Absolutely NO marriage momentum

[Rosebud8506]

RE the not ready to respond comment: I did the same thing, and I would get so frustrated with trying to sit him down and ask him why out of our whole huge group of friends who was already either engaged and/or married, why after 3 1/2 years we were not "committed". He turned blank white on his face and of course blew it off - yes that made me angry!! In fact, the Friday before we got engaged, I remember complaining to all my married girlfriends, that I was giving him until the end of the year to figure it out, otherwise I was going to walk. Well, we got engaged that Sunday. He admitted to me that everyone asking him only made him delay it even further. He said the turning point was when I was going to move in with a girlfriend and start paying rent - his response to that was "You are ruining everything if you go and move in with your friend - why are you making me tell you this!!?" . I knew I had semi - spoiled his plans - and I felt bad.

My point is, pushing and pushing more will only upset yourself - my husband (at the time when we were bf/gf) also said the same thing, lfor example, talk about us in the future tense as a married couple. The whole time I''m thinking "um helloooo??? don''t you get it???" But now when I look back, I see why there were reasons why he held off.

I can totaly relate that you are frustrated - believe me!! As much as you want a concrete answer/response, I think now, you''ve sent him the letter, gave him some time to absorb how you feel, brought it up again at dinner - just now, let him have the ball in his court for at least a little while, and by all means - stick to your timeline, just don''t reiterate it - he knows how you feel - you''ve expressed it, and you''ve done a great job.

 

[Becky P]

Ladies - thank you all for your thoughts! I really appreciate all the different opinions and perspectives.

Rosebud - are you saying that he DOES recommend just talking about marriage in the future tense, or he DOES NOT recommend talking about it in the future tense? I was a little unclear on that...

 

[Rosebud8506]

Becky - yes, I meant he would talk about us in the future tense as a married couple. When he began speaking of "our kids, and when we are old" - then I knew he was for real about settling down, just didn''t know when. I then backed off and never brought it up to him. Sorry if that was unclear

 

[Becky P]

So then, once he did start to talk about those things, how long did it end up taking? Thanks for the clarification.

 

[firebirdgold]

I don''t like the fact that you had to bring the email up to get a response. And I''m not overly fond of the phrase "you''re the only one I''ve ever seen myself marrying". Somehow that just doesn''t quite translate to "I want to marry you" for me. The mushy stuff and talking about how your futures are together is promising though.

I think we need a guy to translate his response!

Oh, and don''t bring it up every month. Guys really don''t react well to pressure. (think mules). Even my fi joked later that everytime I brought it up he pushed back the date by another month. That was not a conversation that ended well.

 

[Rosebud8506]

Literally within 6 months - he bought the ring in January - and planned to give it to me on our planned trip weekend in New Orleans 4 months later at the end of May. He never actually did propose to me in New Orleans, however. He didn''t feel the time was right (?!) We had a few goofy waitors the few times we went out to really, really nice fancy dinners - so he nixed the idea altogether and brought the ring down there and back. In fact, he had asked my Dad''s permission before we left for our trip, so that when we came home, my Dad congratulated me!! I was like "for what???". LOL. He ended up doing it the weekend after we got back from that trip - on the sand dunes by the beach back home.

I think he thought it was cute the way he was tormenting me

- ( I didnt at all!!) but he''s that kind of a person, he wanted me to think the complete opposite of what he had planned...

 

[Becky P]

Well, then, I think I may have some hope then. He does talk about future-related things, kids, where we''ll live, etc. He''ll basically talk about everything future-related except marriage. We''ve discussed how many children we want to have, where we see ourselves living, finances, how we''ll pay for our kid''s college, etc..

