Your preference isn't their preference.

[soxfan]

I don't feel like I understand enough about modern cut RBs or fancy shapes to be helpful. I will chime in about old cuts, though I'm by no means an expert. It is a big responsibility that we have here and I think that sometimes, those of us who have been here for years, forget what it was like when we arrived as newbies.

Great thread @Niel!

Me too, I showed up here with a VG cut. But I do chime in about old cuts, because now I have them and know what to look for.

Niel, you know what my biggest worry is when I get new WF ACA studs? That i won't be able to tell the difference (to my eye and my social circle) from non-ideal cuts and I just shelled out more money! Why would I pay for "cut is king" best when it might not really matter in the long run. But I think I've been programmed to seek out that ideal stone because I've never seen it, KWIM?

 

[Gussie]

Me too, I showed up here with a VG cut. But I do chime in about old cuts, because now I have them and know what to look for.

Niel, you know what my biggest worry is when I get new WF ACA studs? That i won't be able to tell the difference (to my eye and my social circle) from non-ideal cuts and I just shelled out more money! Why would I pay for "cut is king" best when it might not really matter in the long run. But I think I've been programmed to seek out that ideal stone because I've never seen it, KWIM?

The upgrade policy alone is worth wf for me and unfortunately I have to pay sales tax there too.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

A big part of communication is listening. Listening to what the consumer (poster) is asking for. FWIW, this is where I believe the biggest breakdown occurs in terms of replies.

E.g. an OP will state the fiancee wants a Tiffany ring. Every single reply will dissuade them from purchasing a branded piece. Will even if the OP STATES and repeats, people continue to the point where the poster feels they need to defend what they want.

E.g. an OP will come stating the fiance wants a D/E/F colored diamond. Or IF diamond. Every single poster will attempt to dissuade them from these high colorless and clarity stones. I've seen OP's write "please do not respond" with other color/clarity options....". Then the OP leaves/doesn't return.

Replies are IMHO, too prescriptive based on a failure to "listen" to what the OP wants.

While I fully acknowledge that the parameters for cut grade by GIA and AGS are tantamount to in medicine what are referenced to as evidence based practice, it really must be in context. And as PS'er if we want to provide the service we say we do, we need to begin with much better listening and supporting OP choices for cut, color and clarity. And Brands.


cheers--Sharon

 

[MissGotRocks]

I think that by and large people do buy what they want - regardless of their questions and the answers they receive. I also think that since this is a diamond education forum, we all owe it to others to help them make the best choices that they can for the money. I won't recommend something to someone that I don't feel comfortable about nor will I pat them on the head with assurance if I feel that they are heading toward a questionable stone. I just don't feel that this is the purpose of PS. Back in my early days on PS, not only were certain name brands touted but so were very specific specs in those brands. It often made you feel that if anything you had was outside of those parameters, it just wasn't worthy. However, I must say that posters here had seen first hand some of what they were recommending so you gave them the benefit of the doubt of knowing. It is of course easy to recommend certain vendors as you know their products will be stellar. It is also helpful in some instances to show them stones that have great pictures so they sort of know the direction we are trying to point them in.
I understand the point that sometimes these posts come off as too strict or too open and shut but as someone that has had multiple stones through the years, I wish that I had the knowledge offered here. It would have saved lots of money and heartache. So again, everyone comes at giving advice from different points of view. I am thankful too for those that take the time to browse many listings to try to come up with a stone that meets the price point or size that others are looking for. They find some real beauties at great price points that result in happy purchases. I just don't think that a one size fits all approach to recommendation works for all situations so posters must take the good with the bad in terms of recommendations. In the end though, I think it works as folks weed out the info that is pertinent to them in an effort to choose a stone that meets their own criteria whether that is price, quality, etc. I will probably always promote cut over everything else as my own experience has been that it truly does matter and I come from a quality over quantity mindset. That goes for most purchases I make and I realize that everyone doesn't see it that way. However, it is up to the individual to decide - much as they would after a google search for many things. You are just gathering information to see what works for you and what doesn't.

 

[Dancing Fire]

While I fully acknowledge that the parameters for cut grade by GIA and AGS are tantamount to in medicine what are referenced to as evidence based practice, it really must be in context. And as PS'er if we want to provide the service we say we do, we need to begin with much better listening and supporting OP choices for cut, color and clarity. And Brands.


cheers--Sharon

I don't comment on people's color, clarity nor setting choice, however I'll post a if their choice of stone is cut too deep.

