Absolutely NO marriage momentum

[Becky P]

Date: 10/6/2006 9:06:53 PM
Author: ladykemma
ball''s in your court. what is talented, smart, educated becky going to do with her wonderful life?

you have bought yourself six months to grieve, see reality, make decisions, plans, get your stuff quietly out of his house. your path will become clear.

edited to add: see reality

ladykemma- your words hit a nerve. but, that may be because you''re spot on. only time will tell. I think that your honest, to the point response made me realize that I really need to be ready to walk away. I''m not quite there yet, but I''m working on it. And, I''ve been spending most of this weekend getting out there and hanging out with some, hopefully, new friends - since I just moved here, I don''t quite have the support network of good girlfriends yet.

He did tell me back in July that he just thought that one day he would wake up and be ready. And, then, that day he would go out, buy a ring, and propose.

On another note, I was out wandering around some shops with some girlfriends today, and we happened past a jewelry store with beautiful jewelry in the windows... They had some emerald cuts, and I hadn''t been able to find a store with one to try it on to see how it looked, so one of the girls was like, let''s go in. So, we did. The lady showed me the emerald, which looked okay, and then she said, you should try on this one... and, she pulled out this ring that didn''t look like anything special, and the second it was on my finger, I was near tears! It was SO beautiful! I took it off and was like, take this away. This is it! It''s perfect! I was literally almost crying there in the store, and I have found THE ring. I so want to happen by there with him one day and find a way to make him think it''s his idea to go in and just "see what they have" so that I can show him this beautiful, perfect ring! But, I know I need to just back off for a little bit here. I''ve got this fairy tale going in my head and need, to quote ladykemma, "see reality". lol I will have to try to find a pic of the ring and put it on here...

Thank you all for your various thoughts - it may be a little before there''s truly an update, but I really appreciate the sounding board!

 

[Ellen]

I don't normally venture in here, I guess because I can't relate well to the topic. No disrespect meant here. I just never dreamed of being married, never dreamed of a big wedding, nothing. Even after I started dating my (now) husband (of 24 years) I never really thought much about it. Of course he proposed after a year, not that long. Maybe I would have become frustrated had he waited longer, I dunno.

At any rate, I read this whole thread, and I say this with the utmost sincerity Becky. After all this time, and the discussions, then the letter, which you forced him to talk about, you then point blank asked him this:

" do you think that 6 months for you to seriously think about the future of this relationship is fair?"

And he replied:

"well, I can tell you one thing, "Your future and my future are definitely together."

He never answered the question.

I'm sorry, but to me, that would have been my answer.


You seem like a really sweet person. Someone that should not have to "force" a man into deciding if/when you two will ever be together. And what is the most you will possibly have in 6 months? Him saying yes, we will get married, someday? Will you then have to wait forever, then give another deadline to have a ring on your finger? Then wait again, and possibly give one more for the actual date? Just something to think about, as I think it's entirely within the realm of possibilities....


I wish you all the best.

 

[firebirdgold]

I think sometimes we forget what the actual point is. It's not about getting engaged, or a ring, or even a wedding. It's about being married and having a successful marriage.
We all know marriage is hard work. Remembering how excited and happy you were to get married helps when things start getting rough.

I've asked both of my parents a number of times why they were still together and not divorced. (sometimes that really baffles my sister and I

) Whichever parent I've asked at the time looks at me like I'm nuts and says 'Because we love each other'. They've each told me a number of times the story about how they got engaged and married with this distant happy look in their eyes. What are you going to tell your daughter about you and your bf getting engaged?

I used to think their answer was nuts until I met my fi. Actually until our first real argument. Suddenly I realized that whatever we were arguing about was trivial compared to the one fundamental truth: we love each other. Since then we haven't had a single argument over five minutes in length. We're both excited about being married and calling each other husband and wife. In the future when we're an old married couple (and he worked through our 20th anniversary or I blew our budget... again) we'll still remember how this felt, and we'll still remember the one important truth.

I guess the point is that if it's not easy now... how will you guys manage when you get to the really hard part?

 

[phoenixgirl]

I so want to happen by there with him one day and find a way to make him think it's his idea to go in and just "see what they have" so that I can show him this beautiful, perfect ring!