I''ve been waiting a little bit to see how other''s reacted to what he said last night because although I was happy about what he said, I was also disappointed a bit. But, I feel like I got what I needed last night. I know he received the email. I know he''s taking his time and really thinking about things. And, I know he sees our future together. So, that''s the good part. The bad part is that he''s not talking to me about what he''s thinking, which is frustrating. And, he''s still vague about how long he sees it taking for our futures to come together. But... that''s exactly what I asked him to think about over the next 6 months. So, I guess now I''ve just gotta be patient and give him some time... which is the hardest part - I am not patient at all, and he knows it lol

 

[janinegirly]

well i think things look different in hindsight. If you were silent and your bf proposes with no pressure, then it seems like this is the best approach. The point is, a girl doesn''t know beforehand if her bf is the kind who''ll surprise her out of the blue with no pressure, or is the kind who needs to be told flat out what expectations are at which point he steps up (or not). So we have to find the balance of protecting ourselves (and bringing up talks) and not pushing our bf''s the other way. I do think it''s very important to lay everything on the table, especially after 4 yrs, so that you can make a decision based on all the facts. All the books, analysis won''t really change that...you guys have been together so long and probably know each other inside out, no games/strategies will change things. But you do have to lay out your hopes /expectations (as you have) and he has to respond within a reasonable amout of time, to his best ability, so that you can know where each of you stands right now.
I think it''s interesting to note that the poll (of how long couples have been together) spikes at 2-3 yrs (the average for when people are proposed to probably) and then shoots up again at 7+ years. Meaning it''s a good idea to see where with your bf now (at 4yr mark) so that it doesn''t drag out into a long term holding period. If you speak too soon and ruin some surprise, he''ll say something that makes you realize that, then you can back off completely--but it just doesn''t seem like you have that yet and he is taking his sweet time. JMHO.

 

[jaz464]

It sounds to me like he knows just what to say to get you to lay off for a bit. Getting all mushy and making you feel lovey dovey makes you think he wants to marry you, but in reality that may not be the case.

 

[Butterflies]

I just wanted to ask you, when you mentioned that he took 10 months to make a decision regarding you moving to where he is, who''s idea was it? Did he ask you to or did you told him that was what you wanted to do and it took him 10 months to agree?

He sounds like he cares about you (he cooks for you, etc.) but he may not be ready to get married just yet. That doesn''t mean that he will never be ready, but the question is, what if he comes back in 6 months and says that he is still not ready or that he wants 2 more years. It all depends on what you are willing to accept. It is up to you. If you don''t like what he has to say you have the power to decide what you will do then. Maybe it will be a good idea to start formulating a "Plan B" just in case, things that you would like to do: travel, move to another city, etc. I think we all need to have a "Plan B". I hope it all works out. Keep us posted.

 

[Mara]

i agree with jazmine. sounds like he knows all the right things to say to get you to forget the real issue at hand. and you did forget it last nite after he got all mushy right?

there is a ton of things we could speculate on. but none of us really know your man or your relationship. what worked for me or what worked for rosebud or someone else, may not be what works for you. men are not all the same.

i also don't agree that if he talks about the future everything then it means he wants to marry you. i know guys who love talking about the future, because that's all it is. TALK. talk is cheap. i wanna see some action! the fact that you say that he talks about everything future related but marriage, to me that speaks volumes right there!! why can't he speak about marriage but he can talk about other things?

again, this is speculation, and you know him better than us. when i used to bring up the future to greg he'd do a 'faux' freak out and be like 'woah kids!?' but the smirk on his face told me he was kidding. i just rolled my eyes at his typical 'boy' response. in fact we are now married for three years, and he STILL says that about kids. 'woaah kids?'. he says he's too young for kids. but i knew what was in his HEART. i knew that he had told me that he had dreamed about having someone like me in his life...my husband who is really not the mushy type at all. to say those words meant something for him. i knew that we had broken up and been miserable without each other and gotten back together. i knew that he loved me. and i knew he was considering marrying me even after living with a gal for 5 years who yes, tried to get him to commit to her in every way possible and all he thought was 'get me out of here!' i was the 'right girl' for him. i trusted him to not break my heart. so i do understand it's hard for us strangers to speculate on what his words mean, how he is coming off...because if i had come on a board like this and said well my bf of 2 years is kind of waffling about marriage, i gave him a timeline but he still hems and haws on getting married. when inside he was thinking about it but he didn't want to tip his hand kinda thing. so yes, speculation on this board is hard.

