Would you buy this sapphire?

[mamato3blessings]

There are several cornflower sapphires I'm considering from Tan. However, this one really appeals to me, even though it's not the typical sapphire color. Plus, I love cushions and it seems everything I'm finding is either an oval, pear or round.

It's 2.48ct certified unheated, Si2, 7.9x7.9. The cert is a concern to me though. It's IGI. Are they reputable at all? I could ask her to send it out to GIA and I may. First, I'm curious about what you all think? What would you expect to pay for this stone?

 

[innerkitten]

Is it windowed or is it just the way it looks in the photograph? I like the color too. I'm not sure about IGI. I think some people here have gome with AGL.

 

[innerkitten]

http://www.aglgemlab.com/services/

Almost looks like the same photo cut and pasted in the photos you posted above. Maybe they can provide additional photos.

 

[sapphirering]

On my monitor it looks kind of periwinkle in color. I hope other experts can chime in, but I'm seeing quite a bit of grey myself.

Of course, you need to buy the color that appeals to you most! I think my sapphire is cornflower color in certain lighting so I'll attach it for you for reference. This is taken in my car in noon lighting so the light is quite yellow. In morning and indoor lighting it's a bit more purple.

 

[mamato3blessings]

Thanks for the replies! I have asked about windowing, distinction, etc and am waiting to hear back. I know what you mean, it looks like it could go either way on the widowing.

I was mainly looking for cornflower and I still may go that route, but this is really pleasing to me. I think there's grey too. It reminds me of a denim blue. However, I want to make sure there is value there, as if I ended up selling it, I would want to be able to, kwim?

I pulled up the report you linked to and on my monitor, I don't see the colors being similar. I sure like the one you linked to though! LOL!

If you were considering buying it (and the widowing was minimal), what would you expect to pay for it?

 

[innerkitten]

Thanks for the replies! I have asked about windowing, distinction, etc and am waiting to hear back. I know what you mean, it looks like it could go either way on the widowing.

I was mainly looking for cornflower and I still may go that route, but this is really pleasing to me. I think there's grey too. It reminds me of a denim blue. However, I want to make sure there is value there, as if I ended up selling it, I would want to be able to, kwim?

I pulled up the report you linked to and on my monitor, I don't see the colors being similar. I sure like the one you linked to though! LOL!

If you were considering buying it (and the widowing was minimal), what would you expect to pay for it?

Oh I'm sorry . I wasn't comparing the link and the sapphire you posted. I was just thinking that the two photos you posted looked kind of like they could be the same photo. And sometimes it's hard to get an idea of a stone from just one picture.

The link was just to the type of lab report they have there that might be of interest to you

I have no idea about the pricing. What I would do is compare it to some other stones that look similar. Go onto some gem sapphire sites and have a look around. Simlysapphires, sapphires.ca. thenaturalsapphirecompany, gemfix, ajsgems.

You could start with those.

 

[mamato3blessings]

LOL!!! Oops, I totally missed that one .

Thanks for the advice. I will ask for additional pictures as well.

Thanks for your help!

 

[FrekeChild]

That looks like a medium sized window to me. Do you have any pictures of the stone from the side?

 

[minousbijoux]

Hi Mama:

I have found that in general, Tan's videos are more representative than his photos, so take a close look at the video. I can't guide you at all regarding the resale value of the stone, but there are limitations the stone has which will always be there and consequently hold its value to pricing for a mid quality sapphire, whatever that is at the time. The things I see are the window (and it would be nice to know the dimension of the depth as that will help inform how bad a window it is or whether its just slightly bellied); the SI2 clarity and the lowish saturation level (that's why you see grey). The cool thing is that if you like denim blue and understand there is a grey component, the concern about color might be off the table. As for the clarity, I would ask him about that. I think I see at least one veil type and one healed fracture inclusion in the photo, but its kind of hard to see for sure. I would ask him. Generally, Tan is very good about rating his stones - if he says SI2 is eye clean, then I would trust him on that (some vendors, including one of the goto vendors, has a very loose standard for eye clean, sorta like "if you hold out your hand at arms length in low light and squint, its clean.") I don't know the price of the stone, but I would, however, make sure that there are no surface reaching inclusions or fractures. Also ask about chips. He won't specifically discuss such details unless asked, so if the price is lower than what you expect, I would make sure to ask.