When my students try to do something they shouldn't, I make a buzzer sound, like they've gotten a question wrong on a game show. That was my reaction when I read this sentence. [Insert buzzer sound here] This is a man who couldn't even bring up the email you sent him . . . I do not think just happening into the store is going to help the matter.

I don't think it's healthy to look at engagement rings when you have received the answer of not even being ready to respond to your request. He hasn't said anything like, "Well, look at rings and tell me what you like, and when I'm ready, I'll know what to get you." Obviously we all understand the obsession with lovely finger bling, but I think you're just getting your hopes up instead of gathering the courage to leave. I think it's ok to hope that he'll buy you some kind of diamond jewelry as a token of his love and to satisfy your bling craving, but it's really not a good idea to start looking for "the ring" and using your brother's wedding as an excuse to secretly plan your own.

I think you should be preparing now to leave as soon as the deadline is up. It will be hard enough to grieve the relationship and your hopes for the future without having to worry about moving and getting a new job. It's always good to have a plan B. Not that this is a great analogy, but once I was stuck teaching in a horrible school and was trying to get a transfer to a better one. My hope was that the transfer would work out, but I had to make a plan B, so I took the GRE's and started applying to grad schools and interviewing at neighboring counties. I knew what I would do in case my transfer fell through.

When is your lease up? I assume that since your only reason for moving there was him, that if you ended the relationship, you'd move elsewhere, maybe near family or a best friend? Also, start making contacts and looking at job listings wherever that place may be.

Again, this isn't the same situation, but I had a really hard time getting my husband to agree to my getting a diamond band to replace my old band. I hinted and pleaded and waited through one great opportunity to "surprise" me with it after another. Finally it just came down to me declaring that we would use a credit on our card to buy it. So I understand how men can be dufuses and can miss what is important to you, so you need to knock them over the head with it. Still, I think the point is that getting engaged and married shouldn't just be important to one of you. He shouldn't do it to make you happy -- he should do it because it makes him happy to become a little family unit with you.

I can get longwinded so here is a summation of my advice:

*avoid jewelry stores and put your search for a ring on hold until you have a man who expresses interest in knowing what kind of a ring you want (focus on earrings or something else to satisfy your diamond fix until marriage feels right to both parties)
*make a plan B
*let go of your expectations . . . if he comes around, great, but you can't force it to happen

 

[ladykemma]

Date: 10/7/2006 7:24:54 PM
Author: Becky P

Date: 10/6/2006 9:06:53 PM
Author: ladykemma
ball''s in your court. what is talented, smart, educated becky going to do with her wonderful life?

you have bought yourself six months to grieve, see reality, make decisions, plans, get your stuff quietly out of his house. your path will become clear.

edited to add: see reality

ladykemma- your words hit a nerve. but, that may be because you''re spot on. only time will tell. I think that your honest, to the point response made me realize that I really need to be ready to walk away. I''m not quite there yet, but I''m working on it. And, I''ve been spending most of this weekend getting out there and hanging out with some, hopefully, new friends - since I just moved here, I don''t quite have the support network of good girlfriends yet.

He did tell me back in July that he just thought that one day he would wake up and be ready. And, then, that day he would go out, buy a ring, and propose.

On another note, I was out wandering around some shops with some girlfriends today, and we happened past a jewelry store with beautiful jewelry in the windows... They had some emerald cuts, and I hadn''t been able to find a store with one to try it on to see how it looked, so one of the girls was like, let''s go in. So, we did. The lady showed me the emerald, which looked okay, and then she said, you should try on this one... and, she pulled out this ring that didn''t look like anything special, and the second it was on my finger, I was near tears! It was SO beautiful! I took it off and was like, take this away. This is it! It''s perfect! I was literally almost crying there in the store, and I have found THE ring. I so want to happen by there with him one day and find a way to make him think it''s his idea to go in and just ''see what they have'' so that I can show him this beautiful, perfect ring! But, I know I need to just back off for a little bit here. I''ve got this fairy tale going in my head and need, to quote ladykemma, ''see reality''. lol I will have to try to find a pic of the ring and put it on here...

Thank you all for your various thoughts - it may be a little before there''s truly an update, but I really appreciate the sounding board!

buy it for yourself. monday.

