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Date: 10/10/2006 9:25:16 PM
Author: Mandarine
It pretty much says that everything that happens in YOUR life is YOUR responsibility and only you had the power to change something in your life if you are not happy with it. That applies perfectly to relationships...is not why he did or said that...is what am I going to do with that and feeling responsible for your decisions and self empowerment.
Mandarine - Yes! I 100% agree with this. It''s just that sometimes we need reminding that, hey, I have a say in this too, and my opinion matters. The only person I have control over is myself - my own actions and reactions. That''s exactly what I went into last night thinking.

So, now, for the update... Things went REALLY, REALLY good last night! And, in part, that''s thanks to you ladies - both the tough love and the well wishes were tremendously helpful. I can''t remember exactly who said that he was always changing the subject on me, and he did that last night! It actually took about 5-6 tries to really get him to realize that I needed answers and I was serious this time, but once he realized that I wasn''t just going to roll over and fall for his mushy routine, he got real with me, which is what I wanted.

Moving: Sounds like the NC thing might not happen as fast as he thought. After talking with some more of his colleagues, it seems as though a new finance director has it out for him because he''s got one of the highest salaries, so transferring may not even be an option. He''s gonna talk to his boss to see what the possibilities are, but after 48 hours to think about it, he''s realized that it would probably be silly to move to NC when he could end up losing his job anyway. So, we actually talked last night about where we would move, since neither of us see ourselves being in Pittsburgh for forever. We''ve got it narrowed to a list of 4 cities, and he''s gonna put feelers out and see what''s available in the places that we''re both interested in living.

Parents/Religion: Many of you ladies have pointed out that I hadn''t answered any questions about the religious differences and what his parents thought, but that''s because until last night, I didn''t know. We talked about his parents feelings toward our relationship, and he said that I''m the only girl they''ve ever asked about. They really like me, etc. I specifically asked how they felt about our different religious backgrounds, and he said that they know I make him happy, and that''s what''s important to them.

Marriage: Now, for what you''ve all been waiting for!! Last night, he actually said the words, "I want to marry you." And, I finally got a reason why he''s not ready. He said he''s "not ready to share". He basically feels like this is his last chance at freedom before settling down and having kids. He doesn''t understand why people can''t just be happy with where they are, and is worried that once we get married, people are gonna be pressuring us into having kids right away. Ironically, these are the EXACT same reasons that he was worried about me moving here, and that''s gone better than he could ever imagine. Promises are a HUGE deal to him. He''s probably made 3 or 4 total promises to me the entire time we''ve known each other, so when he says, "I promise...." it''s a really big deal, and he means it and follows through on it. Last night, he made two promises! First, he promised that if we were looking at moving to another city, we''d talk about moving the timeline up for getting engaged/being married because he does understand that I can''t move without being his wife or fiance. Second, I again asked what type of a timeline he was looking at, and he of course hemmed, hawwed, etc. Then, I point blank asked, do you think we''ll be married before I turn 30? He said, how old are you again? (He does know how old I am, but under the stress of the moment, he forgot.) I said 27, I''m 28 in April. Without hesitation, he said, yes, definitely, I promise we will definitely be married before you''re 30. So, that''s 2 1/2 years away... He and I will definitely be married sometime in the next 2 1/2 years. That''s a little longer than I had hoped for, but if that''s the timeframe he needs, then I''m willing to work with that.

So, what am I gonna do now? Well, last night he said that he didn''t really think about "it" (marriage/engagement) that much, so I asked him if he could, for me, really start to think about it. He agreed. So, for now, now that I have some answers, I''m gonna back off and give him some time and space to think about things. He said he would, and I''m not gonna drive him nuts asking about it all the time. Once we get close to March, if we haven''t gotten to the point where we''re looking at rings and he''s taking some initiative, I''ll bring things up again. So, that''s where it stands, and I feel really happy that I stood up for myself and got some input as to where he is with things. Thanks again ladies for all of your help!
 
Date: 10/10/2006 9:25:16 PM
Author: Mandarine
It pretty much says that everything that happens in YOUR life is YOUR responsibility and only you had the power to change something in your life if you are not happy with it. That applies perfectly to relationships...is not why he did or said that...is what am I going to do with that and feeling responsible for your decisions and self empowerment.
Mandarine - Yes! I 100% agree with this. It''s just that sometimes we need reminding that, hey, I have a say in this too, and my opinion matters. The only person I have control over is myself - my own actions and reactions. That''s exactly what I went into last night thinking.