Now as to pricing. IK's idea of comps is a great one. I haven't actually bought a sapphire in a while and, like the rest of us, have noticed the prices going up. It's size (over two carats) and cushion shape (cushions are not as common as ovals but no less sought after) are pluses; it's low level of saturation, window and clarity would generally be detrimental to the value. I would say something in the range of $400 - $800/ct. but I will gladly defer to someone who has more recently been pricing sapphires similar to the one you're looking at. The important thing is whether its a color you love and if it is, then you're in luck because you benefit from liking a color that is slightly out of the mainstream, must have, "cornflower blue" or "royal blue" desire that is so popular.

I hope this helps.

But weren't you looking at two sapphires from somewhere else a while ago, like Africagems or AJS? Did you get one and return it? If so, can you tell us more?

 

[enbcfsobe]

http://www.aglgemlab.com/services/

Almost looks like the same photo cut and pasted in the photos you posted above. Maybe they can provide additional photos.

Yeah -- this is weird! What's the chance that the reflection would be identical in both pics?

 

[mamato3blessings]

Hi Minous!

Thanks so much for all the information!

Sorry, I should have posted the depth! Here are the actual measurements: 7.91 x 7.93 x 4.14 mm

Sorry for the confusion. This particular stone is not from Tan, but I was also considering 2 stones from him. The problem is that one is oval and the other is Portuguese round. I really liked the cornflower color of those two and they are unheated with a cert, but I'd really love a cushion.

This stone is being offered by starruby.in. He has it posted at $840/OBO, so that seems in line with what you were thinking. The stones I'm considering from Tan are $1100 and $1400.

I really don't want a window that is not hidden by setting. That would drive me batty. I'm one of those type A people that love symmetry, good cut and no windowing LOL.

Yes, that was me. I was looking at Simply Sapphires for a sapphire. I tried to ask John many questions about windowing, zoning, color, etc and he answered a couple, but then thought it would be best if I bought it and looked it over in person. Fair enough. I received it and it was way too dark and showed very little of the color showed on the website, even in direct sunlight. So, I was going to go with a much less saturated stone. I contacted him about an exchange and he nicely told me that it would be better that I find a local person to source a stone, so I can see them in person. So, not the best experience, unfortunately.

Thanks for your help!!!

 

[sapphirering]

OP, I just remembered that I purchased a cushion sapphire in the denim color group. I like that color too, but not on my hand unfortunately so I returned it. I bought the sapphire from planetary gems: http://www.planetarygems.com/bluesapphirepage.htm The stone is about halfway down the page on the right hand side, $1,561 price and the title is "Sensuous, alluringly mysterious, certified unheated, Ceylon blue sapphire. A great Saturn gem!"

IRL, I'd say that the stone is a good 20-30% less saturated. It does have a window but I think it would be covered once set (?) Just thought I'd show you the stone in case you're interested. It's definitely a less saturated stone.

 

[Pandora II]

I would be very suspicious of any vendor who was prepared to cut and paste a stone onto a hand like that. The chances of the identical facet reflections etc are probably about 1billion to 1.

I would want a full explanation of what they were up to with that before I would buy anything from them.

 

[minousbijoux]

Thanks for the clarification. Now that I know its not from Tan, I would urge you to do your homework on the vendor. I'm afraid to say I won't be any help in critiquing them as I've never bought from them, but know there are a few with similar names, like starindia, starruby, starjewelry, some of which have been bad experiences for people here. Try toolhaus.org Also, be prepared for the saturation to be even worse in real life - I think that is a very common complaint with that group of sellers. Have you searched starruby.in here to see what pops up?

I am sorry if this seems negative - I'm really trying to help and save you more frustration. Please tell me if this is too much!