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

Thank you Niel for this thread. I usually hang out on the colored stone forum, but I do visit the diamond forums because I love diamonds. I think it is important to educate consumers that cut is very important. At the same time I have seen threads in which IMHO someone who has chosen a well cut or excellent cut diamond is reminded that their choice may be lacking because if they just chose a smaller, better cut diamond they would be happier. I also remember that in the not so distant past a PS member stated they were leaving because PS has too many old cut lovers. I think it is great to educate consumers and so many consumers have benefited from this. But at the same time it is actually okay for people to choose diamonds that are not considered top cut and they should still be allowed to love their choices.

 

[sailorneptune]

I am a newbie and just wanted to say I learned a lot from this site about diamonds! I appreciate everyone feedbacks. People were very helpful and nice . I think it ultimately boils down to whether your diamond is beautiful enough for you. I learned that my diamond is steep/deep but I decided to keep it because it really is beautiful and always bright or sparkly. It never look dull or dark. Now down the line when I upgrade to a bigger diamond, I will definitely choose one that isn't considered steep/ deep thanks to the knowledge I obtained here!

 

[Jacquiemalta]

It's rare that I post but I've been around here for years.

I think too much knowledge has killed the joy for some PS members. If someone posted a hideous ring/diamond but said that it made their heart sing when they saw it or it made them laugh out loud with happiness, I'd tell them to GO FOR IT IMMEDIATELY! Regardless of cut, clarity or anything else. I think many members here only see stats now and forget that diamonds are just beautiful baubles that should make you smile. None of us are on this site looking for life saving information so maybe we should all lighten up; give advice if you wish but don't be offended if it's ignored. Let's put the fun back in to diamonds

 

[Madison2]

I think this applies to settings as well. Same vendors always been recommended as if they were the be-it-end-all. It is very much like a cult in terms of the fact that if one comes in wanting to learn, the newbie feels insecure in terms of knowledge. Then the newbie starts distrusting her own taste, Bc if she was so unkowledgeable before she got to ps, surely she has a lot to learn from the experts. The experts are defined as those who hav posted the most and who have been here the longest. No other credentials necessary. Lol. Anyhow, the newbie begins to trust the experts in all things diamond ring related, and well that's why smtb has so many threads of rings that all resemble each other.
I think the irony is that no matter how much certain posters push cut and certain vendors, one only needs to look at looptroupe and preloved forum to realize that some of those highly recommended vendor's settings or stones sit and sit for months. Bc at the end of the day, these highly recommended pieces only sell if they are drastically marked down. So they were never really worth more than the other ones. Like these took a bigger monetary hit when they sold than those that didn't opt for the super ideal super expensive setting.

So true!
Thank you!

 

[oval_seeker]

Another newbie chiming in. Since making my first diamond purchase about a month ago I have stuck around as a lurker because it's been so fun to learn here!

I think anyone that comes to PS in the first place is much more discerning from the average consumer and is here expressly because they want an above average stone. Anyone can go on JA or a variety of other sites and input their desired stats and go right ahead and make that purchase if that makes them happy, no one is stopping them. Consumers come here because they are searching for more than that. I can't imagine someone putting in the effort to come to PS and post a potential stone and NOT wanting to hear if it's a bad stone or if they are possibly prioritizing the wrong thing! There is a reason that every seasoned poster here recommends similar stats and harps on cut and, personally, I am VERY grateful that people on this board took the time to educate me on that!

I absolutely do agree that sometimes the OP is ignored when it comes to preferred vendor or basics of their search and at times it seems that veteran posters are annoyed by answering the same questions over and over again. There were times in my search that I felt a little spoken down to by veterans of this board, I think that could be solved by asking people to just not reply if they are annoyed by the OP's search or question. In the end, I found a great stone thanks to what I learned here and would likely have bought something much less lovely and much more expensive had I ventured out on my own and not been schooled on this board. If OP specifically states they don't care about cut, then fine, but otherwise why would people here NOT tell them how important it is?

My 2c is that this topic seems to have been brought about by a certain poster who, quite frankly, bought a bad stone that cannot be returned and now wants to prove to the world that bad stones are totally great (sorry, this is just my take). Just because that was what he was after (which it totally fine and great for him) doesn't mean all other newbies here don't want to learn how to pick an above average stone!