So, now, for the update... Things went REALLY, REALLY good last night! And, in part, that''s thanks to you ladies - both the tough love and the well wishes were tremendously helpful. I can''t remember exactly who said that he was always changing the subject on me, and he did that last night! It actually took about 5-6 tries to really get him to realize that I needed answers and I was serious this time, but once he realized that I wasn''t just going to roll over and fall for his mushy routine, he got real with me, which is what I wanted.


Moving: Sounds like the NC thing might not happen as fast as he thought. After talking with some more of his colleagues, it seems as though a new finance director has it out for him because he''s got one of the highest salaries, so transferring may not even be an option. He''s gonna talk to his boss to see what the possibilities are, but after 48 hours to think about it, he''s realized that it would probably be silly to move to NC when he could end up losing his job anyway. So, we actually talked last night about where we would move, since neither of us see ourselves being in Pittsburgh for forever. We''ve got it narrowed to a list of 4 cities, and he''s gonna put feelers out and see what''s available in the places that we''re both interested in living.


Parents/Religion: Many of you ladies have pointed out that I hadn''t answered any questions about the religious differences and what his parents thought, but that''s because until last night, I didn''t know. We talked about his parents feelings toward our relationship, and he said that I''m the only girl they''ve ever asked about. They really like me, etc. I specifically asked how they felt about our different religious backgrounds, and he said that they know I make him happy, and that''s what''s important to them.


Marriage: Now, for what you''ve all been waiting for!! Last night, he actually said the words, "I want to marry you." And, I finally got a reason why he''s not ready. He said he''s "not ready to share". He basically feels like this is his last chance at freedom before settling down and having kids. He doesn''t understand why people can''t just be happy with where they are, and is worried that once we get married, people are gonna be pressuring us into having kids right away. Ironically, these are the EXACT same reasons that he was worried about me moving here, and that''s gone better than he could ever imagine. Promises are a HUGE deal to him. He''s probably made 3 or 4 total promises to me the entire time we''ve known each other, so when he says, "I promise...." it''s a really big deal, and he means it and follows through on it. Last night, he made two promises! First, he promised that if we were looking at moving to another city, we''d talk about moving the timeline up for getting engaged/being married because he does understand that I can''t move without being his wife or fiance. Second, I again asked what type of a timeline he was looking at, and he of course hemmed, hawwed, etc. Then, I point blank asked, do you think we''ll be married before I turn 30? He said, how old are you again? (He does know how old I am, but under the stress of the moment, he forgot.) I said 27, I''m 28 in April. Without hesitation, he said, yes, definitely, I promise we will definitely be married before you''re 30. So, that''s 2 1/2 years away... He and I will definitely be married sometime in the next 2 1/2 years. That''s a little longer than I had hoped for, but if that''s the timeframe he needs, then I''m willing to work with that.


So, what am I gonna do now? Well, last night he said that he didn''t really think about "it" (marriage/engagement) that much, so I asked him if he could, for me, really start to think about it. He agreed. So, for now, now that I have some answers, I''m gonna back off and give him some time and space to think about things. He said he would, and I''m not gonna drive him nuts asking about it all the time. Once we get close to March, if we haven''t gotten to the point where we''re looking at rings and he''s taking some initiative, I''ll bring things up again. So, that''s where it stands, and I feel really happy that I stood up for myself and got some input as to where he is with things. Thanks again ladies for all of your help!

 
oops! my internet got all jacked up, and it posted the same message twice! can''t figure out how to delete one of them... sorry!
 
hi becky, that sounds great. I'm happy you stood up for yourself and asked every question and didn't let him wiggle out. At least your bf does answer questions when cornered, mine goes catatonic. It sounds like you have a long timeline to get married, so you can afford to give him some space. I'm happy it worked out well. Good thing he's not moving to NC so soon, better to establish things where you are and hopefully get him to feel more comfortable with "sharing".
Meanwhile my situation is getting a little more stressful as my nov1 deadline approaches, I'm starting to worry he'll let me down and I'll be in this bad cycle again. I've started to let my exterior crack and show my stress and anxiety/ask questions which I'd hoped to keep wrapped up, but it's hard. It's so unfair at times. Anyway, didn't mean to temporarily hijack, just feeling a little down today (this has affected my self esteem) and wanted to vent.
Anyway, things are looking much better this week for you than last..hooray!
 