 

[distracts]

Starruby.in has definitely been posted about before. People seem to have had varying experiences with them. There are a lot of vendors with similar names so when searching past posts, be sure that you're actually reading about starruby.in.

BTW I looked up that stone on the website and it definitely will have a gaping window. On starruby.in there's a picture of it face-down and you can see that it is way too shallow.

 

[mamato3blessings]

I really appreciate all your help!

Yeah, that's pretty unlikely. I wonder why they would do that? Strange! I've requested more pictures, so I'll see how that goes. They are 12 hours ahead, so it'll be awhile.

Minous, I did search here for that seller and didn't see anything bad. Maybe I need to get more in depth? The have 100% FB. They even post here (though not often). And absolutely post at will! I need all the help I can get!

Sapphirering, thank you! Boy, they sure love those adjectives! I appreciate you taking the time to point me that direction!

What about this http://www.ebay.com/itm/AIGS-CERTIF...0005?pt=Loose_Gemstones_1&hash=item5649ceb135guys? Not really thrilled with the oval, but love the color!

Here is the one from Tan I'm considering. http://odysseygem.com/Gem_Shop/product_info.php?products_id=1746

Distracts, thank you! The window is enough to keep me from buying it. I appreciate you posting!

 

[mamato3blessings]

Oh boy, Gemfix is likely to get me in trouble - and fast!

 

[minousbijoux]

Please be careful about Thaigemstore. I did buy a sapphire from them and it was so photoshopped. They admit they do it and it seems to work for them. But I can almost guarantee that the stone you buy will be much less saturated than their photo. What some here have done, I believe, is buy it, wait until it arrives, complain and explain your returning it (which you'll really intend to do) and your reasoning, and sometimes, he comes through by exchanging it out for a much better quality stone, one more representative of what you see in the photo. I don't know though, it may be a long shot and you may end up having to return it.

I have to go buy a gas grill, but I would be happy to help you look later tonight. Can you tell us what you're looking for in terms of color (for example, pure blue, a little grey, some greenish, violetish), clarity, shape (give us a few you wouldn't mind) and treatment. I think most of the ones you've liked so far have been medium to medium dark, but if I'm mistaken, let us know that too!

 

[minousbijoux]

Oh, one more thing - you know about toolhaus.org, right? I would check feedback for these ebay vendors there, especially as to how stone was compared to how it was represented...

 

[mamato3blessings]

Thanks, Minous! You are very sweet!

I will give it some thought tonight and post tomorrow. I'm not particularly sure what I want. I'm one of those "yes, yes, no" people when I see pictures

And yep, I have toolhaus saved in my favorites. I love that tool!

 

[chrono]

I have not dealt with the first vendor but would never buy from anyone who does cut and paste onto the hand. The purpose of the hand shot is to help the potential customer view the stone with the skin as a reference colour. There is absolutely no point to it if the stone is photoshopped onto the hand. If nothing else, I find that practice deceptive.

I thought I read that Thaigemstore also photoshops their videos? Does anyone else remember anything about this?

Something bugged me about Tan's sapphire so I stared at it until I figured it out. I calculated the depth to be 56%, which is probably why the cut looks a bit chaotic. I guess it is because he put in extra facets to avoid a gaping window in order to conserve as much rough as possible since the original material might have been shallow to begin with. Colour wise, his videos are usually more representative of the colour over his still pictures.

 

[chloeishere]

I purchased a stone from thaigemstore about 16 months ago (giving the timeline as a reference), and the stone in person was dramatically different from the picture and video. Just FYI-- you can probably find my thread with pictures if you click on my name and look for threads started by me. To be fair, I was given a full refund upon return of the stone and offered free shipping on my next purchase from thaigemstore, so it wasn't a completely negative experience... but I don't trust their photos or videos (until I see a truly terrific experience, at least). The vendor responded to my complaint well, but it was an inconvenience that would have been avoided with non-deceptive images and videos.

I think that the Portuguese round from Tan looks a bit windowed in the video, but it might just be a tilt window since it's not visible in the stills. Just my two cents.