 

[Rockdiamond]

Consider the fact that there is somewhat of an "echo chamber" here regarding cut. If 10 or 100 people keep repeating the same set of stats that does not mean the stats are right for everyone.
A seasoned poster is not a seasoned diamond buyer necessarily, though some certainly are.
Keep in mind that a large part of cut assessment involves first hand examination. There's no substitute.
So if someone who has not experienced the differences firsthand is sure the other 99 people using that chart are correct it's easy to hop on board.

 

[pyramid]

The site is part owned by the inventor of Idealscope and Asset tool. The site markets cut as covering up colour and thereby allowing posters to go for more size for their budget, rather than higher color. When I first came here people were trying to get up to the 1 carat mark and buying D to G sometimes down as far as I colour. Lots bought even VVS clarity although SI1 was most popular. Then the site started marketing to people that if they went to a J colour the ideal cut would mask the colour. Nowadays no one buys the most bought colours hardly and go for lower colours and larger diamonds.

 

[Karl_K]

The site is part owned by the inventor of Idealscope and Asset tool. The site markets cut as covering up colour and thereby allowing posters to go for more size for their budget, rather than higher color. When I first came here people were trying to get up to the 1 carat mark and buying D to G sometimes down as far as I colour. Lots bought even VVS clarity although SI1 was most popular. Then the site started marketing to people that if they went to a J colour the ideal cut would mask the colour. Nowadays no one buys the most bought colours hardly and go for lower colours and larger diamonds.

Diamond prices raised much faster then budgets.
Back when I joined PS you could get a super-ideal 1ct g/h/vs or eye clean si1 that would be a vs2 today for 5-6k. The most common budget today is still 5-6k.
As a result people started going down to lower colors.
What they found out is that lower colors are pretty kewl too.
A much more realistic view that color is color and there are no bad colors is much more common today.
There is nothing wrong with a J color stone that would have been slammed in the old days. It is what it is and if it is pleasing to the individual buying it then that is kewl.

Garry who invented the IS owns just a small part of PS.
AGS who developed the ASET scope owns none.

 

[msop04]

When I first came here people were trying to get up to the 1 carat mark and buying D to G sometimes down as far as I colour. Lots bought even VVS clarity although SI1 was most popular. Then the site started marketing to people that if they went to a J colour the ideal cut would mask the colour. Nowadays no one buys the most bought colours hardly and go for lower colours and larger diamonds.

Regarding color... when given the choice of a D or an H, there are some people who actually prefer the H (and it's not just due to budget or "getting a larger stone"). Some are turned off by the iciness and think it looks like a CZ, just as some are bothered by the tint in a lower color. If someone really wants a D/VS1, but finds their budge gets them a 0.5 ct, then it is their prerogative if they buy the 0.5 ct or if they decide to go for a larger H/SI1. Would this person RATHER have D/VS? Yes, as that was their preference... However, said person will need to make a choice as to what is most important to them -- and there is no right or wrong answer.

 

[Niel]

Another newbie chiming in. Since making my first diamond purchase about a month ago I have stuck around as a lurker because it's been so fun to learn here!

I think anyone that comes to PS in the first place is much more discerning from the average consumer and is here expressly because they want an above average stone. Anyone can go on JA or a variety of other sites and input their desired stats and go right ahead and make that purchase if that makes them happy, no one is stopping them. Consumers come here because they are searching for more than that. I can't imagine someone putting in the effort to come to PS and post a potential stone and NOT wanting to hear if it's a bad stone or if they are possibly prioritizing the wrong thing! There is a reason that every seasoned poster here recommends similar stats and harps on cut and, personally, I am VERY grateful that people on this board took the time to educate me on that!

I absolutely do agree that sometimes the OP is ignored when it comes to preferred vendor or basics of their search and at times it seems that veteran posters are annoyed by answering the same questions over and over again. There were times in my search that I felt a little spoken down to by veterans of this board, I think that could be solved by asking people to just not reply if they are annoyed by the OP's search or question. In the end, I found a great stone thanks to what I learned here and would likely have bought something much less lovely and much more expensive had I ventured out on my own and not been schooled on this board. If OP specifically states they don't care about cut, then fine, but otherwise why would people here NOT tell them how important it is?

My 2c is that this topic seems to have been brought about by a certain poster who, quite frankly, bought a bad stone that cannot be returned and now wants to prove to the world that bad stones are totally great (sorry, this is just my take). Just because that was what he was after (which it totally fine and great for him) doesn't mean all other newbies here don't want to learn how to pick an above average stone!

Woah, you know what assuming does.

This thread was not brought on by one particular thread but months of fly by advice given by people who care more about looking right (quickly) than helping.

