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A date conflict....

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Ally,

I am absolutely stunned by the behavior of both your sister, her fiance and your parents. I know enough from your posts that there is a messy hsitory involved but this just goes so far beyond that.

I second TG''s advice to elope on the date you originally planned for. You can have a celebration of some sort when you return, or on your 1 year wedding anniversary, 12 year relationship anniversary in 2009.

I am so sad for you.

~K
 
OMG. I have no words.
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Good luck w/things tonight. We are all pulling for you.
 
I cant believe that your sister booked the same date! Why would anyone do that,let alone to their sister! Good luck speaking with her tonight. I would go ahead as you had planned as you have to do whats right to you and your FI. Would you change your wedding to this year or is that an option?
 
Ally, did I read this right? They booked the same date and same location? Did they actually book it or are they just trying to scare you into moving it? If it is the same location, I wonder if the Windsor wondered, hm, interesting that this girl is booking her wedding on the same date as another Vietnamese girl with the same last name? Can you call to make sure?

So yeah, I''m appalled. I''m so sorry this is happening to you. I like the ideas that TG and Gypsy came up with. I''m also the type of person who will fight for something just because of the principle. But I''ve learned that it''s not my job to teach these ignorant, selfish, inconsiderate, lying, two-faced people. It''s not worth my time, my energy, and any emotional anguish. That''s why I think you should let your sister refund your deposit (she did suggest it after all...gee what a NICE sister she is) so that you can have your wedding in the beautiful spring (before hers), or escape the madness of the cultural insanity to frolic in Italy!!
It seems like your parents and your sister''s ideas are out of your control. You and J don''t have the power to teach them how to be more considerate. All you can do is weigh your options and decide which one will make you happy. Make sure that in 50 years, you can look back on this decision with no regrets. Will you be happy if none of your relatives go to your wedding? Will you be happy eloping? Will you be happy having a new anniversary date?

Good luck Ally! Virtual hugs for tonight!
 
Ugh. She''ll be home soon within the next half hour, so getting my thoughts together.

Ebree, Gypsy: You guys are right about the karma thing. Honestly, it''s not like I''m taking her date, only infringing on her *year*. I picked July because I live in Canada, generally everything is very cool until beginning of June, and the reason we picked the reception hall we did was because it''s a bit in the country, it''s by the lake, and there were beautiful gardens. I''ve always dreamt of a small wedding in the country, so this was the closes I could get. June would work, May we would be chasing non-existent flowers. But all are still options.

Luckylady: Well I''m gald you came out of lurking for whatever the reason
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Cehrabehra: You know I''ve kind of thought about this, and if she and FBIL were at the wedding, what in the world would they do? Show dressed for their own wedding, start nasty rumors (FIBL has done that in the past...the word in the Viet community was that my ring was fake because my fiance couldn''t afford the real deal
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). It would probably be better anyways if they don''t show up.

Travelinggal: I can''t imagine having the nerve to plan a destination wedding in Italian!! But we are going either this summer or for the honeymoon. Depending how the rest of the school year goes.

Deco: Honey you''re so sweet. I doubt many people on the outside think that. They are going to have their house paid for in full! Imagine! Blah. I can''t say I''m not jealous about that. Furniture to! 20,000 for furniture. Isn''t that psychotic?

flopkins: thanks for pulling for me, I''m a tiny bit nervous actually.

bee* not I don''t think this year is an option. I start as an intern almost a week or 2 after school ends, so this year is not feasable. I''m also 99% sure the place we booked is fully booked for this year.

CrownJewel: No the windsor is not where we booked. When I was young, my first thought was a country wedding, the second was the Windsor. It is the IT place. All of the girls in my class are having their weddings there. Downtown. Hip. Upscale. And incidently, $152+ 15% tax, per person. With a 200 person minimum. And they are booking it for 2 days. Imagine. I did the math and I laughed. And they have to buy him a 300,000 house, because everything at 200, 000 is *crap*
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. He tells me this ALL THE TIME! What a prince. No wonder his parents want him married and out of their hair at 31 years old, that''s really expensive by anyone''s standard.

http://www.lewindsor.com/index2.html

Actually relooking at that, where we are are having our wedding does look a little insignificant. Certinly not as impressive or hip as their plans. Blah:

http://www.manoirrouvillecampbell.com/fixe.html

There''s a small catholic church about 3 minutes on the same road, overlooking the river.
 
