines, deadlines and the rest...

 

[musey]

Maybe some of it has to do with age? For a couple in their late twenties/early thirties, they're both more likely to be ready for marriage itself around the same time, as compared to a couple in their early twenties. A woman at age 21 may be ready for engagement much sooner than a 21-year-old man. Add to that the insecurity that goes hand-in-hand with younger ages, and you get a woman rushing to commit and a man who might not even have it on his mind. Some of those younger guys (esp. students or recent grads who are used to "deadlines") might respond well to being given a nudge in that direction with a "you can take 6 months to figure it out." As anything else though, different people would respond differently.

(Of course none of this is meant to criticize couples in their early twenties--as we are one! Just a thought as to where timelines might have their place).


In our case, it took a few long conversations of "can you see yourself not marrying me"..."no, of course I want to marry you!" for him to realize that, wait a second, I DO want to marry her! haha, if only the conversations had been that concise

Giving him a timeline to figure it out was probably unnecessary, because with by the time I got down to saying "okay, take six months to think about it" he had already made up his mind where we were going.

The point is that at just shy of 22, his mind wasn't in marriage mode, although that was the type of relationship he had fostered... albeit subconsiously. His mind just needed a jump-start to connect the "I love this woman and want to be with her forever" brain cells to the "marriage" brain cells so he'd realize that they go hand-in-hand

Had we not talked about it, he probably wouldn't have thought to get engaged for another two or three years, but since we did, we're shopping for settings for our gorgeous stone tomorrow!

Shoot, I'm so scatterbrained lately, I don't even remember which side I'm on. Timelines=bad for some, good for others. I don't think we can lay a blanket statement over something that's so different for every couple. That said, if I had given him six months to propose and he'd taken 5 months and 30 days then did it... I'd probably be nervous. But that's just me!


ETA: Sorry if that was a completely ADD post, at least I knew what I was getting at! I guess exam season can do that to a girl

 

[poptart]

Date: 11/14/2006 7:54:21 PM
Author: musey
Maybe some of it has to do with age? For a couple in their late twenties/early thirties, they''re both more likely to be ready for marriage itself around the same time, as compared to a couple in their early twenties. A woman at age 21 may be ready for engagement much sooner than a 21-year-old man. Add to that the insecurity that goes hand-in-hand with younger ages, and you get a woman rushing to commit and a man who might not even have it on his mind. Some of those younger guys (esp. students or recent grads who are used to ''deadlines'') might respond well to being given a nudge in that direction with a ''you can take 6 months to figure it out.'' As anything else though, different people would respond differently.

(Of course none of this is meant to criticize couples in their early twenties--as we are one! Just a thought as to where timelines might have their place).

On this point I would have to disagree. Both my husband and I are 20, going on 21, and I have a few good friends.... off the top of my head, six couples, who are the same age and are already married or are engaged to be married. I think age has nothing to do with it, but rather maturity and upbringing. As for deadlines, I don''t agree with them, and timelines I understand, as long as each person WANTS a timeline. Just my thoughts on it.

*M*

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 11/14/2006 7:54:21 PM
Author: musey
Maybe some of it has to do with age? For a couple in their late twenties/early thirties, they''re both more likely to be ready for marriage itself around the same time, as compared to a couple in their early twenties. A woman at age 21 may be ready for engagement much sooner than a 21-year-old man. Add to that the insecurity that goes hand-in-hand with younger ages, and you get a woman rushing to commit and a man who might not even have it on his mind. Some of those younger guys (esp. students or recent grads who are used to ''deadlines'') might respond well to being given a nudge in that direction with a ''you can take 6 months to figure it out.'' As anything else though, different people would respond differently.

(Of course none of this is meant to criticize couples in their early twenties--as we are one! Just a thought as to where timelines might have their place).


In our case, it took a few long conversations of ''can you see yourself not marrying me''...''no, of course I want to marry you!'' for him to realize that, wait a second, I DO want to marry her! haha, if only the conversations had been that concise

Giving him a timeline to figure it out was probably unnecessary, because with by the time I got down to saying ''okay, take six months to think about it'' he had already made up his mind where we were going.

The point is that at just shy of 22, his mind wasn''t in marriage mode, although that was the type of relationship he had fostered... albeit subconsiously. His mind just needed a jump-start to connect the ''I love this woman and want to be with her forever'' brain cells to the ''marriage'' brain cells so he''d realize that they go hand-in-hand

Had we not talked about it, he probably wouldn''t have thought to get engaged for another two or three years, but since we did, we''re shopping for settings for our gorgeous stone tomorrow!

Shoot, I''m so scatterbrained lately, I don''t even remember which side I''m on. Timelines=bad for some, good for others. I don''t think we can lay a blanket statement over something that''s so different for every couple. That said, if I had given him six months to propose and he''d taken 5 months and 30 days then did it... I''d probably be nervous. But that''s just me!


ETA: Sorry if that was a completely ADD post, at least I knew what I was getting at! I guess exam season can do that to a girl

No stress, musey, I think we get what you are trying to say!

I''m not on either side, I get that men think differently than women and I don''t believe timelines=doomed marriages at all; I just think couples need to be on the same page, or at least close. So often they aren''t even in the same book and that is where the problems begin.