YAY! progress is wonderful. At least you know its in the cards. Thats whats important. CONGRATS!!!
 
Please make sure to let him know that wedding planning takes a year, minimum. Guys don''t realize this, and think it only takes a few months to book a location, photographer, etc.

Be sure to tell him that he needs to leave you a full year to a year and a half for wedding planning AFTER the date you two are engaged.
 
Date: 10/11/2006 9:58:12 AM
Author: always.waiting
hi becky, that sounds great. I''m happy you stood up for yourself and asked every question and didn''t let him wiggle out. At least your bf does answer questions when cornered, mine goes catatonic. It sounds like you have a long timeline to get married, so you can afford to give him some space. I''m happy it worked out well. Good thing he''s not moving to NC so soon, better to establish things where you are and hopefully get him to feel more comfortable with ''sharing''.
Meanwhile my situation is getting a little more stressful as my nov1 deadline approaches, I''m starting to worry he''ll let me down and I''ll be in this bad cycle again. I''ve started to let my exterior crack and show my stress and anxiety/ask questions which I''d hoped to keep wrapped up, but it''s hard. It''s so unfair at times. Anyway, didn''t mean to temporarily hijack, just feeling a little down today (this has affected my self esteem) and wanted to vent.
Anyway, things are looking much better this week for you than last..hooray!

always.waiting - sorry to hear things are stressful for you! I''ve been following your threads, and have been hoping for the best for you! The thing that''s been helping me with everything is really to focus myself inward rather than outward. The only person I can control is myself - I can''t force my boyfriend to propose or marry me. But, I can control how I allow him to treat me, and what I do with my free time. Ever since I sent him that letter, I have really been focusing on building a support base here in Pittsburgh. I have a bunch of acquaintances, and I''ve been getting together more often with them and am starting to feel like I have some friends and a life outside my bf. I think it''s so important to retain a sense of self so that you don''t feel that he has the power over you. Last night was so liberating! I had been feeling like he held all the power and as a result, I had been essentially playing the part of a victim. Last night, that power shifted, and now it feels like we are on an even playing field again. Rather than sitting around stressed out and worrying, I hope you can find a way to connect with friends and family who will support you in the decisions you''re in the process of making. Just going out for dinner and drinks without him can help calm things down a little bit. I always feel more confident after I''ve been hanging out with friends, and it gives him a little time to miss you and see what his nights would be like without you there by his side.. Anyway, I wish you all the best! Keep up updated.

Alexis - Thanks!
Galateia - Oh yes! He will be informed of that... but, not right now.. gotta back off for a few months, give him some space/time to process everything...
 
Date: 10/11/2006 10:08:48 AM
Author: Galateia

Be sure to tell him that he needs to leave you a full year to a year and a half for wedding planning AFTER the date you two are engaged.
Haha... Gala, that was my first thought too... guys really are kind of clueless about that stuff sometimes!!

Congrats, Becky... sounds like you really came into the conversation with a clear and objective mindset, which is how you were able to identify the subject-changes and avoidance and put a stop to it! I'm glad you were able to have such an open, honest conversation with him... and I hope you were able to use more directive statements such as "I want this..." or "I care about..." rather than just asking questions, because sometimes that can be even more powerful. For example, "I want to be married before I'm 30. That means I'd like to get engaged when I'm 28, to give us at least a year of planning. I turn 28 in April." It helps him understand that this isn't all about HIM and what works best for him... this is about YOU, too.

Either way, you made some really important headway personally AND in your relationship, and I'm SO glad you're feeling better about everything!! Keep us updated...
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Becky - sounds like you did it girl! you stuck to your guns.
I agree with Galateia --definitely bring up the time it takes to plan a wedding. Guys have NO clue.

