Would you say something???

[ello]

I was just wondering...did it look fake to you before knowing that it was a CZ?

 

[MissCongeniality]

man this is tough.

if i were in this girls shoes, and i had a fake ring...i''d want to know.

but i''d only want to hear it thru my best friend.

the idea of getting it appraised is a good idea...or getting her to ask her fiance if he''s got the certs on the ring...just because ''she wants to see them.'' sort of thing. maybe that would help her and armed with that info...maybe he''ll confess its a fake.

oh man this is tough.

 

[appletini]

suggest she get it appraised, just part of the normal ring process thing, this way you can pretend like you didn''t know when she finds out.

 

[Caribou]

Date: 1/11/2006 8:48:31 AM
Author: appletini
suggest she get it appraised, just part of the normal ring process thing, this way you can pretend like you didn''t know when she finds out.

This is what I was going to say. Subtly keep on her about getting her ring apprased, she''ll find out that way.

This makes me so mad....

I feel so bad for her. I wonder what kind of lame ass excuse he''ll give her when she finds out.

 

[squeaksluv]

Thank you everyone for some excelllent advice, it sounds like it''s 50/50 on whether or not to say anything, exactly how I''m feeling right now.

Last night I was talking to her on the phone and told her the jeweler had a setting he thought she might be interested in. She laughed and said considering how much her fiance'' already spent it might be too much to ask for a new setting. It doesn''t look fake but then I don''t know if I would really be able to tell. Any advice on to what I should look for?

I did ask her when she was going to have it insured and appraised and guess what? Supposedly Mr. Loser already had it done. AND, what''s even more interesting is that the papers are locked up in his safety deposit box at the bank. I found that quite revealing in itself.

After discussing all your advice and my feelings with my bf I decided that my bf is going to have to go out with Mr. Loser to have some beers and watch some sports (this guy is a total sports addict). My bf is then going to pretend he needs advice on a ring for me (I''d like to think he already has a ring but wishful thinking I know!) and ask him questions about his jeweler and such. Poor bf, he wasn''t too excited about this plan but I figure if Mr. Loser gives him information on his jeweler readily he probably thinks the rock is real?

Although it would be nice to think my friend is more ''diamond savvy'' than thinking her fiance can afford a 4.5 carat clean ''F'' diamond but I really don''t think she has any clue. He does make good money but I seriously doubt that much. She really is a sweetheart and always goes out of her way for friends and family. Sometimes I thnk she''s a little too naive though.

I really don''t know if she realizes many people can''t stand her fiance''. I''ve never said anything but I don''t exactly go out of my way to be nice to him. He just can be so rude and obnoxious but at the same time he always buys her little gifts like flowers and sweets and such. It''s weird, sometimes he''s a contradiction in terms.

I''ll keep you updated. More than anything I wish that jeweler had never send anything.

 

[roxy7]

I wouldn''t tell her, but I would hint to her strongly that she might want to get it appraised. say stuff like, "If you don''t get it insured, then if you lose it you lose all that money" and tell her stories about people losing their diamonds.

The reason I wouldn''t tell her is this -- everyone hates the messenger. chances are that she will marry this guy, whether or not she finds out that the ring is fake. And she will always associate you as the person who told her this. She will be embarassed and horrified when she finds out, and after she forgives him, she will possibly project that onto you and it will really hurt your friendship.

So, for the sake of your friendship, I wouldn''t tell her.

 

[aphisiglovessae]

Wow, the plot thickens! She needs to ask to see those papers ASAP. When I got engaged, my fiance immediately handed the papers over to me. He knows what's up!!

I'm not sure how to tell if a diamond is real, with the naked eye (without a loupe). I always lived by the motto: if the size isn't believable and if it looks TOO perfect, it's probably CZ.

This guy sound like a real con-artist and should be unvealed as soon as possible (however you do it), before your friend marries him and gets conned out of something else!