 

[phoenixgirl]

P.S. You mentioned earlier that "to your knowledge," a Muslim man can marry a non-Muslim woman, which makes it sound like you don''t really know if this is an issue for him or what he feels is expected of him. Have you guys spoken about having different religions and what that means for wedding ceremonies and children and attending or not attending services? This might be a bigger impediment than you realize.

 

[Christa]

Date: 10/8/2006 8:07:42 PM
Author: ladykemma

Date: 10/7/2006 7:24:54 PM
Author: Becky P


ladykemma- your words hit a nerve. but, that may be because you''re spot on. only time will tell. I think that your honest, to the point response made me realize that I really need to be ready to walk away. I''m not quite there yet, but I''m working on it. And, I''ve been spending most of this weekend getting out there and hanging out with some, hopefully, new friends - since I just moved here, I don''t quite have the support network of good girlfriends yet.

He did tell me back in July that he just thought that one day he would wake up and be ready. And, then, that day he would go out, buy a ring, and propose.

On another note, I was out wandering around some shops with some girlfriends today, and we happened past a jewelry store with beautiful jewelry in the windows... They had some emerald cuts, and I hadn''t been able to find a store with one to try it on to see how it looked, so one of the girls was like, let''s go in. So, we did. The lady showed me the emerald, which looked okay, and then she said, you should try on this one... and, she pulled out this ring that didn''t look like anything special, and the second it was on my finger, I was near tears! It was SO beautiful! I took it off and was like, take this away. This is it! It''s perfect! I was literally almost crying there in the store, and I have found THE ring. I so want to happen by there with him one day and find a way to make him think it''s his idea to go in and just ''see what they have'' so that I can show him this beautiful, perfect ring! But, I know I need to just back off for a little bit here. I''ve got this fairy tale going in my head and need, to quote ladykemma, ''see reality''. lol I will have to try to find a pic of the ring and put it on here...

Thank you all for your various thoughts - it may be a little before there''s truly an update, but I really appreciate the sounding board!

buy it for yourself. monday.

Love it, LadyKemma!

 

[firebirdgold]

I agree, go get your ring!

 

[ladykemma]

one of the life lessons wimmen have to learn, especially when they marry, is that they still have to meet their own needs. go meet your own needs. he isn't going to.

wasn't there a book, "men are just dessert?"

'I so want to happen by there with him one day and find a way to make him think it's his idea to go in and just 'see what they have' so that I can show him this beautiful, perfect ring! '

and this is called manipulation!

edited for the third time - is there any way you could go for a walk, and say I want to show you something. It could be a cultural thing that he doesn't know about engagement rings. saY "THIS IS WHAT i WANT." Be clear, men are not mind readers.

expectations are pre-meditated resentments.

 

[WTNLVR]

To get a male perspective, I ran your situation by hubby. In his opinion, this man has no intention of moving forward in the relationship. I hope he is wrong for your sake, it is only 1 males opinion after all. I wouldn''t buy the ring myself. Any man would be really upset and demasculated by that I think. And who wants the memory of actually buying it without his input, etc...Good luck.

 

[tulip928]

Date: 10/8/2006 9:09:46 PM
Author: phoenixgirl
P.S. You mentioned earlier that ''to your knowledge,'' a Muslim man can marry a non-Muslim woman, which makes it sound like you don''t really know if this is an issue for him or what he feels is expected of him. Have you guys spoken about having different religions and what that means for wedding ceremonies and children and attending or not attending services? This might be a bigger impediment than you realize.

You are so right, phoenixgirl! This should be a GIANT consideration.

 

[Becky P]

New info... he just told me last night that there''s a rumor his territory might be eliminated by his company, and they should know by the first of the year. So, he might be looking for a new job here in the next few months. He''s VERY stressed.