but YOU know him...or you should. and i sense you are still unclear about the relationship...even knowing him, and that is what bothers me. the uncertainty you have even though you have done so much for this relationship. i think it's odd he wouldn't agree to any sort of timeline. at least while greg was a bit of a hemmer way back when, he said, yes 6 months sounds reasonable, i'm on board with that. yet your man was was waffling and then when you pushed for the 6 months timeline, he was like 'oh but you are the one i'd marry if i got married!'. what does that mean? and i also don't like how you had to bring it up and was vague about it. and then distracted you rather than respecting the conversation. he has the control here. it's up to you whether or not that is okay with you.

the unfortunate thing is at this point, because after he got all mushy, you let it go, he thinks he's off the hook for some time now. if you bring it up again soon you look like a nag. last nite was really the chance you had to lay it all out...but you let yourself get distracted. so tough call now. are you just going to wait? how long?

 

[ljmorgan]

I really just don''t get all of that... am I the only one who finds this guy''s reactions totally disrespectful and in a sense... mean? She pours her heart out in a letter, and he''s not ''ready'' to discuss that. That''s really crappy. Becky, I don''t think it''s fair that you have to sit around and wait for him to be ''ready'' to think about marriage and a future... and vague references to ''you''re the one for me'' absolutely do not cut it. You''re hurting, and you want reassurance -- why is that too much to ask for? It is NOT too much to ask for. I would not go into a marriage with someone who cannot even fulfull my basic emotional needs by discussing extremely important issues. It''s absolutely ridiculous. Becky, I''m sorry that he is being this way. Why are you dying to marry someone that can''t even talk about marriage? I don''t mean to sound accusatory, it just sounds like he is totally immature and self-centered to ignore your needs totally. I can''t believe he never even bothered to bring up your letter because "he wasn''t ready." Marriage is about responsibility and accountability -- you can''t just choose to ignore big issues because they make you uncomfortable. That is a sure recipe for disaster...

 

[ephemery1]

Date: 10/6/2006 3:23:11 PM
Author: *Lindsey*
I really just don't get all of that... am I the only one who finds this guy's reactions totally disrespectful and in a sense... mean? She pours her heart out in a letter, and he's not 'ready' to discuss that. That's really crappy. Becky, I don't think it's fair that you have to sit around and wait for him to be 'ready' to think about marriage and a future... and vague references to 'you're the one for me' absolutely do not cut it. You're hurting, and you want reassurance -- why is that too much to ask for? It is NOT too much to ask for. I would not go into a marriage with someone who cannot even fulfull my basic emotional needs by discussing extremely important issues. It's absolutely ridiculous. Becky, I'm sorry that he is being this way. Why are you dying to marry someone that can't even talk about marriage? I don't mean to sound accusatory, it just sounds like he is totally immature and self-centered to ignore your needs totally. I can't believe he never even bothered to bring up your letter because 'he wasn't ready.' Marriage is about responsibility and accountability -- you can't just choose to ignore big issues because they make you uncomfortable. That is a sure recipe for disaster...

I know this is a tough issue, and every guy is different... but I am really inclined to agree with Lindsey. This arrangement is NOT fair to you, Becky. You are ready to marry this guy. You have thought about it, agonized over it, tried to bring it up countless times in countless ways to let him know how it is affecting you... and what does he do each time? Changes the subject. Are there a million different reasons why he might feel hesitant or afraid to talk about it? Yes. Should his respect for you and your needs outweigh those fears? YES. And right now, it doesn't.

I'm not saying he should pop a ring on your finger tomorrow. I'm saying he needs to suck it up and recognize that this is important to you... and when something is important to somebody that you love, you WANT to deal with it... you don't want to ignore their pain and pretend it doesn't exist. That's just childish, selfish and cruel.

I think you absolutely did a good thing in writing that letter, and then asking him about it... but I agree that you shouldn't have HAD to ask about. You shouldn't have had to ask about things after that other 2-week deadline, either. So far you have been putting all the effort in... you have been making all the compromises... you have initiated everything.... but what exactly has he done? Spout off a few comments how much he loves you. Well then SHOW it, buddy.