Hope everything progresses smoothly from now on.
 
okay first off...i am DYING laughing here. why? because your bf is such a FRIGGIN MAN!!!! he doesn''t think about marriage much?!?!?! oh my everloving lord! these guys! while women are over here pulling their hair out and practically committing themselves, i can guarantee you there are a ton of men out there going ''yeah i just don''t think of it much''. nothing in your post underscored the venus vs mars thing more for me than that one little innocent line.

so yes if he isn''t thinking of it much then hello how have you two been on such separate pages for so long. have you let him change the subject EVERY TIME this came up??? just from an advice perspective, sounds like you two need to work on having better communication on the important stuff. and kudos for sticking to your guns and not letting him wiggle out of the conversation, but here''s a question for you, why is he so darn evasive when you try to pinpoint him down? why does he need to feel like he has to change the subject? that would drive me absolutely batty. if you want to talk about it, making jokes or giving you compliments or changing the subject to me is just disrespectful. after a while i''d be like hey, buddy, quit. also, what a typical guy to somehow think that once you guys get married you have to have kids. we have been married for 3 years and don''t intend to have kids for at least 2 more if at all. it is possible to not suddenly start popping out children once you receive your marriage licsense.
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did you tell him that?

but anyway, that said...CONGRATS on sticking to your guns and getting some answers!! it is kind of interesting that he says if you guys move anywhere for a job or whatever that you will go as a fiance or wife, but if you don''t move then his timeline is 2 years. if you move in 6 months sounds like he could be ready in 6 months to pop the Q, so why if you don''t move it''s 2 years? and yes make sure he understands wedding planning takes a year. so really he has 1.5 years. maybe. at least it sounds like you two had a REAL conversation, and can''t they be kind of fun when the two of you are really into the discussion?? greg and i typically have dinners where we have big convos, and we end up doing any serious talking about like moving or our plans or whatever over long dinners out and i love it. it gets us out of the daily grind of the house and all that and kind of puts us in a different mindset, plus then we get an enjoyable dinner out of it. also i have fond memories because it was over a dinner at an italian place where he told me (after a 1/2 carafe of wine all on his own!) that he was ''way more ready to get married that i would think, and i should just take him to look at rings already''. ummm okay. i don''t need to be told twice. the next weekend we went on a weekend trip and while there ''oh honey look at this cute jewelry store'' was all she wrote.
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best of luck becky and keep us posted.
 
Congratulations Becky! I''m so glad you two worked it out. I thought he''d step up to the plate :)

It sounds like very good progress.
 
Date: 10/11/2006 11:25:27 AM
Author: Mara
okay first off...i am DYING laughing here. why? because your bf is such a FRIGGIN MAN!!!! he doesn''t think about marriage much?!?!?! oh my everloving lord! these guys! while women are over here pulling their hair out and practically committing themselves, i can guarantee you there are a ton of men out there going ''yeah i just don''t think of it much''. nothing in your post underscored the venus vs mars thing more for me than that one little innocent line.

so yes if he isn''t thinking of it much then hello how have you two been on such separate pages for so long. have you let him change the subject EVERY TIME this came up??? just from an advice perspective, sounds like you two need to work on having better communication on the important stuff. and kudos for sticking to your guns and not letting him wiggle out of the conversation, but here''s a question for you, why is he so darn evasive when you try to pinpoint him down? why does he need to feel like he has to change the subject? that would drive me absolutely batty. if you want to talk about it, making jokes or giving you compliments or changing the subject to me is just disrespectful. after a while i''d be like hey, buddy, quit. also, what a typical guy to somehow think that once you guys get married you have to have kids. we have been married for 3 years and don''t intend to have kids for at least 2 more if at all. it is possible to not suddenly start popping out children once you receive your marriage licsense.
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did you tell him that?

but anyway, that said...CONGRATS on sticking to your guns and getting some answers!! it is kind of interesting that he says if you guys move anywhere for a job or whatever that you will go as a fiance or wife, but if you don''t move then his timeline is 2 years. if you move in 6 months sounds like he could be ready in 6 months to pop the Q, so why if you don''t move it''s 2 years? and yes make sure he understands wedding planning takes a year. so really he has 1.5 years. maybe. at least it sounds like you two had a REAL conversation, and can''t they be kind of fun when the two of you are really into the discussion?? greg and i typically have dinners where we have big convos, and we end up doing any serious talking about like moving or our plans or whatever over long dinners out and i love it. it gets us out of the daily grind of the house and all that and kind of puts us in a different mindset, plus then we get an enjoyable dinner out of it. also i have fond memories because it was over a dinner at an italian place where he told me (after a 1/2 carafe of wine all on his own!) that he was ''way more ready to get married that i would think, and i should just take him to look at rings already''. ummm okay. i don''t need to be told twice. the next weekend we went on a weekend trip and while there ''oh honey look at this cute jewelry store'' was all she wrote.
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best of luck becky and keep us posted.
OK, first of all, your post had me rolling on the floor laughing so hard! Yes, he is such a "guy''s guy" it''s ridiculous. Basically, in his mind, when we get married, I''m gonna chain him into the house, not let him see his friends, and start popping out babies. I did my best to refute that misconception last night. I expect us to both still see our friends! It''s important! And, I told him that I don''t want to have kids until we''ve been married at least 5 years. So, I could see a sense of relief come over him when I said that.