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 10/9/2006 8:15:16 AM
Author: Becky P
New info... he just told me last night that there's a rumor his territory might be eliminated by his company, and they should know by the first of the year. So, he might be looking for a new job here in the next few months. He's VERY stressed.

becky, he's giving you another huge sign/excuse that he's not ready and nothing is going to happen any time soon. I agree with everything phoenixgirl said above. Wrong expectations always lead to unmet expectations which always lead to frustration. Expecting/hoping he's going to wake up and say lets go into this jeweler store today and look at rings is a wrong expectation IMO and you're only setting yourself up for future heartache and disappointment. The cultural/religious thing could be playing a part but he should have communicated that to you long before now, heck before you moved to live near him. I'm not one for huge deadlines. He either wants to marry you or he doesn't and being unsure with no real timeline after 4 years would be the same as he doesn't in my book. You want to be married, go find someone who wants to be married too. they are out there

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 10/9/2006 7:14:48 AM
Author: WTNLVR
I wouldn''t buy the ring myself. Any man would be really upset and demasculated by that I think. And who wants the memory of actually buying it without his input, etc...Good luck.

i agree with this too in this situation.

 

[Butterflies]

Have you guys talked about the religious differences and if that is an obstacle for you two? Have you met his parents? Do they approve of your relationship? Not that they have to approve but many guys won't take that next step if their parents are not 'on board'. There is a book I read called "He's Scared, She's Scared" and talks about people with commitment issues. There was one example of a man who was muslim and was dating this girl that wasn't. He felt safe to date her because deep down he knew that since they had different religious beliefs that he wouldn't marry her anyway. He never told her that because he really liked her and he didn't want to break up with her, not just yet. I am not saying this is your case but is worth exploring. Religion could be a huge issue that is keeping him from moving forward. It is better to be upfront with him about this than wait another year to find out that he was thinking about marrying within his religion all along and didn't have the guts to tell you. Protect yourself.

 

[Mara]

my thought about him telling you about this rumor is... 'another excuse' as to why he can't propose soon. oh i'm so stressed. aka don't expect much out of me for a while. because i'm so stressed.

it's interesting...i was telling greg a while back about some of the LIW's and how some of them have been with their bf's for many years and they are still hoping. his take on it was...these men are not going to get married to these gals. he said...well if they wanted to, they would have already. talk about simplistic male view. i of course feebly argued for the female side...aka there could be issues, reasons to wait, etc...but inside i kind of felt the same way. you don't go 5 or 7 years in a relationship and not have some progress...unless you just allowed the time to get away from you and now you are just stuck. why would a man who has been in a relationship for 5 years or whatever suddenly wake up one morning and want to get married? it COULD happen of course, and i think it does sometimes...but rarely.

anyway so sometimes now when i read these stories...i think of my husband's simplistic view. if he wanted to, he would. period. especially after everything you two have been through, what you have given up to be with him. that should be respected, not taken advantage of. it kills me to see how open some of the LIW's are about 'take my heart' and these men...they just can't get it together. it's really unfortunate.

 

[always.waiting]

i have been following your story, and I,too, don''t understand why you are so timid in asking your bf what his response is to your email. I think you sent it last week and have had dozens of conversations where it goes unaddressed. His mentioning changes in his job sounds like an excuse. Everyone has job stresses, family stresses, apt issues, there are countless ways to avoid things. It''s your life, it''s up to you to just ask. I''m sorry, but it seems as if you''re being given the runaround. I would also explore the religious issue too. Maybe he''s not religious, but if his family is, that''s a big factor. I think looking at rings and dreaming is another example that you are in a little bit of a fantasy world and really need to dig deep and explore the more pressing issues, the ones that count.

 

[Becky P]

In all of this, I am trying to remind myself that the only things I have control over are my own actions/re-actions. When I was a teacher a few years ago, I constantly reminded my students that they had a choice. So, now I need to remind myself of that. I have a choice over what I do. I can choose to stay, or choose to go, but either way, it is my decision what I do. For now, I choose to stay. I laid it out very cleary in my letter that he had until March 2007. Knowing him and the way that he processes things, I think this is fair. Not only to him, but to me as well. I simply cannot choose to walk away from this relationship without knowing that I gave it a fair shot.

Now, in the meantime, I need to make the choice to spend more time making friends here in Pittsburgh. I need to choose to be less available to him so that I can spend more time on myself. And, I choose to begin creating a "plan B" for myself so that if I do end up choosing to walk away I''ll be ready. Last night, I made a budget for what I would need to have in order to move (Uhaul, gas, first/last month''s rent, etc.) Luckily, the job I have now I can do anywhere in the US - that''s part of why I ended up moving here instead of the other way around. So, come March if I do end up needing to walk away and cut my losses, all I really have to do is take vacation for a week, pack up, and go. My lease is over at the end of December, and there''s a clause in the contract that says it goes month to month after that until one party gives the other a 30 day notice. So, now I''m working on saving money to make sure I have enough to move if I need to - and I guess if I don''t end up moving, that money could always be used for a wedding fund

- the eternal optimist here... either way, though, I''ll have options.