There's a part in the movie The Last Kiss, where Zach Braff's character has messed up things with his fiancee, and is talking with his future father-in-law about how much he loves her.... and the FFIL says "What you feel only matters to you. It's what you do to the people you love. That's what matters. That's the only thing that counts." /www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/5.gif[/img]

 

[Rosebud8506]

Date: 10/6/2006 2:09:47 PM
Author: Butterflies
I just wanted to ask you, when you mentioned that he took 10 months to make a decision regarding you moving to where he is, who''s idea was it? Did he ask you to or did you told him that was what you wanted to do and it took him 10 months to agree?

He sounds like he cares about you (he cooks for you, etc.) but he may not be ready to get married just yet. That doesn''t mean that he will never be ready, but the question is, what if he comes back in 6 months and says that he is still not ready or that he wants 2 more years. It all depends on what you are willing to accept. It is up to you. If you don''t like what he has to say you have the power to decide what you will do then. Maybe it will be a good idea to start formulating a ''Plan B'' just in case, things that you would like to do: travel, move to another city, etc. I think we all need to have a ''Plan B''. I hope it all works out. Keep us posted.

I agree with what Butterflies said. It all depends on what you are willing to accept. If in 6 months he then says he is still not ready, I''d see that as a sign that "plan B" is your other option. But, true, we are all giving you advice and our opinions from both ends, but you are the only one who knows him. Is he shy? Guys don''t like to talk about feelings - they just don''t... I trully think him saying he was not ready to respond - means exactly that. I don''t think he is intentionally trying to ditch out on discussing how he feels about you and the relationship. But then again, you know him better than us

 

[Becky P]

hmmm... so many thoughts running through my head, not even sure where to start. All of the perspectives have been really great. The hard part is that I agree with parts of all of them. Do I think that he should be giving me more of an answer at this point? yes. Do I think that he''s really thinking about things? yes. Do I think he''s planning something right now? No, I''m nearly 100% sure of this. I know him to well. He''s not planning anything.

I honestly think it''s going to take loosing me for him to realize that he wants to marry me. I know he does want to marry me. I can see it in his eyes, I can tell by his actions and the way he treats me day in and day out. I can tell that subconsciously he knows I''m the one, but his conscious mind hasn''t realized that yet - if that makes sense? In other words, he knows, but he doens''t KNOW. And, as a guy, if he isn''t prompted to think about such things, then he never will. So, I feel in essence what I am doing is prompting him to get the conscious part of him brain involved in this. What I''m scared of is if/when I ever do have to walk away. I know that I am strong enough to stick behind my decision and walk away from this relationship at the end of March 2007 if things are not moving forward. But, what I predict will happen is that sometime after I walk away (a week, a month, a year), he''ll come groveling back. But, if/when I do have to walk away, I know in my heart that it will be for good. If I get to the point where I make the decision to leave, then I will not be coming back, no matter what. So, I think it''ll take a break-up to get him to come to his senses, and if I do break up with him, it''ll already be to late. What I''m trying to do here is avoid that. I do love him. He is a truly amazing man. Unfortunately, due to the nature of this forum, ya''ll have only heard the frustrations of not being able to talk about marriage.

janinegirly, I agree that things do look different in hindsight. I also noticed the trend on the "how long have you been together" graphs. The wierd part for us is that we dated long distance for so long and only saw each other a couple times a year (usually 6-8 times a year). I''ve been living in Pittsburgh for 9 and a half months now. So, even though we''re nearing the 4 year mark of dating, it''s much different than a couple who''s been living in the same city or even apartment. It feels like we''re nearing the end of about the 2 year mark of the relationship...

jazmine - YES! You are right! He does know just what to say to get me to lay off for a bit - next time, I''ll have to be hyper aware of that because this is the third serious conversation we''ve had about this recently, and each and every time, that''s how he was able to get the conversation ended