The first stone does have a bit of a greyish tone to it, but I rather like steely sapphires... if they will send you an ACTUAL hand shot, vs. another picture photoshopped onto a hand, it might show better the color and the windowing is.

 

[mamato3blessings]

Thank you for your replies! The I asked the seller for more pictures a couple days ago. He replied Friday morning that he would send them when he got to work and he never did. I mentioned that there were some concerns about him photoshopping on PS, so I thought for sure he'll come here to try to resolve that.

Oh well, the search goes on .

 

[harshilzaveri]

Hello Guys,

This is Harshil Zaveri from StarRuby.in replying to some concerns raised in this post.

Re: innerkitten / Chrono

Regarding the photography of the gemstones, sure enough the front photo of the gemstone is the same as that on the hand, however the intention is not to deceive the customer but rather only to indicate the size of the gemstone. The color and clarity of the gemstone it is very accurately shown in the front and side photos and also the clarity/color is described in detail on our website and on the eBay listing (the side picture has not posted been posted in this thread).

Anyone involved in photography of gemstones will know that it is very tricky and almost always the color of the gemstone appears quite different in the photographs than the true color. This is especially true for color change sapphires and/or sapphires with strong violetish hue, Alexandrites and emeralds. The inclusions also get enlarged in pictures due to high degree of magnification. Most of the pictures are shot at 1:1 macro, so many of the inclusions cannot be even seen with the naked eye. Photoshopping is inevitable and any dealer who sells gemstones online would agree with me. I cannot speak for other dealers but in our case, this is not done to mis-represent stones - instead it is done to make sure that the color/clarity of the stone visible in the pictures is matched properly to its actual appearance. We take utmost care to show the stone as it is in the pictures, neither better nor worse. The Front/Side photos on the website are photographed in daylight balanced lighting conditions with proper illumination portraying the light passage accurately within the gemstone showing any windows that may be present and also the actual colour (as best as technology allows).

For hand photos however the situation is a bit different. Photographing a gemstone on the hand neither depicts the true color of the gemstone nor the actual clarity of the gemstone since the reflection of the color of the hand greatly influences the actual color of the stone. For example a ruby would appear much redder on the hand because of the yellowish-red color of the hand itself which adds more warmth to the color of the gemstone. Same holds true for emeralds which would appear more yellowish-green than they actually are. Another big problem when photographing photos on the hand is that the clarity appears much worse than the actual because of the fingerprints which appear as inclusions even in transparent, flawless stones.

This is the reason why we do not use the actual photo of the gemstone on hand and rather cut and paste the front image on the hand. Also, since the front view accurately depicts the stone, we do not consider it unethical to cut and paste the same photo on the hand. We also have a practive of providing additional pictures and/or videos including rotating videos, video on hand and video of stone held by tweezers upon customer's request.

Besides, we also offer a 30-day return policy. So if a customer does not like the stone he can return to us within 30 day period for a refund. It would be illogical for us to misrepresent the stone because a returned stone is lost business for us. We have been selling on eBay since 2005 and have 100% positive feedback record till date. Rarely does any customer have a problem with their purchase because we do our best to depict it like its actual appearance.

Re: mamato3blessings, I intended to send you additional pictures on Friday but our photographer was on sick leave. I will arrange additional pictures on Monday morning.

Best regards,
Harshil Zaveri
StarRuby.in

 

[kenny]

http://www.aglgemlab.com/services/

Almost looks like the same photo cut and pasted in the photos you posted above. Maybe they can provide additional photos.

Yeah -- this is weird! What's the chance that the reflection would be identical in both pics?

I must be missing something.
How can these two be the same pic?
They could not even be the same stone.
The one on the left is more square; the right one is more rectangular.




I've heard Tan referred to as both a man and a woman on this thread.
Anyone know for sure?

What it Tan's website?

 

[T L]

Hello Guys,

This is Harshil Zaveri from StarRuby.in replying to some concerns raised in this post.