ETA: I have an idea!! Even though she doesn't want to ask for another setting, have her come look at it anyway just for fun! My girlfriends would NEVER pass up a chance to go shopping and look at jewelry, even if it is just for S's and G's (sh*ts and giggles for those of you who don't know what I mean).

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 1/10/2006 11:15:38 PM
Author: aljdewey
I wouldn''t say anything.

What if she knows? They may have had a discussion about his inability and despite her public proclamations about a chip, figured no one would know. You may ruin it and embarass her.

Second, it''s really between him and her. The jeweler could suffer adversely for having slipped such sensitive information inappropriately.

Here''s another potential problem with telling her:

''One of the jewelers spotted her ring (it''s hard not too!) and immediately came over to ask if she would like it cleaned. She was hesitant but then allowed him to saying she hated to have it leave her finger even for a moment! After she got it back she couldn''t stop staring at it and commenting how sparkly it was!!!''

If you tell her, have you considered the possibility that she might accuse your jeweler of swapping it out? You mentioned the ring was off her finger, but was it out of her sight? Did he clean it in front of her, or out back? Was her setting a fairly unique enough one, or would it be a fairly typical solitaire setting?

We all know a stone couldn''t be unset and set reasonably in the 2 minutes it takes to clean a ring, but you have to realize that she is going to look to place blame anywhere else rather than believe her BF did it.

I wouldn''t do it. If he''s a lying snake, there will be plenty of opportunity for discovery subsequently.

This is precisely what I thought. The jeweler is placed in an awful position.

Also, maybe the jeweler was wrong.

 

[aphisiglovessae]

It's easy for a good jeweler to tell if the diamond is real, with a loupe. If he's a GOOD jeweler, he would've made absolutely sure it was CZ before saying anything.. If I was a jeweler, I'd take a quick peek with a loupe after cleaning it. All the jewelers who have cleaned my ring have looked at it with a loupe to make sure everything is clean and sound, right in front of me!

Also, if I were the jeweler and I noticed it was fake and she accused me of swapping it, I would inform her that it is nearly impossible to swap a diamond that fast, it is not worth the legal trouble, and if she can provide information (i.e. original certificate, papers, etc.) stating that the diamond in her ring is not the original, I will call the police myself. That's just me though.

He really did put a few people in a bad position, including himself, by opening his mouth. However, it's best that she know really soon rather than later on when she's a Mrs. It's just hard for her to be told without harming her relationship with someone.

 

[squeaksluv]

aphisiglovessae - I did think of doing that but I''m also afraid to be there when she finds out.

Like a lot of you, I thought she might think to accuse the jeweler of switching stones but when Jenna showed such hesitation over taking the ring off to let it be cleaned, the jeweler was nice and did it almost in front of her so she could see what he was doing. He did loupe it while we were looking at the settings and in hindsight I should of guessed something wasn''t right by the look on his face.

I''m just hoping that the jeweler is wrong or that she knows already. I just don''t know what else to do aside from seeing if he provides bf with any information about his jeweler. I''m going to ask her jokingly how she could not ask to see the papers, see if that raises any interest. I''ll play around with it and tell her I could never let my bf get away with hiding the papers from me!

 

[widget]

Hi, Squeaks...

Obviously a quality 4.5ct diamond is HUGELY expensive....much more than most people could ever afford. Someone above mentioned $100,000....

....Could this guy afford such a rock if he''d wanted to???

just curious...
widget

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 1/11/2006 10:25:54 AM
Author: squeaksluv

After discussing all your advice and my feelings with my bf I decided that my bf is going to have to go out with Mr. Loser to have some beers and watch some sports (this guy is a total sports addict). My bf is then going to pretend he needs advice on a ring for me (I'd like to think he already has a ring but wishful thinking I know!) and ask him questions about his jeweler and such. Poor bf, he wasn't too excited about this plan but I figure if Mr. Loser gives him information on his jeweler readily he probably thinks the rock is real?