Butterflies - The discussion about moving was mutual. It started as, we need to be in the same city. Then, due to the differences in our jobs and the fact that I''m self-employed and can work from anywhere, it became a when am I moving to Pittsburgh sort of thing. We talked back and forth about how things would be, what it would be like, he was worried he''d loose his freedom and the ability to go have fun with his guy friends,etc, etc. I continued to re-assure him that his life would not end if I moved here and so on... In Oct. 2005, he called one night after being out drinking, and left this really long message begging me to come to Pittsburgh, he missed me, he didn''t wanna live another day without me. I called the next day, after he''d had time to sober up, and was like, are you serious? Do you really want me there? Or was that just a drunken call you wish you could take back? He said, yes, he was serious. So, we started talking about it, and at the time, I had a contract that went until May 2006. I was like, can I really break this contract? I''ll feel guilty, etc. So, we decided to wait, then a week or two later, it was like, no, we really wanna be in the same city to see if this will work. A few more days later, we were talking and he asked what I wanted to do while I was out in Pittsburgh over Thanksgiving, and I said, look for an apartment? He was like, ok, cool, and that was the end of that. So, I guess there was a lot of time spent discussing things beforehand, and then when we really got down to it to make the decision it took about 3 weeks.

As for a Plan ''B'', I am working on that, but am still very unsure at this point.. it is something that I''m giving thought to, though. My mom also mentioned, but, what if, at the end of the 6 month timeframe, he says he''s still not ready and it''s gonna be another 6 months or a year or whatever, what would you do then? And, I''m really not sure... I''m still mulling that one over.

Neither of us have ever been good at talking about feelings. I''m not comfortable with it either, so I think that makes the conversations even tougher because I don''t really like having them, but yet I feel like, at this point, I need to. Well, this is long enough, I''m sure I''ll have more to write later, but my thoughts are still totally swirling. It''s like I can''t pinpoint what''s going on, so I just keep hypothesizing and assuming, but we all know what assuming does, now don''t we... Thanks again for all the feedback!

 

[firebirdgold]

 

[kasmom]

Becky, I''ve been following your thread because my best friend is in the same boat as you. I usually don''t post but the more I read the more I think your bf is not a good catch (sorry if I offended you). This guy is clearly all talk and no action. I find him disrespecful and irresponsible. Next time when he have one of those FUTURE talk again, remind him it is PAST, PRESENT, FUTURE not the other way around. He don''t need anymore prompting, he is more than clear of your desire by now. From the story of you moving for him, you pretty much let him wear the pant in the relationship. You shouldn''t always be the ONE to convince him to take the next step. For you to moved to another state for him and he''s worried about his freedom but as soon as he gave you the OK, you jump on it. And now you have to put out all these strategies for him to propose. This is a recipe for disaster! After he propose then what? Will you have to go through the nagging and prompting all over again for him to set a date? Remember, people break their engagement all the time. My advice to you is, love and respect yourself first then your bf will have no choice but do the same. You kept saying that he wants to marry you and even if you do break up he''ll beg you back. I think you are setting yourself up for a big fall here. I''m not saying that is what gonna happen but don''t put all your eggs in one basket. I think from now till March, distance yourself from him, go out with friends, find a hobby to distract you from thinking too much. He will have space and time to miss you and figure out his life. You on the other hand will have a well deserve break from all the heartache. Sometimes to let go is to gain. Again, sorry if you think I''m harsh, I have nothing but good intentions toward you.

 

[ladykemma]

becky - it's not supposed to be this way. it's supposed to "flow" and feel content and happy.

i went back and reread your first post. then i read the followup. he is actually being very clear. he's not ready.

ball's in your court. what is talented, smart, educated becky going to do with her wonderful life?

you have bought yourself six months to grieve, see reality, make decisions, plans, get your stuff quietly out of his house. your path will become clear.

edited to add: see reality

 

[diamondglee]

I''ve been in his shoes....and I said just about ANYTHING to avoid anther one of THOSE talks. There is a difference between not wanting to break up with someone and wanting to marry them. I''ve had a lot of good relationships where I didnt want to break up, but I didnt want to get married to THEM.

He is very worried about his own life...not wanting to lose his freedom, wanting to be able to continue to go out and act like a single man....but no where did he talk about what he stood to gain. It sounds like he has the perfect relationship...you dont live together, he retains his single life, no comittments, no ties or promises...but gets the benefits of a gf.

I think his message is pretty clear. You can make excuses...but it is what is is, and I agree with all the other posters. He is disrespectful of you and your wants and needs.