Re: innerkitten / Chrono

Regarding the photography of the gemstones, sure enough the front photo of the gemstone is the same as that on the hand, however the intention is not to deceive the customer but rather only to indicate the size of the gemstone. The color and clarity of the gemstone it is very accurately shown in the front and side photos and also the clarity/color is described in detail on our website and on the eBay listing (the side picture has not posted been posted in this thread).

Anyone involved in photography of gemstones will know that it is very tricky and almost always the color of the gemstone appears quite different in the photographs than the true color. This is especially true for color change sapphires and/or sapphires with strong violetish hue, Alexandrites and emeralds. The inclusions also get enlarged in pictures due to high degree of magnification. Most of the pictures are shot at 1:1 macro, so many of the inclusions cannot be even seen with the naked eye. Photoshopping is inevitable and any dealer who sells gemstones online would agree with me. I cannot speak for other dealers but in our case, this is not done to mis-represent stones - instead it is done to make sure that the color/clarity of the stone visible in the pictures is matched properly to its actual appearance. We take utmost care to show the stone as it is in the pictures, neither better nor worse. The Front/Side photos on the website are photographed in daylight balanced lighting conditions with proper illumination portraying the light passage accurately within the gemstone showing any windows that may be present and also the actual colour (as best as technology allows).

For hand photos however the situation is a bit different. Photographing a gemstone on the hand neither depicts the true color of the gemstone nor the actual clarity of the gemstone since the reflection of the color of the hand greatly influences the actual color of the stone. For example a ruby would appear much redder on the hand because of the yellowish-red color of the hand itself which adds more warmth to the color of the gemstone. Same holds true for emeralds which would appear more yellowish-green than they actually are. Another big problem when photographing photos on the hand is that the clarity appears much worse than the actual because of the fingerprints which appear as inclusions even in transparent, flawless stones.

This is the reason why we do not use the actual photo of the gemstone on hand and rather cut and paste the front image on the hand. Also, since the front view accurately depicts the stone, we do not consider it unethical to cut and paste the same photo on the hand. We also have a practive of providing additional pictures and/or videos including rotating videos, video on hand and video of stone held by tweezers upon customer's request.

Besides, we also offer a 30-day return policy. So if a customer does not like the stone he can return to us within 30 day period for a refund. It would be illogical for us to misrepresent the stone because a returned stone is lost business for us. We have been selling on eBay since 2005 and have 100% positive feedback record till date. Rarely does any customer have a problem with their purchase because we do our best to depict it like its actual appearance.

Re: mamato3blessings, I intended to send you additional pictures on Friday but our photographer was on sick leave. I will arrange additional pictures on Monday morning.

Best regards,
Harshil Zaveri
StarRuby.in

Harshil,
Instead of cutting and pasting the stone on the hand to which I think you want to show the size of the gem (???), perhaps maybe putting it next to a coin, like a US penny, might help. Although you have some concerns about the true color of the stone on the hand, I believe many of us do like seeing a true photo of the stone on the hand (I know I do). If you do have a concern with hand photos, then perhaps you should just stick to tweezer photos, or to show general size of the stone, place it next to some common item, like a US penny. Videos are also really helpful, but I know that it's not feasible for some vendors.

Thanks for your response in this regard.

 

[T L]

http://www.aglgemlab.com/services/

Almost looks like the same photo cut and pasted in the photos you posted above. Maybe they can provide additional photos.

Yeah -- this is weird! What's the chance that the reflection would be identical in both pics?

I must be missing something.
How can these two be the same pic?
They could not even be the same stone.
The one on the left is more square; the right one is more rectangular.




I've heard Tan referred to as both a man and a woman on this thread.
Anyone know for sure?

What it Tan's website?

Kenny,
Tan is a popular ebay seller around here.

He has three ebay stores
odysseygem
gemcatalogue (formerly gemburionline)
VVS1gem

and he has a website which he updates rarely.

odysseygem.com

Tan is a man (and that rhymes too).

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

For my personal preference I would not. The stone is too grey from the pics and the cut would bother me. I am not somebody who has high end stones and am no expert, but the stone does not appeal to me. I have had good experiences buying from Tan. The stones I have purchased from him have been as good or better then the pictures.