I have to say I think this is a terrible plan, and I can see why your BF feels uncomfortable doing it. Look at what's happening? You came by information you shouldn't have, and now you're devising a plan to lie to her fiance in hopes of outing his secret?

I think you are seriously jeopardizing a friendship.....if this whole things blows up in your face, it could really end the relationship. If I were the friend in this situation, and it all came out, I would be less mad about the fact that you learned of it, and more mad that you took it upon yourself to handle it.

If you're that firm in your conviction that she should know, then "I'm afraid to be there when she finds out" shouldn't be an issue. You should set that aside and tell her the straight up truth (jeweler was making innocent convo on my next trip in and mentioned he had some lovely settings you might want to consider for your CZ...it was an honest mistake, he thought both you and I knew it was one...so please get it checked.)

If you can't set that fear aside, then you should keep quiet and let her find out on her own time.

 

[princessv]

Wow I already replied but I had to tell you my fiance''s reaction to this. He was pretty pissed that a guy would so something like that.

Its one thing if she knew and he knew and then they decided to replace it with a real diamond later OR that they both decided they didn''t want to drop the $$$ on a diamond. He said its completely deceitful and he feels bad that you''ve been put in this situation. He votes against you telling your friend but he does think that you should bring her to that jeweler or somehow get her to take a look at the papers. I never required my fiance to show me the papers to my diamond since I was the one who actually called the cutter himself and got the stones delivered for us to look at and he ended up with one of those. Otherwise I''d have to take a look at the papers myself just to be sure, especially if it was a 4.5!!

And I bet a F VVS 4.5 costs more than 100,000! Take a look at a D IF 1 ct going for close to 20-30k

What kind of setting does she have? Alot of jewelers won''t set CZs in certain settings because of the hardness issue.

 

[Caribou]

Squeak, after reading the saga, I would definitly tell your friend...especially if the boyfriend continues to lie...he is making an a** out of her. You could say something like:

''So I went to the jewelers and he mentioned that he thought your ring was a CZ. I would hope that boyfriend wouldn''t decieve you like that but a high quality diamond of that size is going to cost a lot of money. Maybe you should take it to be appraised...'' It might cause you some friction between you and your friend but that will pass especially since you are just looking out for her. She''d probably do the same thing.

 

[aphisiglovessae]

I honestly don''t think you should be afraid to be there when she finds out. After all, it would be the jeweler delivering the bad news. If she looks at you, then kind of give her a look or let her know that you knew, but you wanted her to hear it from a professional. It might prevent her anger from being geared towards you.

The bottom line is, if you''re going to tell her or help her find out, then do it soon because the longer you know and the longer it takes for her to find out, the more she will be angry at you. The sooner the truth gets out, the better.

 

[pebbles]

Date: 1/10/2006 11:15:38 PM
Author: aljdewey
I wouldn''t say anything.

What if she knows? They may have had a discussion about his inability to fund a honking stone and despite her public proclamations about a chip, figured no one would know. You may ruin it and embarass her.

Second, it''s really between him and her. The jeweler could suffer adversely for having slipped such sensitive information inappropriately.

Here''s another potential problem with telling her:

''One of the jewelers spotted her ring (it''s hard not too!) and immediately came over to ask if she would like it cleaned. She was hesitant but then allowed him to saying she hated to have it leave her finger even for a moment! After she got it back she couldn''t stop staring at it and commenting how sparkly it was!!!''

If you tell her, have you considered the possibility that she might accuse your jeweler of swapping it out? You mentioned the ring was off her finger, but was it out of her sight? Did he clean it in front of her, or out back? Was her setting a fairly unique enough one, or would it be a fairly typical solitaire setting?

We all know a stone couldn''t be unset and set reasonably in the 2 minutes it takes to clean a ring, but you have to realize that she is going to look to place blame anywhere else rather than believe her BF did it.

I wouldn''t do it. If he''s a lying snake, there will be plenty of opportunity for discovery subsequently.