 

[galeteia]

Amen to the other posters, especially ladykemma, who always sums it up in a single sentence...

" it's not supposed to be this way. it's supposed to "flow" and feel content and happy."

If you think he's really is 'telling you with his eyes' that he does want to marry you, but it will take losing you to do it, give him the kick in the pants NOW.



Don't let him hit the SNOOZE BUTTON on the issue for another 6 months.

 

[musey]

Date: 10/7/2006 1:51:53 AM
Author: Galateia
Amen to the other posters, especially ladykemma, who always sums it up in a single sentence...


'' it''s not supposed to be this way. it''s supposed to ''flow'' and feel content and happy.''

I don''t have the life experience to make judgements on your situation like the other posters, but I do take issue with this one statement... aren''t all the LIWs here because it''s not "flowing" or feeling "content"? If it were, we would all be content flowing along with our men and not in the "waiting" category. We would all love to not have to throw around hints (or, when necessary, ultimatums), and some women haven''t had to... but many more have been brought to that point, and still went on to have successful marriages. (At least from what I can tell from former LIWs and the women in my own life)

I don''t mean this to be an argument against all the other posters in any way since, like I said, I am in no position to form an opinion on your relationship. But I really don''t think it''s fair to say that any relationship is doomed because it''s not "flowing," because if that''s the case, pretty much all us LIWs are screwed.


P.S. Reading through everyone''s posts gives me the impression that everyone''s just ready for you to throw in the towel, but IMHO, no one can (or should) tell you what to do with full conviction because they''re only getting this little piece of it. Like you said, the PS community is only seeing the negative side since that''s what you came here for help with... that''s only a slice of your relationship. Don''t forget that, and don''t let the negative feedback override your own intuition in this situation!!

 

[ladykemma]

Date: 10/7/2006 3:23:10 AM
Author: musey

Date: 10/7/2006 1:51:53 AM
Author: Galateia
Amen to the other posters, especially ladykemma, who always sums it up in a single sentence...


' it's not supposed to be this way. it's supposed to 'flow' and feel content and happy.'

I don't have the life experience to make judgements on your situation like the other posters, but I do take issue with this one statement... aren't all the LIWs here because it's not 'flowing' or feeling 'content'? If it were, we would all be content flowing along with our men and not in the 'waiting' category. We would all love to not have to throw around hints (or, when necessary, ultimatums), and some women haven't had to... but many more have been brought to that point, and still went on to have successful marriages. (At least from what I can tell from former LIWs and the women in my own life)

I don't mean this to be an argument against all the other posters in any way since, like I said, I am in no position to form an opinion on your relationship. But I really don't think it's fair to say that any relationship is doomed because it's not 'flowing,' because if that's the case, pretty much all us LIWs are screwed.


P.S. Reading through everyone's posts gives me the impression that everyone's just ready for you to throw in the towel, but IMHO, no one can (or should) tell you what to do with full conviction because they're only getting this little piece of it. Like you said, the PS community is only seeing the negative side since that's what you came here for help with... that's only a slice of your relationship. Don't forget that, and don't let the negative feedback override your own intuition in this situation!!

that's why some of the LIW threads make my stomach hurt. the passivity bothers me . Victim, victim, victim. putting thier wonderful lives on hold til some MAN can make up his GD mind.

 

[Rosebud8506]

Becky, if you need to stir the pot - I would move back home (or to where you lived before you moved to be with him). If you are nearing the 6 month marker and he has not said anything to you in terms of making a serious committment, I would begin the move and all talks of moving - If and then he knows you are really serious about this, he might really understand that he could possibly lose you.

Good luck - I keep checking this to see where you''re at

 

[musey]

that's why some of the LIW threads make my stomach hurt. the passivity bothers me . Victim, victim, victim. putting thier wonderful lives on hold til some MAN can make up his GD mind.

Keep in mind that when the LIWs actually POST on PS, it's because we're at the peak of our frustration on this issue and need to vent to others in a similar position. That skews our posts faaaar into the relationship "danger" zone, even though our relationships themselves are probably doing beautifully other than this one issue that we all share.