Also your comment here seems to exhibit a lot of what I'm talking about.
"Consumers come here because they are searching for more than that"

You are assuming people came here for the same reason you came here. People come here because they were searching on Pinterest and they liked the setting they found and the picture led them back here. People search "how to buy a sapphire" and come here and switch to diamonds. People go on wedding forums and are asking "where do I start?!" And are directed here. You're making assumptions about the people that frequent this site that are not true. Assuming everyone came here to get a top cut is ignoring a lot of the PS base.

"I can't imagine someone putting in the effort to come to PS and post a potential stone and NOT wanting to hear if it's a bad stone or if they are possibly prioritizing the wrong thing! "

Their opinion is not wrong. If they are value color over cut they are not "prioritizing the wrong thing"
If someone comes here and asks "how do I get the best stone" you can tell them why you feel someone SHOULD prefer cut. But if THEY already did their homework and think cut should be the second most important C, their preference is not wrong.

"doesn't mean all other newbies here don't want to learn how to pick an above average stone!"

Where did say that? I seem to have said it's very important for people to get informed. Frankly what people now are doing is barely informing anyone, just giving them a cheat sheet. Had you read what I said you may have understood that as I was clear I wasn't saying cut isn't important.

 

[oval_seeker]

Hi @Niel, I never said people came to PS looking for top cut, I said that they come looking for advice. I also do think it takes more than an accidental stumble on PS to figure it out a little bit, create an account, and gather the courage to post. I think if you do all of that then you are really interested in what people here think.

I also never said anyone's preference on anything is wrong, I just said I think people come for advice and ultimately appreciate the advice they get here even if it's not what they set out wanting to hear. On my thread I had a number of members chime in and really try to teach me how to pick on oval based on how the facets sparkle in an online video, it was incredibly informative. Obviously, I realize that's just their opinion and that I am free to do whatever the heck I want (duh!) but I appreciate hearing their preference anyways, and I wouldn't have asked if I didn't.

Clearly, I cannot speak for anyone but myself! However, I sure do see a heck of a lot of threads here where an OP is profusely thanking PSers for helping them learn, saving them money, or finding them something really lovely. In my very short time lurking here, I've seen the community go above and beyond many, many times to try to help people with all manners of tastes/preferences/budgets on this board. I sure hope everyone here will continue to be honest and offer advice when it is requested, it seems ya'll are really onto something.

 

[Niel]

@oval_seeker it seems you're not understanding what I'm saying. That's fine. I'm glad you enjoy your experience and I'm sure whatever you picked out is lovely.

 

[Dancing Fire]

What Niel is saying ...if I came here looking for a salt & pepper stone she'll help to find one...

 

[Niel]

What Niel is saying ...if I came here looking for a salt & pepper stone she'll help to find one...

Someone's got to and it sure as hell won't be you.

 

[canuk-gal]

What Niel is saying ...if I came here looking for a salt & pepper stone she'll help to find one...

Full time job + DF = Pot Stirrer!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Someone's got to and it sure as hell won't be you.

Just in case a newbie is looking for one..

Here is one with more salt than peppers

Some may only prefer a few sprinkles of peppers...

 

[John P]

We're on page 3 of this thread now.

Per Pricescope history, the people who follow threads past page 1-2 are those who have read it from the outset. So I am wagering this is an educated audience. To that end, I'm inclined to share my 2 cents regarding instructive vs interactive replies to new posters.

Original post: "[Link] This diamond is from my local jeweler. 1.02ct D VVS2. He is asking $ 15,000. It is a GIA EX but the HCA score is 5.2??? Can that be right?"

Instructive reply: "No it is a ripoff. Also, D color and VVS clarity are overkill. You will be fine with H VS2. Try these from (XYZ vendor). [Link] [Link] [Link]. The diamonds I linked also have a much better cut. Plus they have superior trade-up guarantees. Put them on hold now before someone takes them."

Interactive reply: "Hello OP. Welcome to PS. First, you have a great budget. That 1.02 D VVS2 you posted is higher-priced than it might be from a number of internet-sellers, but your local jeweler may need a bit of room to provide you with service, so if you feel its warranted it is a legitimate spend. The 5.2 HCA score is something to discuss, especially on a cut-focused forum like this one... GIA EX covers a big range of performance qualities and, in terms of brightness, anything over HCA 2.0 may still be EX, yet it will not be as bright as options at the top of the grade when you get into certain lighting conditions. Is that a big deal to you? Maybe...maybe not. Let's explore what you want, and your experience. First question: Have you seen that 1.02 in person already? If so, what do you like the most about it? Anything you didn't like? ... Second question: Did you see it in numerous different lighting conditions? Third question: Aside from the 1.02 you are considering, what have you explored and seen so far? Have you seen other diamonds compared to it?