I gave ya''ll the edited version earlier b/c the post was already long enough. But, the discussion as far as engagement last night was basically, I promise that if/when a position comes available where we''d have to move, then we will take that next step. So, me being bold and brave with my fellow LIW''s behind me said, well, what if we don''t move? Then when will we take the next step? He choked, didn''t have an answer, so I decide to re-phrase and try again. That''s when I went for the, do you think we''ll be married before I turn 30 line - having thought it out in my head how long that would be... If his reaction had been different, that would have been my cue to walk away.

Having a real discussion about it was such a relief! I finally feel like I have some answers, and I think he''s happy that I''m not gonna keep bugging him all the time. I told him that now that I had some real answers, I''d back off and give him some time. AND, when he inevitably does get to the point that he''s ready to look at rings, I know exactly which jewelry store to suggest... the one with the perfect ring! Hey, does anyone know if rings get discontinued or anything? I''d hate to go looking in 6 or 9 months and then be like, shooo, the ring I loved is no longer being made... how much of a bummer would that be?

Well, thanks Mara! I always hold my breath when I see that you''ve replied because I know you''ll give it to me straight. And, although sometimes it''s hard to hear what you''re saying, I think it''s important that we''re able to tell each other the truth about what we see in each other''s relationships.
 

I totally know what you are going through. My Bf and I live together, we have for over a year we are going on 2 years total. I feel like he gets everything so why buy the cow??? I have been dropping hints and have been doing things to see it my way. But I can''t force him to give me a ring. I was all prepared to move out at our 2 year mark and then, he got me a puppy. :) So I have to think of another course of action. :)


Patience is a virtue. You must rely on it in order to get to where you want to go. Its like getting a degree, you have to work hard at it, study for it and have patience that someday you will eventually get there. :)


ALEXIS wrote the above (I do not know how to quote) sorry...

Anyway. He got you a puppy so you stayed? Oh my..

My situation is living together for over 2 years, just about on 3 years and there will NEV ER be a proposal.. What I do in way of hints though is WAAAAAy different from you girls... I go and look at houses for me to purchase solo, buy things for the house I don''t have yet... slack on being his live-in wife (Heck, he wants underwear clean - he can wash them) and the dishes and what ever else a wifey does!! He wants me as the g/f then I will act as just that. (OH btw, just to clarify, our relationship is perfect besides him not wanting to get married) How perfect is that you may say ?? I''''m not sure either ;)

But, maybe you ladies could try my antics? I am serious though.
 
Patchee-

You said there will NEVER be a proposal? Are you okay with that? Just because he gave you a dog doesn''t mean you have to stay together. You can take the dog with you when you move into your new home. It was a gift.

I TOTALLY understand about slacking on the house chores. My bf and I do NOT live together yet, and I refuse to live together until we are engaged and have a date set. He does all the chores around his house - except I help with the dishes. He cooks me dinner nearly every night, so after we eat, I rinse everything and put it in the dishwasher. If I don''t eat there, I don''t do the dishes. I never wash his laundry or dust or vacuum or clean the bathrooms. His bathroom is so gross I can''t even stand to go in there. So, what do I do? I use the other bathroom downstairs.
 
Well first off congrats!
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At least you know it will happen within a certain time frame. Also if you did have to move to NC I just wanted to let you know how much DH and I love it here. It is a really great place to live. Good luck!
 
In reply to religion difference, I think you need to consider on this.

Like Christian (Catholic, Protestan, Scientology.. etc) there a few different "teaching" of Muslim. Some permit Man or Woman to marry a different religion partner and some does not. If she / he want''s to get married, the parner must convert to Muslim.

Some people are Muslim but they don''t practise. But still they practise other Islamic / Arabic custom. (please correct me if I am wrong)

I hope it is not one of the reason why he s hesitant to propose.
 
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