I agree with everything Aljdewey said. Especially if she knows you aren''t crazy about her fiance. She may think you''re just trying to cause trouble or are yourself jealous b/c you aren''t yet engaged.

We on this forum know that the stone could not be swapped out in the 2 mintues it takes to clean a ring, however, I would say MOST people feel as though it could be. Heck, even my husband feels that way! I tell him it''s impossible and his response is "how can you be so sure?" Your girlfriend may take the same approach.

I also agree not to get your own boyfriend involved. The less people involved the better.

In situations like this the messenger always gets the brunt of the anger, even if the intentions were good.

I thought about this last night. If I was your friend, and my best friend knew my ring was fake, would I want her to tell me? I would have to say no. I would want her to stay out of it. If this ring is really 4.5ct, naive or not, I would think your friend would have to think for a minute that maybe it''s not real. Has he every bought her very, and I mean, very expensive jewelry before?

And yes, if this guy is really a jerk she will find out in due time. Hopefully before the wedding.

 

[icekid]

wow, that is such a tough situation! I don''t think that I could tell her myself, unless it was someone with whom I was REALLY close (ie my sister). It it just so personal and involves getting in the middle of a relationship where the couple is engaged! keep us updated on what you decide. I certainly don''t envy your position.

 

[Caribou]

I guess my biggest concern, being her friend, would be if he''s going so far as to make up pretty major lies about a ring that might not be a real diamond (i.e., already had the ring appraised, papers are locked up.....) what other serious matters is he lying to her about?

I think I would want to know...but it all goes to my last experience...I told my friends that I wanted them to be honest with me about the next person I dated in all regards. I''m sure I would be upset but I would realize that they are my friends and not out to hurt me...they are only looking out for me.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 1/11/2006 3:41:20 PM
Author: Caribou
I guess my biggest concern, being her friend, would be if he's going so far as to make up pretty major lies about a ring that might not be a real diamond (i.e., already had the ring appraised, papers are locked up.....) what other serious matters is he lying to her about?

I hear what you're saying......that you'd be concerned for your friend were this you. I really do get that.

Having said that, it's HER problem to worry about how truthful he is. Taking that on as your own suggests that she's 1) not able to exercise sound judgment herself, or 2) that she's incapable of ascertaining the truth without help from an outside source. Both of those implications can be insulting. Now add in that no one likes him to begin with, and you're asking for trouble.

I take it this friend is considered to be reasonably smart. She knows what he makes (or has a ballpark idea), right? She must also have some inkling as to what a ring like that might cost, right? If she's any kind of aware, I'd expect her to be smart enough to say "hey, wait a minute....." without outside help.

I'll tell you one thing: If my husband came home and announced he purchased a jet for us, I'd be pretty suspicious pretty fast.

(Where the hell is he getting the money to buy a jet?). Kidding on the jet....but you get the point. If he purchased a $75k car, my wheels would start turning without anyone having to show me the way.

Friends should look out for each other, sure....but it's not anyone else's responsibility to "save" her from a mistake, a failed relationship, or worry about how much of the relationship is based on lies. That's a self-discovery journey she should take alone.

The only exception would be if he tried to enlist you to PARTAKE in a lie....in which case, you then have a stake in it and can flatly refuse.

 

[decodelighted]

Okay ... after a few days of being stumped (& consulting my own Fiance) I guess I''ll weigh in.

a) Even if he claims, or she thinks the jeweler switched the stone - there''s not much they could do about it w/o the intitial scam becoming quickly evident. Police Report? Umm... show us your receipt/papers/etc. Ooops!

b) this guy is a con-artist. I agree with all who''ve said this is just the tip of the "ice"burg when it comes to his deceptions & his arrogance in thinking everyone else is too STUPID to catch on/him in his lies.

c) your friend is VERY naive. (Which is probably why the con-artist "loves" her: easy mark ... allows him to feel superior)

d) people always shoot the messenger. If you say anything - realize that the friendship itself is at risk. She''ll either be mad at you or be too humiliated to ever feel the same around you again. Aiiigh this is hard.