 

[innerkitten]

Thank you for your replies! The I asked the seller for more pictures a couple days ago. He replied Friday morning that he would send them when he got to work and he never did. I mentioned that there were some concerns about him photoshopping on PS, so I thought for sure he'll come here to try to resolve that.

Oh well, the search goes on .

Well maybe you'll get those photos after all. I saw the post below. However if this one doesn't work out I know you'll find the perfect stone sooner or later. Sometimes these things just take a little time. Please post pics when you get them

 

[innerkitten]

Hello Guys,

This is Harshil Zaveri from StarRuby.in replying to some concerns raised in this post.

Re: innerkitten / Chrono

Regarding the photography of the gemstones, sure enough the front photo of the gemstone is the same as that on the hand, however the intention is not to deceive the customer but rather only to indicate the size of the gemstone. The color and clarity of the gemstone it is very accurately shown in the front and side photos and also the clarity/color is described in detail on our website and on the eBay listing (the side picture has not posted been posted in this thread).

Anyone involved in photography of gemstones will know that it is very tricky and almost always the color of the gemstone appears quite different in the photographs than the true color. This is especially true for color change sapphires and/or sapphires with strong violetish hue, Alexandrites and emeralds. The inclusions also get enlarged in pictures due to high degree of magnification. Most of the pictures are shot at 1:1 macro, so many of the inclusions cannot be even seen with the naked eye. Photoshopping is inevitable and any dealer who sells gemstones online would agree with me. I cannot speak for other dealers but in our case, this is not done to mis-represent stones - instead it is done to make sure that the color/clarity of the stone visible in the pictures is matched properly to its actual appearance. We take utmost care to show the stone as it is in the pictures, neither better nor worse. The Front/Side photos on the website are photographed in daylight balanced lighting conditions with proper illumination portraying the light passage accurately within the gemstone showing any windows that may be present and also the actual colour (as best as technology allows).

For hand photos however the situation is a bit different. Photographing a gemstone on the hand neither depicts the true color of the gemstone nor the actual clarity of the gemstone since the reflection of the color of the hand greatly influences the actual color of the stone. For example a ruby would appear much redder on the hand because of the yellowish-red color of the hand itself which adds more warmth to the color of the gemstone. Same holds true for emeralds which would appear more yellowish-green than they actually are. Another big problem when photographing photos on the hand is that the clarity appears much worse than the actual because of the fingerprints which appear as inclusions even in transparent, flawless stones.

This is the reason why we do not use the actual photo of the gemstone on hand and rather cut and paste the front image on the hand. Also, since the front view accurately depicts the stone, we do not consider it unethical to cut and paste the same photo on the hand. We also have a practive of providing additional pictures and/or videos including rotating videos, video on hand and video of stone held by tweezers upon customer's request.

Besides, we also offer a 30-day return policy. So if a customer does not like the stone he can return to us within 30 day period for a refund. It would be illogical for us to misrepresent the stone because a returned stone is lost business for us. We have been selling on eBay since 2005 and have 100% positive feedback record till date. Rarely does any customer have a problem with their purchase because we do our best to depict it like its actual appearance.

Re: mamato3blessings, I intended to send you additional pictures on Friday but our photographer was on sick leave. I will arrange additional pictures on Monday morning.

Best regards,
Harshil Zaveri
StarRuby.in

Harshil,
Instead of cutting and pasting the stone on the hand to which I think you want to show the size of the gem (???), perhaps maybe putting it next to a coin, like a US penny, might help. Although you have some concerns about the true color of the stone on the hand, I believe many of us do like seeing a true photo of the stone on the hand (I know I do). If you do have a concern with hand photos, then perhaps you should just stick to tweezer photos, or to show general size of the stone, place it next to some common item, like a US penny. Videos are also really helpful, but I know that it's not feasible for some vendors.

Thanks for your response in this regard.

Good idea. I actually like seeing gems next to a coin. It's done with turquoise all the time. Gives a realistic idea of what the coin will actually look like too.