In some cases, yes, people are putting too much power into their guy's hands. However, I still don't think a blanket statement about relationships having to be either easy or dead in the water fits the bill. And just because this one aspect of a LIW's "wonderful life" is on hold, doesn't necessarily mean anything else in their life is.

If we all just up and left our guys because they weren't "ready" as soon as we were, there would be a lot more single women spinsters in this world. Many, MANY men need a LOT more time to adjust to the idea of marriage before they feel comfortable--and eventually fall in love with--the idea. My cousin waited for her (now) husband for five years before he started talking marriage, and now, 15 years later, they have one of the most loving, happy marriages I've EVER seen (and he is one of the most loving, happy MEN I've ever seen).

It seems like in most cases men have this aversion, and then there's an "epiphany" moment in which they are forced to realize, hey, this really is what I want. I've seen that happen to the men in my family, maybe they're in the minority, but it certainly doesn't seem like it.

Just my .02

 

[galeteia]

Date: 10/7/2006 11:28:24 AM
Author: musey
In some cases, yes, people are putting too much power into their guy''s hands. However, I still don''t think a blanket statement about relationships having to be either easy or dead in the water fits the bill. And just because this one aspect of a LIW''s ''wonderful life'' is on hold, doesn''t necessarily mean anything else in their life is.

I don''t think it''s a matter of ''easy'' or ''dead in the water''. Like I said before, things should flow, ''even if there are bumps'' along the way. There is a huge difference between ''easy'' and flow. It''s like money; it''s not a matter of having tons of income and absolutely no expenses, it''s having an influx of money that allows the bills to be paid.

So, even if things are not pat and there is no ring on your finger, there is clear and obvious progress being made. There is a big difference, IMO, between Mara''s husband''s agreement to a 6-month timeline and the OP''s BF who seems to have used the 6 month option as an extension to avoid the issue.

Diamondglee''s observation about people not wanting to marry their SO but not wanting to break up either was spot-on. I see this all the time, and I see people getting engaged because of it. Sad.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 10/6/2006 9:06:53 PM
Author: ladykemma

i went back and reread your first post. then i read the followup. he is actually being very clear. he''s not ready.

This is what I see, too. He has repeatedly said that he isn''t ready, and he doesn''t know when he will be. He''s SO not ready that he won''t even *talk* about the subject.

I personally think he''s trying to be upfront and tell you he isn''t ready, and I think you keep looking for any little sign that there is hope.

You have to accept that he isn''t ready, and then decide what that means for you from there. As LK said, "what are you going to do?" You have a choice......you can either decide that you''re ok with staying and waiting for him to be ready, or you can decide that you cannot live with the indefiniteness of the situation and decide to find someone who is ready.

Neither choice is wrong. You need to decide what''s most important to you. If it''s staying with him (regardless of outcome), then stay with him. If it''s getting married and having a family someday, then you should probably consider seeing other people.

If you choose to stay with him, you should accept that he may *never* be ready.....and you need to be okay with that.

Good luck.

 

[Mara]

i know lady kemma...sometimes the LIW threads make me want to throw something at the poster...something soft of course like a plush toy

...and say WAKE UP GIRL!!!! how much harder does it have to be really?? i think there are diff version of 'not flowing'...aka 'something is stuck in the flow' vs 'the flow has a big clog that i can't get past.'

i definitely don't think that anyone is saying 'throw in the towel' here on the entire relationship. but becky herself is feeling some serious doubt and unhappiness over what is going on. her boyfriend will not let her address it. she said herself that she thinks that he won't get the clue until she LEAVES him. i mean is that how it's *supposed* to be?

personally from experience i find that when two people get some distance from each other...many times things become more clear to you both. you either really miss the other person, or you feel like 'wow i can do this on my own'. and it doesn't mean you always have to be on your own. but sometimes these gals are so close to the situation and living together and i think at times it can just make it harder because there's nowhere to GO to get away from the situation.