I understand how hockeyguy can be so pissed off, I would be too. No matter how hard we try, sometimes we just can't understand how something so wrong can be ignored because of a culture. And you have every right to be angry!

I love the elopment to Italy idea... It's actually our backup plan if things get ugly with the FILs again. June sounds lovely too! I agree that May would be a little early around here... J and I actually chose September to avoid the hot July weather, and we can still get a beautiful and warm day. But if you decide to keep your date, send those STDs out asap!

Good luck with talking to her... I'm actually praying she won't attack you again.

ETA: Your location is GORGEOUS! I like it much better than hers...
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So... um... what are ya gonna do?

*M*
 
Ally, I just read through the whole thread. I have no words. I hope all goes well tonight. You should stand your ground. After the absue you have suffered from your sister, tell her a big old NO!!!! Unbelievable doesn''t begin to descirbe it. Ughhhhh.
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Sorry, didn''t read any replies, only the OP....but just have to respond anyway!!!

First, omg what a request. I can''t begin to empathize with what you''re feeling! I thought us brides only get ONE DAY?. I read that somewhere lol. Okay, fine.......perhaps some of us squeeze in a rehearsal dinner the night before so that''s really a day and a half??? But a YEAR. O. M. G.

Second. I highly suggest you keep your date exactly where it is. It''s set. That''s that. You will feel much worse about yourself for changing it than dealing with your sister''s reaction to not changing the date. Third......your fiance is a person in this engagement, too!!! HE may not want to change it, darn it all!!! That''s now YOUR date unless YOU TWO decide it''s better to move it because the caterer you love just can''t make that date your reception hall agreed to lol!!!

Of course your darling sister should move around you. PERIOD. You got engaged first. You picked a date. YOU PUT A DEPOSIT DOWN. period. period. period. If she has a life plan to follow, then she can work around your wedding date. Maybe she can get married a year before you? A year after you? IF this year thing is really a deal breaker, that is. Sounds strange to me. Out of towners are individuals who can make their own decisions and if they happen to have two weddings to attend in one year (oh the horror) they will have to choose to choose one or go to both or neither. Your sis can''t even begin to assume the decision patterns of 400 potential guests for cryin'' out loud. Fine, she wants some temporal distance betwwen the two dates. 6 months sounds well-spaced to me!

I dunno, OP, to be blunt, this is SO not a understandable or even solid argument on her part. Personally, I would have laughed when she asked me such a request and then asked if she were serious. Once she told me how serious she was, I would have been HAPPY to say HECK NO.

We don''t all understand the dynamics of your family so if you want to try to keep some peace then let her compromise. You don''t need to do one single thing more.

Wow.
 
Oh. My. God. I only just saw this development now. Ally, I still might be able to make it up there on a jet to knock your sister out. Let me know if that''s cool (and don''t worry people, I have my own hockey stick
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).

The nerve of her going and booking your date, behind your back, after you said you would think about it (even if you weren''t going to change your mind) is just despicable. I wouldn''t even do that to someone I didn''t like, let alone my sister.

I know you are already off to prepare yourself for the talk with your sister. HUGS HUGS HUGS! I am 1000% behind whatever you do! I would love to see her eat crow and not be able to cause the shift of your wedding date. But I also understand that family and cultural traditions exist and there may not be much you can do about it if your family is behind it. But if that is the case, I definitely think an alternate top secret plan for your own wonderful, perfect day is in order!!!!
 
Date: 1/24/2007 5:42:48 PM
Author: allycat0303


Travelinggal: I can''t imagine having the nerve to plan a destination wedding in Italian!! But we are going either this summer or for the honeymoon. Depending how the rest of the school year goes.
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I lived in Tuscany for 6 years and Lake Como for the 2 years before that and speak fluent Italian.