Can you give us more details? Ages of both parties. How long they''ve been together.

There aren''t any easy answers here. I''ve had two friends involved with con-artists. One married hers & found out after 2 years that he was a full-time drug addict w/o the job she thought he had. He went through all her money & spirit before dissapearing. The other con-artist split when he found an apartment of his own - leaving my poor friend hopeless & near suicidal. In the first case I didn''t know her well enough to warn her - but other friends did confide their worries - to no avail. The other friend -- I warned her constantly. Fact-checked his lies, confronted her with them one by one ... but she never believed me until after he was gone.

I wish I had "the right" answer for ya. Tough, tough situation!

 

[Caribou]

aljdewey, I totally understand what you are saying and I see your point...it's a good point. This is a horrible situation for, Squeak, to be in. Iwas with a type of con artist....I only didn't find out what a scum bag he was until I ran into him and his fiance, whom he started dating a couple month prior, unbeknownst to me. For the longest time when I thought back to the relationship I couldn't stop thinking what an idiot I was. But I was naive and insecure at the time...prime pickings for a con artist. But it's the part of me that felt like an idiot that makes me want to protect Squeak's friend. Hopefully, your right and she has some idea that it's not real. She got to get the joking comments 'Is that thing real!?!?!" I mean, my center stone is 1.3 cts and I get those 'is that thing real' jokes.

Hopefully this will be resolved soon.

 

[aphisiglovessae]

I wouldn't assume that she knows what a reasonable price for a diamond that size is. I had a girlfriend who recently got married. When she got engaged, she admitted not knowing a single thing about diamonds. Nothing about cut, clarity, color and certainly not price. She said she knew that they didn't come cheap, but she couldn't tell you how much a 1 carat diamond costs nor a 12 carat diamond.. Totally clueless.

Also, a person in love looks at the world through rose-colored glasses. Unless she is told by a professional and has some proof staring her in the face, she's not going to believe anyone that's close to her, IMO. That's why I keep suggesting you take her to a jeweler or getting her hands on some papers.

Here's another idea, but it's not as quick as the others: Try getting her involved in some diamond research. Show her what diamond of various sizes cost from several different places. Educate her, and maybe she'll figure it out on her own.

ETA: My ring is platinum with a 0.75 carat center stone and 1.25 carats in side stones. It cost over 6K (from online resources). The center diamond itself cost my fiance over 2K. Can you imagine how much a 4.5 carat diamond costs?? The price ranges I found online was between 30,000K and 100,000! And that's just for the stone! Also, can you imagine how much it would cost from a "maul" store too? It would be even more! *faints*

ETA again: My fiance just corrected me, the center stone was almost 3K (after sending it to Consumers Gem Lab, getting Gemprint registered on it and all the other little fees and taxes). That's still a lot of money to us!

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 1/11/2006 4:03:35 PM
Author: decodelighted
b) this guy is a con-artist. I agree with all who've said this is just the tip of the 'ice'burg when it comes to his deceptions & his arrogance in thinking everyone else is too STUPID to catch on/him in his lies.

I agree. And, this one's a whopper!

It must be ubber arrogance or sheer stupidity - honestly a 4.5 f/vvs stone? I mean it would be more believable at less more reasonable specs. I doubt anyone would give much thought to or comment on a smaller stone.

And, I don't buy that she would have no clue. Most girls contemplating marriage knows something about diamonds and costs associated as they are sensitive to their to be's pocketbook. I could see if it was a relatively "regular" size stone. But, this is one expensive stone. How could she have no clue about such a honker? Doesn't seem reasonable.

The only other sinister thing going on is the jeweler is a crook & trying to obtain the stone - I know - a bit SPYGIRL!ish - but within the realm of possibilites as strange as this story is unfolding.