 

[~*Alexis*~]

OK I am a blunt person, so dont get mad.

Let him go. He is not respecting you. He is not respecting your wants/needs/desires. Your morals and your values.

 

[phoenixgirl]

Does this remind anyone else of the relationship Meg Ryan has for several years in When Harry Met Sally? And then they broke up and the guy went out and married a girl after a very short courtship? Now a movie is a movie, of course, but it does seem to be a trend with *some* men who seem to have nothing stopping them from getting married and yet who can't commit to a woman they've dated forever. And then they break up, and along comes "the one," and bam they get married within a year.

[Disclaimer: am home sick from work and mind is foggy is from cold medicine, so my posts have been a bit all over the place recently]. When I was young, someone gave me what I thought was really great advice. She said that getting married is just about being ready for the commitment and finding someone compatible who is also ready for the commitment. She believed there were many people that you could wind up with out there, and that marriage was a choice to make a family with one of them. I'm a pretty straightforward person, so I've always thought that was good advice. However . . .

This woman married my youth group leader who was, let's face it, a rather effeminate man. In the context of this being a religious setting and my only being 17, I never really let it sink in, but if I met him on the street I would be shocked to hear that he was heterosexual. Apparently, he knew he wasn't either because right before his wedding, he confided in one of the guys in my class that he was really attracted to men (ya know, because when you need a confidant, there's nobody better than one of the teenagers placed in your care by his parents). So anyway, they got married and had 3 children, and 8 years later he was accused and convicted of molesting 10 boys over a decade. And get this . . . he and his wife stayed together and are together to this day!

I share this anecdote because I figure that the validity of the person's advice should at least be questioned . . . look how her following her own advice turned out. Obviously this not-so-secretly gay molester is not "the one" for her, but here she is stuck in this situation until one of them can't stand living a lie anymore and leaves. He even pled guilty. How do you explain that away? How do you live with that, let alone forgive it? And why don't you want a real life for yourself? It's a real tragedy.

So since her advice is suspect, does that mean there is only person out there for us? I really don't believe that, but I also don't think you decide you want to get married and go out and pick a person who seems nice and decide to love him or her. And since I don't believe there is only one person with whom we can be happy, I also don't see the point in sticking with someone who doesn't want what you want. (And ta da . . . that is how I related my circuitous story back to the topic at hand.)

P.S. I hope I didn't offend anyone by my story about the molester. I am not suggesting that he became a molester because he is presumably gay. This is all the more reason why I wish gay relationships were accepted and legalized, so that people like him could live a life of satisfaction with a healthy relationship, rather than harming innocent boys and trapping his wife in a sham of a marriage. And no, I am not saying that he is a molester BECAUSE gay relationships are not fully accepted. I just wanted to make it clear that I am not making a political statement about it one way or another. My husband and I will be making a political statement, however, when we attend a party in a few weeks to encourage people to vote "no" to our state's proposed marriage amendment which would prevent legislators from ever changing the laws to recognize any aspect of gay unions. But that, of course, is another story for another day.

 

[kasmom]

Becky, even if he propose, you still don''t know if they will ever be a wedding. Do yourself a favor and stop putting wedding ideas in your head right now! I think you''re beyond optimistic, you are getting unhealthy toward this relationship.

1) Met the right guy is HARD.
2) After you met the right guy, getting engage is EASY.
3) Marriage is the HARDEST part.

You seem to think the hardest part was get him to propose and marry you. Marriage is much much much more complicated. With a marriage starting off like you 2 it would be hard to stand by your man through poorer or sickness, don''t you think?