If you want to get married in Italy, just say the word and I''ll do all the translating for you!

I''m flying over there for a wedding in Siena in May - it''s gorgeous!

Best of luck with your sister tonight - we''re all thinking of you. Just remember - don''t give in unless you really mean to.

I have a sister 2 years younger than me. She has always been jealous of my being older (God knows why - it''s not like you get anything special for being it!) and used to say I didn''t deserve it because she was more responsible!

Anyway, she was desperate to get married before me. She married at 26 in 2000 to the first guy she dated after university. They have been unhappily married now for 7 years and she''s stuck at home with 2 kids and guess what...

Now she''s jealous because I have a career, I spent 8 years living in Italy, I''m not tied down at home with kids and above all because I have a wonderful fiance who adores me, buys me flowers every week, can''t wait to put the ring of my dreams on my finger (her''s didn''t want to buy her one at all) and above all is sweet to me, respects me, builds me up and supports me in everyway.

Whatever happens tonight - remember you win in the life game and years of happiness with your FI are so much more important than her tantrums and spitefulness.
 
Oh Ally, I''m so sorry you are going through this. I agree with TGal completely...Elope. Unless you have had a lifelong dream of having a big family wedding. If that is the case, I wouldn''t put aside a dream because your sister chooses to behave like a rotten, horrible, brat. An April 2008 wedding would be in order.

I have to say, Ally, that for the year that I have been lurking/posting you are one of the sweetest most kind and gentle people here. I am so very sorry your family is treating you this way.
 
Fingers crossed that everything''s going well! Let us know what happens.
 
My fingers are crossed for you too.

I tried to compose a post during breakfast this morning, but I just couldn''t get out anything that was Pricescope-appropriate. I''m so frustrated for you.
 
well, i have to say both sites are gorgeous.

but anyhoo - just a thought that occured to me - is there any way to verify that she actually did book the windsor? like if you called windsor inquiring about the date, to see if it''s already booked?
 
Date: 1/24/2007 9:03:34 PM
Author: Blenheim
My fingers are crossed for you too.

I tried to compose a post during breakfast this morning, but I just couldn''t get out anything that was Pricescope-appropriate. I''m so frustrated for you.
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LOL I totally know what you mean!

BTW I wish you the best of luck this evening - I hope it went...... smoothly - one can hope, right??
 
I feel for you being in the predicament. If you give in to your sis and family (again) it just reinforces their behavior and will not really appease anyone, she will always be angling and pushing. If you DON'T, you are being threatened emtionally and while you MIGHT appease them for a time, nothing is really any different. I think you are a a lovely girl. I just want to ask, without being ignorant since I am not Viet, WHY do you feel you again have to bend to their will, when it is a never ending saga that giving in to will not change? You then have accomodated them once again, you are unhappy, and it is NOT going to solve the bigger issue. My sister pulled things with me for years, but as long as I played along it was never going to stop. She is not in my life anymore, my choice, and I am fine with it. Of course, I miss the vision of what a sister should have been, but she was never going to be it for me, whatever the reasons she had I do not know. Doesn't matter, she was never going to change and the only thing I could do is walk away. I KNOW it is hard to conceive of that with your family, but it seems so toxic to me, and culture notwithstanding, I just do not think you should always get the short end. If they really mean their threats and will follow through on those tactics which are meant to coerce you yet again, no offense, but I say good riddance. If they really would do that to their daughter, and you constanstly have to do this dance with them to please them (til the NEXT incident)..well, I could not keep on dancing to the music. Maybe if you state your case, calmly, fairly, and then are willing to get up and leave, they will see, cultural mores or not, that this is silly and divisive and hurtful. What is the logic in YOU having to sacrifice all the time and your sister never having to do it? I really hope it all goes well for you. I would just say, sorry, I got engaged first, I am older, this is when Hockey Guy and I are getting married. Whoever comes to each of our weddings, great. But this is the plan. I am just so sad that this is something you have to be battling now...PS you are older, so don't you get to marry first anyway in the tradition?