I think at the end of the day, I would want someone close to me to tell me. I may not believe them; but, if years of lies went on w/o a friend informing me - I'd feel cheated by the friendship. And, as a friend, I don't think I could hold back something like this. I would approach in a most honest, forthright, gentle way though.

 

[hlmr]

Date: 1/10/2006 11:15:38 PM
Author: aljdewey
I wouldn''t say anything.

What if she knows? They may have had a discussion about his inability to fund a honking stone and despite her public proclamations about a chip, figured no one would know. You may ruin it and embarass her.

Second, it''s really between him and her. The jeweler could suffer adversely for having slipped such sensitive information inappropriately.

Here''s another potential problem with telling her:

''One of the jewelers spotted her ring (it''s hard not too!) and immediately came over to ask if she would like it cleaned. She was hesitant but then allowed him to saying she hated to have it leave her finger even for a moment! After she got it back she couldn''t stop staring at it and commenting how sparkly it was!!!''

If you tell her, have you considered the possibility that she might accuse your jeweler of swapping it out? You mentioned the ring was off her finger, but was it out of her sight? Did he clean it in front of her, or out back? Was her setting a fairly unique enough one, or would it be a fairly typical solitaire setting?

We all know a stone couldn''t be unset and set reasonably in the 2 minutes it takes to clean a ring, but you have to realize that she is going to look to place blame anywhere else rather than believe her BF did it.

I wouldn''t do it. If he''s a lying snake, there will be plenty of opportunity for discovery subsequently.

An additional thought is that perhaps this comment could have been a clue from your friend that she knows it''s not a diamond and didn''t want the jeweller to confirm it in your presence.

 

[squeaksluv]

I think the situation may just resolve itself, without my interference which is what I was starting to feel like I''d be doing. I decided against sending my bf to do any dirty work. It''s not fair to him.

I want her to know if the stone is indeed fake but I don''t think it''s right for me to get in the middle of this. I shouldn''t even know anything.

So today I sent Jenna an email telling her my moms ring turned out great. I suggested she might want to see this guy for her wedding rings and if she decided to have her ering reset. Since this is something I would say to anyone of my friends I didn''t feel bad encouraging her but I did add she should go sooner than later in case he gets too busy with Valentines Day coming up and all. She replied back saying that she was thinking about it and wants to see those settings after all, just for fun. I think she''s going over there tonight or tomorrow. Even if I wanted to I couldn''t go with her since I''m tied up at work. She even mentioned bringing John along to which I highly encouraged (I wonder how that''ll go?).

I will say that when we hung up I called the jeweler and asked him that if my friend happen to stop by and he reveals to her the truth about her stone to please not say anything to her about me knowing. If she finds out I think it''s best she finds out without anyone else there. If I were in her shoes I''d be awfully embarassed if one of my friends figured out what a jerk I was engaged to.

I know tonight I''m going to jump everytime the phone rings.

 

[Erin]

I don''t think I''ve ever checked one thread so many times in one day. I am positively desperate to find out the outcome of this whole who-done-it.

 

[moon river]

As soon as she calls, by all means, let us know what is going on!!!!!I don''t think I''ll be able to sleep til I know!!

 

[princessv]

Date: 1/11/2006 6:36:20 PM
Author: Starset Princess
I don''t think I''ve ever checked one thread so many times in one day. I am positively desperate to find out the outcome of this whole who-done-it.

ME TOO! Please do tell us I really hope that this guy isn''t that big of a jerk and if he is...he needs to be found out!!

 

[Dancing Fire]

i hope Mr "FAKE" get busted.

 

[onedrop]

Squeak: Not that you need me to co-sign, but I think you made a really good decision. It''s best to let her find out the truth on her own. No need to ruin a friendship over her fiance''s stupidity (if he gave her a CZ to purposely deceive her). I am hoping that if he is actually a fraud that he is exposed and your friend can find out exactly what she is dealing with.