 

[Mara]

PG i agree with you about timing...it''s like in that sex and the city episode about the guy''s cab light being on when he is ''ready''.

here is something i have always thought...after my 3-4 year relationship where in my heart i knew he was not the one but i was hoping that i could make him into the one OR that one day i would just wake up and he''d be the one. he treated me great, he loved me, i loved him, but i did not see myself marrying him and growing old with him. i knew this from day 1. but i was hoping it would change, as we had great fun, got along well, etc.

this is a relationship where i was the guy and he was the girl.... he loved me, would have probably wanted to marry me, we talked about it. but i panicked inside every time i thought about it. i wasn''t ready, he wasn''t the one. no matter how many days i tried to talk myself into it..it wasn''t right. finally we broke it off (really me) and i was alone, happily alone..and living independently and doing whatever i wanted. for 6 months. then i met greg. but i wasn''t really ready to be with anyone serious. well go figure. 2 years later i''m happily engaged.

greg was the right one for me...my cab light was slowly going on for the ''right guy'' and i didn''t even really know it. but my mind was fairly open and the timing was just right and we just clicked. a year later my ex also got engaged. so we ended up with the right people for us! he now has a 3 year old boy with his new wife.

anyway, this is why mentally for me when i hear some of these stories where it sounds like typically one person is on the fence and the other really wants it..and that goes on for a while, i am reminded of my own experience where i KNEW in my heart that i would never marry this man...but i kept hoping that would change, and one day he''d be the right one because, and this is important, i WANTED him to be the right person for me, but he just WAS NOT. you cannot hope it into reality.

i do believe there are a few ''right people'' out there for you at the ''right time'' in your life. the right time for one person and another may not mesh, but the next person you meet may be the right person and right time. i don''t believe in one person for everyone. it''s about the right person and right time for both.

 

[always.waiting]

i feel like there''s a big piece missing from the equation..your bf''s opinion! I thought you sent him a very clear email outling your timeline and asking for his response and he gave none? And still hasn''t. In the meantime you went to look at wedding rings and now have decided to give him a very generous timeline based on nothing other than conversations with yourself. I think your timeline is totally fine, and it seems to feel right for you, but I just don''t understand why you are moving forward with all this stuff when your bf hasn''t said a word? Do you really know him? Don''t you think you need to ask him some probing questions before coming to a conclusion ("optimistic" or otherwise) on your own? It kinda seems you say more here than you do to your own bf. Honestly I have my own relationship issues (!), but one thing I have learned is the closer you are to marriage, the more you can feel it. Because you really start to understand the other person on a deep level and feel like one being. I guess to me it''s more about really building a foundation as a couple than the ring or sunset proposals. It just seems you guys have a long way to go but you are seeing only what you want to see. Sorry, I hope you talk to him soon and get clarity, good or bad!!!

 

[Ellen]

Mara, Greg said exactly what I was thinking, but didn''t really have the heart to post. But since it''s out there, AND it''s from a guys view, I absolutely agree.


If he wanted to, he would.

 

[Becky P]

Hey ladies, I apologize as I have not read the last few responses, but I will do that soon here. But, I wanted to tell ya''ll that I have a chance to redeam myself here. BF just called. He''s really, super worried about this potential job loss, and he has asked to have dinner to talk about everything. Although his position is probably going to be eliminated, there is an available position right now in North Carolina. So, if he wanted to transfer from Pittsburgh to North Carolina, he could. I am self-employed, so I can work from anywhere in the US. We talked briefly about the possibility of North Carolina a few weeks ago, but hadn''t really considered it because we''d be moving for no apparent reason. Now, there would be a legitimate reason to move. I know that from what I''ve said about the whole proposal thing ya''ll have assumptions about my relationship, and that''s to be expected. But, we really do have a loving, committed relationship. I do think my head is a little in the clouds, but this conversation tomorrow night could be just the ticket to really getting down to the issues that we''ve been needing to discuss. He wants to talk about whether or not we (his word) would be interested in moving to NC. He sees it as a decision that we would both make together. Then, he made a comment that both sets of parents would freak out if we moved in together. And, I told him that mine might be okay with it b/c my younger brother is living with his girlfriend AT her parent''s house, WITH the grandparents living there too!! I think his parents would have a harder time with it than mine. Then, I jokingly said, well, we could always fly to Vegas for the weekend, and then we wouldn''t have to worry about what they thought.. he chuckled. Anyway, since I''m in the middle of the workday here, of course my work phone rang and we just left it that we''d talk about everything tomorrow night at dinner. I feel like I don''t want to move to NC unless there''s a real, solid committment on the table (i.e. proposal, or at least discussion of what the timeline is for a proposal to take place). But, tomorrow could be my chance to really talk about everything and lay it out on the table - I''m nervous.... but excited!