PPS...I am NOT implying it is easy to let go of your family but in cases like this, you have pain either way, it would seem to me, and so I know for me, letting her go and having the pain of facing the truth of our sisterly relationship was easier, in the long run, than the pain of having her hurt me repeatedly...
 
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*sputter*

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Ally: It''s probably been about 12 hours since I first read about these latest developments, and I still don''t know how to respond. There just aren''t words that describe what your sister is trying to pull on her own sister. I''m sure she chose your day specifically because she thinks it will chase you out of "her" year. And the worst part is that it seems like a no-win situation. If you both have weddings on the same date your friends and family may be forced to choose sides, which would be unpleasant whether they choose to attend your wedding or hers, and the time leading up to the wedding is likely to be filled with tension.

What keeps coming to my mind it the serenity prayer: differentiating between what you can and cannot control. You cannot control what your sister chooses to do (or your parents.) You can try to outgun her (send out early STDs, for example) but you''re not really winning if your wedding becomes a competition rather than a celebration. You can continue with your plans for that weekend with the expectation that it will be a smaller wedding, and that your parents will not be as involved as they otherwise would be (stifling an editorial comment here) and might not even attend your wedding. You could elope on that weekend. You could move your wedding up a few months or more -- and expect that you''ll be planning it without help from your parents or your sister -- and have a second future anniversary to enjoy with your hubby. You and your FI might consider looking at the options and pick the one that will allow you to focus on you, rather than reacting to her.

I''m so sorry that you have to put up with this from your sister, and that your parents are willing to side with her. In the end though it seems pretty clear that you have the better relationship and will have the better marriage, no matter who has the "better" wedding.

*** hugs ***
 
I''m with MINIMS...I first started reading your updates about 14 hours ago, and I''m just totally at a loss (seriously, my jaw dropped and I started shaking my head at the computer screen)! I can''t believe that she had the nerve to book the same weekend! I''ve been fuming over it all day- I just can''t conceive of being treated that way by my own family (let''s face it- if your parents wanted to put a stop to this, they probably could). I know you''ve mentioned that a lot of this is culture-related, but there should be NO excuse in the world for you to be treated like this! I really don''t have anything else to add that hasn''t already been said, but I do want to let you know that I have my fingers crossed that your talk with her went well. And, I''m really glad that the last part of my previous post was off-base!
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I hope things went okay. Sending you good vibes!
 
Ally,

Another thing to remember is that when you get married, you are starting a new family...with new traditions.
 
Ally, I feel so badly that you are in this situation. I''ve been following your thread, but didn''t post because I really didn''t have anything to add that wasn''t said...but I do wish you luck with this situation.

Whatever you end up doing, at least take heart knowing that your life with your FI is going to be wonderful, happy, full of honesty, and even though she was selfish and caused all these bad feelings, she will get hers.
 
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...but seriously, now.
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I am having a hard time trying to find the words to describe how this situation is hitting me, because most things I''ve come up with are certainly not polite enough to post in a public forum.
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Ally, I am so very, very sorry about you having to experience what your family is deeming appropriate behavior right now. Sad that your sister and FBIL don''t see it this way, but you cannot change what they have done to hurt you. For what it''s worth, I hope your talk with your sister went as well as it could have gone. If it were me in your shoes, my MO from this point on would be that I would do whatever I wanted, all familial ties aside. You are building a new life with a person you love, and you should not have to deal with unreasonable demands and added stress like this. Keep your date or elope if you choose, just do everything you choose out of what your heart tells you to. It really is, when the day is done, just one party commemorating one event in one lifetime. Whether you have that party for 40 or 400, hold it in Vegas or on an island or at the venue you booked, it''s really just one party. You have a whole lifetime waiting for you afterwards with your man in which you can build your own traditions and values to suit. I hope you are able to resolve this with as much class and dignity as you have shown here in your posts. Be strong, lean on good friends and close relatives you can trust, and post often.

Just think of the anniversary parties you''ll be having for years to come and how good ol'' Sis has probably been divorced multiple times already!
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Ally, I hope your talk went well last night. I have just a few things to tell you...