also sometimes in these posts i just hear such a lack of self-respect from these ladies who are just *waiting* and *waiting*. who DESERVE better than hoping for their man to wake up and smell the engagement ring. and i personally am never advocating 'leave him flat out' kinda thing just because he missed a deadline or whatever, but more along the lines of maybe if you were alone and had some space to think, you could come up with more clear answers on what you (ladies) want out of this relationship and just in general out of life. of course it is hard to think about leaving a relationship, but really how long does one person have to give to a relationship before the red flags are flying with a vengeance? and why do these women have to work so darn hard! i mean really, sure there can be some issues to work through in any relationship but sometimes it's like well why do you really want to fight so hard and push so hard to get him to engagement? if he's THAT recalcitrant...does it really bode well for the future?

of course as i said earlier, its really easy for us to say 'do this' when we are not in the relationship and also it's hard for us to get what it's like to be in any relationship other than our own and to really see what it's like in that relationship. so i think advice is always kind of just hit or miss...but i do think that many PS'ers (typically non LIW's who can be a bit more...open minded? about the whole thing because they are not experiencing it at the same time) can give some great advice on having been there, done that, or just things that they see as a 3rd party totally removed from the situation kinda thing.

 

[Julian]

I don''t know...sometimes I get mad at the guys I hear about. WHY can''t they act like the grown-ups they are and buy the ring? It''s not like everything will suddenly change and shackles on their wrists and legs will appear. Is it a mental thing? They like to keep the door open a crack?

Maybe it''s like how some people without kids will never understand what those with kids go through. I didn''t have to ever deal with this problem, so maybe that''s why it''s so frustrating to hear about these gorgeous, brilliant ladies being forced to wait and wait and wait for their lives to continue. When are these guys going to hustle and have some guts? The best thing in their lives is staring them in the face and some are just taking their own sweet time...putting their women through agony. Grrrrr.

Then again, there are other women who proposed on their own and took it into their hands. I guess there isn''t a cut and dried answer and that is what makes it so frustrating. The guys seem to love, adore and enjoy the company of these ladies. But don''t want to buy a ring. It doesn''t have to be a huge diamond, even a plain band would do! What is the deal????? Is it the fear of marriage? I thought marriage is supposed to make a relationship better!

 

[firebirdgold]

I can''t give very good responses to this kind of issue. My fi told me early on that he wanted to marry me and was looking forward to it. My sister''s husband told her the same thing within a month. So naturally I think that''s how all good relationship should be, even though I know that''s not really true. Of course it''s fustrating to have to wait for boy time to get from I want to marry you to will you marry me, but it''s obviously not nearly as frustrating as waiting for a guy to get from I see you in my future to I want to marry you.

No matter what it seems like it''s a rare thing for a guy under 35 to get to the point as quickly as the woman would like. Wether it''s him waiting for the stars to align for the perfect moment to propose, or him waiting for some sign from god telling him it''s time to settle down and start thinking about marriage.

 

[Julian]

You're right. I think it's boy time! Kinda like dog years.

For every 1 year boys wait, to girls it's like 7?

Some of you are far better women than I. If my guy was hemming and hawing over marriage, I would have been like, "You are obviously not the man for me if you can't see and jump on an amazing thing when you've got it." I want my guy to feel lucky and excited about getting married. Maybe some need "help" to get that way. I can definitely see that since after all, they are boys.

But the bottom line is, some boys who are noncommital can turn into husbands who are kind of like that too. Train those puppies early!

You want your husband to feel LUCKY and SPECIAL for the fact that you accepted his proposal. He should be thanking his lucky stars and strive to always make you happy and fulfill your needs. That's what a good marriage is based on... two people who put the other's needs above their own. Not me looking out for #1 and him looking out for #1. Ya know?


**edited to add**
I really wish you ladies well. It's always so wonderful to see a "Take me off the list" post! Maybe we are like your parents - who never think the guy is good enough or fast enough in proposing! Don't let the posts discourage you. Sometimes it's just tough love and it's not pleasant but it's valuable insight, too. Some of my best friends love me enough to tell it to me straight. They don't sugar coat... they tell me the truth no matter how hard it is to hear sometimes.

Lots of love to you LIWs!!!! I know most of you will have wonderful marriages and pray most won't wait long. Every couple is different and I know no one knows what's going on except the two of you. (((((ring vibes)))))