 

[Butterflies]

Becky, this is the perfect opportunity to find out what his true intentions are. Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[Becky P]

I know Butterflies! He is actually wanting to talk about future-related things, so I''ve got to use this discussion to my advantage. Here''s what my mom said I need to do:
- SHUT up and LISTEN to what he says - I don''t need to be doing a lot of talking at first
- I need to "milk him like a cow" and get as much info out of him as possible
- Ask "what" questions as opposed to "why" questions - "why" questions put people on the defensive
- Repeat back or "mirror" back what he''s saying to ensure that I''m not mis-interpreting things that he''s saying
- After he shares what he''s thinking, then I can ask questions, get more clarification, and finally, near the end, share my thoughts

Any other suggestions? This could be the turning point where I really find out what he''s thinking... always.waiting, you''re right, the one thing missing is his opinion

 

[bee*]

Good luck with tomorrow Becky. Do not let him change the subject when you are trying to talk to him about the future, get solid answers from him and I wouldnt consider moving in with him in NC if you dont get a solid arrangement about your future. I hope that it goes well for you and no matter which way it goes remember that there are men out there who would want to marry you without having to go through all this turmoil. I dont think that you should show him engagement rings until he actually decides and is ready to get married as I think that showing him before then could send him running the opposite direction.

As for gregs answer earlier, I agree with him that if they want to do it,they will. In terms of going out with someone for years, as we''ve dated since we were 17,its only in the last 9 mths that we''ve actually started talking about it. If I were older when I started going out with him I dont think I could go out with someone that long,when we both had jobs and enough money to do it, and he was still giving me excuses.

If you are giving him until March 2007,then I would tell him tomorrow to make sure that he knows it and then I would leave it and do your best not to bring it up again. Its up to him then to make up his mind and either do it by then or lose you. Unfortunately you cant make up his mind for him so you just have to give him time

 

[mrssalvo]

Becky,
it sounds like tomorrow night you are going to have the perfect opportunity to really find out where''s he''s at and where you guys are heading. there is no way I''d follow him to another city again without a pending engagement. If he wants you there you can go along as a fiance/wife otherwise you might try out the long distance thing for a while and see how that works. Good luck, I really hope all of the possible changes in his life will cause him to really seek his heart and decide he really does want to be with you forever and not waste another minute trying to decide if he''s ready. I agree with your mom to let him talk but don''t let him off the hook this time. Get some real concrete answers from him and be honest that you don''t want to pressure him but if he really doesn''t see marriage as coming soon that this might not be the relationship for you. Good luck.

 

[Cailet]

Date: 10/9/2006 4:37:57 PM
Author: Becky P


I know Butterflies! He is actually wanting to talk about future-related things, so I''ve got to use this discussion to my advantage. Here''s what my mom said I need to do:
- SHUT up and LISTEN to what he says - I don''t need to be doing a lot of talking at first
- I need to ''milk him like a cow'' and get as much info out of him as possible
- Ask ''what'' questions as opposed to ''why'' questions - ''why'' questions put people on the defensive
- Repeat back or ''mirror'' back what he''s saying to ensure that I''m not mis-interpreting things that he''s saying
- After he shares what he''s thinking, then I can ask questions, get more clarification, and finally, near the end, share my thoughts

Any other suggestions? This could be the turning point where I really find out what he''s thinking... always.waiting, you''re right, the one thing missing is his opinion

ok - I would say -- take tonight and tomorrow and figure out what YOU want to have happen as a result of tomorrow night''s dinner discussion. What do you want to have happen if your bf decides to move?
If you have to write a list with WHAT and WHY to keep it all in your mind do so! Once you get all the info from bf on what he is thinking -- look over your list. Make sure you discuss it -- if you aren''t getting a SOLID - FIRM response on your list of wants (and no offense but "at least discussion of what the timeline is for a proposal to take place" does not seem very firm -- unless it involves "let''s go to the jewelry store and look at rings on X date" or "i want us to get married by X date") then I would bring up the points that haven''t been resolved and ask for resolution.


good luck and keep us posted!! maybe you will have some great news to post after dinner tomorrow!!