*
#1: I know YMMV. The above is not meant to be absolute, just an example of an interactive / interrogative reply, as opposed to marching orders.

#2: I further realize the interactive reply example contradicts the evolution of social media (it's not blunt, it's not to the point and it's not finished in one comment). But it opens, in my opinion, needed questions in a space like this... If we collectively wish this space to continue being relevant.

 

[John P]

Just in case a newbie is looking for one..

Good Lord, DF.

 

[HDer]

Just in case a newbie is looking for one..

Here is one with more salt than peppers

Some may only prefer a few sprinkles of peppers...

What about this one? https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...adiant-cut/4.01-carat-si1-clarity-sku-3108155

 

[Dancing Fire]

HD
That is a wrong image posted by JA

 

[Karl_K]

Interactive reply: "Hello OP. Welcome to PS. First, you have a great budget. That 1.02 D VVS2 you posted is higher-priced than it might be from a number of internet-sellers, but your local jeweler may need a bit of room to provide you with service, so if you feel its warranted it is a legitimate spend. The 5.2 HCA score is something to discuss, especially on a cut-focused forum like this one... GIA EX covers a big range of performance qualities and, in terms of brightness, anything over HCA 2.0 may still be EX, yet it will not be as bright as options at the top of the grade when you get into certain lighting conditions. Is that a big deal to you? Maybe...maybe not. Let's explore what you want, and your experience. First question: Have you seen that 1.02 in person already? If so, what do you like the most about it? Anything you didn't like? ... Second question: Did you see it in numerous different lighting conditions? Third question: Aside from the 1.02 you are considering, what have you explored and seen so far? Have you seen other diamonds compared to it?

Reading that is making me reach for my wallet to make sure it hasn't disappeared.


In all seriousness, kind and informative even if a little blunt is great.
To many consumers sounding like sales people is not a good thing.
But being kind is a great thing.

 

[msop04]

Reading that is making me reach for my wallet to make sure it hasn't disappeared.


In all seriousness, kind and informative even if a little blunt is great.
To many consumers sounding like sales people is not a good thing.
But being kind is a great thing.

This cracked me up!

 

[soxfan]

Regarding color... when given the choice of a D or an H, there are some people who actually prefer the H (and it's not just due to budget or "getting a larger stone"). Some are turned off by the iciness and think it looks like a CZ, just as some are bothered by the tint in a lower color. If someone really wants a D/VS1, but finds their budge gets them a 0.5 ct, then it is their prerogative if they buy the 0.5 ct or if they decide to go for a larger H/SI1. Would this person RATHER have D/VS? Yes, as that was their preference... However, said person will need to make a choice as to what is most important to them -- and there is no right or wrong answer.

Add me to the list of preferring lower colors. D's look like cubic zirconias to me....

 

[Rockdiamond]

John- all due respect but how is calling something a "ripoff" not matching orders?
Words matter. I've been on both sides of the counter.
It's very possible that Tiffany would charge $15k for a 1.00 DVVS
Could one buy a better stone for a lot less? Sure. But they won't get the blue box or the experience.
Is someone getting "ripped off" if they took that course?
How do people who do enjoy shopping at a premium store (or anyone) react when their judgement is questioned in such a harsh manner?.
Professionally and personally I'd love it if posters were not so quick to harshly trash a deal without all the info.
Clearly I'm more in favor or your second answer

 

[vintagelover229]

Wish I had know myself a bit better before selling my first diamond. We got a great deal on it, and I felt it wasn't great bc it wasn't ideal so we sold it to GOG and bought an AVR. I miss my old stone-granted it was huge and I felt super self concious about it but had I never known about ideal cut rings (but somehow known about diamondbistro) i wouldn't have ever felt my stone was inferior and never would have sold it. Probably would have bought a band that was plain to wear down the road but now I'll never own a stone of higher color and clarity with near ideal standards again. I love my sapphire set don't get me wrong but something was super special about my diamond and vintage set that I'll never have again. All thanks to the idea I had in my head that only AGS 000 was what I should have. I've grown a lot since those days, and I can't really blame PS for those ideas other than that's all I saw and was recommended. I loved the idea of an ideal diamond-an ideal OEC. But really ideal was what I had! Live and learn!