First of all, I LOVE the place you booked way more than the one she booked....hers looks stuffy and pretentious, while yours is beautiful, happy, romantic, etc etc etc. And I''m really not just saying that because I''m fuming mad at your sister right now.
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Secondly, I love what Appletini said a few posts back...remember, with your wedding, you will be starting a NEW FAMILY! With new traditions, and new opportunities for loving and respectful relationships.

Which brings me to my third point...you have to remain true to yourself. Even if whatever ends up happening pisses a lot of your family off, you will have a brand new family with Hockeyguy to fall back on. Isn''t it great to know that you have at least one person in this world who will love and support you in this, no matter what? So I think you should do what your heart tells you, whether it''s keeping your date as planned, or eloping to Italy, or having your wedding earlier in 2008 than hers. But I certainly don''t think you should just give in, because this pattern of Ally the submissive "good" sister has got to be broken. And I think this is a great opportunity to do so...this is your WEDDING, for goodness sake! This is yours and hockeyguy''s day, and no one else has a right to make to conform to their desires for it.
 
Date: 1/25/2007 10:44:46 AM
Author: HOUMedGal

First of all, I LOVE the place you booked way more than the one she booked
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I second this! Your place is magical and hers is, well, predictable.
 
Date: 1/23/2007 7:14:18 PM
Author: decodelighted
Aw Man!! I can''t leave this alone!
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a) her and her fiance want to buy a house together, and they can''t until they are married
why? who says? didn''t you & hockey guy buy something together before you were engaged?? maybe i''m wrong -- but this is a problem she''s making up herself

b) she wants to have children, and I''m unsure, so her getting married before hand would give her a few years with her man before they start trying for children.
the girl is 24??!!! this is ridiculous!! you have to wait another year to have your wedding so she can enjoy an EXTRA year w/o kids?? UNBELIEVABLE!!!

c) she thinks it would be too much for her to have a wedding and buy a house in the same year.
boo hoo
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... most people would trade ''problems'' with her in a heartbeat. She''s so spoiled she doesn''t even know how RIDICULOUS this sounds to, uh, adults.

d) She doesn''t feel like I am wedding-crazed anyways, so it wouldn''t make a difference to me if I waited another year. well this ''point'' is entirely moot because - guess what - it DOES matter to you. Too bad she thinks it ''shouldn''t'' HA! The nerve!!

Honestly, I''d like to join Firegoddess in the line to smack her.
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Amen wow she has some gall to be that selfish!! Your her sister she is really taking advantage of how you have never really been assertive. I just think its really wrong of her and I hope you stand up for yourself and continue to do so. This is going to sound dumb but maybe you should start reading up on being assertive and the power of saying no maybe even seek a counselor who can help you on your journey because honestly it sounds like people have been pushing on you for a while and I just hope you can remedy the situation...permenantly.
 
Ally,
I don''t understand the Viet culture. I can kind of understand the "losing face" part.....don''t agree, but can understand some.

a) her and her fiance want to buy a house together, and they can''t until they are married

Could his parents start buying the house now in only HIS name. Her name could be put on after the wedding?

b) she wants to have children, and I''m unsure, so her getting married before hand would give her a few years with her man before they start trying for children.

She''s 24!!!!! She has PLENTY of time to have kids.

c) she thinks it would be too much for her to have a wedding and buy a house in the same year.

See above

d) She doesn''t feel like I am wedding-crazed anyways, so it wouldn''t make a difference to me if I waited another year.

Ummmm...you''ve wanted many years. How long has she been with her guy?

The background here is that my parents REALLY don''t like this guy. The stories go on forever: he lied about having a job, abusive, and didn''t ask them permission to marry her (a big no-no in our culture) they refused to plan an engagement party, and I threw her one over the Christmas break.
b) she made the request on December 26th ot 27th, therefore, it is quite possible that she sent out save the dates already. She''s had all of January to decide on how to move on this, having correctly interpreted my reluctance to give in.

Did YOU make a request? Does this even mean anything in Viet culture or am I reading too much into this?


 
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